Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Idon]

Interesting. I wasn’t really aware of that. Thanks for the info.

Another series that has kind of a disappointing icon is Final Fantasy. I feel like a crystal would have been more interesting than just the letters FF.

The issue is there is no universal crystal symbol or logo in the series, in addition to the fact that the importance of crystal fluctuates across the series with some being barely present if there at all... like for example FF7.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Interesting. I wasn’t really aware of that. Thanks for the info.

Another series that has kind of a disappointing icon is Final Fantasy. I feel like a crystal would have been more interesting than just the letters FF.

At first i thought they used a generic "FF" in case they decided to add another FF character in the future from a game that wasnt 7 like Squall or Noctis.

...But after Sephiroth yeah i think it should have been the meteor from 7's logo.

 

[Gengar84]

At first i thought they used a generic "FF" in case they decided to add another FF character in the future from a game that wasnt 7 like Squall or Noctis.

...But after Sephiroth yeah i think it should have been the meteor from 7's logo.

Yeah, I was just going to say the meteor would have made a lot of sense for FFVII specifically. I think the crystal from IX’s logo would have been a good symbol for FF in general.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So, what do you guys think of the Persona's status in Smash? It's rather well represented, even if it could fit P2 somewhere in there. There isn't any issue with the content there, it just needs more. I'm not sure what a good Persona AT would be though. If Joker stays a character, would it be a P5 character? Would they use the opportunity to represent another Persona game?


And perhaps the elephant in the room... Even though Joker is a really popular inclusion, I think Persona is one of the third parties most at risk of being cut in the next game. Joker's inclusion, while earth shaking, relied more on timing then most inclusions. It's almost like the Smash team took advantage of Persona 5's huge momentum. Now that Persona 5's momentum has slowed down, can Persona and Joker stay on their own merits? The franchise is major enough to be included for sure, and its not like Persona stopped being popular or successful. But its not an industry mainstay like Sonic, Street Fighter or Final Fantasy. It doesn't have ties to Nintendo like Mega Man, Banjo Kazooie or Bayonetta. I'm also not sure how easy Atlus is to work with. They didn't approve literally everything like SNK did and their relationship with Nintendo isn't obvious. Being owned by Sega helps, as Sega seems in it for the long haul.

I just can't shake the feeling that Joker might be in trouble.

I doubt joker is going anywhere.

One of the biggest is just the fact he is a Sega character. Given how willing Sega has been to work with Smash, I doubt they wouldn’t just negotiate the rights at the same time as when they negotiate for Sonic and Bayonetta. Unless we are getting a pretty large culling, I doubt that he’s going to be on the radar due to how easy his rights are to secure.

Sakurai also adores Persona 5. He gushes about its UI and artstyle. Look through how he talks about the game, it’s clear he has a lot of love for it. I doubt that so long as he’s at the helm Joker is truly in the danger zone. Given his recent comments, I think it’s pretty likely he is returning once more to return when the next smash game arises.

Finally, I think it’s easy for people in the Nintendo bubble to underestimate Persona 5. The game was a massive success and has bled into the greater gaming conscious pretty well. I know plenty of people who are not RPG fans who got Persona 5. There’s a reason people were begging for a port for over five years and the ports did well.

I’m not going to lie, when you see some people (not all) bring up joker as a cut, it reads similar to the kind of arguments that Cloud should be cut in Smash 4, except even weaker. That sort of isolated, niche mindset that wants to purge third parties that don’t meat an arbitrary purity quota because this game doesn’t have Isaac and Dixie Kong. I’m glad that reductive mindset has died out pretty much everywhere else, but it lingers here sadly. It’s honestly kind of sad seeing people so bitter over Smash Ultimate not being “their” perfect smash. Ultimate speculation ended two years ago. Sorry Isaac or Bandana Dee didn’t get in. We don’t need to bring up cuts discussion every week to make room for them. It’s just so frustrating seeing people latch onto these outdated toxic beliefs still.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I hope some of the DLC fighters from Ultimate are base game characters in the next smash.

I know odds are that if the Square characters come back they will be DLC because that's just how Square rolls but i would feel so much better if Joker was a base game character.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I’m not going to lie, when you see some people (not all) bring up joker as a cut, it reads similar to the kind of arguments that Cloud should be cut in Smash 4, except even weaker. That sort of isolated, niche mindset that wants to purge third parties that don’t meat an arbitrary purity quota because this game doesn’t have Isaac and Dixie Kong. I’m glad that reductive mindset has died out pretty much everywhere else, but it lingers here sadly. It’s honestly kind of sad seeing people so bitter over Smash Ultimate not being “their” perfect smash. Ultimate speculation ended two years ago. Sorry Isaac or Bandana Dee didn’t get in. We don’t need to bring up cuts discussion every week to make room for them. It’s just so frustrating seeing people latch onto these outdated toxic beliefs still.

Bruh. I just thought Joker might be a character with less priority. I love Persona and want him in.

Where did all of this come from?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Bruh. I just thought Joker might be a character with less priority. I love Persona and want him in.

Where did all of this come from?

Like I said. Some people. Not all. The very vocal minority.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Given how willing Sega has been to work with Smash,

So willing that for some reason there aren't any Spirits from their series that don't have fighters or Assist Trophies currently, and absolutely no new non-Persona costumes?
Literally the only completely new thing from them in Ultimate that isn't from Persona is the Akira assist trophy and I don't understand why. Even Square and Capcom provided other stuff.
Though come to think of it, Konami had no post-launch stuff either.... (EDIT I FORGOT ABOUT THE GOEMON AND BOMBERMAN COSTUMES)

 

[Opossum]

I’m not going to lie, when you see some people (not all) bring up joker as a cut, it reads similar to the kind of arguments that Cloud should be cut in Smash 4, except even weaker. That sort of isolated, niche mindset that wants to purge third parties that don’t meat an arbitrary purity quota because this game doesn’t have Isaac and Dixie Kong. I’m glad that reductive mindset has died out pretty much everywhere else, but it lingers here sadly. It’s honestly kind of sad seeing people so bitter over Smash Ultimate not being “their” perfect smash. Ultimate speculation ended two years ago. Sorry Isaac or Bandana Dee didn’t get in. We don’t need to bring up cuts discussion every week to make room for them. It’s just so frustrating seeing people latch onto these outdated toxic beliefs still.

That's a lot of words to say that you conflate people saying a character could be cut with saying they should be cut.

 

[Gengar84]

Bruh. I just thought Joker might be a character with less priority. I love Persona and want him in.

Where did all of this come from?

It seems to me that TCT~Phantom has a pretty pessimistic outlook on people. He seems to have a habit of projecting negative mindsets on other people for no real reason. I’m not sure what causes him to always see the worst in people but it’s getting kind of old. If people have different opinions on characters, there’s nothing wrong with that but don’t try to read people’s minds and insult them for things they never said or even really implied. I’m not really sure if there’s something going on in his personal life that causes him to lash out like that but I hope everything’s alright.

 

[Speed Weed]

So willing that for some reason there aren't any Spirits from their series that don't have fighters or Assist Trophies currently, and absolutely no new non-Persona costumes?
Literally the only completely new thing from them in Ultimate that isn't from Persona is the Akira assist trophy and I don't understand why. Even Square and Capcom provided other stuff.
Though come to think of it, Konami had no post-launch stuff either....

Society if we got an Opa-Opa Mii hat

 

[fogbadge]

speaking of persona i just got 3 & 4. i'll probably have some smash ideas soon enough

 

[Gengar84]

speaking of persona i just got 3 & 4. i'll probably have some smash ideas soon enough

Nice. Have you played either of them yet? I had a lot of fun with both games but I liked 4 better overall. I didn’t really care for the fact that you couldn’t control your teammates in 3 and I personally found 4’s story more enjoyable.

 

[Speed Weed]

RodNutTakin sidenote btw Konami did have at least one post-launch thing I can recall, that being Goemon

 

[chocolatejr9]

Society if we got a Billy Hatcher Mii costume.
View attachment 376214

Sorry, had to.

 

[fogbadge]

Nice. Have you played either of them yet? I had a lot of fun with both games but I liked 4 better overall. I didn’t really care for the fact that you couldn’t control your teammates in 3 and I personally found 4’s story more enjoyable.

im gonna leave them to download tonight and get started on 4 tomorrow. the premise of jumpers into a tv appeals to me

 

[Gengar84]

im gonna leave them to download tonight and get started on 4 tomorrow. the premise of jumpers into a tv appeals to me

Yeah, it was a really cool story in my opinion. Persona feels a lot different than other JRPG’s I play where it seems to be a bit more grounded in reality with the setting. Following a schedule and doing things like studying for tests to improve your stats or hanging out with friends to build bonds was such a different thing to me compared to everything else I’ve played beforehand. I still really love games like Xenoblade and Final Fantasy IX but it’s cool that this offered something new. It’s also cool to see them carry on turn based battles where other franchises like FF transitioned to more of action RPG’s.

 

[Schnee117]

Sorry, had to.

you really didn't though

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, it was a really cool story in my opinion. Persona feels a lot different than other JRPG’s I play where it seems to be a bit more grounded in reality with the setting. Following a schedule and doing things like studying for tests to improve your stats or hanging out with friends to build bonds was such a different thing to me compared to everything else I’ve played beforehand. I still really love games like Xenoblade and Final Fantasy IX but it’s cool that this offered something new. It’s also cool to see them carry on turn based battles where other franchises like FF transitioned to more of action RPG’s.

yes having that stuff did help, though for me it’s mostly the stuff that’s completely barmy

 

[chocolatejr9]

View attachment 376221

you really didn't though

flashes back to childhood playing Billy Hatcher on Gamecube

Yes... yes I did...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sorry, had to.

Name one notable thing about Billy Hatcher.

I'm waiting.

 

[Gengar84]

Name one notable thing about Billy Hatcher.

I'm waiting.

He had a chicken head with duck feet. And a woman’s face too.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

He also keeps rollin’ rollin’ rollin’ because he knows what time it is.

That’s two things off the top of my head.

 

[Wonder Smash]

So, what do you guys think of the Persona's status in Smash? It's rather well represented, even if it could fit P2 somewhere in there. There isn't any issue with the content there, it just needs more. I'm not sure what a good Persona AT would be though. If Joker stays a character, would it be a P5 character? Would they use the opportunity to represent another Persona game?


And perhaps the elephant in the room... Even though Joker is a really popular inclusion, I think Persona is one of the third parties most at risk of being cut in the next game. Joker's inclusion, while earth shaking, relied more on timing then most inclusions. It's almost like the Smash team took advantage of Persona 5's huge momentum. Now that Persona 5's momentum has slowed down, can Persona and Joker stay on their own merits? The franchise is major enough to be included for sure, and its not like Persona stopped being popular or successful. But its not an industry mainstay like Sonic, Street Fighter or Final Fantasy. It doesn't have ties to Nintendo like Mega Man, Banjo Kazooie or Bayonetta. I'm also not sure how easy Atlus is to work with. They didn't approve literally everything like SNK did and their relationship with Nintendo isn't obvious. Being owned by Sega helps, as Sega seems in it for the long haul.

I just can't shake the feeling that Joker might be in trouble.

I had mentioned this before under this topic. It seemed like Joker was added during the peak of Persona's 5 popularity during that time. However, I don't think Joker is going to get cut seeing how much Sakurai loves Persona 5.

But I always felt that a Shin Megami Tensei rep was more fitting for Smash because that series does have the stronger Nintendo ties that Mega Man and Bayonetta have and it could represent the entire franchise as a whole, in a way a Persona rep can't.

I doubt it'll be Jack Frost but most likely a protagonist.

Ehhhhhh, I think the crown symbol works well enough for Kingdom Hearts. It's the necklace that Sora wears, and the Kingdom Key's teeth, and the fade-in symbol for Hollow Bastion in KH2. It works fine, honestly a little better than the curled heart.

Mega Man's symbol really should have been the helmet though.

Also, relevant jan misali video:

View attachment 376213

I saw that video. I don't agree with some of the things he said, especially the fists/gloves symbols. His opinions about those are kind of weird.

Personally, I'm okay with all the symbols. They each make sense for the series they represent. Plus, I'm glad that the exclamation mark is the symbol for the Metal Gear series now.

 

[Speed Weed]

i intentionally chose not to reply so i'm glad someone else did. do Not **** with Opa-Opa

 

[fogbadge]

Name one notable thing about Billy Hatcher.

I'm waiting.

personally I’d pick the boss theme

 

[Idon]

But I always felt that a Shin Megami Tensei rep was more fitting for Smash because that series does have the stronger Nintendo ties that Mega Man and Bayonetta have and it could represent the entire franchise as a whole, in a way a Persona rep can't.

I doubt it'll be Jack Frost but most likely a protagonist.

Nintendo ties in general is becoming less and less valuable as a metric with every new release.

Of the new 3rd parties characters introduced in Smash Ultimate, I find it's often "they had a game on a Nintendo console that one time" and almost never "their roots with nintendo ru ndeep".

Conversely, compare that to something like Koei Tecmo, whom has iconic releases dating back to the damn NES and whose relationship is so close, they literally made several multi-million dollar games using their IPs...
And they got nothing in smash.

 

[DynamicSmasher]

With Tears of the Kingdom having dropped recently, do you guys think it'll have any influence on Link's moveset? I obviously don't think he'll get an entirely new moveset, but maybe something like his boomerang becoming a flame-emitter boomerang, for example.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Name one notable thing about Billy Hatcher.

I'm waiting.

The soundtrack is a banger.

Nintendo ties in general is becoming less and less valuable as a metric with every new release.

Of the new 3rd parties characters introduced in Smash Ultimate, I find it's often "they had a game on a Nintendo console that one time" and almost never "their roots with nintendo ru ndeep".

Conversely, compare that to something like Koei Tecmo, whom has iconic releases dating back to the damn NES and whose relationship is so close, they literally made several multi-million dollar games using their IPs...
And they got nothing in smash.

I think the Nintendo connection thing stopped being relevant with Joker.


And then it was just dead and buried with Kazuya.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Name one notable thing about Billy Hatcher.

I'm waiting.

It's proof that Sonic Team can make banger games when they're not forced to make nothing but Sonic games for their entire existance.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Nintendo ties in general is becoming less and less valuable as a metric with every new release.

Of the new 3rd parties characters introduced in Smash Ultimate, I find it's often "they had a game on a Nintendo console that one time" and almost never "their roots with nintendo ru ndeep".

Conversely, compare that to something like Koei Tecmo, whom has iconic releases dating back to the damn NES and whose relationship is so close, they literally made several multi-million dollar games using their IPs...
And they got nothing in smash.

But that's what many fans prefer since Smash is still overall a Nintendo-centric series.

Also, Koei Tecmo does have something in Smash. They have Fatal Frame.

 

[Speed Weed]

It's proof that Sonic Team can make banger games when they're not forced to make nothing but Sonic games for their entire existance.

William is nowhere near the best example of this when NiGHTS, PSO and Burning Rangers exist

 

[Hadokeyblade]

William is nowhere near the best example of this when NiGHTS, PSO and Burning Rangers exist

Man i want Sonic teams back catalogue to get some kind of modern port treatment.

I wanna play burning rangers someday

 

[WeirdChillFever]

With Tears of the Kingdom having dropped recently, do you guys think it'll have any influence on Link's moveset? I obviously don't think he'll get an entirely new moveset, but maybe something like his boomerang becoming a flame-emitter boomerang, for example.

Since Link doesn’t have the Remote Bomb Rune anymore, they will probably change the bombs into either the Time Bomb Zonai Construct or the Bomb Flower

 

[Arcanir]

Like I said. Some people. Not all. The very vocal minority.

And once again, you're letting these 'some people' guide your posts into attacking others who are not participating in the behavior. Swamp is the farthest from someone who wants Joker to be cut because 'ew Third Party', yet you're still using his post as a means to randomly snipe at strawman who have not really appeared in this discussion. That was unnecessary, and you completely derailed the discussion because of that.

You really need to calm down on this, not everyone who talks about this is out to get Ultimate, its roster, or the third parties, and you're derailing discussion in this thread by constantly falling into this trap.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

It seems to me that TCT~Phantom has a pretty pessimistic outlook on people. He seems to have a habit of projecting negative mindsets on other people for no real reason. I’m not sure what causes him to always see the worst in people but it’s getting kind of old. If people have different opinions on characters, there’s nothing wrong with that but don’t try to read people’s minds and insult them for things they never said or even really implied. I’m not really sure if there’s something going on in his personal life that causes him to lash out like that but I hope everything’s alright.

Please don't try to psychoanalyze me without directly replying to me. I know you are coming from a good place here but it feels disrespectful.

Yeah, people can be crappy. They are crappy on this site, they are crappy in real life. Some people for example threatened others to choke and in order to avoid any repercussions played it off as a joke. Other people defended out and out white supremacists on this site because they agreed with their Smash beliefs. Has it gotten better with time? Yes. This community has gotten much better at handling issues of race and sexuality for example. I still remember the times when people would make awful racist jokes towards people wanting any PoC representation in Smash.

This site has so much potential to be a safe space to discuss all the fun elements of Smash. So when I see parts of this site backsliding, of course I will be upset. Most roster cuts discussion ends up circling back to the same few users complaining about EiH or the state of the Smash roster. It's already exhausting to have to hear people while about insert third party here, insert clone character here, Corrin, and Incineroar "stealing" the spot of their most wanted or a "more deserving" character. It's even less fun when they shut down any actually fun discussion to have their cuts discussion over and over again. But it is worse when you have the history of bigotry tolerated by the "Nintendo All Star" crowd. I would rather stamp out that kind of thought now than let it become a safe haven for racists and homophobes again. Same thing goes for when individuals that have a history of making violent or sexist remarks. I will keep an eye on what they say to make sure they do not potentially hurt anyone else.

Obviously, I am just one person. But if I can push hard enough back against there being any potential breeding ground for toxicity, it can be enough to make the site more palatable when the next game is announced. Every little bit counts. If that means I have to be a little "pessimistic" when looking at cuts discussion or "assuming the worst" from people who have had transgressions in the past, so be it.

And once again, you're letting these 'some people' guide your posts into attacking others who are not participating in the behavior. Swamp is the farthest from someone who wants Joker to be cut because 'ew Third Party', yet you're still using his post as a means to randomly snipe at strawman who have not really appeared in this discussion. That was unnecessary, and you completely derailed the discussion because of that.

You really need to calm down on this, not everyone who talks about this is out to get Ultimate, its roster, or the third parties, and you're derailing discussion in this thread by constantly falling into this trap.

I would rather push this narrative down as often as possible than risk it being a breeding ground for the hurtful things I have seen it protect last time. The pro cuts, anti third party vocal minority protected people making racist jokes towards people wanting PoC in smash. They defended out and out racists because they wrote a think piece on Source Gaming. The only reason no "Nintendo All Star elitists" popped up yet is just because of timing. I have seen the same kinds of voices pop up pretty much every time this thread ends up inevitably circling back to cuts discussion. The same vocal minority pushing for a hard reboot and thanos snapping the entire roster to "purify" it and hopefully give them "their" Smash Ultimate.

I want the best for this community, and I will call out ideas and posts that could drag us back a decade. Not everyone is going to give life to those toxic elements, obviously. But enough discussion of them will make it commonplace enough that the worst aspects of the community will have a safe haven back. Lying back and doing nothing is only going to risk letting these elements become more entrenched and make it harder to call out those doing harmful things in the future. I don't want people who make sexist or racist remarks to get a free pass. I don't want those that threaten others with violence think their actions have been forgotten.

As I have always said, it is "some people". Not everyone, but some. Enough that it could lead to the same regrettable tendencies we saw post Smash 4. I don't want to go back to an era where biphobic attacks on Corrin or people make racist jokes towards people asking for our first PoC character in Smash. As much as people are crappy, most people aren't. Most people mean well and I want what's best for everyone. I believe that calling out the toxic tendencies of the past is the best method to prevent them from gaining a foothold in the future. The fact that I still see "some people" regularly have that sort of mindset or still whine about Ultimate 5 years later only reinforces that. Not everyone, but enough that it needs to be called out.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Phantom, this outlook isn't healthy. I'm not defending the actions of bigots, but this isn't how you protect people. This is just how you make more enemies. This went from zero to one hundred incredibly fast. We're not even talking about the same thing anymore.

 

[chocolatejr9]

William is nowhere near the best example of this when NiGHTS, PSO and Burning Rangers exist

sigh

Fine, you win this round. But can I at least use his game as supporting evidence to the claim?

 

[Opossum]

Please don't try to psychoanalyze me without directly replying to me. I know you are coming from a good place here but it feels disrespectful.

Yeah, people can be crappy. They are crappy on this site, they are crappy in real life. Some people for example threatened others to choke and in order to avoid any repercussions played it off as a joke. Other people defended out and out white supremacists on this site because they agreed with their Smash beliefs. Has it gotten better with time? Yes. This community has gotten much better at handling issues of race and sexuality for example. I still remember the times when people would make awful racist jokes towards people wanting any PoC representation in Smash.

This site has so much potential to be a safe space to discuss all the fun elements of Smash. So when I see parts of this site backsliding, of course I will be upset. Most roster cuts discussion ends up circling back to the same few users complaining about EiH or the state of the Smash roster. It's already exhausting to have to hear people while about insert third party here, insert clone character here, Corrin, and Incineroar "stealing" the spot of their most wanted or a "more deserving" character. It's even less fun when they shut down any actually fun discussion to have their cuts discussion over and over again. But it is worse when you have the history of bigotry tolerated by the "Nintendo All Star" crowd. I would rather stamp out that kind of thought now than let it become a safe haven for racists and homophobes again. Same thing goes for when individuals that have a history of making violent or sexist remarks. I will keep an eye on what they say to make sure they do not potentially hurt anyone else.

Obviously, I am just one person. But if I can push hard enough back against there being any potential breeding ground for toxicity, it can be enough to make the site more palatable when the next game is announced. Every little bit counts. If that means I have to be a little "pessimistic" when looking at cuts discussion or "assuming the worst" from people who have had transgressions in the past, so be it.


I would rather push this narrative down as often as possible than risk it being a breeding ground for the hurtful things I have seen it protect last time. The pro cuts, anti third party vocal minority protected people making racist jokes towards people wanting PoC in smash. They defended out and out racists because they wrote a think piece on Source Gaming. The only reason no "Nintendo All Star elitists" popped up yet is just because of timing. I have seen the same kinds of voices pop up pretty much every time this thread ends up inevitably circling back to cuts discussion. The same vocal minority pushing for a hard reboot and thanos snapping the entire roster to "purify" it and hopefully give them "their" Smash Ultimate.

I want the best for this community, and I will call out ideas and posts that could drag us back a decade. Not everyone is going to give life to those toxic elements, obviously. But enough discussion of them will make it commonplace enough that the worst aspects of the community will have a safe haven back. Lying back and doing nothing is only going to risk letting these elements become more entrenched and make it harder to call out those doing harmful things in the future. I don't want people who make sexist or racist remarks to get a free pass. I don't want those that threaten others with violence think their actions have been forgotten.

As I have always said, it is "some people". Not everyone, but some. Enough that it could lead to the same regrettable tendencies we saw post Smash 4. I don't want to go back to an era where biphobic attacks on Corrin or people make racist jokes towards people asking for our first PoC character in Smash. As much as people are crappy, most people aren't. Most people mean well and I want what's best for everyone. I believe that calling out the toxic tendencies of the past is the best method to prevent them from gaining a foothold in the future. The fact that I still see "some people" regularly have that sort of mindset or still whine about Ultimate 5 years later only reinforces that. Not everyone, but enough that it needs to be called out.

I'm sorry but it's absolutely abhorrent that you're lumping people who talk about cuts with actual ****ing bigots and alt right neonazis.

Talking about cuts, something that has been heavily hinted as an inevitability by Sakurai himself, is not something that should even be in near same conversation as folks like known MAGA-maniac and Actual Neonazi SmashChu/Spoogeymonkey or whatever he goes by now, who you alluded to in this post. Especially when, for what it's worth, a lot of people talking about cuts are some of the more inclusive people on the site.

It's incredibly easy to tell when these people use regressive dogwhistles. That's when you report them for site policy violations, as I've done many times. But to even say that enough of them push for cuts as to make cut talk as a whole an issue is a massive overreaction.

You keep saying it's not everyone, but at the same time you're implying a strong enough correlation that you felt the need to bring it up anyway. First Party Puritanism is unfortunately correlated with these types of people, yes (it's a well known thing that fascists like to appeal to the nostalgia of bygone days...look at the unfortunate number of people still flying the Confederate flag). But even if you wanted to make a direct point of causation there, there would still be a massive difference between discussing third party cuts and being a first party puritan.

It's just a big and uncomfortable leap.

 

[Soy_Man]

Like I said. Some people. Not all. The very vocal minority.

Is this vocal minority in the room with us right now?

 

[Arcanir]

I'm sorry, but I agree with Swamp, and I think you need to take a step back for a bit Phantom. I'm not going to pretend I know every single Smash fan you're encountering, but the way you're trying to 'protect' people and relate something as serious as discrimination and LGBTphobia to a topic around cuts is not healthy and honestly makes me worry if this is how you're seeing the discussion. The conversation has turned into something that is far from its original intent and is not serving anyone in its current form, and the way you're approaching it is becoming in itself toxic, both for the people engaging in it in this thread who do not engage in the hatred you talk about, and for you in how you constantly imprint this thinking onto everyone who are not even remotely guilty of it.