Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Ivander]

The who now? Read this as face painting lol!

Basically, it had a mode in the JP version where much like Pokemon Amie from X/Y, you could 'interact' with the characters from Fates. Which involve first inviting them than touching them. And considering some of the characters' ages, as well as a couple characters with their badonkers exposing quite a bit, you can see why the touching part was "mostly" removed from the West version.
In the West version, you could still invite them and talk to them, but the touching part was completely removed aside from two moments that involve your spouse. One moment is finding them asleep and Corrin decides to touch their face while they're asleep. The other is when your spouse is still feeling flushed from having a bath and you can blow into the mic to cool them off.

Now regardless of which version, you can choose to not use the feature at all, as it only gives a little bit of support points between Corrin and that character. It doesn't provide anything else and battling side-by-side provides much more support points. But still, to some degree, it felt like an attempt at doing Pokemon Amie and taking advantage of the 3D, except considering it's people instead of Pokemon, you can see why some people were creeped out.

 

[SPEN18]

Watching ranking videos it seems Gaiden is a popular pick to dump on by virtue of its changes from the original (despite many of those changes returning or becoming staple apparently).

I assume you mean the original Gaiden, not the remake? Yes, that one is one of the odder ducks in the series but I don't really see much hate for it; it's just not many people's favorite even out of the NES/SNES-era games, FE 1-5. I think the remake definitely improved people's appreciation for the original, at least, though the remake itself is still pretty much the lowest-profile mainline release in the post-Awakening era.

 

[fogbadge]

Basically, it had a mode in the JP version where much like Pokemon Amie from X/Y, you could 'interact' with the characters from Fates. Which involve first inviting them than touching them. And considering some of the characters' ages, as well as a couple characters with their badonkers exposing quite a bit, you can see why the touching part was "mostly" removed from the West version.
In the West version, you could still invite them and talk to them, but the touching part was completely removed aside from two moments that involve your spouse. One moment is finding them asleep and Corrin decides to touch their face while they're asleep. The other is when your spouse is still feeling flushed from having a bath and you can blow into the mic to cool them off.

Now regardless of which version, you can choose to not use the feature at all, as it only gives a little bit of support points between Corrin and that character. It doesn't provide anything else and battling side-by-side provides much more support points. But still, to some degree, it felt like an attempt at doing Pokemon Amie and taking advantage of the 3D, except considering it's people instead of Pokemon, you can see why some people were creeped out.

excuse me while i try and find a picture showing my reaction

edit: nope no luck

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Corrin, Byleth, Alear-- they're all shallow self-inserts that the world absolutely revolves around. Every other character exists to tell you what a special boy/girl you are. And because you're supposed to project onto them, they're written to be as agreeable and uninteresting as possible-- when they aren't totally silent.

This is why I loved Warriors three hopes so much. Well aside from the very boring Warriors gameplay, Shez was an actual cool protagonist and people act normally around him instead of acting like they just saw an idols.

Anyway so if we're to have any more avatars in Smash who would they be? What makes the avatar character "work?" Should they even exist?

I usually don't mind too much avatar in Smash but I usually would prefer something else if there's other possibility. For example, Steve I think is a fine pick because there's really nothing else that could rep Minecraft the way he do. On the other hand, I think that Isabelle was a better pick than Villager overall, but again I don't mind too much Villager.

As for future avatar, I think Akira Howard would be fun from Astral chain. I wouldn't mind the Astral chain avatar in Smash because it still have a pretty cool basic design and it also has a voice because of the twins gimmick. Also Akira isn't meant to be super generic. I would have a harder time to accept very generic avatar in Smash such as a Sims. Personally I wasn't really a fan of having the Hunter from Monster hunter for this reason. But things like Akira Howard or Commander Shepard for example I could more accept. Not sure if the difference is clear.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Its funny to go back to the 2015 E3 Presentation and see that Fates, even with all its controversies within the fandom proper was still one of the few games highlighted that didn't end up being either a low point for its particular series or a forgettable meh release. Given its competition was the likes of Star Fox Zero, Tri Force Heroes, Federation Force, amiibo Festival and Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash?

Its one of the few times I can say (even despite not really being a fan of either) that thank god the likes of Fire Emblem and Xenoblade Chronicles (X in this case) were there to hold up the Direct.

 

[Perkilator]

Anyway, here’s the Alear-related content I cooked up.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Its funny to go back to the 2015 E3 Presentation and see that Fates, even with all its controversies within the fandom proper was still one of the few games highlighted that didn't end up being either a low point for its particular series or a forgettable meh release. Given its competition was the likes of Star Fox Zero, Tri Force Heroes, Federation Force, amiibo Festival and Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash?

Its one of the few times I can say (even despite not really being a fan of either) that thank god the likes of Fire Emblem and Xenoblade Chronicles (X in this case) were there to hold up the Direct.

X is still one of my favorite RPGs ever. The games scale is second to none and was an absolute technical marvel for the Wii U. That and Woolly World are like the only Wii U ports still needed.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Or find some way to add the Overworld theme from Dragon Quest:

Their music choices for DQ were very limited.

Battle Theme from the 4 games who's alts were chosen for Hero.
Overworld themes from the 4 games who's alts were chosen for Hero(even though they picked the WRONG Overworld theme for DQ4. Choosing Wagon Wheels March instead of Homeland).

 

[DynamicSmasher]

Their music choices for DQ were very limited.

Battle Theme from the 4 games who's alts were chosen for Hero.
Overworld themes from the 4 games who's alts were chosen for Hero(even though they picked the WRONG Overworld theme for DQ4. Choosing Wagon Wheels March instead of Homeland).

Wasn't there some issues with the rights thanks to the Dragon Quest composer? I've only played DQ9, so I'm not super familiar with any of the other soundtracks.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Their music choices for DQ were very limited.

Battle Theme from the 4 games who's alts were chosen for Hero.
Overworld themes from the 4 games who's alts were chosen for Hero(even though they picked the WRONG Overworld theme for DQ4. Choosing Wagon Wheels March instead of Homeland).

But isn't the the original Overworld theme is like a recurring theme in the series? Because there was also a version of it in Dragon Quest 3.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I wonder why tho? Did SNK sell lots of neogeos in S America or something?

The exact opposite actually, piracy runs rampant in Latin America when it comes to games and SNK's arcade cabinets were notoriously easy to pirate. Which lead to tons of places like restaurants, bars or supermarkets having at least one SNK game lying around for customers to play on unofficial cabinets.

Growing up i remember seeing the Metal Slug games EVERYWHERE, i loved it as a kid and would play it while my parents were off doing something else, so seeing music from it repped in the KOF stage made me happy.

Wasn't there some issues with the rights thanks to the Dragon Quest composer? I've only played DQ9, so I'm not super familiar with any of the other soundtracks.

The old guy was extremely protective of these songs, limiting the orchestral version of these songs (Which of course sound better than what Smash got) to only be played in Japanese versions of the games.

 

[DarthEnderX]

But isn't the the original Overworld theme is like a recurring theme in the series? Because there was also a version of it in Dragon Quest 3.

Well, yeah, because late in DQ3 you go to the continent of DQ1. But it's hardly the only theme that recurs in the series.

Especially the Main Theme of DQ, which is in every game, but wasn't in Smash. Only Hero's reveal trailer.

 

[Brother AJ]

If it came down to Rosalina OR Bowser Jr. being kept, it would 99% be Rosalina that stays. We have precedent for this, too. Bowser Jr. was very close to being cut in Smash 4 due to time constraints, per Sakurai himself. That means Rosalina was already considered higher priority internally.

Interesting. Not sure if I knew that. That said, I guess we'd just have to see since Sakurai definitely has a habit of changing his mind on things. The only reason I went with Bowser Jr. is because he's much more prominent in Mario games. I'd prefer to keep both of them though... Hell I'd like Piranha Plant to stay too.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The old guy was extremely protective of these songs, limiting the orchestral version of these songs (Which of course sound better than what Smash got) to only be played in Japanese versions of the games.

Not even Japanese versions had them for the most part. He didn’t like to put the orchestral versions in the games because his company produced the DQ soundtracks and he always thought that putting the Orchestra in the games would hurt the sales of the CDs and Orchestral concerts. Dude was lost in time to be honest.

 

[Geno Boost]

tbh if i had to choose between cutting Rosalina or Bowser Jr. i would have to cut Rosalina for few reason mainly because cutting Bowser Jr. is like cutting 8 characters because of koopalings alt and also the fact that Rosalina was never a fighter to begin with her moveset are just made up mostly and feel forced even Piranha Plant has more justified moveset

 

[Perkilator]

tbh if i had to choose between cutting Rosalina or Bowser Jr. i would have to cut Rosalina for few reason mainly because cutting Bowser Jr. is like cutting 8 characters because of koopalings alt and also the fact that Rosalina was never a fighter to begin with her moveset are just made up mostly and feel forced even Piranha Plant has more justified moveset

Movesets being made up are a pretty poor argument against a fighter who wasn't one before Smash, especially since we have characters like R.O.B. and Villager in the game; one comes from a franchise with no combat at all, and the other was a real-life peripheral.

 

[Geno Boost]

Movesets being made up are a pretty poor argument against a fighter who wasn't one before Smash, especially since we have characters like R.O.B. and Villager in the game; one comes from a franchise with no combat at all, and the other was a real-life peripheral.

Villager and R.O.B. are justifyable because they represent entire series/piece of game history
were talking about Mario series that has alot of "fighter" to pick from why pick the ones who doesnt fight?

 

[Perkilator]

Villager and R.O.B. are justifyable because they represent entire series/piece of game history
were talking about Mario series that has alot of "fighter" to pick from why pick the ones who doesnt fight?

May I remind you, Rosalina single-handedly used the Comet Sbervatory to utterly destroy Bowser's fleet.

 

[chocolatejr9]

In the world os Smash clones, it looks like Nick All-Stars Brawl is getting a sequel, and they have a budget this time:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Perkilator]

In the world os Smash clones, it looks like Nick All-Stars Brawl is getting a sequel, and they have a budget this time:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Arguably, I think this is what Nick should've allowed the original game to be. It'd also be beneficial because it's not releasing during a time where Smash is relevant.

 

[SneakyLink]

In the world os Smash clones, it looks like Nick All-Stars Brawl is getting a sequel, and they have a budget this time:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If history repeats, I expect Nintendo to announce something Smash related for the day the game releases (joking)

Jokes aside, y’all can thank/curse me as I bought NASB1 on Switch two days ago.

 

[Geno Boost]

May I remind you, Rosalina single-handedly used the Comet Sbervatory to utterly destroy Bowser's fleet.

thats the "only" thing she did since wii days yet its not referenced in smash so yeah she is not a fighter

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Villager and R.O.B. are justifyable because they represent entire series/piece of game history
were talking about Mario series that has alot of "fighter" to pick from why pick the ones who doesnt fight?

What about 3D World?

 

[Geno Boost]

What about 3D World?

still no reference to her smash moveset

 

[Perkilator]

thats the "only" thing she did since wii days yet its not referenced in smash so yeah she is not a fighter

Me when Rosalina gets a fun and creative moveset with elements taken from Mario Galaxy (she doesn't fight in that game)

 

[osby]

The "not a fighter" argument is subjective at best and frivolous at worst.

A character fighting in their origin game can make for an easier moveset design but it adds nothing else to Smash. Not only do characters like Rosaline, or Isabelle. have unique playstyles that can't be replicated by others who happen to punch and kick in their home series, they are popular and interesting picks that fans usually wouldn't have a chance to control in such a degree.

Smash doesn't have to reference anything to justify the character additions. It's an intentionally goofy fighting game with no canon.

 

[Laniv]

Smash 4 adding Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and the Duck Hunt Dog should have put any "not a fighter" arguments to bed permanently.

 

[fogbadge]

Smash 4 adding Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and the Duck Hunt Dog should have put any "not a fighter" arguments to bed permanently.

it really should have. but no matter how many characters on a roster disproves a fan rule they won’t give up on it. wouldn’t surprise me if they still said some characters are too big

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I think at this point it’s clear if the team wants to do someone, they will. We have a $&@!ing piranha plane as a playable character. If they want to make whoever a character, they can make a moveset for them. Conversely, even if a character would translate well into smash, they are far from a lock.

 

[Soy_Man]

tbh if i had to choose between cutting Rosalina or Bowser Jr. i would have to cut Rosalina for few reason mainly because cutting Bowser Jr. is like cutting 8 characters because of koopalings alt and also the fact that Rosalina was never a fighter to begin with her moveset are just made up mostly and feel forced even Piranha Plant has more justified moveset

Rosalina's moves aren't direct references, but they evoke her character and they add something unique to the game, and that's pretty much all they need to do. Imo the movesets that are wholly original tend to be better designed characters (e.g. Sheik, Wolf, Diddy Kong).

 

[DarthEnderX]

Arguably, I think this is what Nick should've allowed the original game to be. It'd also be beneficial because it's not releasing during a time where Smash is relevant.

I still thinks it's dumb for a game where 90% of your characters come from 2D animated properties to us a 3D art style instead of a 2D celshaded one.

 

[Momotsuki]

To be quite honest I find myself really partial to the less faithful portrayals of characters in Smash, particularly legacy ones like Bowser (and most of the pre-Brawl Mario series fighters actually, like how Mario is a hardass and Luigi is straight-up insane rather than just a bit of a coward) that wouldn't fly had they debuted later on. I dunno, I like that these fighters feel more like vessels for a madman's headcanon, haha. Which, granted, is the same reason they're contentious.

I know we're talking more about gameplay here, but it just reminded me of this and by the time I realized that this was a tangent I was halfway through the ramble.

 

[Opossum]

Hmmm I wonder why Rosalina needs to suddenly have more justification for being a fighter than most of the other characters who weren't seen fighting beforehand, like R.O.B. or Captain Falcon. There must be something different about her.

I wonder what it could be!

 

[Momotsuki]

Rosalina seems completely fine IMO. The fact that there's not any [insert goofy pointing meme here] "wow look, the thing from Super Mario Galaxy for the Nintendo Wii!" doesn't change the fact that she feels about right. She and her lil' Luma methodically taking control of the stage to shut out the opponent fits pretty well for what she's like thematically, I'd say.

Like, pretty much all of the fighters with seemingly contrived movesets were still ultimately made with their character in mind. Captain Falcon's moveset is pretty infamously made-up and yet for a campy comic-book pilot of a blisteringly fast racing machine, the feel is just about on-point, to a degree where it even inspired official material via the anime, albeit within a different continuity.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Also, Rosalina's moveset does reference galaxy really well, even if she doesn't fight in that game. She manipulates space and is helped by lumas. That's literally her whole thing. And Rosalina isn't the fighter, it's Rosalina and Luma, so her up-special makes sense since lumas can turn into launch stars (and they like star bits, so that being the side-special is a direct reference to the lumas as well). And her final smash is basically the game going "Look, remember Mario Galaxy? Woah look at this cool thing from the game, remember, this is a reference!!!".

(It is weird she doesn't have a spin attack though since that's the power Mario is given by his Luma, and she has it in 3D world, but oh well).

 

[chocolatejr9]

Hmmm I wonder why Rosalina needs to suddenly have more justification for being a fighter than most of the other characters who weren't seen fighting beforehand, like R.O.B. or Captain Falcon. There must be something different about her.

I wonder what it could be!

Sexism. It always comes back to sexism.

 

[Opossum]

Sexism. It always comes back to sexism.

Yes that was in fact the point of the post.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yes that was in fact the point of the post.

I know. I figured I'd just go ahead and say it anyways.

Although I almost considered making a joke about people discriminating against blondes...

 

[SPEN18]

This has come up several times before but yeah Rosalina would likely be given higher priority than Jr, though hopefully both can stay. And I think they probably both will stay, as there is honestly quite a lot that would be below them.

"Cutting Jr would be like cutting 8 characters" is definitely not how it would be viewed, though. The Koopalings could only work as an all-or-nothing proposition, with one moveset that represents all of them. Perhaps it's best to think of them as like one character.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hmmm I wonder why Rosalina needs to suddenly have more justification for being a fighter than most of the other characters who weren't seen fighting beforehand, like R.O.B. or Captain Falcon. There must be something different about her.

I wonder what it could be!

Honestly, I think it's a different reason.

I think it's just a distaste for newer things, regardless of how popular, notable or well received they are.

Bowser Jr. is older and is thus more valued.

Both reasonings are bad and flawed. At least I hope it isn't sexism.