Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

Here are the ideal guest characters I’d pick for Mario Kart (including those who’ve already appeared):

• Link
• Kirby
• Captain Falcon
• Villager
• Inkling
• R.O.B.
• Pac-Man
• Sonic

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Y'all got crossovers on the brain.

We're still missing Mario mainstays like Diddy and Pauline. And there's a ton of old favorites like Funky or possible newcomers like E.Gadd.

Until Mario Kart is exhausted of characters, I don't think they should go full crossover.

 

[fogbadge]

Y'all got crossovers on the brain.

smash fans thinking about crossover?! i never thought i'd see the day

 

[Nabbitfan730]

They can actually focus on using characters from Mario series' history that haven't gotten a spotlight instead of homogonizing everything into the next Smash.

Not every game alive needs to be a crossover.

 

[Speed Weed]

Y'all got crossovers on the brain.

We're still missing Mario mainstays like Diddy and Pauline. And there's a ton of old favorites like Funky or possible newcomers like E.Gadd.

Until Mario Kart is exhausted of characters, I don't think they should go full crossover.

Yeah I am and will continue to be of the mind that the solution to the Mario Kart roster problem is not more crossover characters, it's better Mario characters

 

[toonito]

Here are the ideal guest characters I’d pick for Mario Kart (including those who’ve already appeared):

• Link
• Kirby
• Captain Falcon
• Villager
• Inkling
• R.O.B.
• Pac-Man
• Sonic

I like with ur list those would be who i'd pick as well

here's my additional list of guest characters below

• Toon Link (IMO Toon Link fits the mario kart aesthetic more I like Link in MK tho but I'd swap him out for Toon)
• Fox (uses Land Master as a kart)
• Samus (uses her gunship as a kart)
• Mega Man (uses Beat modified as a kart)
• Pikachu (uses Koraidon or Miraidon as a kart)

 

[TheLamerGamer]

I don't know why people are thinking about the characters in Mario Kart, when the courses are far more important. And honestly, I want more themed courses in general. Like, I want a course based on Mario 64 with N64 graphics, a Mario galaxy stage where you go around a planet, etc. Instead of just "it's a race track / farm / airport, etc. But mario".

Also, as much as I think they should definitely keep it as "Mario Kart", surely people will agree it'd be far cooler to have Nintendo courses instead of all the city courses. Like, imagine if instead of New York the first dlc cup included green greens, or if we got a botw/totk hyrule course to match the botw link alt.

 

[sal ig]

I don't know why people are thinking about the characters in Mario Kart, when the courses are far more important. And honestly, I want more themed courses in general. Like, I want a course based on Mario 64 with N64 graphics, a Mario galaxy stage where you go around a planet, etc. Instead of just "it's a race track / farm / airport, etc. But mario".

Also, as much as I think they should definitely keep it as "Mario Kart", surely people will agree it'd be far cooler to have Nintendo courses instead of all the city courses. Like, imagine if instead of New York the first dlc cup included green greens, or if we got a botw/totk hyrule course to match the botw link alt.

I agree with you about the courses being way more important but a course with n64 graphics would be a disaster
I understand nostalgia and all that but nintedo is trying to sell you a finished product (atleast I hope so) and reusing extremely old and outdated models and textures is not something that should be considered finished in any way possible but yeah im not against a mario 64 themed track at all but with n64 graphics im not to sure it could work

 

[TheLamerGamer]

I agree with you about the courses being way more important but a course with n64 graphics would be a disaster
I understand nostalgia and all that but nintedo is trying to sell you a finished product (atleast I hope so) and reusing extremely old and outdated models and textures is not something that should be considered finished in any way possible but yeah im not against a mario 64 themed track at all but with n64 graphics im not to sure it could work

I mean, I'm 18, I have far more nostalgia for the Mario 64 DS graphics than the original, i just thought it'd look cool. And I meant like Smash's classic stages, where it's the same style but with higher quality models and textures. Mario Odyssey already has a small area like that as well, and I don't think anyone considers that unfinished.

 

[Laniv]

Well, as long as we're talking about Mario Kart, I'm surprised they haven't gone for Cappy and Madame Broode. Maybe Hellen Gravely, too.

Has Tour added Boom Boom or Pom Pom yet?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Well, as long as we're talking about Mario Kart, I'm surprised they haven't gone for Cappy and Madame Broode. Maybe Hellen Gravely, too.

Has Tour added Boom Boom or Pom Pom yet?

Those feel like characters who will be in the same camp as EGadd as "why the hell are you not playable yet!?" characters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Until Mario Kart is exhausted of characters, I don't think they should go full crossover.

Balderdash. You literally can't exhaust Mario characters. There's hundreds of them. You're basically just saying "No Super Smash Karts, ever."

Not every game alive needs to be a crossover.

All platform fighters and kart racers do though. It's the law.

 

[DynamicSmasher]

Those feel like characters who will be in the same camp as EGadd as "why the hell are you not playable yet!?" characters.

Yeah, the Boneteers and the Broodals seem like they're going to go the Pianta route of being in one game and then never being seen again, which is unfortunate. (I guess Cappy was technically in Ultimate though, so he's got that going for him.) Whereas Pauline is the Rosalina-esque 'breakout hit' character. And basically the only crossover between Luigi's mansion and any Mario game are... the Boos(including King Boo) and E Gadd.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Ngl I find the Mario Kart v Nintendo Kart thing a little silly. Like, kart characters aren't equivalent to fighting game characters. They require unique models, animations and sounds... but they also don't require an entire moveset you need to code. I get why people would want a focus either direction on Mario or external characters but like, you can also just ask for a really big roster. Ninty would need to set apart time and money for it, but I'm sure they could add a lot more characters than what they currently have. And hey, then there'd be room for both parties, yeah? It'd be a ton of work obviously but it's also nowhere near as big as asking for an equivalent amount of Smash characters. Like, if Nintendo really wants to do so, a roster of 80+ characters wouldn't be implausible at all to create.


That said the current Mario Kart roster is nigh perfect. And it's totally not me being extremely biased for Wiggler that's making me say that, totally not.

Not a bad idea though

I'd like to see a story mode if something like this happens

 

[chocolatejr9]

Good thing the site's back up, apparently Direct predictions have already started again and it's not even August yet.

 

[Ivander]

Good thing the site's back up, apparently Direct predictions have already started again and it's not even August yet.

I've heard about a possible Pokemon Direct/Pokemon Presents. Not so much a Direct. Which like, we just got one last month.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Good thing the site's back up, apparently Direct predictions have already started again and it's not even August yet.

Based on some Pokémon datamine stuff in Masters, there might be a Pokémon presentation in August. Likely just a run through of wave 1 of the dlc for Scarlet and Violet and some Masters and Unite stuff.

 

[Perkilator]

RogersBase did his own take on an SSBU DX

 

[sal ig]

RogersBase did his own take on an SSBU DX

I really liked this video but I think nintendo would add first party characters alongside the third party ones most likely

• oatchi or 4 protag (yes I know he mentioned louie as an echo of olimar)
• next gen pokemon
• retro pick
• bandana waddle dee

 

[fogbadge]

Well I’ve 100% pikmin 4 and now I want the final boss as a fighter

 

[Soy_Man]

I get why people would want a focus either direction on Mario or external characters but like, you can also just ask for a really big roster.

I would rather they do focus either direction, for the sake of theming.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I just want to say, I'm really liking how Arc System Works is promoting their beat'em up series lately.

Years ago, there was the Double Dragon & Kunio-kun Retro Brawler Bundle, then there was the River City Girls games, and now River City Rival Showdown is getting a re-release this year.

At the same time, Double Dragon Neon got re-released, then there's the recent Double Dragon game that just came out, and now there's a Double Dragon Collection coming out later this year too.

I wonder if this will play into both series' chances if ASW were to get some reps other than Guilty Gear.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, what do you guys think of the franchises that got stages, but not characters?

Just to freshen your memory, that's...

• DS Hardware
• Electroplanton
• Balloon Fight
• Nintendogs
• Find Mii
• Tomodachi Life
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Wii Sports
• Miiverse

Personally I think most of these franchises are notable, popular and historically accurate. Balloon Fight, Nintendogs, Tomodachi Life, Pilotwings and Wii Sports are series I think are best represented with stages and I think Smash handles them perfectly. I'm personally a sucker for hardware stages like Pictochat and Find Mii. Those games may be free bonuses to go along with the console, but I have a ton of fond memories with them.

On the flipside. Electroplankton's inclusion baffles me to this day (and the stage sucks). Miiverse can't function without the Miiverse service (and it's just Battlefield regardless). And finally, I have no clue why Wrecking Crew isn't considered a Mario stage. It's not like they haven't done retro Mario stages before. It's not like it birthed a new series like DK, Yoshi or Wario. Wrecking Crew just continues to perplex me.

What games do you think are best represented as stages?

 

[chocolatejr9]

So, what do you guys think of the franchises that got stages, but not characters?

Just to freshen your memory, that's...

• DS Hardware
• Electroplanton
• Balloon Fight
• Nintendogs
• Find Mii
• Tomodachi Life
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Wii Sports
• Miiverse

Personally I think most of these franchises are notable, popular and historically accurate. Balloon Fight, Nintendogs, Tomodachi Life, Pilotwings and Wii Sports are series I think are best represented with stages and I think Smash handles them perfectly. I'm personally a sucker for hardware stages like Pictochat and Find Mii. Those games may be free bonuses to go along with the console, but I have a ton of fond memories with them.

On the flipside. Electroplankton's inclusion baffles me to this day (and the stage sucks). Miiverse can't function without the Miiverse service (and it's just Battlefield regardless). And finally, I have no clue why Wrecking Crew isn't considered a Mario stage. It's not like they haven't done retro Mario stages before. It's not like it birthed a new series like DK, Yoshi or Wario. Wrecking Crew just continues to perplex me.

What games do you think are best represented as stages?

I remember way back when I was younger and learning about Brawl for the first time, I tried to imagine some sort of "Mr. Pictochat" character, because I felt weirdly bad for the Nintendo DS only having a stage, with no fighter. I don't remember the EXACT details of the character, but I'm pretty sure it had a similar sort of idea to Mr. Game & Watch.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I remember way back when I was younger and learning about Brawl for the first time, I tried to imagine some sort of "Mr. Pictochat" character, because I felt weirdly bad for the Nintendo DS only having a stage, with no fighter. I don't remember the EXACT details of the character, but I'm pretty sure it had a similar sort of idea to Mr. Game & Watch.

Behold, Mr. Pictochat.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Behold, Mr. Pictochat.

Don't leak the next Smash game, that's rude.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So

What games do you think are best represented as stages?

Off the top of my head, Monster hunter, maybe

It's got the Rathalos boss arena which too be honest made it weird to me that they didnt give it a full stage of it's own.

 

[Ivander]

So, what do you guys think of the franchises that got stages, but not characters?

Just to freshen your memory, that's...

• DS Hardware
• Electroplanton
• Balloon Fight
• Nintendogs
• Find Mii
• Tomodachi Life
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Wii Sports
• Miiverse

Personally I think most of these franchises are notable, popular and historically accurate. Balloon Fight, Nintendogs, Tomodachi Life, Pilotwings and Wii Sports are series I think are best represented with stages and I think Smash handles them perfectly. I'm personally a sucker for hardware stages like Pictochat and Find Mii. Those games may be free bonuses to go along with the console, but I have a ton of fond memories with them.

On the flipside. Electroplankton's inclusion baffles me to this day (and the stage sucks). Miiverse can't function without the Miiverse service (and it's just Battlefield regardless). And finally, I have no clue why Wrecking Crew isn't considered a Mario stage. It's not like they haven't done retro Mario stages before. It's not like it birthed a new series like DK, Yoshi or Wario. Wrecking Crew just continues to perplex me.

What games do you think are best represented as stages?

I'm of the mindset that even if a series didn't get a character, they still could get a stage for representation. I think stages can be a great way of representing and advertising a series outside of the character picks and can interest non-fans of those series and show potential for Smash Bros. even if they don't get a character.
Like say Advance Wars. Even if a character from there didn't get in, I still think it could give us a great stage. Fighting on top of a building while armies are fighting below and the building is constantly being taken over by different armies and when an army is in control(represented by the building changing color), one of their COs are in the background and the stage gets hazards depending on the CO, like Olaf making the stage snowy and icy or Eagle making planes and bombers appear that attack and hit the stage.

As for series that would fit being stages more than characters, I can think of a couple like Nintendo Land, Steel Diver, Wave Race, a mish-mash of those AR 3DS games like the face balloon shooting game, the Dragon Tower, etc. But I do actually have a detailed idea for one specific thing, the Nintendo Badge Arcade.

• The Nintendo Badge Arcade is where the fighters are in one of the badge Arcade machines and the stage is randomized similarly to the Mario Maker stage, like how the Badge Arcades have different layouts, with every layout having at least one pit, whether it's stage wide or a medium pit. The fighters can always be Star KO'd or fall in the pit, but all layouts have at least one side opening, whether to the right or left, sometimes both.
  Badges appear in the Arcade stage with Badges being consisted of images from the list of Spirits you've gotten and placed onto the badges. These badges' sizes are randomized and are placed around parts of the stages where they start out still, but fighters can interact with these badges, being able to hit them down, jump on top of them and even get pushed and hit by them if hit by other fighters. They can also eventually fall into the pit where after falling in, they will respawn later.
  A crane will either be on the far left side or far right side of a stage. Every bit, the crane will move toward a badge in the stage and will try to grab it and put it into the pit. The crane can not only catch multiple badges sometimes, but also fighters. Fighters caught by the crane risk being dragged to the pit alongside any badges it gets and while the crane doesn't guarantee an instant KO, a fighter can potentially be weighed down and pushed into the pit by any and all badges potentially above them due to the badges being heavier than the fighters. If a fighter is trying to survive from falling into the pit, other fighters can push/hit badges towards them and potentially interfere with their recovering or the badges can push them down into the pit.
  An easter egg can happen where if all of the badges on the stage are put into the pit without one of them re-appearing yet, the Arcade Bunny will appear at the front of the stage/The Arcade Machine and clap towards the players. Very rarely, instead of clapping, he'll do his hyped up expression or his bodybuilder pose.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Oh yeah Advance wars would be perfect for a stage but no playable fighter.

 

[Super Devon]

RogersBase did his own take on an SSBU DX

I'll be honest, in my opinion, I think a deluxe version of Smash Ultimate would be kinda lame.
Sure that may be the safest path, but I believe Sakurai wants to challenge himself with every game he makes.

The character select screen is already cluttered enough as is, and I think we'd be missing out on new stages like something based on Mario Wonder, Gen 9 Pokemon, Pikmin 4, Tears of the Kingdom, etc. I don't think it'd be feasible for both Nintendo and Sakurai himself to do Ultimate but again.

And on top of that, wouldn't some characters be kinda dated in a way if we were to get an Ultimate Deluxe? if we assume that it's just gonna be more characters and no changes to the existing roster, then characters like Samus not being in his Metroid Dread suit, Link not being updated to his appearance from Tears of the Kingdom, Sonic not receiving some kind of change, or Kazuya not receiving his Tekken 8 outfit wouldn't fly well with some companies co-operating with Nintendo for Smash Bros.

Also, if we see a reduction of characters, which is gonna happen, I believe more there would be more first party removals compared to third party, especially seeing as the first parties make up about 80% of the roster.

 

[fogbadge]

So, what do you guys think of the franchises that got stages, but not characters?

Just to freshen your memory, that's...

• DS Hardware
• Electroplanton
• Balloon Fight
• Nintendogs
• Find Mii
• Tomodachi Life
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Wii Sports
• Miiverse

Personally I think most of these franchises are notable, popular and historically accurate. Balloon Fight, Nintendogs, Tomodachi Life, Pilotwings and Wii Sports are series I think are best represented with stages and I think Smash handles them perfectly. I'm personally a sucker for hardware stages like Pictochat and Find Mii. Those games may be free bonuses to go along with the console, but I have a ton of fond memories with them.

On the flipside. Electroplankton's inclusion baffles me to this day (and the stage sucks). Miiverse can't function without the Miiverse service (and it's just Battlefield regardless). And finally, I have no clue why Wrecking Crew isn't considered a Mario stage. It's not like they haven't done retro Mario stages before. It's not like it birthed a new series like DK, Yoshi or Wario. Wrecking Crew just continues to perplex me.

What games do you think are best represented as stages?

well personally i find it hard to think of tomodachi life, wii sports and streetpass quest as lacking characters when the miis are playable. same goes for wrecking crew and mario

 

[Soy_Man]

I'll be honest, in my opinion, I think a deluxe version of Smash Ultimate would be kinda lame.
Sure that may be the safest path, but I believe Sakurai wants to challenge himself with every game he makes.

The character select screen is already cluttered enough as is, and I think we'd be missing out on new stages like something based on Mario Wonder, Gen 9 Pokemon, Pikmin 4, Tears of the Kingdom, etc. I don't think it'd be feasible for both Nintendo and Sakurai himself to do Ultimate but again.

And on top of that, wouldn't some characters be kinda dated in a way if we were to get an Ultimate Deluxe? if we assume that it's just gonna be more characters and no changes to the existing roster, then characters like Samus not being in his Metroid Dread suit, Link not being updated to his appearance from Tears of the Kingdom, Sonic not receiving some kind of change, or Kazuya not receiving his Tekken 8 outfit wouldn't fly well with some companies co-operating with Nintendo for Smash Bros.

Also, if we see a reduction of characters, which is gonna happen, I believe more there would be more first party removals compared to third party, especially seeing as the first parties make up about 80% of the roster.

I don't see why all of the things you mentioned can't be added to an SSBU deluxe (except the part about changing sonic).

When people bring a SSBU deluxe, they're probably thinking of something equivalent to MK8 deluxe, which added new courses, modes, and characters (and alts for pre-existing ones).

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I'll be honest, in my opinion, I think a deluxe version of Smash Ultimate would be kinda lame.
Sure that may be the safest path, but I believe Sakurai wants to challenge himself with every game he makes.

The character select screen is already cluttered enough as is, and I think we'd be missing out on new stages like something based on Mario Wonder, Gen 9 Pokemon, Pikmin 4, Tears of the Kingdom, etc. I don't think it'd be feasible for both Nintendo and Sakurai himself to do Ultimate but again.

And on top of that, wouldn't some characters be kinda dated in a way if we were to get an Ultimate Deluxe? if we assume that it's just gonna be more characters and no changes to the existing roster, then characters like Samus not being in his Metroid Dread suit, Link not being updated to his appearance from Tears of the Kingdom, Sonic not receiving some kind of change, or Kazuya not receiving his Tekken 8 outfit wouldn't fly well with some companies co-operating with Nintendo for Smash Bros.

Also, if we see a reduction of characters, which is gonna happen, I believe more there would be more first party removals compared to third party, especially seeing as the first parties make up about 80% of the roster.

There are many good arguments for cutting characters. A cluttered character select screen is not one of them.

As for character appearances, I’m fine if they lean into the most iconic versions of the character. Would Samus having a Dread alt be cool? Sure, but most people when they envision Samus picture that Varia suit. Would I like Link to have an alt similar to his TotK amiibo? Sure, but I’m fine with how he looks right now. My only criteria for character design in smash is that it sells the fantasy of playing as them. Take Mario for example. You could visually theme him more in an Odyssey or Wonder route, but the current one sells the fantasy of playing as Mario on a fighting game well enough. It’s not like having the next Smash build off of Ultimate’s foundation would limit character appearance. Ultimate was based off of 4’s foundation and plenty of veterans got a nice visual upgrade.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Let's not forget why MK8 got a Deluxe version in the first place.

Because the Wii U was a flop, and the Switch gave a lot of its high budget games second life.

And even then Smash still went down the sequel route, even when everyone expected a port as well. We even had a phase were people were in denial that Ultimate wasn't a full-fledged sequel.

And something tells me we're setting ourselves up for history to repeat itself.

 

[SPEN18]

I guess my hot-ish take is that Mario Kart doesn't really need a big roster. Just give us the Marioverse staples and it'll be fine. Don't need a half-dozen Koopa kids, smorgasbords of generic mooks or baby/metal versions of everybody. A few guests is ok, particularly for those like C Falcon who could benefit from the exposure, but kart racing is just not the genre that elicits excitement for a full-on crossover aspect.

 

[osby]

I guess my hot-ish take is that Mario Kart doesn't really need a big roster. Just give us the Marioverse staples and it'll be fine. Don't need a half-dozen Koopa kids, smorgasbords of generic mooks or baby/metal versions of everybody. A few guests is ok, particularly for those like C Falcon who could benefit from the exposure, but kart racing is just not the genre that elicits excitement for a full-on crossover aspect.

Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing fans would beg to differ.

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing fans would beg to differ.

To their benefit, it's not just a Sonic racing game. Unlike Sonic R or Team Sonic Racing, expanding themselves beyond the hedgehog is the why and the how to include a large roster.

By proxy, Mario Kart has so many characters that it can fill a large roster without crossovers from other Nintendo franchises.

However, I have a way around this: Don't include Mario characters in a Nintendo Kart game, and make it a spinoff that uses the Mario Kart formula. Sure, you'd get people demanding Mario and Luigi, but you can't please everyone with a new crossover game.

 

[ZephyrZ]

From my experience generic mooks have always been decently popular in Mario Kart.

They're not the big hitters but I've known guys who like to play as Shy Guy and Dry Bones. I think it's part of the charm of big rosters that even the little guys get opportunities to shine on occasion.

And just look at Wiggler, he's so cute.

Aaaaaaaawww

Still not buying the DLC.

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

From my experience generic mooks have always been decently popular in Mario Kart.

They're not the big hitters but I've known guys who like to play as Shy Guy and Dry Bones. I think it's part of the charm of big rosters that even the little guys get opportunities to shine on occasion.

And just look at Wiggler, he's so cute.

Aaaaaaaawww

Still not buying the DLC.

I agree that spinoffs are the best way to include the mooks, and I also agree that Wiggler looks cute. But if they had enough manpower, they could program a way to turn his excess limbs into a one-driver Double Dash mode.

That's just how my brain works. Don't judge me.

 

[CannonStreak]

Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing fans would beg to differ.

I think you mean Team Sonic Racing. Do you mean that, by any chance?

I say this because Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing is more generally a Sega game by itself.