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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

ZephyrZ

But.....DRAGONS
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I'm betting this is not only for the DLC, Side Order, but also for Smash.
Just like how Marie and Pearl got into Smash!

Sarcams aside we don't even know how far off the next Smash is. There's a chance Splatoon 4 will even be out by then. I really wouldn't read too far into this.

Besides, as much as I love Deep Cut we all know the Squid Sisters will probably get in first.
 

chinkuru

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2023
Messages
68
So anyways, which characters do you wish got into the series? For me:
  • Bowser
  • Dedede
  • Meowth
  • Mewtwo
  • Marth
  • Wario
  • Diddy Kong
  • A de-cloned Ganondorf
  • Scizor
  • Ayumi Tachibana
  • Lyn
  • Tetra
  • Totodile, Grovyle and Charizard as Pokémon Trainer’s team
  • DeMille
  • Paper Mario
  • Takamaru
  • Rayman
  • Azura
  • Bandana Waddle Dee
  • Crash Bandicoot
  • Estelle Bright
  • Dr. Eggman
  • Ring Fit Trainee


  • Meowth
  • Wario
  • Isaac
  • Diddy & Dixie Kong
  • Tingle
  • Agumon
  • Marco Rossi
  • Takamaru
  • Toad
  • Tom Nook
 
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Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,580
Yeah cel shading is neat
I thought I didn’t like it at first when I saw Wind Waker for the first time but I think it was more the character design I didn’t care for as much rather than the graphical style. A lot of modern cel shaded games look great and Wind Waker has aged better than many other games at the time.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,654
Location
Scotland
I thought I didn’t like it at first when I saw Wind Waker for the first time but I think it was more the character design I didn’t care for as much rather than the graphical style. A lot of modern cel shaded games look great and Wind Waker has aged better than many other games at the time.
for me it was WW and SS. I know a lot of people say links mouth looks weird in the latter but I really liked the watercolour inspired aesthetic
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,580
It’s crazy what cel shading can do for a model. Some people have ported over Guilty Gears characters into Ultimate but without the shader and the characters look really off without it. The models themselves aren’t actually anything special but the shader makes them look amazing and possibly the most impressive I’ve seen in gaming.
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
8,403
It’s crazy what cel shading can do for a model. Some people have ported over Guilty Gears characters into Ultimate but without the shader and the characters look really off without it. The models themselves aren’t actually anything special but the shader makes them look amazing and possibly the most impressive I’ve seen in gaming.
And it ages SO WELL. GGXrd is a freaking PS3 game and it STILL looks incredible.

Frankly, any Japanese 2D fighting game that ISN'T using the ArcSys cel shading techniques is ****ing up.

Lookin' at you, all of SNK!
 
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Wonder Smash

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2013
Messages
2,193
Since people are posting links to their victory themes, I should do the same thing with mines.

Hayabusa - A sample from Unbreakable Determination from Ninja Gaiden (NES).
Kunio and Riki - Mission Complete theme from Renegade (most recent remix is from Super Dodgeball Advance)
Doom Slayer - Intermission theme from Doom 1993 (constantly loops like both Cloud and Joker's themes)
Billy and Jimmy - Mission Complete theme from Double Dragon 2 (remix taken directly from Double Dragon Neon)

It’s crazy what cel shading can do for a model. Some people have ported over Guilty Gears characters into Ultimate but without the shader and the characters look really off without it. The models themselves aren’t actually anything special but the shader makes them look amazing and possibly the most impressive I’ve seen in gaming.
They actually ported Guilty Gear characters into Ultimate? I didn't know that.
 
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Hypercat-Z

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
1,717
What if the next Smash Bros. is gonna have in game the same graphic of the commercial of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,580
Since people are posting links to their victory themes, I should do the same thing with mines.

Hayabusa - A sample from Unbreakable Determination from Ninja Gaiden (NES).
Kunio and Riki - Mission Complete theme from Renegade (most recent remix is from Super Dodgeball Advance)
Doom Slayer - Intermission theme from Doom 1993 (constantly loops like both Cloud and Joker's themes)
Billy and Jimmy - Mission Complete theme from Double Dragon 2 (remix taken directly from Double Dragon Neon)



They actually ported Guilty Gear characters into Ultimate? I didn't know that.
Yeah, right now they’re simple model swaps but there are at least 5 or 6 GG characters in the game. One of them has a proper shader and looks great (Bridget) and the others have no shader and look a bit flat. Someone is also making a complete custom moveset for Potemkin that looks really impressive so far but still seems to be in its early stages. I haven’t really learned how to use modded movesets yet but that one is really tempting.

 
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PeridotGX

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
9,017
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That Distant Shore
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Denoma5280
So anyways, which characters do you wish got into the series? For me:
  • Bowser
  • Dedede
  • Meowth
  • Mewtwo
  • Marth
  • Wario
  • Diddy Kong
  • A de-cloned Ganondorf
  • Scizor
  • Ayumi Tachibana
  • Lyn
  • Tetra
  • Totodile, Grovyle and Charizard as Pokémon Trainer’s team
  • DeMille
  • Paper Mario
  • Takamaru
  • Rayman
  • Azura
  • Bandana Waddle Dee
  • Crash Bandicoot
  • Estelle Bright
  • Dr. Eggman
  • Ring Fit Trainee
Here's a roster for a redone 64 and Melee I did. I might come up with a roster for the latter games eventually.
64 Redone.png

  • No cuts! I probably wouldn't have added Ness, Falcon, or Jigglypuff if I was creating the game from scratch, but I can't imagine the series without any of them so they stay.
  • Three new characters are added in this scenario (let's say Sakurai got the idea a little earlier and had more dev time).
  • I also declare that Nintendo bought Rare in this time, meaning that Banjo is first party.
Melee Redone.png

  • In addition to all 15 characters from the last game making their return, there are two additional slots (this is because nintendo realized not having a proper disc drive was a stupid decision and delayed the Gamecube a half year, extending Melee's development)
  • I purposely added Zelda in 64 so that Sheik wouldn't exist. Instead, Ganon and Ganondorf exist as the transformation character in this game.
  • Wario and Dedede are added a bit ahead of schedule. I considered Diddy instead of Dedede, but I figured adding a non-Marioverse character would be worth more.
  • I cut Pichu, Dr. Mario, and Young Link, because I'm not huge on having different version of the same character most of the time. This, along with Ganondorf being promoted to a unique slot, means four clones needed to be added. I decided on Daisy for Peach, Birdo for Yoshi, Paula for Ness, and Togepi for Jigglypuff.
  • Lastly, because Rare is still in house, I added Joanna Dark because of how successful Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were.
 

MrMcNuts

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
830
Trust me, you don't wanna know. So um... any more news on that Rayman DLC?
We got some new official Renders of Rayman after the trailer, can't remember if they've been shared here but:
20230802_142341.jpg

20230817_145232.jpg

If we do get anymore news I'd suspect maybe one more teaser at GamesCom.
With Origins and Legends being some of my favorites I’m pretty keen on this one.
Followed by this looping at the results.
Oh yeah that would be great too. Honestly would love any of these options, though the YEAH! victory will always be my number 1 haha
 

Wonder Smash

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2013
Messages
2,193
Yeah, right now they’re simple model swaps but there are at least 5 or 6 GG characters in the game. One of them has a proper shader and looks great (Bridget) and the others have no shader and look a bit flat. Someone is also making a complete custom moveset for Potemkin that looks really impressive so far but still seems to be in its early stages. I haven’t really learned how to use modded movesets yet but that one is really tempting.

Man, that looks awesome!

I wish somebody modded all of my MWs.
 

smashkirby

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
6,980
Location
Smashville
Yeah, let's move on. Such as nonsensical conversation.

Who should be upgraded?
Isaac
Saki Amamiya
Ray MK III
Takamaru
Barbara
Dr. Wright
Excitebiker
Kururin
Andy
Jill
Lyndis
Samurai Goroh
Starfy
Waluigi
Dillon
Dr. Kawashima
Ghirahim
Midna
Prince Sable
Sheriff
Skull Kid
Arcade Bunny
Black Knight
Krystal
Nikki
Shovel Knight
Spring Man
Sukapon
Tiki
Yuri Kozukata
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,580
Man, that looks awesome!

I wish somebody modded all of my MWs.
Good news is that Ryu Hyabusa is ported over both Sheik and Cloud. Maybe some of your other favorites are already in or will be soon.

I just signed up for Xecho88’s Patreon and he’ll make one mod of your choice per month for $10 along with being able to vote and nominate for polls and download all his mods. The character I chose for the month was The Undertaker over Simon. I was originally going to request Rash over Captain Falcon but he had just finished that mod by the time I asked and released it a week later.

My poll suggestions haven’t won yet but two were the second most voted. I nominated Bill Rizer over Samus but he just got beat by Benson Bee from Bee Movie over Ridley. Next, I nominated Vincent Valentine over Joker but it wasn’t particularly close and Kylo Ren over Cloud won. I’m currently nominating Vi over Little Mac but Wonder Woman over Lucina just pulled ahead. Bill and Vi had the lead on the first day but got passed on the second. Vincent was never winning.
 
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TheLamerGamer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
431
I doubt they'll significantly change the art style in the near future, the ultimate one is a very good halfway point between realistic and cartoony, and fits every character in the game really well. What I would personally love is promo art from famous video game artists. I know Nomura did some already:



Along with some other artists, but there are loads I'd love to see smash art from. Including:

Ayami Kojima:


Kazuma Kaneko (Who recently returned after being missing for 6 years to do... NFTs... At least he implied he's going to work on games again.)

(This is some of my favourite art of his that wouldn't just immediately get me banned for being NSFW)

Shigenori Soejima:


For example, it would be amazing to have them work together on the box-art, making that a crossover in its own right. (That would probably be a nightmare, especially to make it look cohesive, but still).
 
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Perkilator

Smash Legend
Writing Team
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
11,407
Location
The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
I doubt they'll significantly change the art style in the near future, the ultimate one is a very good halfway point between realistic and cartoony, and fits every character in the game really well. What I would personally love is promo art from famous video game artists. I know Nomura did some already:



Along with some other artists, but there are loads I'd love to see smash art from. Including:

Ayami Kojima:


Kazuma Kaneko (Who recently returned after being missing for 6 years to do... NFTs... At least he implied he's going to work on games again.)

(This is some of my favourite art of his that wouldn't just immediately get me banned for being NSFW)

Shigenori Soejima:


For example, it would be amazing to have them work together on the box-art, making that a crossover in its own right. (That would probably be a nightmare, especially to make it look cohesive, but still).
They absolutely should’ve done for Ultimate what they did for Sm4sh; a piece of artwork for every newcomer. In Ultimate, only a few characters have this kind of artwork.
 

TheLamerGamer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
431
They absolutely should’ve done for Ultimate what they did for Sm4sh; a piece of artwork for every newcomer. In Ultimate, only a few characters have this kind of artwork.
I've just remembered Soejima actually did some for Ultimate, but it was just Joker on his own. I know Min Min and maybe inkling also got them? Either way, I 100% agree, every time some did show up I was super happy.
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,382
Good news is that Ryu Hyabusa is ported over both Sheik and Cloud. Maybe some of your other favorites are already in or will be soon.

I just signed up for Xecho88’s Patreon and he’ll make one mod of your choice per month for $10 along with being able to vote and nominate for polls and download all his mods. The character I chose for the month was The Undertaker over Simon. I was originally going to request Rash over Captain Falcon but he had just finished that mod by the time I asked and released it a week later.

My poll suggestions haven’t won yet but two were the second most voted. I nominated Bill Rizer over Samus but he just got beat by Benson Bee from Bee Movie over Ridley. Next, I nominated Vincent Valentine over Joker but it wasn’t particularly close and Kylo Ren over Cloud won. I’m currently nominating Vi over Little Mac but Wonder Woman over Lucina just pulled ahead. Bill and Vi had the lead on the first day but got passed on the second. Vincent was never winning.
Reading this reminded me of this masterpiece:


Let me know when Tingle gets modded in.
 

Speed Weed

Smash Master
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
3,730
Location
Portugal
Switch FC
SW-1814-1029-3514
To be honest, I do find the incessant ArcSys hype to be kind of annoying.

Like, yeah, they make good games with great visuals, but I'm tired of people acting like they're the only good fighting game developer ever and suggesting every single hypothetical fighting game either be made by them or have their artstyle. Just because they make games with pretty visuals doesn't mean they should monopolize the genre. Variety is good. Do you really want a scene where every single game looks the same? And it's not even like other recent JP fighting games are ugly at all, SF6's visual style got a ton of acclaim and the more recent SNK fighters starting with SamSho are quite good-looking too. I think this constant push for every fighting game to be like this shows a lack of knowledge and respect for the wider fighting game scene, and I feel it often comes from people who, like, don't really care about FGs that much/only have a passing interest in them, but who have internalized in their heads from the vague knowledge they have that ArcSys is the Cool Kids' Fighting Game Studio and everyone else sucks, and so they want fighting games to be homogenized because they're convinced there is One Single Correct Way of making fighting games. The constant ASW worship from these kinds of people is incredibly annoying, disrespectful and most of all pretentious, and I'm so sick of it.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,580
To be honest, I do find the incessant ArcSys hype to be kind of annoying.

Like, yeah, they make good games with great visuals, but I'm tired of people acting like they're the only good fighting game developer ever and suggesting every single hypothetical fighting game either be made by them or have their artstyle. Just because they make games with pretty visuals doesn't mean they should monopolize the genre. Variety is good. Do you really want a scene where every single game looks the same? And it's not even like other recent JP fighting games are ugly at all, SF6's visual style got a ton of acclaim and the more recent SNK fighters starting with SamSho are quite good-looking too. I think this constant push for every fighting game to be like this shows a lack of knowledge and respect for the wider fighting game scene, and I feel it often comes from people who, like, don't really care about FGs that much/only have a passing interest in them, but who have internalized in their heads from the vague knowledge they have that ArcSys is the Cool Kids' Fighting Game Studio and everyone else sucks, and so they want fighting games to be homogenized because they're convinced there is One Single Correct Way of making fighting games. The constant ASW worship from these kinds of people is incredibly annoying, disrespectful and most of all pretentious, and I'm so sick of it.
To be honest, I don’t really even play ArcSys’ games but I just love their visual style. My favorite fighting game franchise after Smash is Killer Instinct. I also really like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, and Soul Calibur although I haven’t really been super into SF or MK since the SNES. My top three most wanted fighting game reps are Fulgore, Sub-Zero, and Guile although I’d be hyped for Nightmare or Astaroth from Soul Calibur too. Sol Badguy would be fun but he’s below the others mentioned.
 

Soy_Man

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 13, 2018
Messages
162
I feel like Guilty Gear Xrd's animation and character models are too resource intensive and intricate for a game with Ultimate's roster size. Moreso than games with ""realistic"" artstyles. If the next Smash game has a similar roster size to Ultimate, it's not gonna look like Guilty Gear. Maybe it could look something like Project L, or the new Fatal Fury, if they wanted to take the cel shading route. They'd still have to remodel like 70 characters tho.
 
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Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,580
I feel like Guilty Gear Xrd's animation and character models are too resource intensive and intricate for a game with Ultimate's roster size. Moreso than games with ""realistic"" artstyles. If the next Smash game has a similar roster size to Ultimate, it's not gonna look like Guilty Gear. Maybe it could look something like Project L, or the new Fatal Fury, if they wanted to take the cel shading route. They'd still have to remodel like 70 characters tho.
Project L looks just as good as Guilty Gear in my opinion. The Guilty Gear models don’t seem to be particularly high poly and run fine without slowdown when ported into Ultimate. I think what really makes them look impressive is the shader they use rather than the models themselves. The Bridget port seems to have a similar shader to the GG games and still runs fine.

1692326216287.jpeg
 
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Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
10,819
Capcom should let Arc system works use the Darkstalkers IP, i think their signature asthetic would be the only way the Darkstalkers characters would look good in a modern fighter.

They absolutely should’ve done for Ultimate what they did for Sm4sh; a piece of artwork for every newcomer. In Ultimate, only a few characters have this kind of artwork.
Man, that would have been so cool, imagine the Sora one looking like a Kingdom hearts cover art but Mario characters instead of the Mickey mouse gang.
 

Soy_Man

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 13, 2018
Messages
162
Project L looks just as good as Guilty Gear in my opinion.
I didn't mean to say that Project L looks worse, just that it looks different (and less expensive to make).
The Guilty Gear models don’t seem to be particularly high poly
Watch this video on 2x speed. TL;DR Guilty Gear Xrd is a technical marvel.
I think what really makes them look impressive is the shader they use rather than the models themselves.
I couldn't disagree more. GGs look, for me atleast, is defined by it's intricate animation and the way the character models are made. It's art style is completely distinct from any other game that also uses cel shading.
The Bridget port seems to have a similar shader to the GG games and still runs fine.
I worded it poorly, but by "resource intensive" I was talking about development resources. I forgot that phrase is used to describe like computation power or whatever, so my mistake.
 
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Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,580
I didn't mean to say that Project L looks worse, just that it looks different (and less expensive to make).

Watch this video on 2x speed. TL;DR Guilty Gear Xrd is a technical marvel.

I couldn't disagree more. GGs look, for me atleast, is defined by it's unique animation and the way the character models are made. It's art style is completely distinct from any other game that also uses cel shading.

I worded it poorly, but by "resource intensive" I was talking about development resources. I forgot that phrase is used to describe like computation power or whatever, so my mistake.
No worries. I was just talking about the graphics themselves and wasn’t really taking animation into account. I agree that the games have some really impressive animation as well but I feel it could be simplified if they needed to in order for one of their fighters to appear in Smash. As far as adopting a similar style in Smash itself, I think it would still look great keeping Ultimate’s animation style and just updating the models and shaders.

Here’s an example of a GG character ported over to Ultimate without the shader:

1692325807300.jpeg

1692325838185.jpeg


Still cool but something just feels off without the shader.
 
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Opossum

Thread Title Changer
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I've just remembered Soejima actually did some for Ultimate, but it was just Joker on his own. I know Min Min and maybe inkling also got them? Either way, I 100% agree, every time some did show up I was super happy.
Kazuya actually got one as well!
15_kazart01.jpg
 

Wonder Smash

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2013
Messages
2,193
For the Demi-Fiend, I'd want a Joker situation with victory themes from across the series.

The main one would be the Nocturne level up theme (and yes, it is this compressed in both the game and soundtrack):


And then the rest would be dependant on the song playing in the match. A couple of my favourites are:

I gotta admit, that SMTV Level Up theme is very catchy. I tend to listen to that quite often myself.
 
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chinkuru

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2023
Messages
68
I doubt they'll significantly change the art style in the near future, the ultimate one is a very good halfway point between realistic and cartoony, and fits every character in the game really well. What I would personally love is promo art from famous video game artists. I know Nomura did some already:



Along with some other artists, but there are loads I'd love to see smash art from. Including:

Ayami Kojima:


Kazuma Kaneko (Who recently returned after being missing for 6 years to do... NFTs... At least he implied he's going to work on games again.)

(This is some of my favourite art of his that wouldn't just immediately get me banned for being NSFW)

Shigenori Soejima:


For example, it would be amazing to have them work together on the box-art, making that a crossover in its own right. (That would probably be a nightmare, especially to make it look cohesive, but still).
I miss an art by Yoki Shinkawa to commemorate the return of Snake
 
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