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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Sucumbio

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I honestly never cared about the Activision half of Activision/Blizzard. I did buy WarCraft 3, StarCraft, StarCraft 2, and Diablo 3 and played a bit of Hearthstone. Other than that, I’m not sure I ever bought a game from the company. I do still love Blizzard’s characters but it is getting harder to separate the IP from the developer with the recent allegations.
Hmm... Blizzard goes back to like 91, Activision 79, Vivendi 96ish?...

As far as I can tell it started to go south after the merger (which I still don't think works in video game companies except solely for distribution not for creative content). So to me the solution is to fire the board hire new board members and offer golden parachutes to no one but rather turn the whole thing over to the fbi to handle. Either they step down and face the music or they can be fired but either way they gotta go.

Then it's back to work and with creative content being the obvious starting point let the game devs iunno develope games and stuff.

Seems they're dragging their feet!
 
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Wonder Smash

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I'm looking at Sakurai's tweets and I like how he talks about a game's release date and puts up a Smash pic to reference the game.

Just makes me think what it could have been for series that don't have playable characters or even Mii costumes in Smash. October could have had Ryu Hayabusa (in his classic outfit) fighting against a bunch of Warios on their motorcycles in New Pork City or New Donk City Hall.
 
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HyperSomari64

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For Ultimate's 3rd Anniversary (December 7th), i wish Nintendo releases as DLC a bundle with 3 brand new stages (not returning, new ones) and 99 new assist trophies (the number is a reference to Smash 64's year of release), and one of them is (and i'm not kidding) Dragon Ball's Goku and Marvel Comics' Iron Man, so people can say Smash finally broke the lifetime rule M.S. made, but non video game characters can only be assist trophies.
Oh, and Halo's Master Chief is an AT too.
 
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For Ultimate's 3rd Anniversary (December 7th), i wish Nintendo releases as DLC a bundle with 3 brand new stages (not returning, new ones) and 99 new assist trophies (the number is a reference to Smash 64's year of release), and one of them is (and i'm not kidding) Dragon Ball's Goku and Marvel Comics' Iron Man, so people can say Smash finally broke the lifetime rule M.S. made, but non video game characters can only be assist trophies.
Oh, and Halo's Master Chief is an AT too.
And Among Us Impostor along with Crewmates as Assist Trophy,
 

TCT~Phantom

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The best thing we can hope for for Ultimate's Third Anniversary is that we get a nice video or a good tweet. Don't expect much and you won't be disappointed. It seems outside of a skeleton balance team Ultimate is not getting much new content.

Would I like them to use Ancestral Step, Milky Way Wishes, and Ganon's Tower as the base for stages since we already have the backgrounds made and you could just make a simple layout? Sure. Do I think that will happen now? No way.
 

Perkilator

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For Ultimate's 3rd Anniversary (December 7th), i wish Nintendo releases as DLC a bundle with 3 brand new stages (not returning, new ones) and 99 new assist trophies (the number is a reference to Smash 64's year of release), and one of them is (and i'm not kidding) Dragon Ball's Goku and Marvel Comics' Iron Man, so people can say Smash finally broke the lifetime rule M.S. made, but non video game characters can only be assist trophies.
Oh, and Halo's Master Chief is an AT too.
And while you're at it, let's also add Eggman as a playable character! :4pacman:
 

Perkilator

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I'm currently working on a WoL fanfic that involves the DLC characters. I have no idea where they'll fit in yet, but here's what's going on so far:
  • Min Min and Pyra/Mythra appear in the prologue but are gonna reappear later in the story
  • Sora and Piranha Plant are currently joining Kirby
 

Sucumbio

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Do any of you play with items on? Or different settings?

My cousin played brawl with the size maxed out so 2 Iles was like all of fd...
 
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Rie Sonomura

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I'm currently working on a WoL fanfic that involves the DLC characters. I have no idea where they'll fit in yet, but here's what's going on so far:
  • Min Min and Pyra/Mythra appear in the prologue but are gonna reappear later in the story
  • Sora and Piranha Plant are currently joining Kirby
An idea: put Sephiroth on Galeem’s side to contrast Cloud canonically being on Dharkon’s side and as I guess a layer of added irony being another villain on Galeem’s side (the first being Bowser)

if you’re open to suggestions that is
 

Slime Scholar

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Do any of you play with items on? Or different settings?

My cousin played brawl with the size maxed out so 2 Iles was like all of fd...
I used to play primarily with them on, but turned them off a while back. They're nice to keep things casual, but I've found that in 1v1, they're less of a casual equalizer mechanic and more of a "rich get richer' mechanic where whoever gets more items... gets more items, because they help control the stage. This is especially the case with ATs.

For more than 2 people, items are still ideal IMO.
Anyone who genuinely believes that the allegations of abuse at Activision will affect Crash's chances at getting in Smash in any way needs to look up Koichi Sugiyama.

It seems pretty clear that Sakurai really doesn't care about the politics surrounding a character's inclusion. He publicly berated CERO twice for censoring Palutena in Smash 4 and getting Mai removed from the King of Fighters' Stadium. That's pretty significant when you consider the role of face and politeness in Japanese culture.

If Sakurai thinks Crash is a good fit for Smash, he'll add him into the game, even if he is owned by a company that has had massive internal problems completely separate from the development of Crash and his games.
People vastly overestimate how much the Japanese game industry, and consumers in general, care about Sugiyama’s politics.

Like, yes, he was awful. There's no way around that. But he was also, to my understanding, a pretty standard rightwing nationalist whose views were likely shared with a (depressing) number of people, and they ultimately had nothing to do with his work. That isn't even remotely comparable to what's been happening at ActiBlizz.

Speaking of which:
Nintendo has apparently joined Xbox and Playstation on the list of big companies who will be reevaluating their relationship with Activision.
 

dream1ng

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Don't think you ought to be casting companies who employ the services of Foxconn as worthwhile moral arbiters. They're going to conduct business with whoever will be beneficial for them. If a company is so mired by public backlash that associating with them becomes a liability, they'll distance themselves. But it's not due to moral uprightness, it's a fiduciary decision. And keep in mind that's not yet actually happened with any platform holder.

And on the flip side, companies will compromise their espoused morals if it means making a good deal of profit, like altering and perhaps censoring their products to appeal to more suppressive markets, such as the Chinese or Russian ones. Or, in some cases, the American market.

In one way or another, Activision-Blizzard will redeem themselves in the eyes of their colleagues long before Smash 6 comes around, because it's important for them to maintain those relationships. Whether that comes through actual necessary change, or making public-facing gestures that won't actually address the systemic problem is rather irrelevant for their partners. Activision isn't going to let their relationship with instrumental parties in the industry disintegrate long-term. All they need is for the heat to be off them to get back in bed together.

It's not really a hypothetical worth dwelling on, because the timing of the two events (the current schism and the next Smash) are so far apart. Though I get there's not a lot else going on right now.
 

Sucumbio

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Maybe Nintendo Sony and Playstation will carve it up like 3 kirbys at the same dinner table and only one plate.

Edit OT Is brawlhalla any good? They're rep ryu chun-li and akuma now...
 
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Wunderwaft

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People vastly overestimate how much the Japanese game industry, and consumers in general, care about Sugiyama’s politics.

Like, yes, he was awful. There's no way around that. But he was also, to my understanding, a pretty standard rightwing nationalist whose views were likely shared with a (depressing) number of people, and they ultimately had nothing to do with his work. That isn't even remotely comparable to what's been happening at ActiBlizz.

Speaking of which:
Nintendo has apparently joined Xbox and Playstation on the list of big companies who will be reevaluating their relationship with Activision.
That news article and Bowser's internal e-mails don't speak anything bright about the future of Nintendo and Activision's relationship. Unless Bobby and his gang of predators get booted out and the two companies mend their relationship, then I doubt we'll see Activision get involved in the next Smash game.
 

Nabbitfan730

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That news article and Bowser's internal e-mails don't speak anything bright about the future of Nintendo and Activision's relationship. Unless Bobby and his gang of predators get booted out and the two companies mend their relationship, then I doubt we'll see Activision get involved in the next Smash game.
Right here. Just saw a few moments ago. Couple with the fact Nintendo and Activision didn't have much of a strong relationship beforehand doesn't bode well for Crash. There is still time until the next Smash game for them to clean up shop but it looking unlikely rn.

 
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Simnm

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I think the next smash game will release aroune 2025 or 2026,i could see 2024 if the next smash game has a 2 year development cycle
 

Nabbitfan730

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Judging how the Switch has a few years to go. I doubt 2024. Also I hope that Sakurai gets more than 2 years cycle. Don't want the team to be put under pressure or to leave things out for later or not at all.
 

Simnm

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Judging how the Switch has a few years to go. I doubt 2024. Also I hope that Sakurai gets more than 2 years cycle. Don't want the team to be put under pressure or to leave things out for later or not at all.
I was saying that because of the fact that games like brawl and smash 4 had 2 year development cycles
 

ceterisparibus

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Doesn't have to be a deciding point to be a plus point. Just has to be contributory.
Of course, there's no harm in it. But i do see it being thrown around as the main reason for inclusion and it's pretty clear popularity/recognizability is a much stronger factor for smash inclusion given the many trends. Even terry (the poster boy for fun > recognizable, even through the quote has been overly misinterpretated) is the most iconic figure from SNK and was hence chosen over other historical picks like athena or ikari warriors, which obviously had history over it.

FF itself has a historical impact, so I don't see how that's even used as an example.

But a game having a historical impact is indeed a plus point for a series, which is why Sakurai mentions DOOM's impact on its genre in the first place. Therefore, it obviously does play a part in that series character getting in.
They went for FF7 first over the previous FF1-6, any other JRPG or even DQ (even through hero came later in ultimate dlc) because it sold the most and had a ton of spinoffs - Cloud strife is hugely iconic in the mainstream as a result of that. That should tell you how important they treat historically important or nintendo-afflicted as a dominant factor. Not to mention the whole lot of examples where they chose the more mainstream IPs over lesser titles with more legacy/history.

Also sakurai had to sell a product, he's not going to say "oh actually historically wolfenstein was the one which originated the genre since it came first, but doom is...". Doom isn't even a playable character so i dunno why you even brought in the "obviously played a part" thing. As in a mii costume, in which the pool is much bigger than that of actual playable characters and not as big of a deal?
 
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Gengar84

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Of course, there's no harm in it. But i do see it being thrown around as the main reason for inclusion and it's pretty clear popularity/recognizability is a much stronger factor for smash inclusion given the many trends. Even terry (the poster boy for fun > recognizable, even through the quote has been overly misinterpretated) is the most iconic figure from SNK and was hence chosen over other historical picks like athena or ikari warriors, which obviously had history over it.


They went for FF7 first over the previous FF1-6, any other JRPG or even DQ (even through hero came later in ultimate dlc) because it sold the most and had a ton of spinoffs - Cloud strife is hugely iconic in the mainstream as a result of that. That should tell you how important they treat historically important or nintendo-afflicted as a dominant factor. Not to mention the whole lot of examples where they chose the more mainstream IPs over lesser titles with more legacy/history.

Also sakurai had to sell a product, he's not going to say "oh actually historically wolfenstein was the one which originated the genre since it came first, but doom is...". Doom isn't even a playable character so i dunno why you even brought in the "obviously played a part" thing. As in a mii costume, in which the pool is much bigger than that of actual playable characters and not as big of a deal?
I would argue that Banjo-Kazooie getting in over Master Chief shows that there are many more factors for a character’s inclusion in Smash than sales alone. Banjo-Kazooie didn’t sell anywhere near Halo but Rare had a very close relationship with Nintendo back then. Of course, this was mainly due to fan support but it shows that a lot of people have fond memories of games they grew up playing on Nintendo consoles.

As for Brawlhala, I only downloaded it because I’m a huge Becky Lynch fan but it’s been pretty fun so far. Several of my other favorites like the Undertaker and Asuka are in as well. I wouldn’t say it is on the level of Smash, but it’s at least fun to mess around with for free. The characters have a much smaller move pool than Smash characters and their moves are pretty much entirely based on one of two weapons they can pick up and use mid fight.
 
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ceterisparibus

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I would argue that Banjo-Kazooie getting in over Master Chief shows that there are many more factors for a character’s inclusion in Smash than sales alone. Banjo-Kazooie didn’t sell anywhere near Halo but Rare had a very close relationship with Nintendo back then. Of course, this was mainly due to fan support but it shows that a lot of people have fond memories of games they grew up playing on Nintendo consoles.
That's fair, but i was talking about it from a genre-specific angle and the order of games in each genre included in smash. So the banjo/halo comparisons aren't really applicable in this scenario.
Plus fan demand is a separate thing altogether from historical impact.
 
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osby

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Just because a character isn't the absolute oldest possible option in their genre doesn't mean history didn't play a part in their inclusion.

There are a lot of games that didn't start a series but become the turning point that change the way people talk about it, Final Fantasy VII being one.
 

Gengar84

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That's fair, but i was talking about it from a genre-specific angle and the order of games in each genre included in smash. So the banjo/halo comparisons aren't really applicable in this scenario.
Plus fan demand is a separate thing altogether from historical impact.
Oh, I was going by the developer rather than the genre. As far as the genre goes, you do have a good point but I don’t think it is necessarily a hard rule that only the most iconic character per genre is chosen. I can’t really think of any examples other than Terry that contradict this but you already addressed that. The other examples are first party characters like Min Min and Pyra getting in over more iconic third party options but there is an obvious reason for that, being primarily a Nintendo crossover. Still, I don’t believe it is a wasted effort to support less iconic characters for Smash. If we can generate enough support for the characters we love, it could be enough to overcome the hurdle of lesser sales.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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Just because a character isn't the absolute oldest possible option in their genre doesn't mean history didn't play a part in their inclusion.

There are a lot of games that didn't start a series but become the turning point that change the way people talk about it, Final Fantasy VII being one.
I was going to say this. Doom might not be the oldest, that’s Wolfenstein (even though it’s made by the same developer), but Doom has both Legacy for bringing the genre of FPS mainstream and and absurd amount popularity for decades now.
 

ForsakenM

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That news article and Bowser's internal e-mails don't speak anything bright about the future of Nintendo and Activision's relationship. Unless Bobby and his gang of predators get booted out and the two companies mend their relationship, then I doubt we'll see Activision get involved in the next Smash game.
PR speak is just that. Remember when BLM was trashing towns and burning property to the ground while attacking, maiming and killing people who were just trying to defend their businesses? Well Nintendo put out a PR statement talking about supporting BLM and I think they even donated a very small fraction of money, but we all know it was nothing more than clearing their bases since the mobs on social media were essentially making a list of companies to boycott if they didn't do some PR speak and they wanted to look good at the time.

Now I won't say that they WON'T pull out from working with Activision, but I feel like he is speaking for NoA and not entirely for NoJ, and money often speaks louder than actions or words. Also, it's highly likely that this negotiation already transpired, successfully or not. If it was successful, I highly doubt they would ruin what plans they have in the future and deals already made and set in stone over something like this, especially when Japan is very much removed from it.

I may be wrong, but I think this is also mostly a Blizzard thing in terms of it being people from the Blizzard side pre-merger causing these issues. This could very much be like Square Enix where the two sides mainly do their own thing, so Activision might be able to shake some of this off their shoulders and shine through while working through this horrible crap that went on.

Also DarthEnderX DarthEnderX I think it's you that has the bad take on this. Essentially, you don't want the #1 character on the MegaSmash Poll and a character people really hyped and people both within and outside of Smash really would like to see because you want to...punish a AAA company for having horrible people do horrible things? You do realize that's what the court of law is for, right? That isn't our job, nor is it Nintendo's job. Nintendo's job is to make and sell games and gaming-related products. Glad to know you are the kind of person who would punish the many for the actions of a few. We've hit a new level of gatekeeping characters, but somehow we didn't gatekeep Dragon Quest when the composer is the Japanese equivalent of actually believe the 'Hitler did nothing wrong' meme and completely disowns very similar acts done on a way more massive scale during war time.

Like, you DO know that if Nintendo says 'We were gonna get Crash, but Acti/Blizz is run by nasty people, so we changed our minds' that it will not go over well with everyone because many folks can separate these two incidents, right? Especially since Crash isn't even their own creation? I think people would be more upset if Tracer got in over Crash in this scenario. It's not like the garbage bags of humans beings working at Blizzard directly make money from a deal like that anyway, and if Nintendo pulls out support for Activision that doesn't mean they would stop EVERYTHING with them and especially not things already in the works.

If Crash hasn't been agreed upon yet, as brutal and awful as it sounds, this is actually really good leverage for negotiations now that I think about it. 'Hey, I know you guys are looking really awful in the PR Department right now, what with Vanguard being awful and all the actual misogyny you guys practiced, but you guys are pushing through to make it better...you know, getting Crash in Smash would really add to helping your image! How about you say yes to our price, not sure you have much room to negotiate here, being know as the scumball company and all.'

Basically, Crash can still get in Smash even in a situation like this, and if he does I'll stand up for Crash fans when people gun after the character for something the company did.
 
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osby

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PR speak is just that. Remember when BLM was trashing towns and burning property to the ground while attacking, maiming and killing people who were just trying to defend their businesses? Well Nintendo put out a PR statement talking about supporting BLM and I think they even donated a very small fraction of money, but we all know it was nothing more than clearing their bases since the mobs on social media were essentially making a list of companies to boycott if they didn't do some PR speak and they wanted to look good at the time.
Can we go a week without an epic gamer moment?
 

Sucumbio

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It did not really happened. When big manifestations like BLM, or Les Gilets Jaunes in France back in 2018, while normal people were manifesting, rioters took advantage of that to riot while putting the blame on the manifestation currently ongoing to not face consequences.
Yeah.... I...

How about we don't bring up major issues in a topic about discussing whether a video game character is going to be in a cute crossover, because the former has nothing to do with business relationships or Crash.
This.

It's like pick your examples with some forethought otherwise you're really not doing yourself any good... PR.
 

Gengar84

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Yeah.... I...



This.

It's like pick your examples with some forethought otherwise you're really not doing yourself any good... PR.
Yeah, can we please try to be a little more respectful of each other around here? I was probably the biggest Blizzard fan on this board before the allegations and I would never personally attack someone just because they don’t think Activision/Blizzard should get a character. I think that’s a perfectly understandable reaction given the circumstances. I won’t lie, I’d still be hyped for a WarCraft or StarCraft character in Smash but I get why people wouldn’t want to support such a horrible company at this stage. That’s why I’m hoping they actually do something to address their problems so we can go back to just rooting for our favorite characters without all the drama.
 
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ForsakenM

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Yeah, can we please try to be a little more respectful of each other around here? I was probably the biggest Blizzard fan on this board before the allegations and I would never personally attack someone just because they don’t think Activision/Blizzard should get a character. I think that’s a perfectly understandable reaction given the circumstances. I won’t lie, I’d still be hyped for a WarCraft or StarCraft character in Smash but I get why people wouldn’t want to support such a horrible company at this stage. That’s why I’m hoping they actually do something to address their problems so we can go back to just rooting for our favorite characters without all the drama.
I'm not supporting a company who is horrible, I'm supporting fans who are great who want a character that is great and has a legacy that earns a spot in Smash. I won't let people who want to stop that from happening because a stupid company full of crappy people happens to own that character.

These are two separate things that just HAPPEN to involve the same company, and people want to now gatekeep a character suddenly because it's 'morally correct' when the only thing morally correct is that Bobby and Friends get their due justice for being asshats.

No one gatekept Dragon Quest due to Sugiyama.

No one gatekept Three Houses because of Christopher Niosi.

People tried to gatekeep Rayman over allegations that I STILL believe are just allegations with no proof, and it didn't work and won't work, and neither will this.

I'm not even sure I want to be lectured about morality from people who agreed with the masses and wrote off people like Nairo or Zero without real evidence from both sides just because you have to 'believe victims' when actual study would show that Jisu and CaptainZack were manipulative and liars...but I digress. I'll try to keep my opinion about justice and injustice out of this thread because that's not what this thread is meant for, but perhaps in exchange we can keep morality talks and gatekeeping characters because of it out too?

Yeah.... I...



This.

It's like pick your examples with some forethought otherwise you're really not doing yourself any good... PR.
It doesn't change the fact that these people were showing up and claiming to be BLM and then committed these acts. If you think these things aren't true, you aren't digging enough on your own. We just had a whole week or so about a trial in the US that proved what went down in Kenosha at that time was insane and that people from across the States went there with the intent to cause destruction.

However, my point was merely that Nintendo did a social media post and donated a tiny fraction of their worth just so that people on social media didn't drag them. This was also very much a NoA thing, not a NoJ thing, and it was purely for timely PR. Thus, Nintendo is know for saying or doing things to make them look good in the public eye while not actually truly committing to what those people or groups are about, and thus this can just be words to make Nintendo look good while in reality they will still work with Activision.

I'll make sure not to bring up stuff like this in the future in this thread, I'm merely bring it up again to clarify the purpose of my statement. It doesn't really belong in this thread, regardless of stances or politics.

EDIT: My bad S Sucumbio I think I quoted the wrong person.
 
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Wunderwaft

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PR speak is just that. Remember when BLM was trashing towns and burning property to the ground while attacking, maiming and killing people who were just trying to defend their businesses? Well Nintendo put out a PR statement talking about supporting BLM and I think they even donated a very small fraction of money, but we all know it was nothing more than clearing their bases since the mobs on social media were essentially making a list of companies to boycott if they didn't do some PR speak and they wanted to look good at the time.

Now I won't say that they WON'T pull out from working with Activision, but I feel like he is speaking for NoA and not entirely for NoJ, and money often speaks louder than actions or words. Also, it's highly likely that this negotiation already transpired, successfully or not. If it was successful, I highly doubt they would ruin what plans they have in the future and deals already made and set in stone over something like this, especially when Japan is very much removed from it.

I may be wrong, but I think this is also mostly a Blizzard thing in terms of it being people from the Blizzard side pre-merger causing these issues. This could very much be like Square Enix where the two sides mainly do their own thing, so Activision might be able to shake some of this off their shoulders and shine through while working through this horrible crap that went on.

Also DarthEnderX DarthEnderX I think it's you that has the bad take on this. Essentially, you don't want the #1 character on the MegaSmash Poll and a character people really hyped and people both within and outside of Smash really would like to see because you want to...punish a AAA company for having horrible people do horrible things? You do realize that's what the court of law is for, right? That isn't our job, nor is it Nintendo's job. Nintendo's job is to make and sell games and gaming-related products. Glad to know you are the kind of person who would punish the many for the actions of a few. We've hit a new level of gatekeeping characters, but somehow we didn't gatekeep Dragon Quest when the composer is the Japanese equivalent of actually believe the 'Hitler did nothing wrong' meme and completely disowns very similar acts done on a way more massive scale during war time.

Like, you DO know that if Nintendo says 'We were gonna get Crash, but Acti/Blizz is run by nasty people, so we changed our minds' that it will not go over well with everyone because many folks can separate these two incidents, right? Especially since Crash isn't even their own creation? I think people would be more upset if Tracer got in over Crash in this scenario. It's not like the garbage bags of humans beings working at Blizzard directly make money from a deal like that anyway, and if Nintendo pulls out support for Activision that doesn't mean they would stop EVERYTHING with them and especially not things already in the works.

If Crash hasn't been agreed upon yet, as brutal and awful as it sounds, this is actually really good leverage for negotiations now that I think about it. 'Hey, I know you guys are looking really awful in the PR Department right now, what with Vanguard being awful and all the actual misogyny you guys practiced, but you guys are pushing through to make it better...you know, getting Crash in Smash would really add to helping your image! How about you say yes to our price, not sure you have much room to negotiate here, being know as the scumball company and all.'

Basically, Crash can still get in Smash even in a situation like this, and if he does I'll stand up for Crash fans when people gun after the character for something the company did.
I'm not gonna bother replying to your BLM comments since I don't want to derail this thread, but I will at least say there's a big difference between Sugiyama having ****ty views and Activision imploding so badly that the god damn US government decided to interfere. Activision's situation actually made Nintendo revaluate their relationship with the company, this could (and probably will) impact internal discussions on whether to include characters owned by Activision in the next Smash game.
 

Gengar84

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I'm not supporting a company who is horrible, I'm supporting fans who are great who want a character that is great and has a legacy that earns a spot in Smash. I won't let people who want to stop that from happening because a stupid company full of crappy people happens to own that character.

These are two separate things that just HAPPEN to involve the same company, and people want to now gatekeep a character suddenly because it's 'morally correct' when the only thing morally correct is that Bobby and Friends get their due justice for being asshats.

No one gatekept Dragon Quest due to Sugiyama.

No one gatekept Three Houses because of Christopher Niosi.

People tried to gatekeep Rayman over allegations that I STILL believe are just allegations with no proof, and it didn't work and won't work, and neither will this.

I'm not even sure I want to be lectured about morality from people who agreed with the masses and wrote off people like Nairo or Zero without real evidence from both sides just because you have to 'believe victims' when actual study would show that Jisu and CaptainZack were manipulative and liars...but I digress. I'll try to keep my opinion about justice and injustice out of this thread because that's not what this thread is meant for, but perhaps in exchange we can keep morality talks and gatekeeping characters because of it out too?



It doesn't change the fact that these people were showing up and claiming to be BLM and then committed these acts. If you think these things aren't true, you aren't digging enough on your own. We just had a whole week or so about a trial in the US that proved what went down in Kenosha at that time was insane and that people from across the States went there with the intent to cause destruction.

However, my point was merely that Nintendo did a social media post and donated a tiny fraction of their worth just so that people on social media didn't drag them. This was also very much a NoA thing, not a NoJ thing, and it was purely for timely PR. Thus, Nintendo is know for saying or doing things to make them look good in the public eye while not actually truly committing to what those people or groups are about, and thus this can just be words to make Nintendo look good while in reality they will still work with Activision.

I'll make sure not to bring up stuff like this in the future in this thread, I'm merely bring it up again to clarify the purpose of my statement. It doesn't really belong in this thread, regardless of stances or politics.

EDIT: My bad S Sucumbio I think I quoted the wrong person.
I don’t know if you were specifically targeting me with the ZeRo comment but I thought I made myself clear that I didn’t want to jump to conclusions just because I read something on the internet. If the allegations against him turn out to be true, then I don’t agree with welcoming him back. Either way, this isn’t really the place for that discussion so I’ll leave it there.
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
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I'm not gonna bother replying to your BLM comments since I don't want to derail this thread, but I will at least say there's a big difference between Sugiyama having ****ty views and Activision imploding so badly that the god damn US government decided to interfere. Activision's situation actually made Nintendo revaluate their relationship with the company, this could (and probably will) impact internal discussions on whether to include characters owned by Activision in the next Smash game.
Could it also impact future ActiBlizz games being released on switch period?
 

Sucumbio

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I'm not supporting a company who is horrible, I'm supporting fans who are great who want a character that is great and has a legacy that earns a spot in Smash. I won't let people who want to stop that from happening because a stupid company full of crappy people happens to own that character.

These are two separate things that just HAPPEN to involve the same company, and people want to now gatekeep a character suddenly because it's 'morally correct' when the only thing morally correct is that Bobby and Friends get their due justice for being asshats.

No one gatekept Dragon Quest due to Sugiyama.

No one gatekept Three Houses because of Christopher Niosi.

People tried to gatekeep Rayman over allegations that I STILL believe are just allegations with no proof, and it didn't work and won't work, and neither will this.

I'm not even sure I want to be lectured about morality from people who agreed with the masses and wrote off people like Nairo or Zero without real evidence from both sides just because you have to 'believe victims' when actual study would show that Jisu and CaptainZack were manipulative and liars...but I digress. I'll try to keep my opinion about justice and injustice out of this thread because that's not what this thread is meant for, but perhaps in exchange we can keep morality talks and gatekeeping characters because of it out too?



It doesn't change the fact that these people were showing up and claiming to be BLM and then committed these acts. If you think these things aren't true, you aren't digging enough on your own. We just had a whole week or so about a trial in the US that proved what went down in Kenosha at that time was insane and that people from across the States went there with the intent to cause destruction.

However, my point was merely that Nintendo did a social media post and donated a tiny fraction of their worth just so that people on social media didn't drag them. This was also very much a NoA thing, not a NoJ thing, and it was purely for timely PR. Thus, Nintendo is know for saying or doing things to make them look good in the public eye while not actually truly committing to what those people or groups are about, and thus this can just be words to make Nintendo look good while in reality they will still work with Activision.

I'll make sure not to bring up stuff like this in the future in this thread, I'm merely bring it up again to clarify the purpose of my statement. It doesn't really belong in this thread, regardless of stances or politics.

EDIT: My bad S Sucumbio I think I quoted the wrong person.
No it's cool and I get it I'm just saying when you post think a bit first... You're a book writer on this site so I figure you must have lots of thoughts to organize. That's actually great, wall of text posters are rare these days.

It may seem unfair but your position is not wrong and actually defended quite well just that by making the point by virtue of your examples instead of the other way around you've just maked them cringe at best (forgive) trolling at worst(sigh).

So my advice isn't to change who you are but to keep from using this... language.
 

Gengar84

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Messages
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Could it also impact future ActiBlizz games being released on switch period?
I don’t think it will have much an impact on the immediate future but if things continue to get worse instead of better I could see it having an impact down the line. I feel like the company probably makes too much money to ban their games outright but if Sony and Microsoft end up blocking their games, I can see Nintendo doing the same down the line.

As far as Crash fans go, I don’t think there is anything wrong with loving a character separate from everything going on with their developer/IP holder. As I mentioned before, I would still love a WarCraft or StarCraft character for the next Smash. As long as we’re open to opposing views, I don’t think there is a problem with supporting a character for any reason. At the same time, I feel like it is fine for anyone to not want a character for any reason as well. Just try to be respectful about it and try not to put someone down just because they don’t feel the same way.
 
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Wonder Smash

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Messages
653
They went for FF7 first over the previous FF1-6, any other JRPG or even DQ (even through hero came later in ultimate dlc) because it sold the most and had a ton of spinoffs - Cloud strife is hugely iconic in the mainstream as a result of that. That should tell you how important they treat historically important or nintendo-afflicted as a dominant factor. Not to mention the whole lot of examples where they chose the more mainstream IPs over lesser titles with more legacy/history.
And with Cloud and FF7 having both of those, I don't see why that's used as an example.

Also sakurai had to sell a product, he's not going to say "oh actually historically wolfenstein was the one which originated the genre since it came first, but doom is...". Doom isn't even a playable character so i dunno why you even brought in the "obviously played a part" thing. As in a mii costume, in which the pool is much bigger than that of actual playable characters and not as big of a deal?
It's not whether or not Doom Slayer is playable, it's how much Sakurai values a series legacy and influence. Though in that case, you don't even need Doom to see that, as Sakurai would talk about how much of an influence other series such as those by SNK are and Fatal Fury got in before the much more well-known Tekken series had a playable character.

But still, despite being from the more "recognizable" series, Dragonborn is still a Mii costume, no different from Doom Slayer. Plus, both were in the same pass, so it's not like his series recognition gave him any kind of special treatment over Doom Slayer anyway. Also, again, like I said, Doom Slayer has become a popular pick among the Smash fanbase. Him being a Mii costume would likely increase his popularity even more.
 
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Sucumbio

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I still see historical impact being raised around like a plus point despite it hardly being the deciding point for many of the playable characters chosen (poor smt, virtual fighter and the pre-7 final fantasy. At least DQ got in but not before ff7 in the end).

It's gonna be dragonborn because that game is actually recognizable in japan, clearly showed by its greater than 10k sales over there. If we even get one to begin with.
I see the original cast being Nintendo's Legacy characters and everyone else

delish-gluten-free-gravy-027-1541450603.jpg


... regardless of how or why they're "in." Clearly when a chance arises they seize it like with Sora or pander like with FE.
 
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