Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Rie Sonomura]

Maybe this is my slightly OCD brain latching on to patterns but we haven’t seen a female original fighter with a male echo. We saw male original w/female echo (Marth w/Lucina), male original w/male echo (Ryu w/Ken, Roy w/Chrom, Simon w/ Richter, Pit w/ Dark Pit), and female original w/female echo (Peach w/Daisy, Samus w/Dark Samus). Yeah I know Dark Samus would technically be non-binary despite using feminine pronouns

I’d like to see a female original fighter with a male echo next time around

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Is that a joke? WHAT design? The Hands are a pair of plain white gloves. Tabuu is just a generic human model with no features. Master Core is literally just the series logo. All 3 of them feel like they were leftover develpment assets that just got tossed into the game.

Galleem and Dharkon have a LITTLE design to them. But not much. They're both just orbs with some accessories.

Less is More. Not all designs have to be intensively over-design and over-zealous to achieve their purpose.

The Hands represent the hands that play with the toys. One of creativity and order and one of destruction and chaos that comes with playtime. Master Hand is more reserved and focused whilst Crazy is more erratic and twitchy. Being a simple pair of hands works.

Tabuu is maybe but compared to the rest of the roster, it makes sense especially when he is meant to be otherworldly being from another realm. Ironically makes him stand out from the rest of the roster.

It also works resembling a full-grown man. THE Man as you will declare WoT, the fighters, and playtime as 'Taboo' and forcing cast aside such nonsense as the sense of growing up if you go with its trophy description and certain interpretation.

Master Core maybe but that's just the end-portion. What about the rest of the fight?

Galeem and Dharkon represent the light and darkness that peers into the World of Imagination so their design also makes sense. It's even more apparent with Dharkon with him being a literal eyeball. Could also reference Zero and 02 from Kirby from the time Sakurai was still at HAL LAB.


Really wished Sakurai elaborated more on lore of Smash even if it may be a niche interest

in fact:

Here's a question: If you could ask Sakurai any single question about any one Smash game, what would you ask him?

My question be the purpose on both Subspace Emissary and World of Light and why both modes are designed the way there?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Maybe this is my slightly OCD brain latching on to patterns but we haven’t seen a female original fighter with a male echo. We saw male original w/female echo (Marth w/Lucina), male original w/male echo (Ryu w/Ken, Roy w/Chrom, Simon w/ Richter, Pit w/ Dark Pit), and female original w/female echo (Peach w/Daisy, Samus w/Dark Samus). Yeah I know Dark Samus would technically be non-binary despite using feminine pronouns

I’d like to see a female original fighter with a male echo next time around

Third party wise, you could probably do something with Jill Valentine or Claire Redfield having Leon Kennedy or Chris Redfield respectively as echos.

 

[SneakyLink]

Reports are coming in the deadline for the MS/ABK deal may be extended to accommodate the CMA.

All I know is:

Spoiler

 

[Gengar84]

Maybe this is my slightly OCD brain latching on to patterns but we haven’t seen a female original fighter with a male echo. We saw male original w/female echo (Marth w/Lucina), male original w/male echo (Ryu w/Ken, Roy w/Chrom, Simon w/ Richter, Pit w/ Dark Pit), and female original w/female echo (Peach w/Daisy, Samus w/Dark Samus). Yeah I know Dark Samus would technically be non-binary despite using feminine pronouns

I’d like to see a female original fighter with a male echo next time around

Yeah, that would be cool. I'd be happy to see that if it happens. I wonder who the best candidate for that would be. At least we have Inkling as a primary female fighter with male alts but that's not exactly the same thing.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, that would be cool. I'd be happy to see that if it happens. I wonder who the best candidate for that would be. At least we have Inkling as a primary female fighter with male alts but that's not exactly the same thing.

we could have digby for Isabelle?

 

[sal ig]

Takamaru has been put in Super Smash Bros. Brawl as a sticker and in the latter games of Super Smash Bros. as Assist Trophy and Mii costume. I think it's time for him to come to the next Super Smash Bros. game as a new character, besides his own game The Mysterious Murasame Castle, he was also a playable character in Samurai Warriors 3.

I 100% agree with you about takamaru bcs -

Firstly he's one of the few characters that has been rejected from multiple smash games before, secondly he's a retro rep (that suprisingly ultimate didn't include any of those sort of characters), thirdly he's a fairly popular requested character and theres also the fact that nintendo has included him in smash but also in super mario maker 2 so they know he's fairly popular among fans

 

[Gengar84]

we could have digby for Isabelle?

Yeah, that could work. Isabelle is already a semiclone so I'm not sure if that's a unique situation to get an echo for a semiclone. We could also potentially get male Octoling as the default with female alts to be a reverse Inkling scenario but I feel like the females are the more iconic look for both.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Maybe this is my slightly OCD brain latching on to patterns but we haven’t seen a female original fighter with a male echo. We saw male original w/female echo (Marth w/Lucina), male original w/male echo (Ryu w/Ken, Roy w/Chrom, Simon w/ Richter, Pit w/ Dark Pit), and female original w/female echo (Peach w/Daisy, Samus w/Dark Samus). Yeah I know Dark Samus would technically be non-binary despite using feminine pronouns

I’d like to see a female original fighter with a male echo next time around

It still depends on what character it is. You can't just have a character like that just for the sake of it. What female character and male echo should they have?

 

[Momotsuki]

Funnily enough, before my Switch died I was planning to mod in Bob the Cat as an Isabelle clone/echo. He was going to be significantly heavier than Bowser despite still being Isabelle-sized. Very slow and only one jump, but that one jump is higher than most characters' combined jump distance, and he can use it in midair provided he didn't initially enter the air via jumping. His air speed is also pretty decent, though nothing special.

He also hit ludicrously hard, and had some different moves that at this point I've completely forgotten. The idea was a heavier-than-superheavy with an insane punish game crammed into a tiny package.

He would've been the first ever Z-tier. 3S Twelve smiling down on him from bottom-tier heaven.

 

[fogbadge]

It still depends on what character it is. You can't just have a character like that just for the sake of it. What female character and male echo should they have?

digby for Isabel

 

[Wonder Smash]

digby for Isabel

That could work.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, that could work. Isabelle is already a semiclone so I'm not sure if that's a unique situation to get an echo for a semiclone. We could also potentially get male Octoling as the default with female alts to be a reverse Inkling scenario but I feel like the females are the more iconic look for both.

It's not that unique in practice.

Falcon was built off of Samus, and used to create Ganondorf. Ness was built off of Mario, and used to create Lucas. Albeit, Ness isn't a semi-clone either, but you get the idea.

Generally, it doesn't matter whether they were a semi-clone before or not when making an Echo. It's a matter of who the Echo best can use as a base. The base is basically a coincidence if they happen to be some kind of clone or not otherwise. So Black Shadow could potentially work as an Echo of Ganondorf(though only mildly, depending how many changes are needed) due to the bodyshape, or Blood Falcon of Captain Falcon, and so on.

--------------

On another note, Tom Nook also can work as an Echo of Isabelle, due to the same bodyshape.

 

[fogbadge]

It's not that unique in practice.

Falcon was built off of Samus, and used to create Ganondorf. Ness was built off of Mario, and used to create Lucas. Albeit, Ness isn't a semi-clone either, but you get the idea.

Generally, it doesn't matter whether they were a semi-clone before or not when making an Echo. It's a matter of who the Echo best can use as a base. The base is basically a coincidence if they happen to be some kind of clone or not otherwise. So Black Shadow could potentially work as an Echo of Ganondorf(though only mildly, depending how many changes are needed) due to the bodyshape, or Blood Falcon of Captain Falcon, and so on.

--------------

On another note, Tom Nook also can work as an Echo of Isabelle, due to the same bodyshape.

does that mean he can’t be an echo of villager?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Tabuu is maybe but compared to the rest of the roster, it makes sense especially when he is meant to be otherworldly being from another realm. Ironically makes him stand out from the rest of the roster.

It just makes him look like a glorified Fighting Polygon Team member.

Master Core maybe but that's just the end-portion. What about the rest of the fight?

Frankly, it should have been Giygas. Have the shapeshifting red cloud make up the monster form portions of the fight,

Master Fortress is dumb. Having a big ol' SSE level stuck at the end of a classic mode run makes no sense. And then for the end portion, have it be the core of the Devil's Machine instead of just a Smash logo.

Galeem and Dharkon represent the light and darkness that peers into the World of Imagination so their design also makes sense. It's even more apparent with Dharkon with him being a literal eyeball. Could also reference Zero and 02 from Kirby from the time Sakurai was still at HAL LAB.

Then just add Zero/O2 from Kirby instead!

I’d like to see a female original fighter with a male echo next time around

Not sure what difference the order makes. We have male/female echo combos, and male/female alt costume combos.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

does that mean he can’t be an echo of villager?

He cannot. He has a different bodyshape. Same issue as Isabelle. Basically, in later games, they redid Villager's model so it matches the other animal villagers. But Smash doesn't use that one, instead it uses an older model which is proportionally different. Isabelle otherwise could've worked as an Echo(perhaps Ken-like).

It's just one of those odd circumstances due to exactly when Villager was added.

 

[Momotsuki]

It just makes him look like a glorified Fighting Polygon Team member.

The Fighting Polygon Team is really cool too, though. I like them. Then again, I do happen to be a person who likes things.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Here's a question that I don't think has been touched upon too much here.
Regardless of what kind of game the next Smash is, would any of you predict/guess that there will be a larger focus/effort put into the game's post-launch development?
I ask this because it's obvious that so far, DLC has had a positive effect on a Smash game's longevity within the public eye, but on the other side of the coin, a lot of complaints for Ultimate in particular were focused on how early on in the game's post-launch lifecycle did they already drop adding new modes and non-Fighter's Pass/Mii Outfit content to the game.
I feel like it wouldn't be unprecedented to assume that there might be a larger team next time around working on updates and DLC, especially if it's a game where Everyone is Here doesn't happen again.

 

[Momotsuki]

Here's a question that I don't think has been touched upon too much here.
Regardless of what kind of game the next Smash is, would any of you predict/guess that there will be a larger focus/effort put into the game's post-launch development?
I ask this because it's obvious that so far, DLC has had a positive effect on a Smash game's longevity within the public eye, but on the other side of the coin, a lot of complaints for Ultimate in particular were focused on how early on in the game's post-launch lifecycle did they already drop adding new modes and non-Fighter's Pass/Mii Outfit content to the game.
I feel like it wouldn't be unprecedented to assume that there might be a larger team next time around working on updates and DLC, especially if it's a game where Everyone is Here doesn't happen again.

That'd be cool. It would also be nice if we weren't hung out to dry in the balance department. They dropped Sora and it was like they were scrambling to get the hell out of there. Fast-forward nearly two years and people want to ban the Minecraft guy.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Here's a question that I don't think has been touched upon too much here.
Regardless of what kind of game the next Smash is, would any of you predict/guess that there will be a larger focus/effort put into the game's post-launch development?
I ask this because it's obvious that so far, DLC has had a positive effect on a Smash game's longevity within the public eye, but on the other side of the coin, a lot of complaints for Ultimate in particular were focused on how early on in the game's post-launch lifecycle did they already drop adding new modes and non-Fighter's Pass/Mii Outfit content to the game.
I feel like it wouldn't be unprecedented to assume that there might be a larger team next time around working on updates and DLC, especially if it's a game where Everyone is Here doesn't happen again.

I would say that at worst, we would see the same amount of DLC as we did in Smash Ultimate.

Ultimate's DLC sold gangbusters. I doubt Nintendo is going to choose to...not make more money. Its hard to not see us getting two season passes of content at the very least.

I could also see us getting some other QoL changes through DLC. We got Small BF last time to make online cue better. I could see us getting other small QoL changes or even a new mode if we are lucky.

 

[StrangeKitten]

As a segue into a new topic, what are some things that people would like outside of the playable roster/stage selection?

Gonna bend the rules slightly here and start off with stage selection, because I think what I have to say is fitting here. I want far less returning stages, or if a lot of stages do return, some way to sort them. Trying to find the stage I want on a tiny Switch screen when there are over 100 is a hassle. Random stage select where I only have the stages I want turned on does help mitigate the problem, but it's still aggravating.

Likewise, I wish we had sorting options on the CSS. I still find it to be something of a confusing, jumbled mess. Putting every character in order of when they were added to Smash just isn't intuitive, even for someone like me who has been playing Smash since the N64 original.

I'd love to see Squad Strike expanded to maybe 10 fighters, while keeping the 3 and 5. 5-character is how I play almost exclusively, so that I can practice many characters. I'd love to see the amount I can use in a game increased.

I want unique break the targets back so bad. They'd be a really fun way to practice aspects of a character's kit, as well as movement, if I want a break from actual fighting. I'm well aware that it's a tall order with how many characters we now have, so a break the targets maker would also suffice. Heck, it might even be better, because then I'd have multiple I could go download for one character.

Boss rush really seems like a no-brainer. It's kinda baffling that it's not a mode already, considering it wouldn't take much work to throw together.

I want DLC alts and costumes for non-Mii characters. I'd easily spend 75c to a dollar here and there if they gave me a new costume I liked.

That'd be cool. It would also be nice if we weren't hung out to dry in the balance department. They dropped Sora and it was like they were scrambling to get the hell out of there. Fast-forward nearly two years and people want to ban the Minecraft guy.

Because a tech was found that allows him to negate hitstun, something which isn't too hard to pull off and if the Steve player fails to pull it off, they just take the combo as they normally would. That makes it so Steve can punish his opponent for winning neutral and hitting him. That's the thing that pushed a lot of people to be in favor of a ban. And it really is a shame that the balance team seems unwilling to come back. There wouldn't be ban talk if they patched it out, especially if they gave Steve some small nerfs along the way.

 

[fogbadge]

He cannot. He has a different bodyshape. Same issue as Isabelle. Basically, in later games, they redid Villager's model so it matches the other animal villagers. But Smash doesn't use that one, instead it uses an older model which is proportionally different. Isabelle otherwise could've worked as an Echo(perhaps Ken-like).

It's just one of those odd circumstances due to exactly when Villager was added.

well there goes my plan for having 4 AC characters with tom as the villagers echo and digby as issy's.

although i think they changed the model in the AC games cause they were adding in trousers. and personally i did like villager to be updated to this version

 

[Wonder Smash]

well there goes my plan for having 4 AC characters with tom as the villagers echo and digby as issy's.

although i think they changed the model in the AC games cause they were adding in trousers. and personally i did like villager to be updated to this version

But at least Digby could still work as Isabelle's echo.

3 Animal Crossing characters is not bad.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well there goes my plan for having 4 AC characters with tom as the villagers echo and digby as issy's.

although i think they changed the model in the AC games cause they were adding in trousers. and personally i did like villager to be updated to this version

Not that it wouldn't be nice, yeah. If it means more costume options, etc. Like, the best you could do right now is a different take on Villager with different costumes altogether and different items(including the Fishing Rod), but it's pretty well-covered by Isabelle, soooooo.

 

[Momotsuki]

I like the idea of Villager primarily representing the series pre-New Leaf and Isabelle primarily representing New Leaf and onward. The series definitely took on a different shape around that point so I think having vessels for both eras is nice.

 

[UberPyro64]

I don't think I elaborated on my idea of a Hisui Pokemon Trainer very well. Yes, there would be three Pokemon (Cyndaquil, Dewott, and Decidueye would be best imo), but the trainer would also play an active role. The Trainer would move around the stage a lot more and the player can make them do attacks in addition to the Pokemon that they are using, such as throwing items to stun or damage the opponent. They also dodge attacks and can be stunned somehow as well. It would be a neat way to show off Legends: Arceus's mechanics in Smash Bros and wouldn't just be a repeat of Pokemon Trainer. Plus, seeing the trainer and Pokemon fight together is cool.

 

[sal ig]

Here's a question that I don't think has been touched upon too much here.
Regardless of what kind of game the next Smash is, would any of you predict/guess that there will be a larger focus/effort put into the game's post-launch development?
I ask this because it's obvious that so far, DLC has had a positive effect on a Smash game's longevity within the public eye, but on the other side of the coin, a lot of complaints for Ultimate in particular were focused on how early on in the game's post-launch lifecycle did they already drop adding new modes and non-Fighter's Pass/Mii Outfit content to the game.
I feel like it wouldn't be unprecedented to assume that there might be a larger team next time around working on updates and DLC, especially if it's a game where Everyone is Here doesn't happen again.

Yes but also no mostly for the fact that nintendo does like money so I wouldnt be surprised if they demanded sakurai or the new director of the game to make even more new dlc for the game (also if "everyone is here" becomes a scrapt idea for the next game... they would probably milk the **** out of old returning veterans) but at some point with more dlc comes even more work and even more possible dedlines could be delayd slowing the game down on it's production and could also make impatient fans mad

 

[Pupp135]

Here's a question: If you could ask Sakurai any single question about any one Smash game, what would you ask him?

I’d like to know what Pra_mai is.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

(also if "everyone is here" becomes a scrapt idea for the next game... they would probably milk the **** out of old returning veterans)

This is exactly what i think is going to happen come the next smash.

Have cuts on the base roster but use DLC to bring in a mix of veterans and newcomers.

 

[RodNutTakin]

This is exactly what i think is going to happen come the next smash.

Have cuts on the base roster but use DLC to bring in a mix of veterans and newcomers.

I'd accept this if A: the amount of cuts isn't ridiculous, and B: the veteran DLC isn't treated on the same level as newcomer DLC (i.e. veterans wouldn't have anything near Challenger Pack levels of content and price with them) except if it's a third party character like Sephiroth or Steve being resold.
This is one of the main reasons why I'd want there to be a bigger and healthier development team for post-launch Smash going forward--besides the want of having extra modes or stages as free updates, I'd rather fans not have to worry about returning veterans "affecting" the newcomer DLC count or vice versa. People would most certainly complain about someone like Roy or Incineroar returning causing them to "waste a DLC slot".
That being said, this might be controversial, but I think first-party veterans should either be completely free updates, or multiple should return at once in a bundle if they absolutely HAD to be sold at some sort of price. And even then, it should be cheaper than a Challenger Pack.

 

[Momotsuki]

If Ultimate's successor is as similar to Ultimate as Ultimate is to Smash for I think charging for veterans would be close to inexcusable.

With Smash for's veteran DLC it was more reasonable seeing as Smash for was very different from the previous entries. No more than the others were from eachother, but still enough to where reintroducing a cut veteran is more than a simple port-over. Ultimate is a notable outlier in very clearly being built off of its predecessor.

Of course, if the next game is built off of Ultimate that would probably entail the continued lack of cuts anyhow, making this point moot. Veterans as paid DLC is fine if the next game is sufficiently different that a lot has to be redone from scratch. For example, I recall Sakurai mentioning that reintroducing veterans that didn't make the Smash for cut was similarly demanding to newcomers, as the code and assets were all too old to be reused.

 

[ShotoStar]

As a segue into a new topic, what are some things that people would like outside of the playable roster/stage selection?

Here are some things that I’d like:

Unranked Quickplay: This is my most wanted because I normally don’t like playing ranked modes

Expanded Squad Strike Modes: it would be cool to see elimination and tag team getting fleshed out into something like Smash Remix’s 12 Character Battle and Project M/+’s All-Star Smash.

These are some minor things that would be nice, but not as important to me.

Being able to have your fighter retained between matches.

Random Character Toggle: This is mostly just for fun in case I want to do random matches with a certain group of characters like Brawl cast only.

This is totally unrealistic because of how chaotic and taxing 8-player battles are, but 12-player battles could be fun to see (Super Smash Bros Rumble had it, and it was laggy, chaotic fun).

One massive thing I need is MORE MODES PLEASE. I can't tell you the amount of times I open Ultimate only to specifically play Smash Mode and nothing else. I've already completed every fighters classic mode twice and WoL thrice. I need something more to do besides those three things. And while they work on that, they should fix the online while they're at it. I know it may need some tweaking of the build/source code or whatever but games like this thrive on their online, their longevity relies on how well their online functions because not everybody can go to tournaments or play couch co-op.

 

[Sucumbio]

At least bring back target test I mean c'mon pleeeeese Nintendo!

 

[TheLamerGamer]

I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up before, but I'd personally love a rhythm game mode in smash. There are so many amazing songs in it, including remixes you can't have in any other games (except the FF7 ones in theatrhythm somehow). It'd be a stupid amount of work to make it actually good, but I'd probably end up playing it more than the main modes.

 

[MasterCheef]

One massive thing I need is MORE MODES PLEASE. I can't tell you the amount of times I open Ultimate only to specifically play Smash Mode and nothing else. I've already completed every fighters classic mode twice and WoL thrice. I need something more to do besides those three things. And while they work on that, they should fix the online while they're at it. I know it may need some tweaking of the build/source code or whatever but games like this thrive on their online, their longevity relies on how well their online functions because not everybody can go to tournaments or play couch co-op.

How do Mini games sound ?

1 MOST IMPORTANT ;

Mini Games

4 payload delivery
3 Volleyball
2 Mini-Golf
1 Soccer

WHY ? , Because this can draw the casuals who would be waay too intimidated by Smash's regular game-play , to be interested in the game.

also would be delighted with any other suggestions of casual friendly mini games.

 

[Momotsuki]

I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up before, but I'd personally love a rhythm game mode in smash. There are so many amazing songs in it, including remixes you can't have in any other games (except the FF7 ones in theatrhythm somehow). It'd be a stupid amount of work to make it actually good, but I'd probably end up playing it more than the main modes.

Honestly, just add some BPM metadata to every song and let rhythm be a fighter's gimmick. Lots of fun options on that front! Maybe a Rhythm Heaven character. Or Miku, but while she did debut as software she unfortunately technically isn't eligible. But it'd be cool!!

Bring on the song counterpicks and bans.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Honestly, just add some BPM metadata to every song and let rhythm be a fighter's gimmick. Lots of fun options on that front! Maybe a Rhythm Heaven character. Or Miku, but while she did debut as software she unfortunately technically isn't eligible. But it'd be cool!!

Bring on the song counterpicks and bans.

That'd be cool, but I'd still like a full rhythm mode where that's the only focus, maybe with stuff from the series in the background.

And, while not her debut, Miku does have a link to smash...

 

[Momotsuki]

And, while not her debut, Miku does have a link to smash...

I'm gonna be honest I think Miku is probably the non-video game character you can make the strongest case for. It's not going to happen, for obvious reasons, but still, if you had to pick one to pitch with a semi-straight face, I'd say it'd be her.

 

[MasterCheef]

Nintendo Switch Successor is Expected to Release in 2024, Microsoft Says

thoughts ?

Nintendo Switch Successor is Expected to Release in 2024, Microsoft Says

gamingbolt.com

 

[HyperSomari64]

I'm gonna be honest I think Miku is probably the non-video game character you can make the strongest case for. It's not going to happen, for obvious reasons, but still, if you had to pick one to pitch with a semi-straight face, I'd say it'd be her.

For me, Ken Griffey Jr. should have been the non-video game character to be represented in Smash.