Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Will]

Sometime during Ultimate speculation there was a fake leak where Meteos, a DS puzzle game Sakurai helped develop and alien race that kinda looked like the mites from SSE, was a newcomer.

It was so ****ing funny to me that I wanted it to be real. This is my joke character pick.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Are Isaac and Geno the big two old requests left?

There are other characters that are popular like Krystal, but I think Isaac and Geno may be a step above them.

Lloyd irving.

He's like the only third party request that isnt playable yet from the brawl era of character requests.

 

[Will]

Lloyd irving.

He's like the only third party request that isnt playable yet from the brawl era of character requests.

I miss Smash Flash 2 i wonder how that games doing

 

[HyperSomari64]

I miss Smash Flash 2 i wonder how that games doing

the Beta version 1.3.2.0. is in development and Lloyd is still having that old sprite that is showing it's age (since the first Beta version).

 

[MBRedboy31]

I miss Smash Flash 2 i wonder how that games doing

They‘re slowly working on new things, and they post about new stuff every Saturday. There isn’t anything huge announced for the next update yet (most significant things are the updated Meta Knight sprites and a couple fully resprited stages) but there’s also a whole bunch of miscellaneous animation improvements. Here’s today’s post:

For today's #ssf2 #screenshotsaturday we're checking out Pichu's new idle, courtesy of @Reminityblitz. The tiny mouse now happily waddles in-place.

(please note that due to the software used, the gif below has a few colouring glitches not present in the actual game) pic.twitter.com/E9Ab5wAuo2

— Super Smash Flash 2 Devs (@SmashFlashDevs) June 24, 2023

 

[Will]

the Beta version 1.3.2.0. is in development and Lloyd is still having that old sprite that is showing it's age (since the first Beta version).

Hasnt it been the same since the first one?

 

[dream1ng]

Perhaps the most baffling part of Isaac's popularity to me is how many non-fans will claim his popularity is practically nonexistent. I never saw this kind of thing nearly as much with other fan faves like Ridley, KRool, Geno, Banjo, etc. That is, where people would straight-up deny their popularity. There seems to be some weird effect going on where certain circles just don't pay any attention to Isaac for whatever reason, no matter how big he is everywhere else.

I'm not sure there's a character who's had such sustained popularity (obviously not always the same intensity, but just regular strong popularity) for so long have it overlooked as much as Isaac.

Lloyd irving.

He's like the only third party request that isnt playable yet from the brawl era of character requests.

Lloyd's demand has been more sustained, but Bomberman was very popular back then.

Having been revived with Super Bomberman R, he would've had more of a presence in Ultimate speculation if he wasn't AT'd right at the beginning. :/

 

[SPEN18]

The other huge thing that could help Isaac is that the other two first party characters who most rival his popularity level, Waluigi and Dee, may not need to get in via a dedicated "hardcore fan pick" slot. Both the Wah and Dee are very relevant (and probably will be for the foreseeable future) and both are from bigger series that may easily get newcomer slots dedicated specially to them.

This is perhaps the biggest hope for Isaac outside of getting a new game at some point: it seems reasonable to think that he would be at the top of the stack for a potential 1P fan pick slot.

 

[Opossum]

Perhaps the most baffling part of Isaac's popularity to me is how many non-fans will claim his popularity is practically nonexistent. I never saw this kind of thing nearly as much with other fan faves like Ridley, KRool, Geno, Banjo, etc. That is, where people would straight-up deny their popularity. There seems to be some weird effect going on where certain circles just don't pay any attention to Isaac for whatever reason, no matter how big he is everywhere else.

There's only like one other character I can think of who got something close to this, and it was Chrom.

Back during Smash 4, a lot of people tried to write how present he was in speculation off as "he's not really wanted, just expected" and calling him the flavor of the month pick. A lot of people were either in full-on denial or genuinely couldn't grasp that, yeah, he was wanted, and not just expected. And that popularity never really went away, even into the ballot era, which saved him come Ultimate. And his popularity in the Fire Emblem fanbase itself also never went away. But regardless, even today you'll still see the odd, and thankfully far less common, person claiming he's unpopular, though they're quickly shut down.

It's not an exact match for the myopia that often plagues Isaac, but it's probably the closest I can think of. And part of me has to wonder if it's at least partially based in anti-anime swordsmen sentiment.

Besides Chrom the closest one I can think of is the sect of people who write Waluigi off as a "meme pick" but those are usually very obvious trolls.

 

[Dinoman96]

Lloyd irving.

He's like the only third party request that isnt playable yet from the brawl era of character requests.

I can think of others, like Bomberman and Phoenix Wright.

 

[Pupp135]

Hasnt it been the same since the first one?

It’s the same one, and he’s probably the most requested in terms of resprites (I think Fox, Marth, and DK are pretty likely for resprites too as they haven’t been shown yet in terms of updates, and they still need their alts). I hope the devs come to Smash Con this year, so we can see what else they’ve working on.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Whether or not they actually do isn't the point. The point is that it absolutely tanks the public perception of likelihood, which in turn tanks support.

ATs are probably the worst thing your favorites could get speculation wise. You can't really talk about them because then it brings up the arguments of "ATs deconfirm for the rest of the game's life" and "No they don't" which just goes back and forth. Waluigi didn't even get his foot in for the last game before getting instantly deconfirmed, and Ashley experienced a passionate but short run before she got deconfirmed in August.

I'm hoping both of these rascals get in as fighters next time so I don't get deja vu

 

[Oracle Link]

Considering this thread is like half Nintendo social and there isnt a zelda social on smashboards and i just wanna share something cute here:

isnt this drawing cute i made it BTW! (And yes i did add two tentacles to Octorok i think its like the one thing superior in the ALTTP/ LA Remake design) Also Zelda 1 Wooden Sword cus pretty colors!
I just thought i make you happy!
What do you guys think?

 

[Nabbitfan730]

So, what characters are you hoping will be in the next Smash?

Other than characters like Geno, Shadow, Rival Octoling, Decidueye etc.

Piranha Plant Inclusion has shown me that I would love to see more mooks in Smash. Never got the controversy behind them nor the nonsensical mindset "It ruins what it means to get into Smash" as if rules haven't been broken already.

Jack Frost, Heartless, Rathalos, Boos, Egg Pawns, etc

I'm not saying litter the roster full of them like Mario Kart but long as they have a great design that doesn't border on the generic side and have a great moveset to work with then why not?

Mook and enemies are an important and iconic aspect of not just Nintendo but Gaming as a whole with some more popular than the actual characters themselves.

If Smash Bros wants to take the goal of being a "Celebration of Gaming" then it should represent more of gaming just the run-of-the-mill protags 90% of the roster is littered with and the occasional villain. Although more villains would be nice too.

 

[fogbadge]

Other than characters like Geno, Shadow, Rival Octoling, Decidueye etc.

Piranha Plant Inclusion has shown me that I would love to see more mooks in Smash. Never got the controversy behind them nor the nonsensical mindset "It ruins what it means to get into Smash" as if rules haven't been broken already.

Jack Frost, Heartless, Rathalos, Boos, Egg Pawns, etc

I'm not saying litter the roster full of them like Mario Kart but long as they have a great design that doesn't border on the generic side and have a great moveset to work with then why not?

Mook and enemies are an important and iconic aspect of not just Nintendo but Gaming as a whole with some more popular than the actual characters themselves.

If Smash Bros wants to take the goal of being a "Celebration of Gaming" then it should represent more of gaming just the run-of-the-mill protags 90% of the roster is littered with and the occasional villain. Although more villains would be nice too.

which heartless?

 

[Nabbitfan730]

which heartless?

I think of the common Flying/Solider Heartless as base or even a fusion in design but similar to Piranha Plant utilizes different moves from different species to form a current moveset.

 

[Oracle Link]

When it comes to mooks i think i dont have to say it...
2d Octorok the 3d ones are pretty forgetable but the 2d ones are one of the most iconic zelda things ever
Also they are cute!

 

[Soy_Man]

If Smash Bros wants to take the goal of being a "Celebration of Gaming" then it should represent more of gaming just the run-of-the-mill protags 90% of the roster is littered with and the occasional villain. Although more villains would be nice too.

Didn't they solve this problem with assist trophies? Maybe you don't want to see Snagret from Pikmin relegated to a non playable assist, instead of a fighter with a fully fledged moveset, but it still counts as representation. And considering that "mooks" tend to do have very little to work with, as well as the roles they play in their games, it seems more fitting that they'd be assist trophies.

 

[RileyXY1]

Assist Trophies are great for representing characters who don't have a lot to work with when it comes to moveset design.

 

[Sucumbio]

Assist Trophies are great for representing characters who don't have a lot to work with when it comes to moveset design.

Or in the case of Alucard where there's plenty to work with but the slots just aren't there. I really want him playable lol.

 

[RileyXY1]

Or in the case of Alucard where there's plenty to work with but the slots just aren't there. I really want him playable lol.

In fact Sakurai originally wanted Alucard to be the Castlevania rep, but he was scrapped in favor of Simon and Richter because he suddenly felt that a Belmont would be a better representative of the series.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I can think of others, like Bomberman and Phoenix Wright.

I dont think Phoenix was a popular fan request during the days of Smashbros brawl.
Since people's priorities were getting Megaman into the game.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I dont think Phoenix was a popular fan request during the days of Smashbros brawl.
Since people's priorities were getting Megaman into the game.

Same for Pac-Man with Lloyd.

 

[Speed Weed]

From what I've been able to grasp of Brawl spec.....Bomberman's probably the biggest third-party request left from that era. I do really hope he gets in one day

 

[Opossum]

Same for Pac-Man with Lloyd.

No. Pac-Man was absolutely not a big Brawl request and Lloyd was definitely the favorite for a Bandai-Namco character at the time. Back during Brawl a LOT of people were on the "he's a pizza slice" train of thought like Sakurai was.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Same for Pac-Man with Lloyd.

I actually remember very clearly that Lloyd was lumped in with Pacman as Namco characters who should get in, i dont remember ever seeing Phoenix's picture anywhere back then.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I actually remember very clearly that Lloyd was lumped in with Pacman as Namco characters who should get in, i dont remember ever seeing Phoenix's picture anywhere back then.

I remember people asking for Klonoa more than Pac-Man as the Namco mascot/Scrimblo rep.
(i was a small kid back then, don't judge me)

 

[Sucumbio]

I feel like Phoenix Wright was pretty over but has since fallen a bit, I would still like to see Ace Attorney get it's due.

 

[CannonStreak]

I can understand why Pac-Man would not have been the most requested Namco-Bandai character back in Brawl, but back then, I did try to make up a moveset for him at some point.

 

[Opossum]

The Brawl era was an incredibly different time. Third parties were seen as an exception and not the norm, and also under heavy rules. Snake was written off as a favor for Kojima, but the fanbase at large agreed third parties had to be one per company at most, had to have very strong Nintendo ties, and had to be the only character from their series.

So third party speculation largely centered around Sonic, Mega Man, Bomberman, the occasional Lloyd Irving, the even more occasional Travis Touchdown, and Geno. Very rarely someone might've brought up Nightmare due to "repaying the favor" from Soul Calibur having Link. Some would reminisce fondly on Banjo but ultimately brand him impossible.

 

[Perkilator]

No. Pac-Man was absolutely not a big Brawl request and Lloyd was definitely the favorite for a Bandai-Namco character at the time. Back during Brawl a LOT of people were on the "he's a pizza slice" train of thought like Sakurai was.

That…actually surprises me, mostly because of the existence of the Pac-Man World games. Even back in Brawl, he had those games plus the obvious arcade references to work with for a moveset.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The Brawl era was an incredibly different time. Third parties were seen as an exception and not the norm, and also under heavy rules. Snake was written off as a favor for Kojima, but the fanbase at large agreed third parties had to be one per company at most, had to have very strong Nintendo ties, and had to be the only character from their series.

So third party speculation largely centered around Sonic, Mega Man, Bomberman, the occasional Lloyd Irving, the even more occasional Travis Touchdown, and Geno. Very rarely someone might've brought up Nightmare due to "repaying the favor" from Soul Calibur having Link. Some would reminisce fondly on Banjo but ultimately brand him impossible.

Dont forget about Sora and "Cloud strife from final fantasy 7!"

 

[Opossum]

That…actually surprises me, mostly because of the existence of the Pac-Man World games. Even back in Brawl, he had those games plus the obvious arcade references to work with for a moveset.

Brawl era was also very much a time of people not looking past their biases and only going off their own experiences. There was a small sect of Pac-Man supporters but they were very much drowned out until roughly two years after Brawl launched.

Brawl era was also a time where people unironically pushed Sigurd because he was Sakurai's favorite FE character (he isn't) and he used a lance (he doesn't, at least not usually).

 

[osby]

Brawl era was also a time where people unironically pushed Sigurd because he was Sakurai's favorite FE character (he isn't) and he used a lance (he doesn't, at least not usually).

People putting words into Sakurai's mouth and lying about characters' original games to prove their point?

Boy, I'm glad we moved past those dark ages!

...wait.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Brawl era was also a time where people unironically pushed Sigurd because he was Sakurai's favorite FE character (he isn't) and he used a lance (he doesn't, at least not usually).

Smash fans not knowing jack and **** about Fire emblem.

The one constant no matter the era.

 

[Opossum]

Dont forget about Sora and "Cloud strife from final fantasy 7!"

I wasn't including these because they were considered troll requests on par with Goku by the majority of the fanbase lol. Like, literally anime character levels of unlikely.

 

[CannonStreak]

People putting words into Sakurai's mouth and lying about characters' original games to prove their point?

Boy, I'm glad we moved past those dark ages!

...wait.

Considering the following was probably never proven from what I know, I bet fans put words in Sakurai's mouth about Geno and lied about Sakurai wanting Geno, too?

 

[Opossum]

Brawl era misinformation was wild because so much of it stuck. To this day people will swear up and down that Peach, Pit, and Meowth were meant to be in Smash 64, and that Pit didn't get in because they had trouble programming his wings, because of a rogue wiki edit. None of those things are true and that was like the crux of 99% of Meowth support.

Considering the following was probably never proven from what I know, I bet fans put words in Sakurai's mouth about Geno and lied about Sakurai wanting Geno, too?

No, Sakurai having wanted to add Geno is an accurate, sourced statement.

 

[CannonStreak]

Brawl era misinformation was wild because so much of it stuck. To this day people will swear up and down that Peach, Pit, and Meowth were meant to be in Smash 64, and that Pit didn't get in because they had trouble programming his wings, because of a rogue wiki edit. None of those things are true and that was like the crux of 99% of Meowth support.

No, Sakurai having wanted to add Geno is an accurate, sourced statement.

Really?

Not that I am doubting you, but where was this said?

Anyways, I was just checking on that.

 

[Opossum]

Really?

Not that I am doubting you, but where was this said?

Anyways, I was just checking on that.

This interview. It's what resurrected Geno support post-ballot.

Here is Sakurai's quote on the Geno costume: https://t.co/kHCQVZaETJ pic.twitter.com/OQbBz9gIDj

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 23, 2018