Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Nabbitfan730]

Phantom, going to be honest, I really couldn't care less what you find "wrong and hurtful" when you don't much creditability to be right in the first place.

A few bad apples and now suddenly if someone disagrees with character choices and discusses cuts is now a Nazi!? Anyone who doesn't bootlick Smash Bros is a predator who worships Tate!?

You really that expect to me to hear you say asinine logic and expect me take you seriously? How about you take your own advice and Wake up.

How do you compare travesties happened in the real life and compared the gravititas to online forums because of vocal minority? Even to this today, still giving such morons power because you keep letting such rule your mind.

 

[Arcanir]

I think the key thing we need to remember is that when it comes to this topic, we need to know when the best time is to intervene and call out potentially harmful behavior.

Cases like SmashChu are definitely cases where we should've been more actively against certain behavior. Even reading between the lines it was clear some of the rhetoric he spoke of overlapped with common white supremacist behavior, and even though we hated him, as a community that was a failure on our part in not doing more to stamp it out then. As Opossum said, there have been improvements on that, but there is still more work to be done and I do agree with doing our best to stamp out that behavior when we see it before it gets out of control.

However, that doesn't mean that the topic of cuts, which can be done separate of that behavior, needs to immediately be stomped out and those who participate in it grouped together with that negative line of thinking. Overall, most of the time that cuts discussion has come up, it's not bigotry that has shut down or derailed discussion, it's the pre-emptive notion that it exists or will exist in the discussion and the early action against it that has. Again, going back to Swamp's post, nothing about it or him shows any signs of that negative line of thinking and even the posts following it also did not play into it, so calling out that behavior in response to the post and discussion did more harm since it was blaming people for behavior that wasn't remotely present. It does nothing for your cause if you're calling out people who are allies to it and just want an honest discussion, and as said before it does more harm than good since it just puts you in the bad light since people can't discuss cuts as a topic without being grouped together with bigots.

Trying to defend the community from harmful behavior is a good thing, that is something we all need to do to look out for each other, but we can't jump to conclusions and immediately assume the worst about the discussion when nothing about it or the parties involved show any sign of it. That only harms the people you want to help.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

A nuanced response. I guess good things can come from this community.

Anyways my choice for upgrades are Shadow, Zero, Bomberman and Shovel Knight

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ahem. Something I want to clarify as I was around that time;

Knowing someone is a horrible person didn't matter on the Moderation side unless said horrible factors directly were among their posts. And yes, I had a major issue with the avatar used too. Basically, we couldn't take action just knowing they were a bad person. If it's kept offsite, that was that. It was a red flag to keep an eye on, of course, but they had to break our rules onsite. Keep in mind this was the old rules.

The new rules are far less lenient on creeps and such. I'm quite happy about that. As a mod during that time, I had to enforce rules based upon the official guidelines. It sucked how it worked, don't get me wrong. It wasn't a matter of "they could change", mind you, so much as we don't know if they did and it made more sense to keep an eye on in case they weren't still a horrible person. This isn't some kind of justification either, obviously. Cause hell no, it's not that simple.

That said, I agree that era was terrible how many acted. That said, I do also agree we should move on. We're past that era too(thankfully), so it's no longer necessary to bring up.

I do not legitimately remember how SmashChu was handled, I barely remember it wasn't handled how I'd prefer it. I think?

-----------------------

But back to Dr. Mario, I think a good stage would not focus entirely on a normal pill bottle. It's too small. Something more like a giant one on its side, kind of like a Ship in a Bottle, but having the viruses as platforms is a potential way to do it. It's a little odd, but it lets them do a bit more. That or maybe the physical pills instead, with the Viruses showing up to sometimes remove said platforms? Otherwise, one hazard could be them having fire/ice/electricity properties as a fun take on their overall thing. I know it's a bit out there, but this is Mario, where it's kind of odd as a franchise anyway~

I don't have any other unique ideas for it, though.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Phantom, going to be honest, I really couldn't care less what you find "wrong and hurtful" when you don't much creditability to be right in the first place.

A few bad apples and now suddenly if someone disagrees with character choices and discusses cuts is now a Nazi!? Anyone who doesn't bootlick Smash Bros is a predator who worships Tate

You really that expect to me to hear you say asinine logic and expect me take you seriously? How about you take your own advice and wake up.

How do you compare travesties happened in the real life and compared the gravititas to online forums because of vocal minority? Even to this today, still giving such morons power because you keep letting such rule your mind.

Glad to know you think people saying racist, sexist, homophobic stuff is ok.

I gave you the simplest opportunity to come out against bigotry. All you had to do was say you are against bigotry in our community. Instead you chose to respond like this.

I am sorry to say, you are a bigot. If you think that the clear bigotry in this community isn’t an issue, you are part of the problem. You clearly either lack the reading comprehension to understand that bigotry is an issue, or the empathy to care. I gave you the smallest ask to say people spewing racist and homophobic remarks were wrong. You couldn’t even do that.

ill give you one more chance. Say that the bigotry entrenched in our community is wrong. Just say that. It’s simple. Or don’t. It’s your choice.

Prove to me you aren’t a spiteful bigot. The ball is in your court. All you need to do is say you don’t support the bigotry in this community. It s a small ask if you aren’t a bigot and you think it’s an issue.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I wish Xiaomu from Cross was a Mii Costume.
Even better if Mii Mage is in, it would fit very well.

 

[CannonStreak]

I wish Xiaomu from Cross was a Mii Costume.
Even better if Mii Mage is in, it would fit very well.

I would personally like a Mii Mage character. I think that could work well. Not sure if this is a problem, maybe not so, I think it would be harder to do with how magic works, meaning there are many different spells to go with, compared to just sword slashes, projectile shots and fist swings. I could be wrong, though.

And what has this topic become with the bigotry thing?

 

[Soy_Man]

Glad to know you think people saying racist, sexist, homophobic stuff is ok.

I gave you the simplest opportunity to come out against bigotry. All you had to do was say you are against bigotry in our community. Instead you chose to respond like this.

I am sorry to say, you are a bigot. If you think that the clear bigotry in this community isn’t an issue, you are part of the problem. You clearly either lack the reading comprehension to understand that bigotry is an issue, or the empathy to care. I gave you the smallest ask to say people spewing racist and homophobic remarks were wrong. You couldn’t even do that.

ill give you one more chance. Say that the bigotry entrenched in our community is wrong. Just say that. It’s simple. Or don’t. It’s your choice.

Prove to me you aren’t a spiteful bigot. The ball is in your court. All you need to do is say you don’t support the bigotry in this community. It s a small ask if you aren’t a bigot and you think it’s an issue.

Stunning and brave. Anyways, what do you guys think of cutting minmin?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Anyways, what do you guys think of cutting minmin?

Keep Spring Stadium and don't add any other ARMS fighter.

 

[CannonStreak]

Keep Spring Stadium and don't add any other ARMS fighter.

I'd just add Spring Man IF Minmin was cut, but that is just me.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I am sorry to say, you are a bigot. If you think that the clear bigotry in this community isn’t an issue, you are part of the problem. You clearly either lack the reading comprehension to understand that bigotry is an issue, or the empathy to care. I

Clearly my earlier posts would've shown the clear opposite but you can believe all the mystic delusions and fantasies all you like.

I understand. It's 2023. We are in recession. Times are tough and you clearly need that check so you trying to save face.

Why have real and interesting discussions of media these days when you can just call anyone a bigot for not a liking a piece of plastic.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Stunning and brave.

I see you don't know how to read the room. It's okay. Learning second languages is hard.

 

[HyperSomari64]

It's okay. Learning second languages is hard.

El Inglés es mi segundo idioma.
Yo puede hablar Español. Esa es mi lengua principal.

 

[CannonStreak]

I would never say bigotry is okay, but starting discussions on threads where it is unrelated and no one said anything about it is most definitely not okay too. I mean, wouldn't calling others a bigot be name calling, and isn't name calling something not allowed?

 

[Opossum]

I would never say bigotry is okay, but starting discussions on threads where it is unrelated and no one said anything about it is most definitely not okay too. I mean, wouldn't calling others a bigot be name calling, and isn't name calling something not allowed?

This is the exact wrong message to take away from this.

 

[FazDude]

Let me preface this by saying I believe that bigotry has zero place in the Smash community. On this site specifically, from what I’ve read, the mod team could have done better to prevent bigotry in the past, and even today, there’s been some instances in which I wish they had been quicker to act. Overall, I think the site’s in a way better place regarding all that, but it is still an issue.

That said, I do not follow the logic here at all. Liking the idea of, or even considering, cuts makes someone a Nazi? Yes, we’ve had a few unsavory folks with that kind of mentality, but giving them power by putting everyone who discusses cuts in the same camp as them is the exact opposite of what I’d want in this situation. Bigotry is bad, but an opinion about the funny Nintendo fighting game shouldn’t lead to one instantly accused of being a bigot. Not a fan of people critiquing this mindset getting the same treatment, either.

 

[CannonStreak]

This is the exact wrong message to take away from this.

Huh? What do you mean?

 

[Opossum]

Huh? What do you mean?

Calling a bigot a bigot is not name calling. They're not people to be defended. They need to be driven out.

Refusing to call out bigotry because it's a Smash forum is also wrong. The place doesn't matter as bigotry should not be accepted anywhere.

The issue here was correlating bigotry with something that wasn't in itself bigoted. That's the takeaway. Not that you shouldn't call out bigotry when it DOES appear.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Stunning and brave. Anyways, what do you guys think of cutting minmin?

Cool, glad to know you are a bigot.

Let it be known I gave you the smallest ask, and you still chose to double down and treat the bigotry in the community as a joke.

Clearly my earlier posts would've shown the opposite but you can believe all the mystic delusions and fantasies you like.

I understand. It's 2023. We are in recession and you clearly need that check so you trying to save face.

Why have real and interesting discussion when you can just call anyone a bigot for not a liking a piece of plastic

Once again, thank you for proving that you are a bigot.

You are the exact thing I have been warning about. Someone so dug in for their tribe for Smash speculation, they can't even recognize the harmfulness of their actions. The bigotry that has been in this community, amplified in no small part due to some people protecting someone in their tribe, is an issue. It has been an issue. The fact people still will defend out and out homphobes and transphobes in a thread like this is an issue. The fact people tried to rehabilitate a known predator now peddling sexist ideology is an issue. The fact people made racial jokes about who our first PoC character was is an issue. It is not much of an ask to say that it is bad.

Instead, you choose to double down. Glad to know you support all the bigotry in the community and the harm it causes. I gave you the smallest ask, to let you prove you aren't the exact kind of person I was arguing against. Now I can see you are. You are the kind of person so dug in, you would defend a SmashChu 2.0 just because they were in your tribe. You would not think twice about the harm bigotry causes in this community. It doesn't matter to you clearly.

I would never say bigotry is okay, but starting discussions on threads where it is unrelated and no one said anything about it is most definitely not okay too. I mean, wouldn't calling others a bigot be name calling, and isn't name calling something not allowed?

If someone isn't willing to stand up to the clear bigotry in this community, they are a bigot. Saying that racism, sexism, or homophobia is wrong is such a small ask. If you chose to be spiteful and double down, you are a bigot even if people point out what you are doing is harmful.

 

[CannonStreak]

Calling a bigot a bigot is not name calling. They're not people to be defended. They need to be driven out.

Refusing to call out bigotry because it's a Smash forum is also wrong. The place doesn't matter as bigotry should not be accepted anywhere.

The issue here was correlating bigotry with something that wasn't in itself bigoted. That's the takeaway. Not that you shouldn't call out bigotry when it DOES appear.

Well, that is only why I was trying to make sure.

Nothing more.

But while I do agree, I was more so referring to that one user (no offense to them) calling someone a bigot, when they are not. I mean, it probably does not change anything, but that is all I was trying to ask about.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Well, that is only why I was trying to make sure.

Nothing more.

But while I do agree, I was more so referring to that one user (no offense to them) calling someone a bigot, when they are not. I mean, it probably does not change anything, but that is all I was trying to ask about.

If you have the opportunity to call out bigotry and you choose to double down, you are a bigot plain as day. I don't give a rat's *** if you have some vendetta against whoever, its something as simple as saying that the racism, sexism, and homophobia still present in the community are bad.

Once is an earnest mistake. Choosing not to denounce it when called out is doubling down and choosing to be a bigot. There's and old german saying: "If there's a table with 1 Nazi and 10 people talking to them, you have 11 Nazis." Tolerating bigotry is one step removed from actual bigotry, especially when you have the easy chance to not do so.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

So anyways.

Which assist trophies do you like to see upgraded for Smash 6?

Shadow, Zero, Shovel and Bomber are mine

 

[FazDude]

So anyways.

Which assist trophies do you like to see upgraded?

Waluigi, the Squid Sisters, the Ghost Gang, & Knuckles primarily.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well, maybe name calling was NOT the right word in the broad sense, but, as to what I was trying to say, I don't think calling someone a bigot when they are not acting like it, and that there was not much or anything about bigotry on the last few pages, I do see why inaccurately calling them a bigot when they are not can be insulting.

As for calling out others by calling them bigots, that is indeed another story. Not to try to say this user is wrong for doing so in the following, at all, but...

You seem to have a history of being REALLY against bigots, do you, Opossum ?

So anyways.

Which assist trophies do you like to see upgraded for Smash 6?

Shadow, Zero, Shovel and Bomber are mine

Waluigi, maybe Shadow or Zero.

 

[HyperSomari64]

So anyways.

Which assist trophies do you like to see upgraded for Smash 6?

Shadow, Zero, Shovel and Bomber are mine

Γ

 

[Nabbitfan730]

On that note, i wonder if Splatoon would better represented if it was the idols playable instead of the normal inklings. They are usually the face of each subsequent game and more definable.

 

[FazDude]

On that note, i wonder if Splatoon would better represented if it was the idols playable instead of the normal inklings. They are usually the face of each subsequent game.

Eh, I’d veer more towards playable Inklings if given a choice between the two, but I think I’d prefer the idols being playable over DJ Octavio (not that I wouldn’t be ecstatic with him, either)

 

[CannonStreak]

I would also like to see Dillion from Dillon's Rolling Western get upgraded, but I know that is a fat chance, since his company, well, you know...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So anyways.

Which assist trophies do you like to see upgraded for Smash 6?

Shadow, Zero, Shovel and Bomber are mine

Shadow and Shovel knight.

I dont particularly care for Shovel knight the game but i know tons of people love it so i would be fine with it in smash honestly.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

On that note, i wonder if Splatoon would better represented if it was the idols playable instead of the normal inklings. They are usually the face of each subsequent game and more definable.

Hot take, I despise the way the Inklings were handled in Smash. Technically I was always at least somewhat against their Smash portrayal, but when I finally adapted to Splatoon after they didn't show up in 4, I was hoping they'd be more inspired. But the generic ink-flinging squid I was dreading would get into the last game's DLC got included instead. Splatoon has so much style, so many good characters, and you go with the worst options. Yes, I believe in Octoling superiority, why do you ask?

 

[Laniv]

So anyways.

Which assist trophies do you like to see upgraded for Smash 6?

Shadow, Zero, Shovel and Bomber are mine

Bomberman, Knuckles, Isaac, Sablé Prince, and Tiki are my picks

Lakitu as well, if we're counting former Assist Trophies

 

[CannonStreak]

Bomberman, Knuckles, Isaac, Sablé Prince, and Tiki are my picks

Lakitu as well, if we're counting former Assist Trophies

Oh, Bomberman too! I forgot him for some reason. I would love to see him playable in the next Smash Bros. as well!

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Let me preface this by saying I believe that bigotry has zero place in the Smash community. On this site specifically, from what I’ve read, the mod team could have done better to prevent bigotry in the past, and even today, there’s been some instances in which I wish they had been quicker to act. Overall, I think the site’s in a way better place regarding all that, but it is still an issue.

That said, I do not follow the logic here at all. Liking the idea of, or even considering, cuts makes someone a Nazi? Yes, we’ve had a few unsavory folks with that kind of mentality, but giving them power by putting everyone who discusses cuts in the same camp as them is the exact opposite of what I’d want in this situation. Bigotry is bad, but an opinion about the funny Nintendo fighting game shouldn’t lead to one instantly accused of being a bigot. Not a fan of people critiquing this mindset getting the same treatment, either.

It’s not the opinion that makes you a bigot. It’s the refusal to even acknowledge the history of bigotry.

SmashChu wouldn’t have gotten the foothold he did if people in the community didn’t protect him. Just because he wrote a source gaming article saying Cloud and Corrin should be cut people defended him. Everyone is saying that’s bad. The problem is that he was a beast created in that post Smash 4 environment, which rn there are similarities too. I have stressed throughout this that not everyone on this site it a bigot: I’d like to think most people on the site aren’t. But there was enough toleration for bigotry specifically on that Nintendo All Stars/Purge the undesirables crowd that SmashChu stayed around.

My issue is not that it was the pro cuts crowd that supported him: if it was say the Crash support thread that was backing him you can bet I’d be icier towards Crash, whose in my top 5 most wanted characters. It’s the fact they supported him at all. Enough people decided they were ok with him he got to stick around longer than he should have.

What I want right now is for people to make sure that doesn’t ever happen again. Even if cuts talk is something that sticks around, I want to never have to risk such bigotry getting entrenched in there again. I’d prefer if it was due to people standing up and pushing against it. But I’ve seen already there’s enough tribalism that people might just support “their team” and choose to back a SmashChu 2.0 in spite of the damage it can cause. I’m going to be icy towards cuts talk so long as there’s a chance that a SmachChu 2.0 could cause even more damage if they embrace him, no matter how hated they are by most of the community.

 

[Perkilator]

So anyways, which characters do you wish got into the series? For me:

Spoiler: 64

• Bowser
• Dedede
• Meowth
• Mewtwo
• Marth

Spoiler: Melee

• Wario
• Diddy Kong
• A de-cloned Ganondorf
• Scizor
• Ayumi Tachibana

Spoiler: Brawl

• Lyn
• Tetra
• Totodile, Grovyle and Charizard as Pokémon Trainer’s team
• DeMille

Spoiler: Sm4sh

• Paper Mario
• Takamaru
• Rayman
• Azura

Spoiler: Ultimate

• Bandana Waddle Dee
• Crash Bandicoot
• Estelle Bright
• Dr. Eggman
• Ring Fit Trainee

 

[CannonStreak]

It’s not the opinion that makes you a bigot. It’s the refusal to even acknowledge the history of bigotry.

SmashChu wouldn’t have gotten the foothold he did if people in the community didn’t protect him. Just because he wrote a source gaming article saying Cloud and Corrin should be cut people defended him. Everyone is saying that’s bad. The problem is that he was a beast created in that post Smash 4 environment, which rn there are similarities too. I have stressed throughout this that not everyone on this site it a bigot: I’d like to think most people on the site aren’t. But there was enough toleration for bigotry specifically on that Nintendo All Stars/Purge the undesirables crowd that SmashChu stayed around.

My issue is not that it was the pro cuts crowd that supported him: if it was say the Crash support thread that was backing him you can bet I’d be icier towards Crash, whose in my top 5 most wanted characters. It’s the fact they supported him at all. Enough people decided they were ok with him he got to stick around longer than he should have.

What I want right now is for people to make sure that doesn’t ever happen again. Even if cuts talk is something that sticks around, I want to never have to risk such bigotry getting entrenched in there again. I’d prefer if it was due to people standing up and pushing against it. But I’ve seen already there’s enough tribalism that people might just support “their team” and choose to back a SmashChu 2.0 in spite of the damage it can cause. I’m going to be icy towards cuts talk so long as there’s a chance that a SmachChu 2.0 could cause even more damage if they embrace him, no matter how hated they are by most of the community.

Ugh, can you PLEASE let this go? It is not like you are doing anything good by persisting on this. Thank you.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Hot take, I despise the way the Inklings were handled in Smash. Technically I was always at least somewhat against their Smash portrayal, but when I finally adapted to Splatoon after they didn't show up in 4, I was hoping they'd be more inspired. But the generic ink-flinging squid I was dreading would get into the last game's DLC got included instead. Splatoon has so much style, so many good characters, and you go with the worst options. Yes, I believe in Octoling superiority, why do you ask?

Aesthetically or Gameplay wise because for latter, ink-flinging is what they do.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Ugh, can you PLEASE let this go? It is not like you are doing anything good by persisting on this. Thank you.

So you want me to let go of the fact there is bigotry in the community?

You want to sweep the fact there is a history of racism, sexism, homophobia, and other assorted bigotry under the rug?

This is a serious topic. We shouldn’t “let it go”. Defending and sweeping the problems of the past and today under the rug is completely unacceptable.

 

[Speed Weed]

I'm one of the, like, 3 people here who really want Akira promoted. Takamaru and Bomberman would also be nice

 

[Gengar84]

Can we not personally attack people here and call them names please? This is beyond ridiculous at this point. No one here is being bigoted from what I’ve seen. Throwing out personal insults just because they disagree with the way you’re acting and refusing to go along with your game is more toxic than anything else I’ve seen here in a while. Just drop it already.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Ugh, can you PLEASE let this go? It is not like you are doing anything good by persisting on this. Thank you.

you could just ignore. Igronace is a choice after all. Let him be.