Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SPEN18]

Realistically there shouldn't be any reason at all, but bizarrely it hasn't happened yet and I think I can suspect why. I love Midna and Skull Kid and would love to see them in Smash, but I can't help but think that the triforce wielders being the only playable fighters is by design from Sakurai and not due to other circumstances. It's been over 20 years since Melee and Smash has skipped over the addition of popular Zelda characters that came with every release even when the game releases were perfectly timed, we've had three Smash releases since then and the only newcomer was Toon Link (another triforce wielder) back in Brawl. If a new director takes control for the next game I'll be hopeful for more Zelda newcomers, but if it's Sakurai again the best I'll expect is a revamped Ganondorf.

I can understand not being optimistic about getting non-Triforce characters. Though Sakurai has never confirmed the suspicion that he'd be against non-Triforce characters, so it's only speculation that he'd be against them in principle. And even if he was unilaterally against them, we are indeed possibly on the precipice of Sakurai taking some reduction in his role, so that issue could end up resolving itself at some point.

I hope that they are at least aware of the demand for different Zelda reps. We know some like Skull Kid and Midna had some numbers on the ballot, and one can hope that they looked at combined votes for the category of Zelda reps much like they almost certainly looked at combined votes for, say, Castlevania characters, in the event that no singular Zelda rep stood out enough. And as I was saying there was also the explosion in Skull Kid support the minute he had some theories/rumors in his favor during the leadup to Ult, which could have been noticed even if those theories/rumors were very unfounded from the start.

Regardless of the likelihood, I think reconstructing the Zelda roster almost entirely would be best. Like, when I look at it, I'd literally be good with it if they just kept Link and Zelda and started from zero with everything else. All due respect to him of course, but Sakurai's way of handling this series has just...not worked IMO.

 

[MasterCheef]

Nintendo Switch Successor is Expected to Release in 2024, Microsoft Says

for me it depends on their 2024 line-up, as to when.

thoughts ?

Nintendo Switch Successor is Expected to Release in 2024, Microsoft Says

gamingbolt.com

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Nintendo Switch Successor is Expected to Release in 2024, Microsoft Says

for me it depends on their 2024 line-up, as to when.

thoughts ?

Nintendo Switch Successor is Expected to Release in 2024, Microsoft Says

gamingbolt.com

Hey, please don't spam the same thing repeatedly - there are literally 2 messages between this and the last time you asked, you need to give people a chance to actually respond, especially when the majority of people here are likely asleep due to timezones.

In other news nobody cares about, my signature might soon be somewhat relevant:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

This account has actually got stuff right before as well. I know this is only tangentially related to smash, but shilling classic Persona is sort of my thing.

 

[fogbadge]

WHY ? , Because this can draw the casuals who would be waay too intimidated by Smash's regular game-play , to be interested in the game.

casual gamers are already drawn in by the prospect of all these characters being in the same game

 

[chocolatejr9]

Hey, please don't spam the same thing repeatedly - there are literally 2 messages between this and the last time you asked, you need to give people a chance to actually respond, especially when the majority of people here are likely asleep due to timezones.

In other news nobody cares about, my signature might soon be somewhat relevant:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

This account has actually got stuff right before as well. I know this is only tangentially related to smash, but shilling classic Persona is sort of my thing.

I always wondered how a P1/P2 remake would be approached. Would they try to be as accurate to the originals as possible, or would they update some stuff to make it more in line with the later games?

 

[Oracle Link]

I am interested , How is , Little Mac , one of the most wanted First Party characters ?

Zero Suit Samus , makes perfect sense because Samus should not be without her armor

Again , Earthbound / Mother , series is dead. Additionally i REALLY DON'T want any young children playable characters in Smash

Having no young children in smash would be like having no saiyans in a dbz Game!
Zelda had originally a kid Link!
Kirby IS a Kid!
Earthbound might be "dead" bBut it has a HUGE FAnbase and inspired games like undertale (Who are also huge)
Toad is somewhat of a kid same with all koopalings
The Ac Characters are often seen as kids (even tho technically they are all adults)
Luma is somewhat Playble
Heck by your logic get rid of the pokemon trainer, and all non fully evolved pokemon!

 

[TheLamerGamer]

I always wondered how a P1/P2 remake would be approached. Would they try to be as accurate to the originals as possible, or would they update some stuff to make it more in line with the later games?

The games just wouldn't work with social mechanics. It wouldn't fit thematically or in the story, since each of the games only takes place over a couple of days. They could maybe give it the modern persona combat system, but even then it'd be a shame to lose the grid system in P1, or fusion spells in P2.

My biggest question would be how they'd do P1 since you can only have 5 of the 9 party members in one playthrough, and there are 2 completely separate story routes (a "main" one and one that supposedly takes place partway through, despite being intended for a second playthrough).

As long as they keep/remix the original soundtrack and not the psp one I'm happy though.

Hopefully if the games do get more popular and Joker is in the next smash we'd maybe be able to get some proper P1 and 2 music and new versions of mementos at least.

 

[Momotsuki]

Toad is somewhat of a kid

This is a fourteen year-old after smoking one (1) blunt. Still think it's safe?

 

[Wonder Smash]

umm not certain how what i was posting about is even remotely related to adding non video game characters to smash.

Himawari , is 2 Years younger , 14 , than her brother , Boruto ,16 , as of the time skip. I am assuming they would at least use this age.

Additionally When I post young children . i mean AGE 12 or less.

If i meant anyone under the age of 18 , even , LINK , would have to be cut.

Wait, I just noticed this guy said that Ness and Lucas are either 12 or younger.

Umm...should we tell him, guys?

 

[MasterCheef]

Zelda had originally a kid Link!
Kirby IS a Kid!
Earthbound might be "dead" bBut it has a HUGE FAnbase and inspired games like undertale (Who are also huge)
Toad is somewhat of a kid same with all koopalings
The Ac Characters are often seen as kids (even tho technically they are all adults)
Luma is somewhat Playble
Heck by your logic get rid of the pokemon trainer, and all non fully evolved pokemon!

I was referencing ( humans / elves ) age 11 or less.

You got the idea mostly , including , no more , Pokemon Trainer. as Pokemon Trainer currently is. Thanks.

I would much rather, ( Pokemon Trainer ) , use , Koraidon , & , Miraidon.

Interesting. Both Wikis describe her as an adult. I Thought Rosalina was just a teenager.

Rosalina

mario.fandom.com

Rosalina

Rosalina is a recurring character who first appears in Super Mario Galaxy. Her duty is to watch over and protect the cosmos, while also serving as the adopted mother of the Lumas and commanding the Comet Observatory. Rosalina's backstory is...

www.mariowiki.com

 

[fogbadge]

I was referencing ( humans / elves ) age 11 or less.

You got the idea mostly , including , no more , Pokemon Trainer. as Pokemon Trainer currently is. Thanks.

I would much rather, ( Pokemon Trainer ) , use , Koraidon , & , Miraidon.

Interesting. Both Wikis describe her as an adult. I Thought Rosalina was just a teenager.

Rosalina

mario.fandom.com

Rosalina

Rosalina is a recurring character who first appears in Super Mario Galaxy. Her duty is to watch over and protect the cosmos, while also serving as the adopted mother of the Lumas and commanding the Comet Observatory. Rosalina's backstory is...

www.mariowiki.com

well first of all the are no elves in smash as hylians are humans with pointy ears. second Rosalina is over a hundred years old possibly more so am I right in thinking you didn’t read the whole article

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think we need more child characters in Smash. If an eight year old like Tails can help save the world multiple times, he can damn well handle fighting the Ice Climbers. And dealing with the likes of Master and Crazy Hand would be a day at the office for Vivi.

Heck Kiddy Kong is a baby in footie pajamas and in DKC3 he's basically thrown to Dixie with a sentiment of "Dangerous new land with enemies? Eh, he can help you out."

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Nintendo Switch Successor is Expected to Release in 2024, Microsoft Says

for me it depends on their 2024 line-up, as to when.

thoughts ?

Nintendo Switch Successor is Expected to Release in 2024, Microsoft Says

gamingbolt.com

My guess is that the new Smash would release around 2026, which would be 2 years after the console launch, which would be the same timing as Brawl on Wii and Smash Wii U. I could see it releasing later too, like 2027 at the latest, but I think earlier than 2026 is pretty much impossible unless they reuse a lots of assets similar to Ultimate that reuses most of Smash 4 contents.

 

[Speed Weed]

My stance on this is that if we are to include children in Smash, we should at least provide them with a fair matchup. This is why I propose that we add the Hydrogen Bomb-

 

[MasterCheef]

It really depends on if you think we are getting , SSBU Deluxe , or not.

I think we are getting , SSBU Deluxe , so it would be mostly a port with 10 new characters.

I am hoping for 2024 , however , 2025 seems more likely at this rate.

My guess is that the new Smash would release around 2026, which would be 2 years after the console launch, which would be the same timing as Brawl on Wii and Smash Wii U. I could see it releasing later too, like 2027 at the latest, but I think earlier than 2026 is pretty much impossible unless they reuse a lots of assets similar to Ultimate that reuses most of Smash 4 contents.

Rosalina is an indeterminate adult age , as she looks forward to visiting another planet every 100 years

Rosalina

Rosalina is a recurring character who first appears in Super Mario Galaxy. Her duty is to watch over and protect the cosmos, while also serving as the adopted mother of the Lumas and commanding the Comet Observatory. Rosalina's backstory is...

www.mariowiki.com

Hylians, descended from the people who lived among the goddess Hylia long prior to the establishment of Hyrule as a kingdom, they are a magic race with pointed ears. So definitely most like elves.

Hylian

This article is about the Race. For the language, see Hylian (Language). The Hylians (pronounced /ˈhaɪ.li.ən/ HY-lee-ən)[citation needed] are a recurring race of Humans in The Legend of Zelda series.[2][3][note 1] They are from the countries of Skyloft, Hyrule and the latter's flooded...

zelda.fandom.com

 

[Opossum]

I was referencing ( humans / elves ) age 11 or less.

You got the idea mostly , including , no more , Pokemon Trainer. as Pokemon Trainer currently is. Thanks.

I would much rather, ( Pokemon Trainer ) , use , Koraidon , & , Miraidon.

Interesting. Both Wikis describe her as an adult. I Thought Rosalina was just a teenager.

Rosalina

mario.fandom.com

Rosalina

Rosalina is a recurring character who first appears in Super Mario Galaxy. Her duty is to watch over and protect the cosmos, while also serving as the adopted mother of the Lumas and commanding the Comet Observatory. Rosalina's backstory is...

www.mariowiki.com

Why would Pokémon Trainer even be a problem when they don't even actually fight themselves? Red/Leaf just give out commands to Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard, the actual fighters.

 

[Gengar84]

I think Hylians are their own thing and not really humans or elves. If I had to fit them into an existing category, I think they’re closest to high elves while the Kokiri are wood elves. I was making a custom Magic the Gathering set and put some thought into what to classify each Zelda race for existing MtG creature types. I had the Gerudo as orcs and the Zora as merfolk. I never really found a good match for Gordons. In the end, I decided to just create new MtG creature types so they could keep their existing Zelda creature types.

 

[MasterCheef]

Why would Pokémon Trainer even be a problem when they don't even actually fight themselves? Red/Leaf just give out commands to Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard, the actual fighters.

I don't like , Squirtle, Ivysaur, & Charizard .

 

[Opossum]

I don't like , Squirtle, Ivysaur, & Charizard .

So the issue has nothing to do with age then. Got it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't like , Squirtle, Ivysaur, & Charizard .

How can you dislike the best US president the world has ever seen?

He's fought back the alien horde, brought cuts down to a minimum and even invented toaster strudels!

It's the one, the only, PRESIDENT IVYSAUR!

 

[MasterCheef]

So the issue has nothing to do with age then. Got it.

just for this particular character.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

How can you dislike the best US president the world has ever seen?

He's fought back the alien horde, brought cuts down to a minimum and even invented toaster strudels!

It's the one, the only, PRESIDENT IVYSAUR!

View attachment 374791

That pfp takes me back

can we elect him again? please?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That pfp takes me back

can we elect him again? please?

He has served his two terms.

He is retiring from politics.

 

[Perkilator]

I don't like , Squirtle, Ivysaur, & Charizard .

So the issue has nothing to do with age then. Got it.

just for this particular character.

I mean to be fair I would like for the Pokémon Trainer’s team to be Totodile, Grovyle and Charizard but that’s besides the point

 

[Laniv]

Evidently there is one solution to this.

Keep current Pokémon Trainer, and then add a separate Pokémon Trainer who fights by summoning the common field Pokemon (beginning mammal, early birds and bugs and the like) to fight for them and immediately withdrawing them after the attack is done.

Or maybe have a Youngster character that works similarly to the existing Trainer?

 

[Momotsuki]

I honestly want the Trainer themselves gone. Which isn't a cut because I then want their 'mons to be given their own slots and their own down-specials. And general buffs to make up for no longer being able to switch. I feel the same way about Pyra and Mythra. What little time I put into the Aegis in Ultimate was spent almost entirely with Pyra, occasionally switching to Mythra by accident and then switching back at the first opportunity. Having a down special would've been nice.

I thought we figured this out with Sheik and Zelda back in Smash for.
Luckily I happen to play a game where this is the case.

 

[Gengar84]

I honestly want the Trainer themselves gone. Which isn't a cut because I then want their 'mons to be given their own slots and their own down-specials. And general buffs to make up for no longer being able to switch. I feel the same way about Pyra and Mythra. What little time I put into the Aegis in Ultimate was spent almost entirely with Pyra, occasionally switching to Mythra by accident and then switching back at the first opportunity. Having a down special would've been nice.

I thought we figured this out with Sheik and Zelda back in Smash for.
Luckily I happen to play a game where this is the case.

I respect your opinion but I disagree. I think transform characters are a ton of fun and I’d like to see more of them. I’m in the minority, but I was sad to see Zelda and Sheik break off. Partially because I enjoyed their gimmick and partially because the split led to a ton of people wanting Sheik cut for Impa. Impa’s cool (particularly her Hyrule Warriors incarnation) but I wouldn’t want to lose one of my favorite Smash characters for her.

I’ve always wanted to see a Pokémon Trainer that physically fights themselves and uses various Pokémon for specials and a few other moves. I think there’s a few good options here. Gym leaders, elite four members, and champions (particularly fighting type users) would be a great fit. As would many evil team leaders. I think my most wanted here are Jessie and James from Team Rocket. The two could share a special that uses Meowth but use their own Pokémon for the other specials.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Why not just turn the characters into babies after being defeated? Everybody wins; including the babies.

 

[CannonStreak]

Why not just turn the characters into babies after being defeated? Everybody wins; including the babies.

I only have one word that can fit this.

Babality.

 

[Gengar84]

We need a transform team up of Baby Mario and Kiddy Kong. I’d love to see our friends reaction since these characters are what kept him from playing Yoshi’s Island and Donkey Kong Country 3. A shame because both were fun games. Yoshi’s Island was one of my favorite on the console.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Why not just turn the characters into babies after being defeated? Everybody wins; including the babies.

Completely random, but wasn't there a Blazblue character whose finisher was basically this?

 

[jamesster445]

Completely random, but wasn't there a Blazblue character whose finisher was basically this?

Yes and no. That is Amane's astral heat.

 

[ShotoStar]

I honestly want the Trainer themselves gone. Which isn't a cut because I then want their 'mons to be given their own slots and their own down-specials. And general buffs to make up for no longer being able to switch. I feel the same way about Pyra and Mythra. What little time I put into the Aegis in Ultimate was spent almost entirely with Pyra, occasionally switching to Mythra by accident and then switching back at the first opportunity. Having a down special would've been nice.

I thought we figured this out with Sheik and Zelda back in Smash for.
Luckily I happen to play a game where this is the case.

I think the argument could be made for Pokemon Trainer since the precedent is already set with Charizard in Smash 4 but I don't think the same should go for Aegis. Aegis is incredibly fun as a duo character that functions nigh as a stance fighter. It'd also be very weird to separate Pyra and Mythra when they're so intertwined together through their story in XC2. I dunno, I think you're half-right.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I like transforming characters and wish we had more of them. It also makes me wonder how Sheik and Zelda would do if they were still a transformation character. Ultimate seems like the game where the two could have finally worked well being used in tandem. Oh well.

 

[Will]

You want the Pokémon Trainer deconstructed because of gameplay complexities and character moveset diversity.

I want the Pokémon Trainer deconstructed so I can play as just him and KO your ass with the Old Rod and a Magikarp.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I like transforming characters and wish we had more of them.

I don't. It's basically getting 1 character for the development cost of 2(or 3 in the case of PT).

 

[Idon]

I am of the opinion that it depends on the character in a case-by-case basis.

For Sheik and Zelda I'm not a fan because of the difference in overall strength of the characters, the necessity to adhere to Sheik's game-specific lore where smash constantly reinvents which Zelda it's representing, and worst of all how they don't complement each other's weaknesses and strengths. Despite the fact they have polar opposite strengths/weaknesses, they don't help each other with them. It doesn't make sense both mechanically or flavor-wise so I think it was a good idea to split them sooner than later.

For Pokemon Trainer, I am divided. Mechanically speaking, I think they function actually very well with each of all 3 parts of PT being necessary together to perform well patching each other's weaknesses while having a lot of different tools individually.
Flavor wise, it also represents the singles strategy of switching your pokemon to fit the situation. However, (personal bias speaking here), I genuinely don't really care about 2/3s of the parts. Charizard is the star of the show and the others are there to supplement this specific function envisioned for Smash. Without it, the others wouldn't be in smash (as we literally see when smash 4 removed transformations). To have one component be so much more important the other 2 kind of always felt off to me.

Aegis I think is so far the best implementation of the transformation archetype. In gameplay, they complement each other's strengths and weaknesses perfectly and seamlessly swap to capitalize whenever efficient and their movesets are similar enough such that the "gear shift" isn't too drastic like going from charizard to squirtle. With regards to the source material, as the 2 extremely pushed poster girls in a game where you can freely swap between them and where they occupy the same body, it makes sense both in-universe and in marketing that they would fight like this instead of alone individually.

Going forward, I'm not opposed to the concept of a character that transforms into someone else, but I don't think there are many out there that would match the bar I think Aegis sets in terms of just making that much sense. I think we are more likely going to see characters that just change their movesets by themselves by entering a new state or swapping weapons or something.

 

[fogbadge]

Rosalina is an indeterminate adult age , as she looks forward to visiting another planet every 100 years

that's prett much what i said to you

Hylians, descended from the people who lived among the goddess Hylia long prior to the establishment of Hyrule as a kingdom, they are a magic race with pointed ears. So definitely most like elves.

being like something is not the same as being something

I think Hylians are their own thing and not really humans or elves. If I had to fit them into an existing category, I think they’re closest to high elves while the Kokiri are wood elves. I was making a custom Magic the Gathering set and put some thought into what to classify each Zelda race for existing MtG creature types. I had the Gerudo as orcs and the Zora as merfolk. I never really found a good match for Gordons. In the end, I decided to just create new MtG creature types so they could keep their existing Zelda creature types.

no offence gengar but i think trying to get them to fit into pre existing was daft to begin with. i don't think any zelda race was ever meant to be based on something else and even if they were i think we should probably look to japanese myth rather than western

also you make the gerudo amazons and the gorons dwarfs

 

[Gengar84]

that's prett much what i said to you




being like something is not the same as being something



no offence gengar but i think trying to get them to fit into pre existing was daft to begin with. i don't think any zelda race was ever meant to be based on something else and even if they were i think we should probably look to japanese myth rather than western

also you make the gerudo amazons and the gorons dwarfs

Amazons aren’t a creature type in Magic. Yeah, I realized that there were no great matches for some of the Zelda races so I ended up keeping their original races. Magic is kind of split in how they deal with this in their crossovers. Some of the races like the Zora are pretty much perfect matches for Merfolk but others like the Gordon’s and Gerudo not so much.

 

[fogbadge]

Amazons aren’t a creature type in Magic. Yeah, I realized that there were no great matches for some of the Zelda races so I ended up keeping their original races. Magic is kind of split in how they deal with this in their crossovers. Some of the races like the Zora are pretty much perfect matches for the Zora but others like the Gordon’s and Gerudo not so much.

really i heard there was