Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

LiveStudioAudience · Jul 27, 2023

The more time goes on, the more the period between Bowser Jr & Roslina's debut (5 years) feels less and less significant. Snake and Mega Man are five years older than Kirby and the latter certainly doesn't feel that much newer by comparison.

Nabbitfan730 · Jul 27, 2023

Momotsuki said:
To be quite honest I find myself really partial to the less faithful portrayals of characters in Smash, particularly legacy ones like Bowser (and most of the pre-Brawl Mario series fighters actually, like how Mario is a hardass and Luigi is straight-up insane rather than just a bit of a coward) that wouldn't fly had they debuted later on. I dunno, I like that these fighters feel more like vessels for a madman's headcanon, haha. Which, granted, is the same reason they're contentious.

I know we're talking more about gameplay here, but it just reminded me of this and by the time I realized that this was a tangent I was halfway through the ramble.

Bowser and Mario are faithful tho. Bowser, as the King of the Koopas, A Warlord and Tyrant, should be as menacing and beastly as he is in Smash. It's just the Modern Titles woobify him away too much. Like, he took over a galaxy and going to destroy it in his image. My only issue is his animalistic sounds make him less fearsome than Kenny James. Now he's putting the BOW in Bowser. Just put him as voice and Bowser is honestly perfect.

Mario, believe it or not, traits are he takes competition quite seriously. From Commercials, Box Art of Sports, and RPGs, he usually has a poker or very stern face on him so him being "hardass". He was even willing to go toe-to-toe with a kid for implying that Mario would be less capable than Geno for the quest in SMRPGs.

Sometimes when people say characters especially Mario characters or Mega-Man aren't faithful, I have to wonder if they are actually the games they are talking about or have only interacted on a surface level.

TCT~Phantom · Jul 27, 2023

Honestly the only unique Mario character I would say is even close to the danger zone is Plant.

Plant is a divisive gag character at the end of the day. Love him or hate him, that is what it is. It is a creator's challenge: could a Smash character be created out of anything? Could a Smash character surprise everyone? Just so my personal biases are known, while I think Plant succeeds in some ways, the character feels like it comes short in others on a design level. I feel like if the team had to assign priority to the unique Mario reps, Plant would almost certainly be dead last. The Melee quartet of Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser are staying no matter what at this point. Bowser Jr and Rosalina both have been in Smash longer and have more love thrown towards them in the Mario series, likely due to them being...characters.

Plant is a novelty pick at the end of the day, for better and for worse. I doubt it would be a priority over the established characters in the game. Heck, we can even infer Plant itself was a lower priority newcomer in Ultimate. Unlike every other DLC character, Plant had a Palutena's Guidance planned out. It also was the only one that was ready to show before the game went gold in the Final Smash Direct. It also helps explain why Plant sticks out as a DLC newcomer. It does not have the berth of content that you would expect with a FP character or even a song like Corrin did. I can see it easily being lower priority again.

Personally, I doubt it would even be on the chopping block unless we are going to go harder on cuts. I think that in the event of cuts, I would estimate around a dozen given how Smash has handled its cuts up to this point: lower priority characters or characters they had issues outside of time with. I could see Plant surviving over other characters even in that scenario.

Momotsuki · Jul 27, 2023

Plant is honestly a super fun fighter (and competitively speaking also woefully underrated.) I genuinely can't think of a better ledgetrapper in the entire roster. Granted, that's pretty much all they can do, but they're VERY good at it, and staying in one spot and causing mischief is on-brand for the character. It'd be a shame to see them go because they really are unique and fun.

Nabbitfan730 · Jul 27, 2023

Yeah, it's a bitter to swallow that Plant is a lower priority. Despite the constant irony-toxicity and ragebait the community tried to it to be, He was one of favorites even among the hype picks.

I agree on Sakurai's philosophy on making a unique that wasn't a generic protag. It was an enemy, has cool, non-human, beast mascot like design and had a unique. He stands out quite easily in terms being a fighter alone.

If Plant truly gets cut, I hope Sakurai uses the idea to include another enemy mook in his place. Maybe a Heartless, E.M.M.I or a Guardian. A Garo maybe.

Guynamednelson · Jul 27, 2023

Nabbitfan730 said:
Mega-Man aren't faithful

Someone actually says this?

Momotsuki · Jul 27, 2023

Nabbitfan730 said:
Yeah, it's a bitter to swallow that Plant is a lower priority. Despite the constant irony-toxicity and ragebait the community tried to it to be, He was one of favorites even among the hype picks.

I agree on Sakurai's philosophy on making a unique that wasn't a generic protag. It was an enemy, has cool, non-human, beast mascot like design and had a unique. He stands out quite easily in terms being a fighter alone.

If Plant truly gets cut, I hope Sakurai uses the idea to include another enemy mook in his place. Maybe a Heartless, E.M.M.I or a Guardian. A Garo maybe.

Okay but like - a Guardian is a character I've wanted as a fighter for years, and 100% unironically too. Make them absolutely huge, give them all sorts of insane tools, and like, a really cool spring-jump, and an insanely long yet armored and damaging jumpsquat. Deceptively fast ground speed (though lackluster aerial drift) and completely unmatched stage control and intimidation, all balanced out by being an absolute combo buffet.

Nabbitfan730 · Jul 27, 2023

Momotsuki said:
Plant is honestly a super fun fighter (and competitively speaking also woefully underrated.)

Had to do double take and an few eyebrow raisers when I saw his tier placement. No way he was that low. He should be at least Middle Tier.

Guynamednelson said:
Someone actually says this?

Yeah. It's actually a quite a common complaint actually.

Momotsuki · Jul 27, 2023

Nabbitfan730 said:
Had to do double take and an few eyebrow raisers when I saw his tier placement. No way he was that low. He should be at least Middle Tier.

It's usually just copium (as somebody who co-mains Dr. Mario I'd know) but I think Plant is genuinely a case of "underexplored and underdeveloped meta, would otherwise be much higher." It stuck out to me as well for just feeling flat-out wrong.

Brother AJ · Jul 27, 2023

Nabbitfan730 said:
Yeah, it's a bitter to swallow that Plant is a lower priority. Despite the constant irony-toxicity and ragebait the community tried to it to be, He was one of favorites even among the hype picks.

I agree on Sakurai's philosophy on making a unique that wasn't a generic protag. It was an enemy, has cool, non-human, beast mascot like design and had a unique. He stands out quite easily in terms being a fighter alone.

If Plant truly gets cut, I hope Sakurai uses the idea to include another enemy mook in his place. Maybe a Heartless, E.M.M.I or a Guardian. A Garo maybe.

Plus on the Smash banner they're watering a Pikmin! How could you cut this!?

TheLamerGamer · Jul 27, 2023

So, I wanted to do this a day or two ago but didn't have time, but I have a question for you all.

If you could give any series the SNK treatment and give it 50 songs, what series would you pick, and which songs? You don't have to include songs already in smash if you'd prefer something else as well.

I've done Persona, and tried to be objective for the most important / best fitting songs from each game, but literally none of my favourite songs ended up in the list since there are other far more popular songs available. (Also if it was up to me there would be no songs from the PSP port of 1).

I've ended up going with 10 songs from each title (P2 is split into 6 from IS and 4 from EP, although Maya's theme appears in both so who knows).

I'll include the song link in the title, and then if I think it should have a remix I'll include a link to an example in brackets (although most of the links are just to the most likely version now).

(Thanks to

Perkilator for the vague idea of this)

Guynamednelson · Jul 27, 2023

Brother AJ said:
Plus on the Smash banner they're watering a Pikmin! How could you cut this!?

View attachment 375192

You fool, he's watering a red one! Only the blue ones can handle water!

Brother AJ · Jul 27, 2023

Guynamednelson said:
You fool, he's watering a red one! Only the blue ones can handle water!

Oh crap you're right! I just realized that! STAWP! :laugh:

Swamp Sensei · Jul 27, 2023

Brother AJ said:
Plus on the Smash banner they're watering a Pikmin! How could you cut this!?

View attachment 375192

That's a red Pikmin. They don't survive in water.

Piranha Plant! You're a murderer!

EDIT: I was too slow.

Poor Pikmin.

LiveStudioAudience · Jul 27, 2023

In what's good news for Pikmin's future, Pikmin 4’s first week sales in Japan were more than the previous three games combined It sold over 400,000 physical units in its first week to the point of even outdoing FFXVI's current total physical sales (in Japan) despite the latter being out for a month now.

Switch Effect definitely applying here. Fingers crossed there's at least a few more Nintendo IP's (Donkey Kong?) that can also benefit from it before the console's lifespan is finished.

Will be interesting to see the elements from Pikmin 4 that end up in the next Smash.

SPEN18 · Jul 27, 2023

Going by Brawl/4, over a dozen newcomers would be a "standard" amount. So with that ballpark for newcomers, a dozen or so cuts would basically be keeping the roster the same number as base Ult + both rounds of DLC, maybe even bigger depending on the exact newcomer count. I'm gonna say that's probably not realistic at least for base roster.

Perkilator · Jul 27, 2023

TheLamerGamer said:
So, I wanted to do this a day or two ago but didn't have time, but I have a question for you all.

If you could give any series the SNK treatment and give it 50 songs, what series would you pick, and which songs? You don't have to include songs already in smash if you'd prefer something else as well.

I've done Persona, and tried to be objective for the most important / best fitting songs from each game, but literally none of my favourite songs ended up in the list since there are other far more popular songs available. (Also if it was up to me there would be no songs from the PSP port of 1).

I've ended up going with 10 songs from each title (P2 is split into 6 from IS and 4 from EP, although Maya's theme appears in both so who knows).

I'll include the song link in the title, and then if I think it should have a remix I'll include a link to an example in brackets (although most of the links are just to the most likely version now).

(Thanks to Perkilator for the vague idea of this)

Thanks, man! Anyway, time to do Sonic the justice he deserves.

Green Hill Zone
Chemical Plant Zone
Death Egg Robot
Palmtree Panic (Present)
Stardust Speedway (Bad Future) (JP)
Stardust Speedway (Bad Future) (US)
Hydrocity Zone
Big Arms
Sky Sanctuary Zone
Doomsday Zone
Unknown from M.E.
Chaos 0, 2, 4
Run Through the Speed Highway
The Air...for Windy Valley
Mt. Red: A Symbol of Thrill
E.G.G.M.A.N.
That's the Way I Like It
A Ghost's Pumpkin Soup
Vengeance is Mine
Rhythm and Balance
For True Story
Supporting Me
Seaside Hill / Ocean Palace
Bullet Station
Egg Emperor
What I'm Made Of
Right There, Ride On
Back 2 Back
Wrapped in Black
I Am (All of Me)
Sky Troops
Sand Ruins
Crisis City
Dreams of an Absolution
Solaris (Phase 2)
Endless Possibility
Vs. Egg Dragoon
Tropical Resort
Planet Wisp
Nega Wisp Armor
Honeycomb Highway
The Deadly Six Theme
Sonic Mania Medley
Tabloid Jargon
Rogues Gallery
Hi-Spec Robo Go!
Built to Rule / Steel Cortex
Egg Gate
Moonlight Battlefield (Aqua Road)
Network Terminal

chocolatejr9 · Jul 27, 2023

LiveStudioAudience said:
In what's good news for Pikmin's future, Pikmin 4’s first week sales in Japan were more than the previous three games combined It sold over 400,000 physical units in its first week to the point of even outdoing FFXVI's current total physical sales (in Japan) despite the latter being out for a month now.

Switch Effect definitely applying here. Fingers crossed there's at least a few more Nintendo IP's (Donkey Kong?) that can also benefit from it before the console's lifespan is finished.

Will be interesting to see the elements from Pikmin 4 that end up in the next Smash.

Can confirm, Pikmin 4 is really really good.

I nominate Oatchi as the next Pikmin rep.

TCT~Phantom · Jul 27, 2023

Nabbitfan730 said:
Yeah, it's a bitter to swallow that Plant is a lower priority. Despite the constant irony-toxicity and ragebait the community tried to it to be, He was one of favorites even among the hype picks.

I agree on Sakurai's philosophy on making a unique that wasn't a generic protag. It was an enemy, has cool, non-human, beast mascot like design and had a unique. He stands out quite easily in terms being a fighter alone.

If Plant truly gets cut, I hope Sakurai uses the idea to include another enemy mook in his place. Maybe a Heartless, E.M.M.I or a Guardian. A Garo maybe.

I’d prefer whether or not plant gets cut, Sakurai or whoever goes in a different direction for a weird off the wall pick. I just feel like doing a mook right after Plant won’t have the same impact. Is it going to be as wacky to see EMMI or a Salmonoid in Smash now that we have plant? Maybe? Maybe not?

I can’t say what they would go with, maybe something silly that isn’t a video game character. You could make a LABO or Hanafuda character. Or maybe you choose a random Pokémon. Or maybe it’s something really dumb for the purposes of surprising people? It’s gonna be hard to say. I just think that if they do a mook, that itch has been scratched.

Hadokeyblade · Jul 27, 2023

Nabbitfan730 said:
Sometimes when people say characters especially Mario characters or Mega-Man aren't faithful, I have to wonder if they are actually the games they are talking about or have only interacted on a surface level.

Megaman is faithful from a gameplay angle but as far as his personality?
I feel like Smash did him dirty, they leaned heavily on the fact that he's a robot instead of the actual canonical personality he has in the games, they dont even have him talk and that bothers me.

SPEN18 · Jul 27, 2023

In principle I'm against the idea of picking a character just for the purpose of being surprising. That said, there are plenty of characters that the fanbase doesn't expect at all who I think would make great merit-based additions while also bringing the elements of diversity and unconventional moveset that typically characterize this kind of pick. Of course, this also just means that there is no reason to make a big reach into random/joke character territory just to have a strong surprise factor.
Duck Hunt was a perfect "surprising" pick; it had the robust sales and massive notoriety to justify it despite being sufficiently unexpected at the time. Not saying it necessarily has to be an NES retro rep (though it could be), and not every pick has to reach DH's level of fame, but something along the lines of "great legacy, but unexpected because of non-relevance, genre, and/or body type, etc."

HyperSomari64 · Jul 27, 2023

Hadokeyblade said:
Megaman is faithful from a gameplay angle but as far as his personality?
I feel like Smash did him dirty, they leaned heavily on the fact that he's a robot instead of the actual canonical personality he has in the games, they dont even have him talk and that bothers me.

Maybe because Sakurai didn't played Mega Man Powered Up or Mega Man 11.
That or the fear of Mega Man having his girly voice from 8.

Sucumbio · Jul 27, 2023

HyperSomari64 said:
Maybe because Sakurai didn't played Mega Man Powered Up or Mega Man 11.
That or the fear of Mega Man having his girly voice from 8.

"I'm Grenade Man!"

8 has the best worst voice acting. It's my favorite game of the series, honestly.

Brother AJ · Jul 27, 2023

SPEN18 said:
Going by Brawl/4, over a dozen newcomers would be a "standard" amount. So with that ballpark for newcomers, a dozen or so cuts would basically be keeping the roster the same number as base Ult + both rounds of DLC, maybe even bigger depending on the exact newcomer count. I'm gonna say that's probably not realistic at least for base roster.

I keep thinking about Sakurai saying he'd have to shrink the roster for the next game. So if we wanted the "standard" number of newcomers they'd probably have to cut around 20. I'm hoping against this...

Sucumbio · Jul 27, 2023

A roster so large and with every character having a fan base it's really tough to even formulate an idea on who won't come back. By sheer volume there's really no way to even use other fg series as a litmus. My thoughts are that series with heavy rep like other than Mario so Pokemon and FE will see their rosters change not necessarily shrink. Mario I think will actually grow. The other series with 2 or more reps should honestly stay the same. Some one-offs could come back as DLC, or not at all. And hopefully some series get additional characters. I know the sentiment was "it's not going to be as big" but I think that's what anyone would say coming off such a huge game. Unless the next smash is something crazy like a 3d platformer or something, I could actually see them producing another 80+ character roster.

Zerp · Jul 27, 2023

LiveStudioAudience said:
In what's good news for Pikmin's future, Pikmin 4’s first week sales in Japan were more than the previous three games combined It sold over 400,000 physical units in its first week to the point of even outdoing FFXVI's current total physical sales (in Japan) despite the latter being out for a month now.

Switch Effect definitely applying here. Fingers crossed there's at least a few more Nintendo IP's (Donkey Kong?) that can also benefit from it before the console's lifespan is finished.

Definitely the Switch effect although I think the first two games re-releasing helped a lot. Saw a lot of people finally give Pikmin a try and fall in love really quickly. And quite frankly, that's awesome, those games have been slept on by people for waaaaaay too long lol.

Will be interesting to see the elements from Pikmin 4 that end up in the next Smash.

It also introduces what's pretty much the perfect character to represent Pikmin. We now have a captain character that doubles as a weird creature, I think that's a pretty big deal. Honestly, I think Oatchi's a legit contender for the next roster regardless of how big/small it is, wouldn't be shocked at all if he got in.

Idon · Jul 27, 2023

TheLamerGamer said:
So, I wanted to do this a day or two ago but didn't have time, but I have a question for you all.

If you could give any series the SNK treatment and give it 50 songs, what series would you pick, and which songs? You don't have to include songs already in smash if you'd prefer something else as well.

I've done Persona, and tried to be objective for the most important / best fitting songs from each game, but literally none of my favourite songs ended up in the list since there are other far more popular songs available. (Also if it was up to me there would be no songs from the PSP port of 1).

I've ended up going with 10 songs from each title (P2 is split into 6 from IS and 4 from EP, although Maya's theme appears in both so who knows).

I'll include the song link in the title, and then if I think it should have a remix I'll include a link to an example in brackets (although most of the links are just to the most likely version now).

(Thanks to Perkilator for the vague idea of this)

Normal Battle - Megami Ibunroku Persona (Remix (From Persona 5 Strikers))
Deadline - Megami Ibunroku Persona (Remix (From Persona 2 Eternal Punishment PSP))
Transitory Butterfly - Megami Ibunroku Persona
Persona + Awakening - Megami Ibunroku Persona (Remix (From Persona 20th Anniversary))
The Snow Queen - Megami Ibunroku Persona (Remix (From Persona 3 FES))
SEBEC - Megami Ibunroku Persona
Kama Palace - Megami Ibunroku Persona
Aria of the Soul - Megami Ibunroku Persona (Remix (From Super Smash Bros. Ultimate))
A Lone Prayer - Persona (PSP)
Bloody Destiny - Persona (PSP)
Opening - Persona 2 Innocent Sin (Remix (From Persona 2 Innocent Sin Mini Soundtrack))
Normal Battle - Persona 2 Innocent Sin (Remix (From Persona 2 Innocent Sin PSP))
Boss Battle - Persona 2 Innocent Sin (Remix (From Persona 2 Innocent Sin PSP))
Knights of the Holy Spear - Persona 2 Innocent Sin
Unbreakable Tie - Persona 2 Innocent Sin (PSP)
Opening - Persona 2 Eternal Punishment (Remix (From Persona 2 Eternal Punishment PSP))
Normal Battle - Persona 2 Eternal Punishment (Remix (From Persona 2 Eternal Punishment PSP))
Boss Battle - Persona 2 Eternal Punishment (Remix (From Persona 2 Eternal Punishment PSP))
EX Final Battle - Persona 2 Eternal Punishment (Remix (From Persona 2 Eternal Punishment PSP))
Maya's Theme - Persona 2 Innocent Sin & Persona 2 Eternal Punishment (Remix (From Persona 2 Eternal Punishment Special Soundtrack)) (THIS ONE IS REALLY GOOD)
Burn My Dread - Persona 3
Mass Destruction (P3 + P3FES Version) - Persona 3 & Persona 3 FES
Master of Shadow - Persona 3
Master of Tartarus - Persona 3
Battle Hymn of the Soul - Persona 3
Burn My Dread - Last Battle - Persona 3
Heartful Cry - Persona 3 FES
Soul Phrase - Persona 3 Portable
Wiping All Out - Persona 3 Portable
Danger Zone -Persona 3 Portable
Pursuing My True Self - Persona 4
Reach out to the Truth - Persona 4
I'll Face Myself -Battle- -Persona 4
Heaven - Persona 4 (Remix (From Persona Live Band))
A New World Fool - Persona 4
The Almighty - Persona 4
The Fog - Persona 4
Shadow World - Persona 4 Golden
Time to Make History - Persona 4 Golden
Wake Up, Get Up, Get Out There - Persona 5
Last Surprise - Persona 5
Beneath the Mask - Persona 5 (Remix (From Super Smash Bros Ultimate))
Life Will Change - Persona 5
Blooming Villain - Persona 5
Rivers in the Desert - Persona 5
Jaldabaoth - Persona 5
Colors Flying High - Persona 5 Royal
Take Over - Persona 5 Royal
I Believe - Persona 5 Royal
Throw Away Your Mask - Persona 5 Royal

And then for the different victory themes:

Persona 1 - Persona (Persona 3 FES Remix)
Persona 2 Innocent Sin - Battle Results (P2ISPSP)
Persona 2 Eternal Punishment - Battle Results (P2EPPSP)
Persona 3 - After the Battle
Persona 4 - Period
Persona 5 - Triumph

Of the series represented in Smash, I would say Final Fantasy for sure.

I understand the vast majority of the general gaming populance only cares about FF7 which is why it has 2 characters in a series of 16 mainline games, but that really doesn't explain why the soundtrack is so limited in scope as well. It's a damn shame that with a series as wide in musical scores as FF, they chose to not represent a large portion of it.

Meanwhile, their own crossover has near a hundred songs from across the series as a whole packed into it.

SPEN18 · Jul 27, 2023

Brother AJ said:
I keep thinking about Sakurai saying he'd have to shrink the roster for the next game. So if we wanted the "standard" number of newcomers they'd probably have to cut around 20. I'm hoping against this...

It's been said many times, but we already have Smash 4 as a baseline for what can be achieved in terms of roster size in a fully new, ground-up game. Which means I fully expect over 50 characters in base, and they may even be able to beef it up fairly considerably beyond that since it'll have been over a decade since that game.

But IMO the best way to handle this is NOT to do the "bring back as many vets as possible" rostering strategy but rather take a long and intent look at how they can create a seriously compelling batch of newcomers, stages, and singleplayer contents to compensate for a slightly smaller roster, and then truly, seriously weigh each vet's worth relative to all that potential new content. This should be achievable without losing the core of the roster.

Hadokeyblade · Jul 27, 2023

TheLamerGamer said:
So, I wanted to do this a day or two ago but didn't have time, but I have a question for you all.

If you could give any series the SNK treatment and give it 50 songs, what series would you pick, and which songs? You don't have to include songs already in smash if you'd prefer something else as well.

I've done Persona, and tried to be objective for the most important / best fitting songs from each game, but literally none of my favourite songs ended up in the list since there are other far more popular songs available. (Also if it was up to me there would be no songs from the PSP port of 1).

I've ended up going with 10 songs from each title (P2 is split into 6 from IS and 4 from EP, although Maya's theme appears in both so who knows).

I'll include the song link in the title, and then if I think it should have a remix I'll include a link to an example in brackets (although most of the links are just to the most likely version now).

I'm going to list 40 songs for Kingdom hearts since we already have 10 in the actual game.

1. Simple and Clean Planet-b mix (Kingdom hearts)
2. Sanctuary (Kingdom hearts 2)
3. Face your fears (Kingdom hearts 3)
4. 13th reflection (Kingdom hearts chain of memories)
5. Working together (Kingdom hearts 2)
6. Working together (Kingdom hearts 3)
7. Sinister sundown (Kingdom hearts chain of memories)
8. Another side another story -Battle version- (Kingdom hearts 358 days)
9. The other promise (Kingdom hearts 2)
10. Rage awakened (Kingdom hearts 2)
11. Arabian dream (Kingdom hearts)
12. Rowdy rumble (Kingdom hearts 2)
13. The world that never was Battle theme (Kingdom hearts 2)
14. Vector to the heavens (Kingdom hearts 358 days)
15. Dark Impetus (Kingdom hearts birth by sleep)
16. Olympus battle theme (Kingdom hearts)
17. Unbreakable chains (Kingdom hearts 3)
18. Wave of darkness (Kingdom hearts final chapter prologue)
19. Hazardous highway (Kingdom hearts 2)
20. The encounter (Kingdom hearts 2)
21. Neverland scherzo (Kingdom hearts birth by sleep)
22. Extreme encounter (Kingdom hearts birth by sleep)
23. The tumbling (Kingdom hearts birth by sleep)
24. Vim and vigor (Kingdom hearts 2)
25. Simple of clean ray of light (Kingdom hearts final chapter prologue)
26. Old friends old rivals (Kingdom hearts 2)
27. Anger Unchained (Kingdom hearts 3)
28. Toy box jam (kingdom hearts 3)
29. Miracle on ice (Kingdom hearts 3)
30. Flags of fury (Kingdom hearts 3)
31. Majestic wings (Kingdom hearts 3DS)
32. Rinzler recompiled (Kingdom hearts 3DS)
33. Deep drop (Kingdom hearts 3DS)
34. Untamable (Kingdom hearts 3DS)
35. Theme of Riku (Kingdom hearts 2)
36. Theme of Sora (Kingdom hearts 2)
37. Thermosphere Kingdom hearts 3 version (Einhander)
38. Calling -Kingdom mix- (The world ends with you)
39. Twister -Kingdom mix- (The world ends with you)
40. One winged angel Kingdom hearts 2 version (Final fantasy 7)

Trying to remember these individual songs from KH's 20 year history made realize that KH2 has one of the best OST's in gaming and makes it even more annoying they went with KH1's ost in the real game lol

Just plucking a couple as examples, here's the battle theme for when you play as Timeless river Sora running around in an old black and white cartoon

And here's the encounter, the theme that plays when you fight the Disney villains

Wonder Smash · Jul 27, 2023

Hadokeyblade said:
Megaman is faithful from a gameplay angle but as far as his personality?
I feel like Smash did him dirty, they leaned heavily on the fact that he's a robot instead of the actual canonical personality he has in the games, they dont even have him talk and that bothers me.

Sakurai said that maintaining Mega Man's NES design was a top priority. So since he didn't talk in the NES games, he doesn't talk in Smash either.

Personally, I like how he's modeled after his NES design and really don't mind him not having a voice. It truly gives off the feel that he's taken straight from those games.

DarthEnderX · Jul 27, 2023

LiveStudioAudience said:
Honestly the more time goes on, the more the period between Bowser Jr & Roslina's debut (5 years) feels less and less significant. Snake and Mega Man are five years older than Kirby and the latter certainly doesn't feel that much newer by comparison.

BoJu and Ros are still separated by a console generation though. Which is the REAL way we measure time.

smashkirby · Jul 28, 2023

I know a couple of us have been advocating for Oatchi to join Smash, but would any of us have an issue with Pikmin 4's 'custom character' riding him in battle?

I've seen folks refer to her as either 'Pom' or 'Lisa', and I have to admit, she IS pretty adorable.

Brother AJ · Jul 28, 2023

I'm wondering what the general consensus is here about what you want/expect from Smash 6 roster-wise?

The main scenarios I see discussed are:

1. Add on to Ultimate with tweeks.
2. Keep majority of the roster, but make cuts similar to Brawl/4.
3. Full reboot with lots of cuts, and more of a focus on mechanics/modes.
4. Something I haven't considered?

For me it's:

Want: Add on to Ultimate
Expect: Brawl/4 style sequel

I think Sakurai is going to shrink the roster like he said, but I also think he'll want to make as few cuts as possible. I'm really anxious for the future regardless...

SPEN18 · Jul 28, 2023

smashkirby said:
I know a couple of us have been advocating for Oatchi to join Smash, but would any of us have an issue with Pikmin 4's 'custom character' riding him in battle?

I've seen folks refer to her as either 'Pom' or 'Lisa', and I have to admit, she IS pretty adorable.

Hilariously enough, it would be one way to get a mounted character without the issues of scale that a horse or something would potentially bring.

But idk, if the set is using Oatchi for the vast majority of the moves then IMO may as well just let him be solo. But we could also get a moveset based on the Pom/Lisa protag where Oatchi just pops out for a few specific moves. My opinion may change as I see more of the game, though.

Either way, shoot, Ninty, just give the character a default name, please!

Hadokeyblade · Jul 28, 2023

smashkirby said:
I know a couple of us have been advocating for Oatchi to join Smash, but would any of us have an issue with Pikmin 4's 'custom character' riding him in battle?

I've seen folks refer to her as either 'Pom' or 'Lisa', and I have to admit, she IS pretty adorable.

The new player character with Oatchi and the Pikmin types smash doesnt already use might be a decent idea for smash.

DarthEnderX · Jul 28, 2023

TheLamerGamer said:
If you could give any series the SNK treatment and give it 50 songs, what series would you pick, and which songs?

Oof...tough choice.

First pick woulda been Castlevania. But that already got GREAT music representation.

Bit of a tossup between Final Fantasy and Street Fighter. Gonna go with Final Fantasy.

I have a Square playlist, I think 50 of those are from FF. I'm not gonna link them all individually.

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RodNutTakin · Jul 28, 2023

Brother AJ said:
I'm wondering what the general consensus is here about what you want/expect from Smash 6 roster-wise?

The main scenarios I see discussed are:

1. Add on to Ultimate with tweeks.
2. Keep majority of the roster, but make cuts similar to Brawl/4.
3. Full reboot with lots of cuts, and more of a focus on mechanics/modes.
4. Something I haven't considered?

For me it's:

Want: Add on to Ultimate
Expect: Brawl/4 style sequel

I think Sakurai is going to shrink the roster like he said, but I also think he'll want to make as few cuts as possible. I'm really anxious for the future regardless...

I have touched on this before, but 2 is what I expect to happen. Start out with something around 60-70 unique fighters in base, and let a stronger post-launch cycle of additional content build the lineup back up to a number that could very well outdo Ultimate's count when everything's said and done. Smash 4 finished with a count of 55 fighters when excluding the last-minute clones, around 20 more than what Brawl (with delays to add characters, mind you) released with, and this is with losing 5 fighters from the jump from Wii to Wii U/3DS as well.
Assuming the majority of third parties play nicely (which seems reasonable considering Ultimate was nothing but good publicity for their properties), a lot of the fighter and stage content in Ultimate (particularly the latter) feels like it was done to be future-proofed for the next game. Having the entire series cast up to this point puts a lot of characters in a good position when it comes to devtime and resources, as this means that the majority of fighters would be easy to reimplement into the next installment should Namco and Sora work on it again, compared to a case like bringing Roy or Mewtwo from Melee to Wii U/3DS, where it took as much effort as making a brand new fighter did.
I imagine that it'd definitely be helpful for the devs. Most of the devtime spent on veterans can focus on reworking only the characters that really need updating, while everyone else would only need the equivalent of a balance patch to stay on top of things; this would most certainly allow much more time and resources to be put into other content (namely new stages and new/returning modes), which would address the one thing that Ultimate came short on in places.
Ultimate is a great game when it comes to its regular Smash modes, and I feel like that regardless of whether Ultimate DX happens or not, that excellent versus mode game is the perfect baseline to expand on it properly next time in a way that lets the developers be able to focus on modes and features outside of Smash and Spirits. It'd be wasteful to start from scratch and not use all the resources and assets that Ultimate made readily available from a developer's standpoint.

Geno Boost · Jul 28, 2023

Swamp Sensei said:
Honestly, I think it's a different reason.

I think it's just a distaste for newer things, regardless of how popular, notable or well received they are.

Bowser Jr. is older and is thus more valued.

Both reasonings are bad and flawed. At least I hope it isn't sexism.

Not sexism bruh I did Already mentions characters like

are different case because they represent whole franchise/piece of game history that lacks a fighter therefore creativity is needed for them to represent them and I am here talking about Mario series which the series are rich with “fighters” why go with the one who doesn’t fight? To me I don’t see the difference between and picking Rosalina over other Mario characters that can fight and choosing :202:

over any other Pokémon that can actually fight and yes both are popular in the series

DynamicSmasher · Jul 28, 2023

Geno Boost said:
Not sexism bruh I did Already mentions characters like are different case because they represent whole franchise/piece of game history that lacks a fighter therefore creativity is needed for them to represent them and I am here talking about Mario series which the series are rich with “fighters” why go with the one who doesn’t fight? To me I don’t see the difference between and picking Rosalina over other Mario characters that can fight and choosing over any other Pokémon that can actually fight and yes both are popular in the series

The difference is that Wobbufet is just another Pokemon, which would have to compete with Scizor/Umbreon/Ampharos and Pichu as the representative for gen 2, while Rosalina is the Big Woman on Observatory. If you wanted to represent Mario Galaxy, it's her or like... Lubba. That's not to mention the fact that while she isn't seen throwing hands, it's pretty clear that she's pretty powerful, with all of the forcefield and telekinesis business.

Perkilator · Jul 28, 2023

Sakurai talks about Brawl again in his latest video.

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