Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[ForsakenM]

So I didn't communicate my point super well here as it was late and I was rambling tbh. But, note that my header for Smash said same or smaller. What I meant was that I don't really see it getting BIGGER at this point. I mean how can it? I think things would largely stay the same with an enhanced port, but also that there is a chance at a (slight) decline if they go the route of reinvention/reimagination. I don't think it is a given that an enhanced port is going to happen, but I do agree that it is a very real possibility. Regardless of what actually happens though I think the people predicting doom and gloom for the future of Smash are being ridiculous. I don't mean to imply that Smash doesn't have a future, simply that it is hard to imagine the series continuing to grow in the way that we've become accustomed to. Much like Mario, Zelda, or Pokemon, I believe Smash is here to stay regardless of the direction Nintendo takes with it going forward.

Don't worry about your post giving off a 'doom and gloom' vibe because it definitely didn't feel that way, I was just surprised you didn't think Smash could get bigger, but now I get a better idea of where you are coming from: If I understand correctly, essentially, you think that Smash either sees a port (which in your eyes means 'same' in terms of growth) or a brand new game that cuts out most of the characters people really wanted (which is obviously regression, not progression), thus it has no wrong to grow and get bigger.

I disagree that a port would mean Smash couldn't get bigger, and I will elaborate on this here for everyone to get an idea as of why I believe that not only is a glorified port going to happen, but is the optimal choice for Smash at this current stage.

First thing and most obviously, 'Everyone Is STILL Here!' would sell the absolute crap out of an 'Ultimate Deluxe' or what have you. Even if it's totally an UMvC3 to MvC3 situation where it's essentially the same game but patched and updated in certain ways like UI, frame rate and resolution and has more characters, stages, music, modes and more...I don't think it will have any problem selling on a next-gen console. UMvC3's biggest issue was that MvC3 was enjoyable but in some ways felt unpolished, and then Capcom pulled 1990's in 2011 and instead of just doing a major patch, they release UMvC3 as an exclusive physical release...despite making Street Fighter 4: Arcade Edition have a downloadable update option in Dec of 2010...

See, we likely won't see anything on Smash, port or not, for a couple years. MvC3 dropped in Feb of 2011 and UMvC3 was in Nov of 2011: only eight months to enjoy your game before it becomes completely outdated, and this was after eleven years of waiting for a sequel, mind you. People were pissed and I think it was justified. I was one of those people who were talking boycott unless and until there was a downloadable update option...but then all the new character additions leaked, and that fell apart almost instantly. Thus, if a scummy and behind-the-times tactic like that can succeed in a community when they are upset about it, I'm positive an Ultimate Deluxe will have no issues being an exclusive update on a Next-Gen Switch since people think they will be waiting longer and will be happy to accept the entire roster back plus more.

Having years to wait is also very much in Smash's favor because, as we have seen with Sakurai and the team he works with, they can do incredible things in a short period of time. If they are using Ultimate as a base, then the number of improvements they can make for a more advanced console is rather high, consider Ultimate needed it's own engine just for the Switch. I can only imagine the graphical improvements alone would be impressive enough, but if you remember there are things like K. Rool only loading half of his model at any time that were shortcuts needed to take because of the system limits, so I think that an Ultimate Deluxe would not only look incredible compared to current Ultimate but also have a lot of major touch-ups and just overall run better.

Now, I hope no one forgot, but Deluxe actually had a lot of major updates that were patched in with DLC. Stage Builder was not base game, and while it makes improvements, it also feels limited by today's standards. So was Video Editor...and Online Tourneys...and Event Tourneys...and the VR Mode...as well as multiple quality of life improvements. This shows to me clear signs of meeting a deadline, and if Ultimate Deluxe gets to have a couple years in the oven, we could easily see the return of modes like Boss Rush, Smash Run, Break The Targets, perhaps even Trophies and Trophy Rush returning, though maybe Spirit Rush would be more likely? Wouldn't it be awesome to have more variety in WoL? What about maybe more cut-scenes? Maybe we get a whole new mode, who knows, Sakurai and his recent team are incredibly talented and considering they would have the majority of the game done via it being an enhanced port perhaps they could do a lot.

There are a lot of people who think Ultimate is nigh-perfect the way it is right now, so making it roughly the same and only adding to it would make major sales for sure, especially if you give people the proper incentives. It's kinda anti-consumer, but imagine Ultimate with a bunch of QoL changes, updates, and many of the characters people talked about during Ultimate's run but didn't get in...people would slam another $60 for a better version of the same game they already spent over $100 on easy. You also have to figure that it would be on massively improved hardware, which also gives massive points in favor of people wanting to buy the game.

And I can tell you that there are two characters they can reveal first that would lock in so many pre-orders it would make your head spin so fast you might lift into orbit: The Wah and The Marsupial. It would be super easy to market as well, and you could hold the reveal of new characters for a Smash Direct if you really wanted to, but do you know what would happen if Waluigi was playing Mario Party in a trailer and then suddenly he gets the March 2018 treatment? What about a trailer like Smash 4's reveal where you just see how much better it looks than Ultimate did on Switch with showing off subtle chances, and just like when you thought it was over and we got Megaman, Crash Spins Into Battle! I can't think of any better way to gob-smack your audience into buying a new console harder than that, and the crazy thing is that while Waluigi appeals to the Smash Fanbase, he's also gotten bigger in the gaming sphere in general, and Crash's revival made him a strong contender in the Smash sphere...so either one of these as your first reveal lets people know you aren't screwing around.

After that, mixing up long-term requests with picks that got big during Ultimate's run would be the perfect blend. Could people even handle themselves if the wacky wahoo pizza guy got into an Ultimate port in the base roster? What about Nintendo's favorite forest-dwelling Lost Boy? Diddy's girl finally gets in after all these years? Holy shi-za, how did they get Chief in the base game!? Toss in the blue-capped spearman and the long-time furry bait, sprinkle a half-genie hero or a slipper-wearing skeleton in there, perhaps a Golden Boy or a Star-Sent Savior?

See, some people call it being greedy or insatiable, like the community can never be pleased no matter what. While there is some reality to this, the REAL truth is that so many requests have been sitting around for so long and are still waiting that the list just gets that long naturally. Getting your character is like waiting at the DMV except that you have to wait LITERALLY years for your turn to get called to the desk. When you look at the DLC for Ultimate, it's clear there was a lot of Nintendo making business-focused picks, and we know Sakurai was pressured into Steve and Kazuya even if he may have had some desire to put them in. When you tie in all these names that basically no one in the Smash community who have been following since 1999 have asked for getting in with how we got three in-house picks with only really one of them having any demand, it's an equation for dissatisfaction and it's completely justified...especially when the base game told a very different tale for the future. Capitalizing on this in the next title is massively important, and I doubt Sakurai will miss out on this opportunity.

Lastly, something people need to consider is that game dev takes time, and Kimishima was the Big Man On Campus from 2015 shortly after Iwata's passing until he stepped down in June of 2018. Kimishima proclaimed himself a business man, so he made business decisions. It's very likely that many of the DLC picks (if not all of them) happen when he was in charge...but if you notice something, Nintendo recently feels like they are starting to make some sort of change. Oct 2018 gives us Super Mario Party and people were unhappy with it and wanted old Mario Party back...and now we have Mario Party Superstars. People were complaining about SwiSh being rushed an unpolished and that GameFreak needs to outsource more...suddenly, BDSP is done entirely out-of-house and GameFreak is making something akin to what Pokemon fans have been asking for 15 years in the making. FreeMelee went crazy for a bit and then disappeared into the wind, but people were upset that Nintendo wouldn't officially sponsor Ultimate or Melee tournaments unless it was part of their weird esports scene despite decades of grassroots success...magically, Nintendo collabs with Panda Global to make the FIRST OFFICIAL Smash Circuit, and it FEATURES MELEE! People wanted true 3D Kirby for so long many forgot they wanted it until the rumors came about and people were mostly disappointed with Kirby Star Allies...BAM, 3D Kirby is REAL! We still have rumors about many others titles, both old and new, that Nintendo is doing stuff with that could very easily follow the path of becoming reality and likely will and, while I can't give him ALL the credit, to me it all comes back to Furakawa being in charge.

I'm convinced we are seeing the last remnants of decisions that Kimishima was spearheading, and that we are charging forth into the era of Furakawa, a man who loves gaming and praises older-era Nintendo. I think we are starting to see his decisions coming into play, and it very much seems to be an era where the consumer and the fans are being listened to attentively. Many of Furakawa's favorite games are SNES games and he thinks the SNES Era up to the Gamecube Era was Nintendo at their finest. He already gave two delays for games that we have gotten and were better for the delay and he believes in more creator freedom and less pressure. It's straight from his mouth that he wants to pursue DLC more and that the Next-Gen Switch is in the planning stages for announcement and release, so I'm convinced that these big decisions that are rolling out that people are nearly unanimous in approval of are stemming somehow from him deciding the company should change the way they do some things.

Time to throw out another timeline claim that people can laugh at me for being wrong in the future: I originally said 3-4 years, but upon reflection and discussion, I think we could see the Next-Gen Switch as early as next year. The fact that we have companies pretty much lying about not having 4K dev kits, that Furakawa admitted the console is essentially done and they are just deciding when to announce and release it, and the fact that the Switch is far behind in hardware which makes is more difficult to make games for those who are trying to be multi-platform...it just all adds up that I think they decided to push forward a the Next-Gen Switch sooner than possibly originally planned, though if true, I think Nintendo is better off catching up in hardware while their competitor's new consoles are still very young (PS5 and Series X are both about a year old right now) so they can capitalize not only on being close to (if not actually equivalent to) their competitors in hardware well before the next upgrade cycle but also capitalize on the fact that barely anyone has these others consoles and that they have very few big sellers in terms of games.

Imagine Next-Gen Switch coming out with a new Mario game, new Smash, maybe even a new Zelda with maybe BotW2 coming out on both old and new hardware and perhaps maybe new Kirby and Bayo 3, plus who knows what else (maybe new DK?) while Xbox only has Halo Infinite (Which crosses over with PC) and Sony has Ratchet and Clank, GoW Ragnarok and Demon's Souls...but not much else yet. I'm not starting a console war here, I'm just pointing out how good it would be with this kind of timing. I really think Nintendo's going to keep riding this massive wave that the Switch started. Iwata's last deeds for the company may push it past places we never thought they would reach.

 

[BirthNote]

Hey everyone, I know we're a long ways out from another Smash but Donkey Kong still has some viable candidates who'd bring some interesting gameplay to the series, and Dixie Kong is no doubt one of the possibilities. So, here's a sample of potential ideas:

She could use her hair, generic attacks, bubblegum and Animal Buddies from DKCs. There's a wide breadth of potential, and more can be explored here:

Dixie Kong Moveset by Andrew C

docs.google.com

There's new ideas added sporadically, and the digital art is more at the bottom, so feel free to check it out if you want to jog your imagination and brainstorm, as you can make a fascinating moveset out of any character. All it takes is knowledge of the series and effort. No disrespect to Lucario, he was chosen at random for that demonstration lol.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I still see historical impact being raised around like a plus point despite it hardly being the deciding point for many of the playable characters chosen

Doesn't have to be a deciding point to be a plus point. Just has to be contributory.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I do wonder how Nintendo will respond to all of these other Smash-likes coming out all of a sudden. It could give them a kick in the butt and a wake up call that, hey, Smash is a lot of money we’re NOT making. Especially if Multiversus does this Free-to-play thing well and lasts for years and years to come? I could see Nintendo getting the ball rolling sooner rather than later.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I wonder how Nintendo will respond to all of these other Smash-likes coming out all of a sudden. It could give them a kick in the butt and a wake up call that, hey, Smash is a lot of money we’re NOT making. Especially if Multiversus does this Free-to-play thing well and lasts for years and years to come? I could see Nintendo getting the ball rolling sooner rather than later.

Maybe they will cancel Multiversus.

But I hope that Multiversus becomes so insanely popular like Among Us or FNF.
Since it's free, so anyone can install the game quickly.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Y’know, since the roster currently isn’t being decided on. Now might actually be the best time to shill our MW for Smash 6 so Sakurai or his replacement will hear the requests before making any decisions.

 

[osby]

Maybe they will cancel Multiversus.

I don't think companies can cancel the production of games they don't own.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I don't think companies can cancel the production of games they don't own.

Yeah youre right.
But still Multiversus will become Insanely Popular.

 

[osby]

Yeah youre right.
But still Multiversus will become Insanely Popular.

We don't know that yet. The free-to-play bit is definitely a good way to make more people check out the game but it's hard to gauge a game's popularity before it even comes out.

NASB was promising before launch but then the low production value and hyper-focus on competitiveness kinda killed it. If Multiversus fails to deliver on satisfying gameplay or post-launch content, I can see it not doing so well. I'm cautiosly optimistic, though.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

We don't know that yet. The free-to-play bit is definitely a good way to make more people check out the game but it's hard to gauge a game's popularity before it even comes out.

NASB was promising before launch but then the low production value and hyper-focus on competitiveness kinda killed it. If Multiversus fails to deliver on satisfying gameplay or post-launch content, I can see it not doing so well. I'm cautiosly optimistic, though.

Dude, Multiversus won't die that quickly. I bet there is modding option, where you could make Custom Stages or custom models for game, so it would keep it alive.
Also, it Rollback Netcode! And possibly wavedashing along with Waveshine like fox.

 

[osby]

Dude, Multiversus won't die that quickly. I bet there is modding option, where you could make Custom Stages or custom models for game, so it would keep it alive.
Also, it Rollback Netcode! And possibly wavedashing along with Waveshine like fox.

I'm not saying it's gonna die quickly, I'm only pointing out that we know way too little about the game to make a precise prediction about how successful it will be.

Also, rollback netcode and wavedashing didn't make NSAB set the world on fire, while Ultimate did that without neither.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I still see historical impact being raised around like a plus point despite it hardly being the deciding point for many of the playable characters chosen (poor smt, virtual fighter and the pre-7 final fantasy. At least DQ got in but not before ff7 in the end).

It's gonna be dragonborn because that game is actually recognizable in japan, clearly showed by its greater than 10k sales over there. If we even get one to begin with.

FF itself has a historical impact, so I don't see how that's even used as an example.

But a game having a historical impact is indeed a plus point for a series, which is why Sakurai mentions DOOM's impact on its genre in the first place. Therefore, it obviously does play a part in that series character getting in.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Historical impact is definitely a factor.

Heck, Terry's intro was basically Sakurai gushing about SNK's impact.

 

[ForsakenM]

We don't know that yet. The free-to-play bit is definitely a good way to make more people check out the game but it's hard to gauge a game's popularity before it even comes out.

NASB was promising before launch but then the low production value and hyper-focus on competitiveness kinda killed it. If Multiversus fails to deliver on satisfying gameplay or post-launch content, I can see it not doing so well. I'm cautiosly optimistic, though.

NASB isn't dead: it's getting another major patch that will introduce costumes that weren't able to be done before because they were rushed, in addition to merhaps the two characters we've been waiting for. It's still being played and still has competitive scene push.

Not to crush Tankman from Newgrounds 's dreams or anything, but everything about Multiversus reeks of predatory Freemium design. The fact that it's free-to-play is already a major hint that there will likely be disgusting monetization tactics being used, and we still haven't seen what all the symbols on that leaked character image means yet, but clearly there is a level system of some sort. My guess is that individual characters gain XP, which levels up their stats and perhaps allows them to have new attributes of moves they couldn't before, which is a massive problem for balancing. How would you feel about losing to an opponent because their Arya Stark is five levels higher than your Tom & Jerry and they just did more raw damage and knockback because of that? Welcome to something that was a major theme in the previous Nick game that was on mobile.

Another worry is that those symbols could be like that same Nick game where each character had an element and there were strengths and weaknesses like Pokemon, which means that you could just flat out take more damage because of an arbitrary element that doesn't reflect skill.

Those challenges pose a problem too, and unlike Poppt1 or anyone else who just sees a new Smash clone and gets hype, I can tell that this will lead to heavy grinding...likely to unlike new characters, or to level up the characters you already have. I bet there will be a shop for XP boosters or maybe to even buy more challenges, and probably a currency to buy new characters, probably two with one being premium. In other words, I expect Pokemon Unite tactics here. Hopefully none of the skins are $40...

It also really doesn't look that great, and the footage I hope was just at a weird frame rate due to recording issues, because if it plays like that in my hands I will hard pass on it for that alone. Multiple moments Superman looks like he's made of clay when in motion, and frankly all of these designs reek of that classic 'minimalist-yet-cartoony' style that a lot of mobile games go for.

Add all this in with how predatory they were with MK11 at launch and for a while after, and I'm very much not looking forward to this. No amount of meme Shaggy will keep me playing a garbage game. Here's to hoping I am wrong though!

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

NASB isn't dead: it's getting another major patch that will introduce costumes that weren't able to be done before because they were rushed, in addition to merhaps the two characters we've been waiting for. It's still being played and still has competitive scene push.

Not to crush Tankman from Newgrounds 's dreams or anything, but everything about Multiversus reeks of predatory Freemium design. The fact that it's free-to-play is already a major hint that there will likely be disgusting monetization tactics being used, and we still haven't seen what all the symbols on that leaked character image means yet, but clearly there is a level system of some sort. My guess is that individual characters gain XP, which levels up their stats and perhaps allows them to have new attributes of moves they couldn't before, which is a massive problem for balancing. How would you feel about losing to an opponent because their Arya Stark is five levels higher than your Tom & Jerry and they just did more raw damage and knockback because of that? Welcome to something that was a major theme in the previous Nick game that was on mobile.

Another worry is that those symbols could be like that same Nick game where each character had an element and there were strengths and weaknesses like Pokemon, which means that you could just flat out take more damage because of an arbitrary element that doesn't reflect skill.

Those challenges pose a problem too, and unlike Poppt1 or anyone else who just sees a new Smash clone and gets hype, I can tell that this will lead to heavy grinding...likely to unlike new characters, or to level up the characters you already have. I bet there will be a shop for XP boosters or maybe to even buy more challenges, and probably a currency to buy new characters, probably two with one being premium. In other words, I expect Pokemon Unite tactics here. Hopefully none of the skins are $40...

It also really doesn't look that great, and the footage I hope was just at a weird frame rate due to recording issues, because if it plays like that in my hands I will hard pass on it for that alone. Multiple moments Superman looks like he's made of clay when in motion, and frankly all of these designs reek of that classic 'minimalist-yet-cartoony' style that a lot of mobile games go for.

Add all this in with how predatory they were with MK11 at launch and for a while after, and I'm very much not looking forward to this. No amount of meme Shaggy will keep me playing a garbage game. Here's to hoping I am wrong though!

Yes you fricking wrong at the part with Monetization. In fact, they would make microtransactions, where it cost 3.99 Dollars. It wont be high price though since developers know how to make game perfect and flawless. They made this game before NASB was in development and they possibly planned that the microtransactions are really low. Lower than Pirahna Plant cost.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Y’know, since the roster currently isn’t being decided on. Now might actually be the best time to shill our MW for Smash 6 so Sakurai or his replacement will hear the requests before making any decisions.

Any character that people want for Smash needed to start gaining their push now especially in few months where Sakurai will inevitably go on to his new project. Unfortunately most from the burnout or just exhaustion will fall to habit to snooze til the next Smash which will a waste as the character have been chosen already being moot.

I actually have something in the works to help to keep the "For Smash" momentum alive a bit more. It will be a bit hard to do that if many supporters have hung up their flags.

And I can tell you that there are two characters they can reveal first that would lock in so many pre-orders it would make your head spin so fast you might lift into orbit: The Wah and The Marsupial. It would be super easy to market as well, and you could hold the reveal of new characters for a Smash Direct if you really wanted to, but do you know what would happen if Waluigi was playing Mario Party in a trailer and then suddenly he gets the March 2018 treatment?

I believe Waluigi is a lock for the next instalment due to things have went down since his Assist reveal and I have say the same for Crash but in the opposite spectrum. What is going in Activision is has severely hurt Crash's chances. Before you say Nintendo wouldn't care, funnily enough they hate controversy that actually hurt their brand. They cut ties blizzard and remove promotion for OW due that China incident and they even stayed away from the Olympics this year from the VG music ceremony due most of Japan's citizens being against it which makes sense especially when they are Japan's biggest company so they obviously want to stay on good terms. Unless things change at Activision, we won't be see Crash for quite a while.

 

[Trevenant]

Does Crash even have a future? I'm not fully aware of his situation but if those rumors of Crash being done were true then we probably won't be seeing him full stop.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Yeah, hate to say it's looking bleak for Crash rn. Feeling sorry for the fans

 

[Trevenant]

Yeah, hate to say it's looking bleak for Crash rn. Feeling sorry for the fans

Yeah I guess there's the slight chance that they were looking at character request numbers during Ultimate specifically, but I doubt it since the last times that were done had actual polls to help, whilst Crash certainly wouldn't have done too well on the ballot. It really does hinge on whether the series actually has a future, but if not then most of the actual reasons people could reasonably cite during Ultimate would have kinda petered out.

 

[ForsakenM]

Yeah I guess there's the slight chance that they were looking at character request numbers during Ultimate specifically, but I doubt it since the last times that were done had actual polls to help, whilst Crash certainly wouldn't have done too well on the ballot. It really does hinge on whether the series actually has a future, but if not then most of the actual reasons people could reasonably cite during Ultimate would have kinda petered out.

Yeah, guess Dante has no chance either, since his hype was all post-ballot.

Guess Hollow Knight has no chance either.

Guess Shantae has no chance either.

Guess Chief has no chance either.

Guess Monster Hunter has no chance either.

If you would like, I can add more, but I think the point has been made already. If you act like the only the Ballot matters, you are not only ignoring the majority of Ultimate's DLC choices, but also acting as if all the hubbub made over several characters over the past few years means nothing and isn't being taken into account...which, by the by, we know is wrong because of how Sakurai addressed the costumes that came with Kazuya as characters people really wanted as playable.

Meanwhile, Crash is doing just fine. Remember, while some people are Brain Drained, the majority can separate as character a massive amount of people love that was made by another studio and now owned by a different one from the company that owns them now being horrible pieces of ****. Additionally, Crash had a massive revival, and there were the rumors that someone saw Activision had plans to get Crash into Smash by 2021.

Now, maybe that failed, but if Crash didn't make Ultimate, don't you think they would try talking with Sakurai about the next title in the series? Also, by 2021 is a little bit late for Ultimate when all the DLC was chosen well before then, right? So, what if Activision was ALWAYS aiming for negotiating Crash into the next title, and that date they were aiming for the negotiations being done in was by the end of 2021?

In other words, you are out here suggesting that Crash in Smash is dead with no evidence or any actual justification for saying so, while the evidence suggests that he is likely showing up for the next title.

 

[Megadoomer]

Yeah I guess there's the slight chance that they were looking at character request numbers during Ultimate specifically, but I doubt it since the last times that were done had actual polls to help, whilst Crash certainly wouldn't have done too well on the ballot. It really does hinge on whether the series actually has a future, but if not then most of the actual reasons people could reasonably cite during Ultimate would have kinda petered out.

They acknowledged that characters like Dante, Shantae, and the Dragonborn were popular picks among the fanbase, and that definitely wasn't due to the Smash Ballot. Shantae might have been (not sure how heavily-supported indie characters were back then), but a lot of the excitement surrounding the other two started to increase when they actually got games on Nintendo consoles, which only happened during the Switch's lifespan.

(Devil May Cry 3's Switch version getting a news update on the same day as a Smash reveal, and Skyrim being one of the first Switch game announcements, might have also helped in those cases)

They were definitely paying attention to which characters were popular among the fandom during Smash Ultimate's life cycle, even if the DLC for Ultimate had already been decided on by that point.

 

[dream1ng]

Re: historical impact
I think the part of historical impact being downplayed is the impact part. That's more important the historical part. People tout Dragon Quest as the incipient RPG, Doom as the premier FPS, Street Fighter or Fatal Fury as the origin of fighting games.

None of these were the first in their genre. But, they were (potentially among others) the ones that left the impact.

If you have a character who is historically influential but didn't cause much of a stir themselves versus a character who really didn't alter the history around them but whose game made a big splash, I'd bank on the latter.

Re: Crash
Post-ballot popularity could be used. It wasn't really, for the roster. But it could've been. The thing is that Crash's popularity will decline if the series doesn't continue to get games, and by the next Smash, he may not have the requisite fervor to get acknowledged on that basis with playability.

The current situation with Activision will likely only be an impediment to Smash if Nintendo cuts ties with the company, because by the time the next Smash is being settled, the fallout of whatever is to transpire regarding the current problems will have already happened.

Re: Other platform fighters
I see them having no impact on Smash. None will get in spitting distance of Smash's success, and even if they did, Nintendo isn't the type to give a ****. Smash already operates on the level as if it were actually competing with comparable rivals, when it's never had any serious ones.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Yeah, guess Dante has no chance either, since his hype was all post-ballot.

Guess Hollow Knight has no chance either.

Guess Shantae has no chance either.

Guess Chief has no chance either.

Guess Monster Hunter has no chance either.

If you would like, I can add more, but I think the point has been made already. If you act like the only the Ballot matters, you are not only ignoring the majority of Ultimate's DLC choices, but also acting as if all the hubbub made over several characters over the past few years means nothing and isn't being taken into account...which, by the by, we know is wrong because of how Sakurai addressed the costumes that came with Kazuya as characters people really wanted as playable.

Meanwhile, Crash is doing just fine. Remember, while some people are Brain Drained, the majority can separate as character a massive amount of people love that was made by another studio and now owned by a different one from the company that owns them now being horrible pieces of ****. Additionally, Crash had a massive revival, and there were the rumors that someone saw Activision had plans to get Crash into Smash by 2021.

Now, maybe that failed, but if Crash didn't make Ultimate, don't you think they would try talking with Sakurai about the next title in the series? Also, by 2021 is a little bit late for Ultimate when all the DLC was chosen well before then, right? So, what if Activision was ALWAYS aiming for negotiating Crash into the next title, and that date they were aiming for the negotiations being done in was by the end of 2021?

In other words, you are out here suggesting that Crash in Smash is dead with no evidence or any actual justification for saying so, while the evidence suggests that he is likely showing up for the next title.

It isn't the fanbase to be certain about, It's Nintendo's too. Like I mention before, with all the stuff going, I doubt Nintendo would want to carry negotiations that can ruin their brand. If Activision change their scope and vision, maybe Crash chances will increase but its unlikely.

Plsu you can't separate the character from the company they are ones profiting from it the inclusion, their name is going to be on the list of copyrights etc which isn't a good look for Nintendo who likes to keep a family friendly image for the company. They have cut ties before and Activision is no different,

They acknowledged that characters like Dante, Shantae, and the Dragonborn were popular picks among the fanbase, and that definitely wasn't due to the Smash Ballot. Shantae might have been (not sure how heavily-supported indie characters were back then), but a lot of the excitement surrounding the other two started to increase when they actually got games on Nintendo consoles, which only happened during the Switch's lifespan.

(Devil May Cry 3's Switch version getting a news update on the same day as a Smash reveal, and Skyrim being one of the first Switch game announcements, might have also helped in those cases)

They were definitely paying attention to which characters were popular among the fandom during Smash Ultimate's life cycle, even if the DLC for Ultimate had already been decided on by that point.

Shantae support definitely exploded from the ballot season especially when WayForward were actively campaigning for it and i'm pretty sure Dante and Dragonborn would be popular picks regardless on Switch releases or not.

 

[dream1ng]

Shantae support definitely exploded from the ballot season especially when WayForward were actively campaigning for it and i'm pretty sure Dante and Dragonborn would be popular picks regardless on Switch releases or not.

Maybe, but both characters became more demanded once they did get a Switch release announced, and there aren't a ton of characters with notable popularity who lack any of their games on a Nintendo system. There are a few, but not many.

Honestly I don't think Dragonborn was actually that popular. I think they licensed him in tandem with Vault Boy and Doom Slayer and put him in that wave because Skyrim in general is popular. No Bethesda character other than Doom Slayer ever really had a huge amount of popularity.

 

[ForsakenM]

It isn't the fanbase to be certain about, It's Nintendo's too. Like I mention before, with all the stuff going, I doubt Nintendo would want to carry negotiations that can ruin their brand. If Activision change their scope and vision, maybe Crash chances will increase but its unlikely.

Plsu you can't separate the character from the company they are ones profiting from it the inclusion, their name is going to be on the list of copyrights etc which isn't a good look for Nintendo who likes to keep a family friendly image for the company. They have cut ties before and Activision is no different,

Actually, you 100% can.

What is more important? A platforming icon of gaming history that people love and want to get into Smash actually making it in the next title in the franchise?

Or preventing him from getting in because a company full of ****ty people owns him even though the character itself has nothing to do with that and wasn't even created by them?

Sometimes, you need to make sacrifices for the greater good.

Also, fun fact: if it's happening, the decision was likely already done and made by now. Long before all this **** hit the fan, and I doubt Sakurai wouldn't work with the good people left to make it happen, especially when the fans want it.

 

[Megadoomer]

Sometimes, you need to make sacrifices for the greater good.

(Also, to support your point, Konami was outed as a crappy company before Smash Ultimate, between the pachinko obsession, the paranoia-inducing workspace, and the general pettiness of upper management, and that didn't stop Snake and the Belmonts from being included, Bomberman being added as an assist trophy, or Goemon getting a Mii costume)

 

[Trevenant]

They acknowledged that characters like Dante, Shantae, and the Dragonborn were popular picks among the fanbase, and that definitely wasn't due to the Smash Ballot. Shantae might have been (not sure how heavily-supported indie characters were back then), but a lot of the excitement surrounding the other two started to increase when they actually got games on Nintendo consoles, which only happened during the Switch's lifespan.

(Devil May Cry 3's Switch version getting a news update on the same day as a Smash reveal, and Skyrim being one of the first Switch game announcements, might have also helped in those cases)

They were definitely paying attention to which characters were popular among the fandom during Smash Ultimate's life cycle, even if the DLC for Ultimate had already been decided on by that point.

Yeah I forgot about Kazuya's mii wave... Still the lack of relevance which Crash is likely gonna have in the future is probably gonna ultimately be his downfall TBH. Large fan demand does take priority over relevance, but it's been shown that you do have to be pretty popular to be considered for an actual character spot based mainly on fan demand. Unless stuff for the next game is being done like... now, which it like 99% isn't the case, which leaves enough time for them to find out whether the Crash IP will still be a thing or not. There's obviously still a chance that he will still exist but I can't say it's looking too good unfortunately

 

[Perkilator]

Yeah, hate to say it's looking bleak for Crash rn. Feeling sorry for the fans

I've said this before, but I wish Traveller's Tales was free from the LEGO mines and owned Crash and Spyro just so they could be under better circumstances.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

NASB isn't dead: it's getting another major patch that will introduce costumes that weren't able to be done before because they were rushed, in addition to merhaps the two characters we've been waiting for. It's still being played and still has competitive scene push.

Not to crush Tankman from Newgrounds 's dreams or anything, but everything about Multiversus reeks of predatory Freemium design. The fact that it's free-to-play is already a major hint that there will likely be disgusting monetization tactics being used, and we still haven't seen what all the symbols on that leaked character image means yet, but clearly there is a level system of some sort. My guess is that individual characters gain XP, which levels up their stats and perhaps allows them to have new attributes of moves they couldn't before, which is a massive problem for balancing. How would you feel about losing to an opponent because their Arya Stark is five levels higher than your Tom & Jerry and they just did more raw damage and knockback because of that? Welcome to something that was a major theme in the previous Nick game that was on mobile.

Another worry is that those symbols could be like that same Nick game where each character had an element and there were strengths and weaknesses like Pokemon, which means that you could just flat out take more damage because of an arbitrary element that doesn't reflect skill.

Those challenges pose a problem too, and unlike Poppt1 or anyone else who just sees a new Smash clone and gets hype, I can tell that this will lead to heavy grinding...likely to unlike new characters, or to level up the characters you already have. I bet there will be a shop for XP boosters or maybe to even buy more challenges, and probably a currency to buy new characters, probably two with one being premium. In other words, I expect Pokemon Unite tactics here. Hopefully none of the skins are $40...

It also really doesn't look that great, and the footage I hope was just at a weird frame rate due to recording issues, because if it plays like that in my hands I will hard pass on it for that alone. Multiple moments Superman looks like he's made of clay when in motion, and frankly all of these designs reek of that classic 'minimalist-yet-cartoony' style that a lot of mobile games go for.

Add all this in with how predatory they were with MK11 at launch and for a while after, and I'm very much not looking forward to this. No amount of meme Shaggy will keep me playing a garbage game. Here's to hoping I am wrong though!

We don’t have any way to gauge just how much micro transactions are going to litter Multiversus, and even if it is littered with them it doesn’t mean it’s going to kill the game. You can glance over at Brawlhalla and see what kind of approach they’ll take with Multiversus and, believe it or not, Brawlhalla is HUGE. Like it’s made an absurd amount of money off of its aesthetic based micro transactions and nobody is really complaining about it because all the characters are free. If the game is fun and it’s free then people are going to spend money on it. Especially with a game that features Batman, Shaggy, and Gandalf fighting each other.

And I’m personally a huge fan of the art style. I think it’s minimalist approach allows for much brighter colors and flashier costumes. Batman’s cape animates better in Multiversus than it maybe ever has and it’s beautiful.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What is more important? A platforming icon of gaming history that people love and want to get into Smash actually making it in the next title in the franchise?

Or preventing him from getting in because a company full of ****ty people owns him even though the character itself has nothing i to do with that and wasn't even created by them?

Sometimes, you need to make sacrifices for the greater good.

Yeah, but your concept of which good is greater is pretty ****ed up.

You think getting some cartoon rat into a fancy toy is more important than not funneling money to an organization that ruined a lot of peoples' lives...

 

[Will]

Add all this in with how predatory they were with MK11 at launch and for a while after, and I'm very much not looking forward to this. No amount of meme Shaggy will keep me playing a garbage game. Here's to hoping I am wrong though!

Were you a doomer before Sora was announced?

If so, you might be wrong and it's just doomer syndrome.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Actually, you 100% can.

What is more important? A platforming icon of gaming history that people love and want to get into Smash actually making it in the next title in the franchise?

Or preventing him from getting in because a company full of ****ty people owns him even though the character itself has nothing to do with that and wasn't even created by them?

Sometimes, you need to make sacrifices for the greater good.

Also, fun fact: if it's happening, the decision was likely already done and made by now. Long before all this **** hit the fan, and I doubt Sakurai wouldn't work with the good people left to make it happen, especially when the fans want it.

The latter. Don't know why you made seem like it was dilmena when its obviously a no-brainer. Wouldn't call the character getting over prevention of affiliation of sexual abuse and suicide from a demented company the "greater good".

Yeah, but your concept of which good is greater is pretty ****ed up.

You think getting some cartoon rat into a fancy toy is more important than not funneling money to an organization that ruined a lot of peoples' lives...

I understand. When you are big fan of one of your favourite series held by the strings of such a corporation, it's pretty hard to let go. Yeah, Activision deserved the full consequences of their actions but still, you wish characters like Sypro and Crash weren't tangled in such a mess especially when they had a good run with remakes and even new entry with Crash 4.

And I’m personally a huge fan of the art style. I think it’s minimalist approach allows for much brighter colors and flashier costumes. Batman’s cape animates better in Multiversus than it maybe ever has and it’s beautiful.

Multiversus actually looks really good especially for the cartoony aesthetic and not the cheap kind either

 

[Garteam]

Anyone who genuinely believes that the allegations of abuse at Activision will affect Crash's chances at getting in Smash in any way needs to look up Koichi Sugiyama.

It seems pretty clear that Sakurai really doesn't care about the politics surrounding a character's inclusion. He publicly berated CERO twice for censoring Palutena in Smash 4 and getting Mai removed from the King of Fighters' Stadium. That's pretty significant when you consider the role of face and politeness in Japanese culture.

If Sakurai thinks Crash is a good fit for Smash, he'll add him into the game, even if he is owned by a company that has had massive internal problems completely separate from the development of Crash and his games.

 

[Gengar84]

The latter. Don't know why you made seem like it was dilmena when its obviously a no-brainer. Wouldn't call the character getting over prevention of affiliation of sexual abuse and suicide from a demented company the "greater good".



I understand. When you are big fan of one of your favourite series held by the strings of such a corporation, it's pretty hard to let go. Yeah, Activision deserved the full consequences of their actions but still, you wish characters like Sypro and Crash weren't tangled in such a mess especially when they had a good run with remakes and even new entry with Crash 4.



Multiversus actually looks really good especially for the cartoony aesthetic and not the cheap kind either

I’m in the same boat but more on the Blizzard side of things. WarCraft and StarCraft have some of my favorite characters in gaming but it just feels wrong to fully support them based on the actions of Activision. I really wish they would do the right thing and get rid of all their problematic employees and try to rebuild their reputation. It does really suck knowing what the company has become. Part of me still really wants a character like Illidan, Kerrigan, or Diablo in Smash but I totally understand people that don’t want any part of it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I do wonder how Nintendo will respond to all of these other Smash-likes coming out all of a sudden. It could give them a kick in the butt and a wake up call that, hey, Smash is a lot of money we’re NOT making. Especially if Multiversus does this Free-to-play thing well and lasts for years and years to come? I could see Nintendo getting the ball rolling sooner rather than later.

Spite is one hell of a motivator, they say

Anyone who genuinely believes that the allegations of abuse at Activision will affect Crash's chances at getting in Smash in any way needs to look up Koichi Sugiyama.

It seems pretty clear that Sakurai really doesn't care about the politics surrounding a character's inclusion. He publicly berated CERO twice for censoring Palutena in Smash 4 and getting Mai removed from the King of Fighters' Stadium. That's pretty significant when you consider the role of face and politeness in Japanese culture.

If Sakurai thinks Crash is a good fit for Smash, he'll add him into the game, even if he is owned by a company that has had massive internal problems completely separate from the development of Crash and his games.

I mean, true. Same applies for Riot since they’ve been involved in similar misdeeds

what I do worry about is how the general public will handle it. Sugiyama was a terrible person but what he did doesn’t hold a candle to the crap going on at ActiBlizz, especially if it’s still going if/when Crash joins Smash in the future… maybe it’s just my opinion tho

 

[Sucumbio]

I think it's imperative the issues are resolved before Nintendo courts Activision. If they can demonstrate the toxic culture there is a thing of the past then I can get behind the two companies partnering for Smash. Without that it seems like a giant PR nightmare.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Anyone who genuinely believes that the allegations of abuse at Activision will affect Crash's chances at getting in Smash in any way needs to look up Koichi Sugiyama.

It seems pretty clear that Sakurai really doesn't care about the politics surrounding a character's inclusion. He publicly berated CERO twice for censoring Palutena in Smash 4 and getting Mai removed from the King of Fighters' Stadium. That's pretty significant when you consider the role of face and politeness in Japanese culture.

If Sakurai thinks Crash is a good fit for Smash, he'll add him into the game, even if he is owned by a company that has had massive internal problems completely separate from the development of Crash and his games.

To be fair, Sugiyama's beliefs are less controversial in Japan than the West, which is why he was still able to hold his job as DQ's composer.

ActiBlizz's actions, on the other hand...

 

[Gengar84]

I think it's imperative the issues are resolved before Nintendo courts Activision. If they can demonstrate the toxic culture there is a thing of the past then I can get behind the two companies partnering for Smash. Without that it seems like a giant PR nightmare.

Yeah, I can get behind that. It seems like their problems are so bad that I have doubts they’ll ever be able to correct them but if they show that they are actually taking the allegations seriously and working to improve, I’ll go back to advocating for a Blizzard character. Until then, I’m fine with Nintendo and Smash fans not wanting to associate with the company.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah, I can get behind that. It seems like their problems are so bad that I have doubts they’ll ever be able to correct them but if they show that they are actually taking the allegations seriously and working to improve, I’ll go back to advocating for a Blizzard character. Until then, I’m fine with Nintendo and Smash fans not wanting to associate with the company.

Honestly I've had issues with ActiBlizz years before the sexual harassment issues. The only reason I even have a legal copy of Modern Warfare 2019 was because it came free with my graphics card.

 

[Gengar84]

Honestly I've had issues with ActiBlizz years before the sexual harassment issues. The only reason I even have a legal copy of Modern Warfare 2019 was because it came free with my graphics card.

I honestly never cared about the Activision half of Activision/Blizzard. I did buy WarCraft 3, StarCraft, StarCraft 2, and Diablo 3 and played a bit of Hearthstone. Other than that, I’m not sure I ever bought a game from the company. I do still love Blizzard’s characters but it is getting harder to separate the IP from the developer with the recent allegations.