Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

I decided to try my hand at making a Smash 6 roster:
View attachment 376103
[spoilers= General Ideas Behind the Roster]

• The two main goals when making this roster were 1. make it realistic and 2. make it so people wouldn't view it as a clear downgrade relative to Ultimate.
• I limited myself to 50 veterans, not counting any echo fighters or the Miis (mostly because they're more like a mechanic than conventional fighters at this point).
• When choosing veterans, I prioritized recognizability, fan favourite status inside and outside of Smash, characters that repped their own franchises, unique playstyles, and characters that could be ported from Ultimate with minimal changes (a lot of Ultimate's newcomers returned for this reason).
• I wanted the number of unique newcomers to fall somewhere below what Brawl and Smash for's base game brought while being above what Melee and Ultimate's base game brought. I landed on 14 unique newcomers, which is still a little high side but still within the realm of reason.
• I wanted every newcomer to be an exciting addition that would generally get people excited.

[/spoilers]
[spoilers= Veterans]

• Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Link, Zelda, Samus, Kirby, Fox, Pikachu, Marth, Pit, Shulk, Villager, Inkling, and Olimar don't really need any explanation.
• Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Dr. Mario, and Piranha Plant didn't make the cut in the interest of not filling the roster with Mario characters. I feel pretty bad about cutting Rosalina and Bowser Jr. in particular because they are popular are far as Mario characters go and they have unique playstyles for Smash.
• I considered cutting K. Rool, but he was such a massive request prior to Ultimate, he's relatively popular among the casual crowd, he's pretty unique for a heavy due to his focus on projectiles, and Donkey Kong could use the representation.
• Ganondorf is kind of a no-brainer, but I'd ideally like to see him diversified more. I really considered cutting Sheik because of her very minor role in the greater Zelda series, but she's so popular amongst the Smash fanbase that I figured she could be grandfathered in and I didn't want Zelda to just have the main three. The Little Links didn't make it in the interest of adding more unique characters.
• I was really torn between Ridley and Zero Suit Samus, but I opted to go with Ridley in the interest of having the series' main antagonist over an alternate form of Samus. Plus, it'd be kind of depressing for Ridley to be cut after his first entry in the series following a 17-year campaign to get the guy in.
• Cutting Meta Knight felt like sacrilege, but King Dedede was prioritized over him due to having a more major role in the Kirby series and a more unique moveset. If I could add one more veteran, Meta Knight would be second in line behind a character that I'll cover later.
• StarFox was a series I deliberated a lot on. I considered keeping all three, keeping Fox and Wolf, and just keeping Fox at one point. I decided to choose Falco due to his status as an icon of the Smash series and his popularity in Melee and Brawl. I still feel pretty bad about cutting Wolf due to how much of an impact he's made in Ultimate.
• Keeping Pokemon Trainer could be considered cheating because he's technically three characters in one, but he's one of the most iconic characters on the roster to a general audience, the trio of Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are pretty amazing as far as Pokemon reps go, and Ultimate really hit a bull's eye in their implementation, which not only made the character popular but makes them relatively easy to port over with few changes.
• I opted to go with Mewtwo and Lucario for the remaining Pokemon slots due to both characters being iconic, popular in the Pokemon series, and their frequent appearances in merchandise. Greninja almost made the cut for similar reasons, but Mewtwo and Lucario feel just a cut above Greninja in this regard (even if Greninja did outperform them on the Pokemon of the Year poll). I'd still like to see Lucario reworked so he doesn't feel like a floaty mess.
• Jigglypuff was hands down the hardest cut in this roster simply because she's a member of the original 12. However, I didn't want to flood the returning vets roster with Pokemon and Jigglypuff is relatively unremarkable in her home series. I cut Pichu and Incineroar for similar reasons. If I had another slot remaining, I'd fill it with the Puff.
• Ness and Captain Falcon are too popular within the Smash series and their series are too fondly remembered to seriously consider getting rid of them. Lucas was largely a victim of the 50-character limit, as I wanted to include a wider range of playstyles and Mother still has Ness.
• Deciding which retro reps to keep was the toughest choice I had to make in this roster, as there's a pretty strong argument for all of their inclusions. I decided to limit myself to 2 characters from this category, as any more would force me to dip into secondary characters from active series and the third parties that would otherwise make the cut. I decided to keep Mr. Game & Watch and Little Mac. G&W has become something of a Smash staple and the revamp that he got in Ultimate really makes him feel actualized in both his playstyle and appearance, which makes him relatively easy to port. Little Mac is probably a somewhat controversial choice, but Punch-Out's extensive legacy (seriously, how many references did it get in the Mario movie), Little Mac's unique playstyle, and the fact that Punch-Out is a series rather than a singular release like many of the other retro reps led me to prioritize him.
• Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt were all considered, but I opted to go with Little Mac and G&W for the reasons above.
• Fire Emblem was also a really tough series to decide. Ike seemed the most obvious inclusion (behind Marth) due to his unique moveset, the popularity of the Tellius games in the Fire Emblem fanbase, Ike's popularity in both Fire Emblem and Smash, and his prominence in Ultimate's marketing. I really struggled to decide between Robin and Byleth, but I opted to go with Byleth in the interest of representing Three Houses, Byleth's popularity in Ultimate's competitive scene, and because Awakening already has a rep in Lucina. I did consider bringing Roy back, but I opted to go with the Fire Emblem characters that have more unique movesets. Corrin just wasn't popular enough to include.
• I considered bringing Palutena back due to her unique moveset, but Kid Icarus didn't have enough priority over other series to get a second rep.
• Pyra/Mythra are popular in Smash and Xenoblade, they have a pretty unique moveset, and Xenoblade is definitely big enough for a second rep, so they stayed.
• Isabelle almost made the roster, but I cut her due to her somewhat unpopular playstyle in Smash and her somewhat diminished role in the Animal Crossing series relative to in the Wii U and 3DS era.
• I heavily considered Wii Fit Trainer and Min Min, but they both hail from series with somewhat dubious futures and are relatively unpopular in Smash (although they are not without their fans)
• I decided to bring back most of the DLC characters from Ultimate, simply because they all have a lot of merit behind their inclusions.
• The exceptions to this trend were Hero and Sora, both because they seem to have additional licensing issues that most other third parties don't have (Hero's issues with Sugiyama's music and Sora happening by the skin of his teeth in Ultimate, although it remains to be seen if things change) and in the interest of not completely filling the returning vets with DLC characters.
• If I had 10 more slots, I would add Jigglypuff, Meta Knight, Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Robin, Greninja, Zero Suit Samus, Ice Climbers, Hero, and Sora.

[/spoilers]
[spoilers= Newcomers]

• Waluigi - Arguably the most requested character of the post-Ultimate period, he's the most notable Mario character to not have been in Smash after Toad, and his personality gives him a lot of moveset potential.
• Bandana Waddle Dee - His role in the Kirby series and his popularity as a Smash candidate only continues to increase, his source material perfectly tailors him to have an easy-to-envision and unique Smash moveset, and he has limited competition in both his home series and among other popular first-party characters.
• Meowscarada - Pokemon's newest gen always gets a character, it seems like the Springattio line will have a major role in the new season of the anime, and a moveset based around grass-type attacks and sleight-of-hand tricks could be a lot of fun.
• Octoling - While Octoling could be an echo fighter, Splatoon is big enough of a series to justify a second unique fighter and Splatoons 2 and 3 added enough new weapons for Octoling to be distinct from Inkling
• Ring Fit Adventurer - Ring Fit Adventure is Nintendo's most successful new IP from the Switch era and the combination of utilizing the ring and her exercise-based attacks would allow her to be a fun and distinct successor to the Wii Fit Trainer.
• Geno - He's incredibly popular, he's got a unique basis for a moveset, and he's finally back in the limelight with the Super Mario RPG remake.
• Tails and Knuckles - I'm covering these two together because there's a lot of overlap in the reasons behind their inclusion. I put a lot of emphasis on filling out the supporting casts of third-party franchises, as this is an easy way to get a lot of big newcomers that catch eyes into Smash without blowing up the game's licensing budget. Sonic is an incredibly popular franchise, he's the sole third-party character to appear in every Smash game featuring non-Nintendo characters, and his new movie franchise has introduced the series to a new, wider audience. So, I think two newcomers from Sonic isn't that out there. Tails and Knuckles seem like two of the most obvious candidates for this role given their legacy in the Sonic games, their major roles in the second Sonic Movie, and the way that you could juxtapose an aerial and ground-focused moveset between the two of them. While I also considered Eggman as a Sonic newcomer, I ended up liking the combination of Tails and Knuckles more than Tails or Knuckles and Eggman.
• X - I imagine this will be the most controversial newcomer, but I think X deserves a spot for a couple of reasons. Mega Man is a massive franchise with a strong legacy and it has received a ton of content in Smash between Smash for and Ultimate. So, I don't think two newcomers are necessarily that out there. X is the most popular and iconic version of the blue bomber after Mega Man himself and he's the protagonist of X1, which is up there with 2 as one of the most celebrated, popular, and iconic games in the Mega Man series. Additionally, X himself has a relatively easy-to-envision moveset, based around a glass cannon playstyle with strong movement options, a sea of projectiles, and the ability to charge his weapons for powerful mix-ups while being light and having very options for close combat.
• Zero - He's an incredibly popular and important character in the greater Mega Man series that is slowly building up support as a Smash candidate. He's also got a tailor-made moveset for Smash and he'd fit in incredibly well alongside X, given the Mega Man X series' emphasis on X and Zero's bond.
• Chun-Li - She's the first lady of fighting games, Street Fighter is seeing a renaissance with the success of Street Fighter VI, and she's slowly gaining support in Smash speculation.
• Alucard - Much like with Mega Man, Castlevania is a massive name that has received a ton of content in Smash. Alucard seems like a no-brainer for the next Castlevania character. He's incredibly popular and important in his home series, he has a ton of moveset potential, Symphony of the Night is simultaneously one of the most popular games in the series and a crown jewel of the PS1's library, and Sakurai has even considered him in the past.
• Yu - Persona's explosion in popularity since the release of 5 and Joker's insane popularity as a character in Ultimate definitely justifies getting a second Persona character. Yu seems like the most obvious edition, being the protagonist of the most popular entry in the series behind 5. Plus, while Joker focused on Persona's dichotomous gameplay system through alternating between a resource-gathering phase and a combat-focused phase, Yu could represent Persona's combat systems by augmenting his attacks through switching through a handful of Persona (probably Izanagi, Jack Frost, and Jack O' Lantern for a electric-ice-fire trio).
• Bomberman - Between the assist trophy and the deluxe Mii costume, he seems like a very strong candidate for the next Smash. Plus, he's from a series with a ton of legacy and his abilities lend themselves well to a fun, trap-based moveset.
• Crash - Due to the number of third party series I brought back, I decided to limit myself to only one fully new series. I opted to go for Crash, as he was the popular character during Ultimate's DLC era that didn't get anything in the main game.

[/spoilers]
[spoilers= Echo fighters]

• I opted to bring back most of the echo fighters from Ultimate, as most of them require little dev time and there's really no reason not to include them.
• Chrom was the exception to this trend, as Roy himself was not brought back.
• Dixie was included as a Diddy echo as an easy way to pad out the number of Donkey Kong characters. Ideally, she'd have unique throws and her Up-B would be replaced with a variation of Spinning Kong.
• I'm honestly surprised that Shadow didn't make it as an echo fighter in Ultimate given the fact he's a Sonic clone in SA2, Heroes, and Forces. So, I decided to add him here. He'd be slightly slower than Sonic, but would hit harder and have a teleporting Up-B to compensate.
• Jin is probably the biggest stretch to make an echo fighter, but I think it could work if you primarily based Jin off of his Tekken 3 appearance and his ability to swap with Devil Jin in Tekken Tag Tournament 2, similar to how Ken is primarily based on SFII so he could echo Ryu. Kazuya's newer moves could also be swapped with some of Jin's moves from Tekken 4 onwards.
• Big Boss was added both to get a second Metal Gear rep in, to promote the Metal Gear Solid 3 remake, and because Big Boss is the second most important character in the series after Snake himself. His trapping moves would be worse than Snake's, but his physical attacks would be better because of his association with CQC.
• Makoto was added to represent the three Persona games that Atlus loves to promote and to promote the Persona 3 remake. He would swap Jack O'Latern for Orpheus and Izanagi for Pixie respectively.

[/spoilers]

This is a pretty unique roster list. I’m happy to see Sephiroth brought back because most lists I’ve seen dropped him and he’s my favorite Smash character. It would definitely be a change in direction to get so many characters from a single third party franchise in one game but I generally like all of them so I wouldn’t be mad at that. Zero’s on my list of characters I’d love to see and others like X, Knuckles, Alucard, and more would be cool too. My only contention is that I think it would be fun to vary up the Persona reps a bit other than three main avatar characters. It’s not likely but my favorites from each game are Mitsuru, Kanji, and Makoto Niijima (Queen). I feel like Aigis would be a solid rep for Persona 3 because she had the whole FES expansion centered around her and she had a pretty big role in Persona 4 Arena.

 

[fogbadge]

Thats the thing, the fans didnt think it was the first home console Pokemon game, the general public did.

And we all know the general public has the say in whats popular and whats not and because a lot of them got into the series WITH sword and shield and just assumed "This is what Pokemon is i guess"

To the actual Pokemon fanbase Sword and shield is a divisive mess that people like to rag on but for people outside the fanbase, the general public just kinda assume this is what the franchise is because they dont like playing handheld games and never played the older games.

again if the public thought it was the first home console game that’s on them cause no made the claim it was

gen 8 was very divisive before it came out. when everyone got the game they stopped. kinda like what happened when bayo was revealed for smash thinking about it.

but games that have more haters than fans do not reach that level of success over that long a period of time

 

[Opossum]

I decided to try my hand at making a Smash 6 roster:
View attachment 376103
[spoilers= General Ideas Behind the Roster]

• The two main goals when making this roster were 1. make it realistic and 2. make it so people wouldn't view it as a clear downgrade relative to Ultimate.
• I limited myself to 50 veterans, not counting any echo fighters or the Miis (mostly because they're more like a mechanic than conventional fighters at this point).
• When choosing veterans, I prioritized recognizability, fan favourite status inside and outside of Smash, characters that repped their own franchises, unique playstyles, and characters that could be ported from Ultimate with minimal changes (a lot of Ultimate's newcomers returned for this reason).
• I wanted the number of unique newcomers to fall somewhere below what Brawl and Smash for's base game brought while being above what Melee and Ultimate's base game brought. I landed on 14 unique newcomers, which is still a little high side but still within the realm of reason.
• I wanted every newcomer to be an exciting addition that would generally get people excited.

[/spoilers]
[spoilers= Veterans]

• Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Link, Zelda, Samus, Kirby, Fox, Pikachu, Marth, Pit, Shulk, Villager, Inkling, and Olimar don't really need any explanation.
• Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Dr. Mario, and Piranha Plant didn't make the cut in the interest of not filling the roster with Mario characters. I feel pretty bad about cutting Rosalina and Bowser Jr. in particular because they are popular are far as Mario characters go and they have unique playstyles for Smash.
• I considered cutting K. Rool, but he was such a massive request prior to Ultimate, he's relatively popular among the casual crowd, he's pretty unique for a heavy due to his focus on projectiles, and Donkey Kong could use the representation.
• Ganondorf is kind of a no-brainer, but I'd ideally like to see him diversified more. I really considered cutting Sheik because of her very minor role in the greater Zelda series, but she's so popular amongst the Smash fanbase that I figured she could be grandfathered in and I didn't want Zelda to just have the main three. The Little Links didn't make it in the interest of adding more unique characters.
• I was really torn between Ridley and Zero Suit Samus, but I opted to go with Ridley in the interest of having the series' main antagonist over an alternate form of Samus. Plus, it'd be kind of depressing for Ridley to be cut after his first entry in the series following a 17-year campaign to get the guy in.
• Cutting Meta Knight felt like sacrilege, but King Dedede was prioritized over him due to having a more major role in the Kirby series and a more unique moveset. If I could add one more veteran, Meta Knight would be second in line behind a character that I'll cover later.
• StarFox was a series I deliberated a lot on. I considered keeping all three, keeping Fox and Wolf, and just keeping Fox at one point. I decided to choose Falco due to his status as an icon of the Smash series and his popularity in Melee and Brawl. I still feel pretty bad about cutting Wolf due to how much of an impact he's made in Ultimate.
• Keeping Pokemon Trainer could be considered cheating because he's technically three characters in one, but he's one of the most iconic characters on the roster to a general audience, the trio of Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are pretty amazing as far as Pokemon reps go, and Ultimate really hit a bull's eye in their implementation, which not only made the character popular but makes them relatively easy to port over with few changes.
• I opted to go with Mewtwo and Lucario for the remaining Pokemon slots due to both characters being iconic, popular in the Pokemon series, and their frequent appearances in merchandise. Greninja almost made the cut for similar reasons, but Mewtwo and Lucario feel just a cut above Greninja in this regard (even if Greninja did outperform them on the Pokemon of the Year poll). I'd still like to see Lucario reworked so he doesn't feel like a floaty mess.
• Jigglypuff was hands down the hardest cut in this roster simply because she's a member of the original 12. However, I didn't want to flood the returning vets roster with Pokemon and Jigglypuff is relatively unremarkable in her home series. I cut Pichu and Incineroar for similar reasons. If I had another slot remaining, I'd fill it with the Puff.
• Ness and Captain Falcon are too popular within the Smash series and their series are too fondly remembered to seriously consider getting rid of them. Lucas was largely a victim of the 50-character limit, as I wanted to include a wider range of playstyles and Mother still has Ness.
• Deciding which retro reps to keep was the toughest choice I had to make in this roster, as there's a pretty strong argument for all of their inclusions. I decided to limit myself to 2 characters from this category, as any more would force me to dip into secondary characters from active series and the third parties that would otherwise make the cut. I decided to keep Mr. Game & Watch and Little Mac. G&W has become something of a Smash staple and the revamp that he got in Ultimate really makes him feel actualized in both his playstyle and appearance, which makes him relatively easy to port. Little Mac is probably a somewhat controversial choice, but Punch-Out's extensive legacy (seriously, how many references did it get in the Mario movie), Little Mac's unique playstyle, and the fact that Punch-Out is a series rather than a singular release like many of the other retro reps led me to prioritize him.
• Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt were all considered, but I opted to go with Little Mac and G&W for the reasons above.
• Fire Emblem was also a really tough series to decide. Ike seemed the most obvious inclusion (behind Marth) due to his unique moveset, the popularity of the Tellius games in the Fire Emblem fanbase, Ike's popularity in both Fire Emblem and Smash, and his prominence in Ultimate's marketing. I really struggled to decide between Robin and Byleth, but I opted to go with Byleth in the interest of representing Three Houses, Byleth's popularity in Ultimate's competitive scene, and because Awakening already has a rep in Lucina. I did consider bringing Roy back, but I opted to go with the Fire Emblem characters that have more unique movesets. Corrin just wasn't popular enough to include.
• I considered bringing Palutena back due to her unique moveset, but Kid Icarus didn't have enough priority over other series to get a second rep.
• Pyra/Mythra are popular in Smash and Xenoblade, they have a pretty unique moveset, and Xenoblade is definitely big enough for a second rep, so they stayed.
• Isabelle almost made the roster, but I cut her due to her somewhat unpopular playstyle in Smash and her somewhat diminished role in the Animal Crossing series relative to in the Wii U and 3DS era.
• I heavily considered Wii Fit Trainer and Min Min, but they both hail from series with somewhat dubious futures and are relatively unpopular in Smash (although they are not without their fans)
• I decided to bring back most of the DLC characters from Ultimate, simply because they all have a lot of merit behind their inclusions.
• The exceptions to this trend were Hero and Sora, both because they seem to have additional licensing issues that most other third parties don't have (Hero's issues with Sugiyama's music and Sora happening by the skin of his teeth in Ultimate, although it remains to be seen if things change) and in the interest of not completely filling the returning vets with DLC characters.
• If I had 10 more slots, I would add Jigglypuff, Meta Knight, Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Robin, Greninja, Zero Suit Samus, Ice Climbers, Hero, and Sora.

[/spoilers]
[spoilers= Newcomers]

• Waluigi - Arguably the most requested character of the post-Ultimate period, he's the most notable Mario character to not have been in Smash after Toad, and his personality gives him a lot of moveset potential.
• Bandana Waddle Dee - His role in the Kirby series and his popularity as a Smash candidate only continues to increase, his source material perfectly tailors him to have an easy-to-envision and unique Smash moveset, and he has limited competition in both his home series and among other popular first-party characters.
• Meowscarada - Pokemon's newest gen always gets a character, it seems like the Springattio line will have a major role in the new season of the anime, and a moveset based around grass-type attacks and sleight-of-hand tricks could be a lot of fun.
• Octoling - While Octoling could be an echo fighter, Splatoon is big enough of a series to justify a second unique fighter and Splatoons 2 and 3 added enough new weapons for Octoling to be distinct from Inkling
• Ring Fit Adventurer - Ring Fit Adventure is Nintendo's most successful new IP from the Switch era and the combination of utilizing the ring and her exercise-based attacks would allow her to be a fun and distinct successor to the Wii Fit Trainer.
• Geno - He's incredibly popular, he's got a unique basis for a moveset, and he's finally back in the limelight with the Super Mario RPG remake.
• Tails and Knuckles - I'm covering these two together because there's a lot of overlap in the reasons behind their inclusion. I put a lot of emphasis on filling out the supporting casts of third-party franchises, as this is an easy way to get a lot of big newcomers that catch eyes into Smash without blowing up the game's licensing budget. Sonic is an incredibly popular franchise, he's the sole third-party character to appear in every Smash game featuring non-Nintendo characters, and his new movie franchise has introduced the series to a new, wider audience. So, I think two newcomers from Sonic isn't that out there. Tails and Knuckles seem like two of the most obvious candidates for this role given their legacy in the Sonic games, their major roles in the second Sonic Movie, and the way that you could juxtapose an aerial and ground-focused moveset between the two of them. While I also considered Eggman as a Sonic newcomer, I ended up liking the combination of Tails and Knuckles more than Tails or Knuckles and Eggman.
• X - I imagine this will be the most controversial newcomer, but I think X deserves a spot for a couple of reasons. Mega Man is a massive franchise with a strong legacy and it has received a ton of content in Smash between Smash for and Ultimate. So, I don't think two newcomers are necessarily that out there. X is the most popular and iconic version of the blue bomber after Mega Man himself and he's the protagonist of X1, which is up there with 2 as one of the most celebrated, popular, and iconic games in the Mega Man series. Additionally, X himself has a relatively easy-to-envision moveset, based around a glass cannon playstyle with strong movement options, a sea of projectiles, and the ability to charge his weapons for powerful mix-ups while being light and having very options for close combat.
• Zero - He's an incredibly popular and important character in the greater Mega Man series that is slowly building up support as a Smash candidate. He's also got a tailor-made moveset for Smash and he'd fit in incredibly well alongside X, given the Mega Man X series' emphasis on X and Zero's bond.
• Chun-Li - She's the first lady of fighting games, Street Fighter is seeing a renaissance with the success of Street Fighter VI, and she's slowly gaining support in Smash speculation.
• Alucard - Much like with Mega Man, Castlevania is a massive name that has received a ton of content in Smash. Alucard seems like a no-brainer for the next Castlevania character. He's incredibly popular and important in his home series, he has a ton of moveset potential, Symphony of the Night is simultaneously one of the most popular games in the series and a crown jewel of the PS1's library, and Sakurai has even considered him in the past.
• Yu - Persona's explosion in popularity since the release of 5 and Joker's insane popularity as a character in Ultimate definitely justifies getting a second Persona character. Yu seems like the most obvious edition, being the protagonist of the most popular entry in the series behind 5. Plus, while Joker focused on Persona's dichotomous gameplay system through alternating between a resource-gathering phase and a combat-focused phase, Yu could represent Persona's combat systems by augmenting his attacks through switching through a handful of Persona (probably Izanagi, Jack Frost, and Jack O' Lantern for a electric-ice-fire trio).
• Bomberman - Between the assist trophy and the deluxe Mii costume, he seems like a very strong candidate for the next Smash. Plus, he's from a series with a ton of legacy and his abilities lend themselves well to a fun, trap-based moveset.
• Crash - Due to the number of third party series I brought back, I decided to limit myself to only one fully new series. I opted to go for Crash, as he was the popular character during Ultimate's DLC era that didn't get anything in the main game.

[/spoilers]
[spoilers= Echo fighters]

• I opted to bring back most of the echo fighters from Ultimate, as most of them require little dev time and there's really no reason not to include them.
• Chrom was the exception to this trend, as Roy himself was not brought back.
• Dixie was included as a Diddy echo as an easy way to pad out the number of Donkey Kong characters. Ideally, she'd have unique throws and her Up-B would be replaced with a variation of Spinning Kong.
• I'm honestly surprised that Shadow didn't make it as an echo fighter in Ultimate given the fact he's a Sonic clone in SA2, Heroes, and Forces. So, I decided to add him here. He'd be slightly slower than Sonic, but would hit harder and have a teleporting Up-B to compensate.
• Jin is probably the biggest stretch to make an echo fighter, but I think it could work if you primarily based Jin off of his Tekken 3 appearance and his ability to swap with Devil Jin in Tekken Tag Tournament 2, similar to how Ken is primarily based on SFII so he could echo Ryu. Kazuya's newer moves could also be swapped with some of Jin's moves from Tekken 4 onwards.
• Big Boss was added both to get a second Metal Gear rep in, to promote the Metal Gear Solid 3 remake, and because Big Boss is the second most important character in the series after Snake himself. His trapping moves would be worse than Snake's, but his physical attacks would be better because of his association with CQC.
• Makoto was added to represent the three Persona games that Atlus loves to promote and to promote the Persona 3 remake. He would swap Jack O'Latern for Orpheus and Izanagi for Pixie respectively.

[/spoilers]

Not gonna harp on cuts too much because, again, you had a self-imposed 50 veteran limit lol.

The one thing I do want to contest is the reasoning for the Min Min cut specifically. I don't think anything about the future of ARMS is any more uncertain than a lot of the other series on the roster. The game sold almost three million units on its debut outing. It was a proven success. The only thing holding it up from getting a sequel is that the team that made it is also the Mario Kart team, which is understandably busy at the moment. If the rumors are true about the Switch's successor coming out late next year, I'm of the opinion that Mario Kart 9 will be either a launch title or a near launch title, and then the team will work on ARMS 2.

New IP that were far less successful got sequels. I don't see them just ignoring ARMS.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

again if the public thought it was the first home console game that’s on them cause no made the claim it was

gen 8 was very divisive before it came out. when everyone got the game they stopped. kinda like what happened when bayo was revealed for smash thinking about it.

but games that have more haters than fans do not reach that level of success over that long a period of time

I dont know man, the fact that Pokemon Legends and Pokemon Scarlet/Violet kinda feel like the "Anti" sword and shield and the fact that Gamefreak fully ditched the Galar region and it's gimmicks almost immediately kinda points to the idea that the game just isnt that popular within the fanbase.

Sword/Shield: Had no story, the region is just one long hallway with nothing to find off the beaten path with extremely forgettable characters.

Legends/Scarlet/Violet: Actually tried to have a plot, the games are focused around exploration, they actually tried with the characters, people love the characters from these two games.

 

[Opossum]

I dont know man, the fact that Pokemon Legends and Pokemon Scarlet/Violet kinda feel like the "Anti" sword and shield and the fact that Gamefreak fully ditched the Galar region and it's gimmicks almost immediately kinda points to the idea that the game just isnt that popular within the fanbase.

Sword/Shield: Had no story, the region is just one long hallway with nothing to find off the beaten path with extremely forgettable characters.

Legends/Scarlet/Violet: Actually tried to have a plot, the games are focused around exploration, they actually tried with the characters, people love the characters from these two games.

I have a LOT of issues with Sword and Shield but to say the game had forgettable characters wholesale is ridiculous lol. A ton of the characters from that game are super popular.

 

[fogbadge]

I dont know man, the fact that Pokemon Legends and Pokemon Scarlet/Violet kinda feel like the "Anti" sword and shield and the fact that Gamefreak fully ditched the Galar region and it's gimmicks almost immediately kinda points to the idea that the game just isnt that popular within the fanbase.

Sword/Shield: Had no story, the region is just one long hallway with nothing to find off the beaten path with extremely forgettable characters.

Legends/Scarlet/Violet: Actually tried to have a plot, the games are focused around exploration, they actually tried with the characters, people love the characters from these two games.

that’s not unusual for Pokémon though, they’re always ditching mechanics not long after introducing them. and story is rarely a strong point. look at gen 1 it’s got basically nothing in terms of story, certainly no more than gen 8

 

[Hadokeyblade]

that’s not unusual for Pokémon though, they’re always ditching mechanics not long after introducing them. and story is rarely a strong point. look at gen 1 it’s got basically nothing in terms of story, certainly no more than gen 8

The thing with the mechanics is that they are meant to stick the entire generation.

Remember we got a few years with Alola and it's gimmicks and Kalos with it's gimmicks.

You cant really say that with Galar when Gen 8 had more Sinnoh games than Galar games.

Heck this is the first Smash game where we DIDNT get a newcomer from the current Pokemon generation. Idk, seems kinda weird lol

I have a LOT of issues with Sword and Shield but to say the game had forgettable characters wholesale is ridiculous lol. A ton of the characters from that game are super popular.

They are mainly popular in certain circles for reasons that arent "for good boys and girls"

 

[SPEN18]

So people are establishing that we can celebrate gaming without that entailing celebrating all of gaming. But what impact does that have on the identity of Smash, if it's just a somewhat random smattering of big names? Just because you can in fact do it doesn't make it good. It gets even worse if that random smattering of big names is not even the main event, and runs counter to the mindset, theming, and selection process for the rest of the roster. In this case it can not be sensibly more than special guest bonus content, and that is exactly what it has always been since Brawl.
It should be reiterated that the extraspecial and largely unrepeatable conditions of Ultimate have warped perspectives into unrealistic views on the role of third parties in Smash. EiH motivating the otherwise non-economical retention of all past 3P content while limiting the number of first party newcomers, combined with an extended DLC cycle that further skewed the normal balance of 1P vs. 3P newcomers, enabled tumorous growth of 3P content.

 

[fogbadge]

The thing with the mechanics is that they are meant to stick the entire generation.

Remember we got a few years with Alola and it's gimmicks and Kalos with it's gimmicks.

You cant really say that with Galar when Gen 8 had more Sinnoh games than Galar games.

Heck this is the first Smash game where we DIDNT get a newcomer from the current Pokemon generation. Idk, seems kinda weird lol

Yeah but alolas gimmick wasn’t seen outside of alola. neither was one of unovas I’d like to point out. But legends was meant to be a different experience and the remakes were handed off to other people, neither were going to be the norm

and while that is true in regards to smash it was also the first time a new Pokemon gen came out during a dlc cycle

 

[chocolatejr9]

They are mainly popular in certain circles for reasons that arent "for good boys and girls"

You know who else is, though? LITERALLY EVERY CHARACTER IN THE POKEMON FRANCHISE.

Which is kinda awkward once you realize how many of them are minors. Either way, that point is invalid.

 

[Opossum]

They are mainly popular in certain circles for reasons that arent "for good boys and girls"

I'm sorry but either you've been genuinely living under a rock or are being willfully ignorant if you think people only like Sword and Shield's cast for the porn.

Did you just like, completely miss the explosion of Raihan and Iono crossover fanart when the latter was revealed? Or miss the fact that Leon has several alts in Masters?

 

[Gengar84]

The thing with the mechanics is that they are meant to stick the entire generation.

Remember we got a few years with Alola and it's gimmicks and Kalos with it's gimmicks.

You cant really say that with Galar when Gen 8 had more Sinnoh games than Galar games.

Heck this is the first Smash game where we DIDNT get a newcomer from the current Pokemon generation. Idk, seems kinda weird lol



They are mainly popular in certain circles for reasons that arent "for good boys and girls"

That might be true for some people but I just personally liked a lot of the designs for the characters without any regard to content not suitable “for good boys and girls. I just think Marnie, Nessa, Piers, and Raihan all have fun designs.

The story was very underwhelming though and you could really tell the last third of the game or so was really rushed. There was basically no room for exploration and the final dungeon was just an elevator shaft and the final gym was just two normal 2 on 2 battles and you couldn’t even walk around in the gym.

I understand the reasons why they couldn’t bring all the Pokémon back but the way they announced it still kind of bothers me. It also kills my motivation into investing in any Pokémon too much or forming any kind of connection because I likely can’t bring them over to the next Gen. It’s still fun enough for now to play through the main story and discover new Pokémon but once that wears off, I’m usually done after about a month or two. I used to put 500+ hours in each game up to and including Gen 6 but I started falling off with ORAS.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I understand the reasons why they couldn’t bring all the Pokémon back but the way they announced it still kind of bothers me. It also kills my motivation into investing in any Pokémon too much or forming any kind of connection because I likely can’t bring them over to the next Gen. It’s still fun enough for now to play through the main story and discover new Pokémon but once that wears off, I’m usually done after about a month or two. I used to put 500+ hours in each game up to and including Gen 6 but I started falling off with ORAS.

The annoying part is that all the Pokemon are in the game files for all the switch Pokemon games, they just replaced the models with Pikachu.

So it's not even console limitations or anything, they just want you to invest in Home.

 

[Gengar84]

The annoying part is that all the Pokemon are in the game files for all the switch Pokemon games, they just replaced the models with Pikachu.

So it's not even console limitations or anything, they just want you to invest in Home.

Yeah, and even then, some moves can’t be transferred even if you paid for the service and you could actually bring them over. I’m kind of stubborn in that I don’t like to pay for something that used to be free so I never got Pokémon Home or the Switch online.

I think the one thing that would get me fully invested again is if they announced a Pokémon Stadium 3 by a different developer. That way, we could have all the Pokémon in one game and they could focus on better graphics and animations since they wouldn’t really need to build a world or story.” They could bring back all the gimmicks of past games like Megas, Z-Moves, Dynamax, and Terrastilization as toggalable options. Most importantly, we should be able to store our Pokémon in the game and be able to play locally against our own Pokémon or those of friend’s that we select individually instead of cards like Battle Revolution.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, and even then, some moves can’t be transferred even if you paid for the service and you could actually bring them over. I’m kind of stubborn in that I don’t like to pay for something that used to be free so I never got Pokémon Home or the Switch online.

I think the one thing that would get me fully invested again is if they announced a Pokémon Stadium 3 by a different developer. That way, we could have all the Pokémon in one game and they could focus on better graphics and animations since they wouldn’t really need to build a world or story.” They could bring back all the gimmicks of past games like Megas, Z-Moves, Dynamax, and Terrastilization as toggalable options. Most importantly, we should be able to store our Pokémon in the game and be able to play locally against our own Pokémon or those of friend’s that we select individually instead of cards like Battle Revolution.

it'd be easier to wish for a magic carpet

 

[Gengar84]

it'd be easier to wish for a magic carpet

Unfortunately, yeah. It’s a shame too because this is basically a perfect scenario where another Stadium could really address a lot of modern Pokémon’s shortcomings. Not going to hold my breath. I’ll put that in the back of my mind along with my hopes for another Chrono or Rogue Galaxy game lol.

 

[fogbadge]

Unfortunately, yeah. It’s a shame too because this is basically a perfect scenario where another Stadium could really address a lot of modern Pokémon’s shortcomings. Not going to hold my breath. I’ll put that in the back of my mind along with my hopes for another Chrono or Rogue Galaxy game lol.

only if you’re in it for the battling. people in it for the collecting might feel left out

 

[Gengar84]

only if you’re in it for the battling. people in it for the collecting might feel left out

I think it perfectly solves the collecting aspect too. It would give you a place to store all your Pokémon you raised from the main games so they’ll always be a use for them. There doesn’t seem to be much an incentive for collecting in the mainline games since we know that less than half of them will return in the following Gen. At least, that’s how I feel about it.

 

[fogbadge]

I think it perfectly solves the collecting aspect too. It would give you a place to store all your Pokémon you raised from the main games so they’ll always be a use for them. There doesn’t seem to be much an incentive for collecting in the mainline games since we know that less than half of them will return in the following Gen. At least, that’s how I feel about it.

not really cause we already have home as a place to store them. and those of us who like collecting have no problem getting them again and again

 

[Perkilator]

I had another thought: how would you guys feel if the FE lineup in Smash was this?
1. Marth (64, along with the other three cut characters Bowser, Dedede and Mewtwo; moveset remains the same)
2. Lyn (Brawl; moveset involves a mix of sword and bow attacks)
3. Ike (Brawl; moveset is mostly the same, but with Urvan for the Smash attacks)
4. Chrom (Sm4sh; uses a mix of sword and lance attacks. Lucina is also an alt.)
5. Azura (Sm4sh as DLC; primarily uses a lance, but also incorporates dancing and water bending)
6. Byleth (Ultimate; moveset remains the same)

Decided to make a thread.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Since we are talking Pokemon a bit, I figured I would say one or two things about how I feel Pokemon representation can go.

For starters, I think it is a given that the newest generation will get a newcomer unless the timing is too rough to make it work. For example, lets say Smash 6 launches in June of 2025, and Gen X launches in November of 2025. I could see us missing the boat there. We have seen potentially newer things miss the boat in terms of content before. Despite ORAS being right around the corner, it did not get any content in Smash 4. Similarly, Lets Go Pikachu and Eevee did not get any in Smash Ultimate. These are remakes instead of full fledged new games, but I could see Pokemon ending up in a situation where Gen X ends up missing the boat just due to timing, depending on when the new Smash comes out.

Speaking of Gen X, I think there is a very real chance we do not get Generation X until 2026. Pokemon likes to have a new generation to hype up their 10 year anniversaries. Gen IV launched in Japan in 2006, while Gen VII was pushed hard as the 20th anniversary. I think it would make some sense for a new generation to be their massive reveal for 2026. I also think that we will probably not see a new Pokemon game on the next Nintendo system until at least one year post launch. Game Freak is a bit gunshy on releasing a new generation right on new hardware. That does not mean Gen IX is a lock, we could get a Black and White and get a late in life Switch release if the next system if backwards compatible. But I do think that this generation could come later rather than sooner. It also helps that Unova is an easy stopgap if they wish to postpone an Gen X a bit. Remaking BW/Bw2 into one game along with a Legends game similar to what they did for Gen IV could give them the time they want if they want Gen X to be the anniversary game.

I think a "newest gen" pokemon is pretty much a given. If we are pulling from Gen IX, I think the pick at this point is obviously Meowscarada. You could maybe swing Tinkaton or a Ceruledge, but I think at this point the writing is on the wall; Game Freak likes their grass cat.

The bigger point I would push is that I think Pokemon is one of the few franchises I think can get two unique reps in the next game. It has happened before in Brawl. Pokemon is also unquestionably big enough to get this treatment. Sword and Shield and Scarlet and Violet were some of the biggest success stories on the switch. I think its very likely the next Smash game will be looking back fondly on the Switch era, so it would not surprise me if they had a second Pokemon from it even if Gen X is on time for the next Smash. You also have the fact there are "evergreen" pokemon you could push that have a huge role in the franchise. The best example of this would be Eevee, which has become the defacto second mascot of the series. Getting something like Meowscarada or Eeve or Meowscarada and Cinderace wouldn't be that weird if Gen IX is still our newest gen, at least to me. I think for most series, if we get one character, it means lights out for anyone else. For example, if we got Demon King Ganondorf or Bandana Dee, I would not be optimistic on Skull Kid or Marx for example. Pokemon is big enough and successful enough it can swing two unique reps imo. The only other first party i would give that luxury is Mario.

The final thing I will say for Pokemon is I can kind of see it being fertile ground for a surprise pick. I doubt that we will see another generic mook like Piranha Plant. It might be hard to say if Sakurai or whoever leads the next Smash wants to lean into another historical surprise. As much as I might want Excitebiker or a Hanafuda character, I can easily see them getting ignored as the oddball pick in order to pursue something weirder. A random Pokemon that does not translate naturally into being a fighter would not be the most out there pick in this regard. Something like a Chandelure or Dracovish that does not immediately translate as a fighter could be exactly what the dev team wants. Some really odd pick that would have people scratching their heads. It's not like moveset design is a problem. Plant made it into Smash, if they wanted to they could make any Pokemon fit. I just think it is a fun bastion for a WTF character pick that could easily be considered.


TLDR: I think we could easily get two pokemon reps. We could easily see Newest Gen + A Switch Era Pokemon, Newest Gen + Eevee, or Newest Gen + a WTF Pokemon.

 

[Dukefire]

Thats the thing, the fans didnt think it was the first home console Pokemon game, the general public did.

And we all know the general public has the say in whats popular and whats not and because a lot of them got into the series WITH sword and shield and just assumed "This is what Pokemon is i guess"

To the actual Pokemon fanbase Sword and shield is a divisive mess that people like to rag on but for people outside the fanbase, the general public just kinda assume this is what the franchise is because they dont like playing handheld games and never played the older games.

I still remember the memories with Pokemon Colosseum, and Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2. Also, who cannot forget this epic opening.

 

[Gengar84]

Since we are talking Pokemon a bit, I figured I would say one or two things about how I feel Pokemon representation can go.

For starters, I think it is a given that the newest generation will get a newcomer unless the timing is too rough to make it work. For example, lets say Smash 6 launches in June of 2025, and Gen X launches in November of 2025. I could see us missing the boat there. We have seen potentially newer things miss the boat in terms of content before. Despite ORAS being right around the corner, it did not get any content in Smash 4. Similarly, Lets Go Pikachu and Eevee did not get any in Smash Ultimate. These are remakes instead of full fledged new games, but I could see Pokemon ending up in a situation where Gen X ends up missing the boat just due to timing, depending on when the new Smash comes out.

Speaking of Gen X, I think there is a very real chance we do not get Generation X until 2026. Pokemon likes to have a new generation to hype up their 10 year anniversaries. Gen IV launched in Japan in 2006, while Gen VII was pushed hard as the 20th anniversary. I think it would make some sense for a new generation to be their massive reveal for 2026. I also think that we will probably not see a new Pokemon game on the next Nintendo system until at least one year post launch. Game Freak is a bit gunshy on releasing a new generation right on new hardware. That does not mean Gen IX is a lock, we could get a Black and White and get a late in life Switch release if the next system if backwards compatible. But I do think that this generation could come later rather than sooner. It also helps that Unova is an easy stopgap if they wish to postpone an Gen X a bit. Remaking BW/Bw2 into one game along with a Legends game similar to what they did for Gen IV could give them the time they want if they want Gen X to be the anniversary game.

I think a "newest gen" pokemon is pretty much a given. If we are pulling from Gen IX, I think the pick at this point is obviously Meowscarada. You could maybe swing Tinkaton or a Ceruledge, but I think at this point the writing is on the wall; Game Freak likes their grass cat.

The bigger point I would push is that I think Pokemon is one of the few franchises I think can get two unique reps in the next game. It has happened before in Brawl. Pokemon is also unquestionably big enough to get this treatment. Sword and Shield and Scarlet and Violet were some of the biggest success stories on the switch. I think its very likely the next Smash game will be looking back fondly on the Switch era, so it would not surprise me if they had a second Pokemon from it even if Gen X is on time for the next Smash. You also have the fact there are "evergreen" pokemon you could push that have a huge role in the franchise. The best example of this would be Eevee, which has become the defacto second mascot of the series. Getting something like Meowscarada or Eeve or Meowscarada and Cinderace wouldn't be that weird if Gen IX is still our newest gen, at least to me. I think for most series, if we get one character, it means lights out for anyone else. For example, if we got Demon King Ganondorf or Bandana Dee, I would not be optimistic on Skull Kid or Marx for example. Pokemon is big enough and successful enough it can swing two unique reps imo. The only other first party i would give that luxury is Mario.

The final thing I will say for Pokemon is I can kind of see it being fertile ground for a surprise pick. I doubt that we will see another generic mook like Piranha Plant. It might be hard to say if Sakurai or whoever leads the next Smash wants to lean into another historical surprise. As much as I might want Excitebiker or a Hanafuda character, I can easily see them getting ignored as the oddball pick in order to pursue something weirder. A random Pokemon that does not translate naturally into being a fighter would not be the most out there pick in this regard. Something like a Chandelure or Dracovish that does not immediately translate as a fighter could be exactly what the dev team wants. Some really odd pick that would have people scratching their heads. It's not like moveset design is a problem. Plant made it into Smash, if they wanted to they could make any Pokemon fit. I just think it is a fun bastion for a WTF character pick that could easily be considered.


TLDR: I think we could easily get two pokemon reps. We could easily see Newest Gen + A Switch Era Pokemon, Newest Gen + Eevee, or Newest Gen + a WTF Pokemon.

Dumb and Dumber- So you're telling me there's a chance

Dumb and Dumber- So you're telling me there's a chance

m.youtube.com

Bottom text

 

[DarthEnderX]

Almost every genre has some kind of rep in smash, (that being either playable//mii/assist trophy). The only one missing that i can think of is Adventure games like Ace Attorney.

Famicom Detective Club has Spirits.

 

[fogbadge]

Famicom Detective Club has Spirits.

read the comment again, it was specifying specific things

 

[Opossum]

read the comment again, it was specifying specific things

Yeah, if we were counting spirits then we'd also have Kyle Hyde and Ashley Robbins.

 

[Sucumbio]

So is Sora a one trick pony or...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, what do you guys think is up with Konami? They're fine with Snake appearing in Brawl. For some reason the entire company skips Smash 4. And then in Ultimate, we get all of the Metal Gear content back and then a butt load of Castlevania content.

Was Konami just not asked back for 4? Did they refuse? How likely do you think their return is?

 

[HyperSomari64]

• Marvelous owns the Data East namesake
• Paon DP owns Karnov (their mascot)

I haven't seen a company whose franchises are disassambled.

 

[Perkilator]

So, what do you guys think is up with Konami? They're fine with Snake appearing in Brawl. For some reason the entire company skips Smash 4. And then in Ultimate, we get all of the Metal Gear content back and then a butt load of Castlevania content.

Was Konami just not asked back for 4? Did they refuse? How likely do you think their return is?

I think as far as Konami goes, something happened in the company that caused them to not return at all (they were in a pretty rough spot in the early 2010’s, after all).

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So, what do you guys think is up with Konami? They're fine with Snake appearing in Brawl. For some reason the entire company skips Smash 4. And then in Ultimate, we get all of the Metal Gear content back and then a butt load of Castlevania content.

Was Konami just not asked back for 4? Did they refuse? How likely do you think their return is?

Early 2010s Konami was a dumpster fire that either actively made bad decisions or made decisions to spite Kojima.

This is the company that according to journalists put Stalinist observation of Kojima's team and their other developers. This is the company that barred Kojima from accepting an award at The Game Awards. This is the company that pulled PT once their messy breakup with Kojima started to unravel further. Is it really that doubtful they would also pull the character that he begged to put in Smash from Smash? With all the chaos of early 2010s Konami and their at best volatile relationship with Snake's creator, I can't help but think this was another moment of Konami spiting Kojima as they prepared to kick him out the back door.

Later 2010s Konami realized they loved money more than they hated Kojima. While we can't say for sure why they dipped from Smash 4, they were pretty generous with Ultimate. Bomberman as an Assist Trophy and Deluxe Mii Costume, Snake back, Simon and Richter are playable, Dracula as a boss, tons of new remixes and a ton of music broadly, they seemed like they were willing to play ball there and just...not in 2014. It's weird for them to withdraw all their content in 4 only to return and be as easy to work with as they were. Like, they went from having a better represented IP in Smash than Sonic in Brawl, to quitting Smash 4 entirely, to being one of the best represented companies in Ultimate. I feel like it has to be some sort of fallout from their messy period early in the decade.

 

[chocolatejr9]

So, what do you guys think is up with Konami? They're fine with Snake appearing in Brawl. For some reason the entire company skips Smash 4. And then in Ultimate, we get all of the Metal Gear content back and then a butt load of Castlevania content.

Was Konami just not asked back for 4? Did they refuse? How likely do you think their return is?

Well, they WERE in a rough spot back then, especially given the drama with Hideo Kojima. Hard to say EXACTLY what happened, but I guess somebody somewhere decided it'd be better to wait it out and see what happened next.

 

[Laniv]

So, what do you guys think is up with Konami? They're fine with Snake appearing in Brawl. For some reason the entire company skips Smash 4. And then in Ultimate, we get all of the Metal Gear content back and then a butt load of Castlevania content.

Was Konami just not asked back for 4? Did they refuse? How likely do you think their return is?

Parroting what others have said here, someone (either Sakurai or a higher up at Nintendo) saw the firestorm going on with Konami and Kojima and decided that Snake just wasn't worth it at the moment.

As for the future... out of all the currently playable characters, I feel Simon has the best chance of returning. Snake's chances are lower, but not one-and-done low like I (we? Did other people think this?) thought he'd be in 2015. Hopefully they'll add Bomberman to the roster for next time.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So is Sora a one trick pony or...

Well at least he gave me excuse to want to see Super robot wars in smash.

Same idea with the cast of the devs OC's teaming up with various animated characters.

As for the future... out of all the currently playable characters, I feel Simon has the best chance of returning. Snake's chances are lower, but not one-and-done low like I (we? Did other people think this?) thought he'd be in 2015. Hopefully they'll add Bomberman to the roster for next time.

I hope if Snake comes back next game they include Metal Gear rising music, for the funny.

 

[Opossum]

• Marvelous owns the Data East namesake
• Paon DP owns Karnov (their mascot)

I haven't seen a company whose franchises are disassambled.

Yeah, when Data East went under it splintered quite a bit. It's to the point where Nintendo and PAON own split ownership of Glory of Heracles lmao. Then there's the Karnov thing you mentioned, while the bulk of the rest (like Burger Time) went to Marvelous through GMode.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yeah, when Data East went under it splintered quite a bit. It's to the point where Nintendo and PAON own split ownership of Glory of Heracles lmao. Then there's the Karnov thing you mentioned, while the bulk of the rest (like Burger Time) went to Marvelous through GMode.

Don't forget Metal Max: it went from Data East to Success, then from Success to Enterbrain, then from Enterbrain to Kadokawa Games, then JUST LAST YEAR it went from Kadokawa Games to CyGames. Where's it gonna wind up next, Sega?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Don't forget Metal Max: it went from Data East to Success, then from Success to Enterbrain, then from Enterbrain to Kadokawa Games, then JUST LAST YEAR it went from Kadokawa Games to CyGames. Where's it gonna wind up next, Sega?

LOL, maybe Marvelous is going to catch it, and slowly recovering all Data East games.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So is Sora a one trick pony or...

Sora is possibly the hardest character to obtain on the roster.

That said, it's happened already, which is a huge boon, and he's quite literally the winner of the ballot. Nintendo will want him back.

 

[Perkilator]

I still wish they did Spirit Events up until the launch for Tears of the Kingdom.

 

[Wonder Smash]

So, what do you guys think is up with Konami? They're fine with Snake appearing in Brawl. For some reason the entire company skips Smash 4. And then in Ultimate, we get all of the Metal Gear content back and then a butt load of Castlevania content.

Was Konami just not asked back for 4? Did they refuse? How likely do you think their return is?

They don't seem to be a hard company to work with and with the number content they have in Ultimate, I think they're likely to come back for the next game.