Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

Besides Mario, FE and Pokemon which franchises are most likely to get a new character?

That is a tricky one. Though gengars right splatoon and xenoblade are hot stuff so i can see them getting stuff. Although the roster will look slightly odd if we end up with shulk and Noah with pyra/mythra in the middle. Part of me wants to believe sonic has a good shot but I doubt it

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Besides Mario, FE and Pokemon which franchises are most likely to get a new character?

Half expecting another Street fighter character, they gets tons of reps when they get added to a game because of how easy the SF license is to get.

 

[Gengar84]

Half expecting another Street fighter character, they gets tons of reps when they get added to a game because of how easy the SF license is to get.

It would most likely be Chun Li but I’d really want to see either Guile or Vega (claw) in Smash at some point. They are my two favorite SF characters and Guile has a few things going for him, namely the leading role in the first movie and an Assist Trophy in Ultimate.

Kirby is another likely first party that I forgot to mention. Bandana Dee is highly requested and The Forgotten Land was very successful.

 

[Perkilator]

Half expecting another Street fighter character, they gets tons of reps when they get added to a game because of how easy the SF license is to get.

Man, if only every license was this easy to get…we’d at least see more 3rd party universe represented through non-playable means like Spirits and Assist Trophies.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It would most likely be Chun Li but I’d really want to see either Guile or Vega (claw) in Smash at some point. They are my two favorite SF characters and Guile has a few things going for him, namely the leading role in the first movie and an Assist Trophy in Ultimate.

Kirby is another likely first party that I forgot to mention. Bandana Dee is highly requested and The Forgotten Land was very successful.

If they want to cheap out they could always just do what Fire emblem did with having four Marths and end up dumping the other Ryu's in the game lol

 

[Gengar84]

If they want to cheap out they could always just do what Fire emblem did with having four Marths and end up dumping the other Ryu's in the game lol

I feel like they could do that with the Mortal Kombat ninjas. In the early games, they all had the same normal moves and only their specials varied. I could see Smash using that idea and make at least both Scorpion and Sub-Zero as semi echoes with different specials. They could do the same for the other ninjas like Reptile, Smoke, Ermac, Raine, and Noob if they were feeling extra ambitious.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

As a side note, i wish Evil Ryu and Violent ken were alt skins.

 

[Gengar84]

As a side note, i wish Evil Ryu and Violent ken were alt skins.

Yeah they would have made for great skins. They could have had their own voices as well.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Besides Mario, FE and Pokemon which franchises are most likely to get a new character?

Xenoblade, Zelda, Donkey Kong

 

[HyperSomari64]

The Successes and Failures of Fighting Game New Generations

Script - https://www.deviantart.com/the4thsnake/art/A-History-of-Fighting-Game-New-Generations-960570101Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/the4thsnakeTwitter ...

www.youtube.com

How can a new generation could work for Smash?

• Keeping the original eight starting characters from 64 and four from the following Smash games (or even a very-small selected number of returning characters like from 2-to-6 slots), and the rest is all-new?
• Cutting every single character from the previous games but keeping the crossover aspect?
• The stupidest one: making new, original characters and world but keeping the movesets of older characters and no longer being a crossover?

Yeah the last one seems like worst.

 

[fogbadge]

Xenoblade, Zelda, Donkey Kong

I hope you’re right

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Lol I have no idea what kind of conversation we’re having here. It’s definitely a weird one.

Here’s a fun game, if you could add one character that specializes in each major element (for example, ice, fire, lightning, dark, light, wind, and water), who would you choose for each element (or just the ones you feel like naming). Here’s some of my favorites:

Ice: Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)
Fire: Illidan Stormrage (WarCraft)
Lightning: Xemnas (Kingdom Hearts)
Dark: Magus (Chrono Trigger)
Light: Shionne (Tales of Arise)
Wind: Air Man (Mega Man)
Water: Mako (Brawlhala)

I’ll leave Pokémon off the list for now since they would be a bit too easy.

Ice: Sub-Zero
Fire: The Diablo (or Scorpion from Mortal kombat)
Lightning: Cole MacGrath from Infamous (or Raiden from Mortal kombat)
Dark: Riku from Kingdom hearts (or Noob saibot from Mortal kombat)
Light: Aerith from FF7 (or Ashrah from Mortal kombat)
Wind: Fujin from Mortal kombat
Water: Sidon from Zelda (or again, Rain from Mortal kombat)

Yes, I'll push for a Mortal kombat characters

It would most likely be Chun Li but I’d really want to see either Guile or Vega (claw) in Smash at some point. They are my two favorite SF characters and Guile has a few things going for him, namely the leading role in the first movie and an Assist Trophy in Ultimate.

I just hope they don't go with Luke now that he's the main character.

 

[Gengar84]

The Successes and Failures of Fighting Game New Generations

Script - https://www.deviantart.com/the4thsnake/art/A-History-of-Fighting-Game-New-Generations-960570101Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/the4thsnakeTwitter ...

www.youtube.com

How can a new generation could work for Smash?

• Keeping the original eight starting characters from 64 and four from the following Smash games (or even a very-small selected number of returning characters like from 2-to-6 slots), and the rest is all-new?
• Cutting every single character from the previous games but keeping the crossover aspect?
• The stupidest one: making new, original characters and world but keeping the movesets of older characters and no longer being a crossover?

Yeah the last one seems like worst.

I don’t like any of those ideas and they get progressively worse.

What I would be open to is a Smash side series along with the normal games kind of like how the Warriors games do it while still keeping the original Dynasty Warriors around. I’d love to see the Smash team handle other properties like a Microsoft Smash, a TMNT Smash, a My Hero Academia Smash, and a ton of other things. I wouldn’t want to lose current Smash but it could be a fun side idea.

 

[Sucumbio]

I personally hope Metroid gets another rep.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

The Successes and Failures of Fighting Game New Generations

Script - https://www.deviantart.com/the4thsnake/art/A-History-of-Fighting-Game-New-Generations-960570101Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/the4thsnakeTwitter ...

www.youtube.com

How can a new generation could work for Smash?

• Keeping the original eight starting characters from 64 and four from the following Smash games (or even a very-small selected number of returning characters like from 2-to-6 slots), and the rest is all-new?
• Cutting every single character from the previous games but keeping the crossover aspect?
• The stupidest one: making new, original characters and world but keeping the movesets of older characters and no longer being a crossover?

Yeah the last one seems like worst.

Make it VR

 

[DarthEnderX]

What graphical style would you guys like to see in the next Smash? I think Ultimate’s style looks great but I think it could be a lot of fun to see Smash in a cel shaded style similar to Guilty Gear and Dragon Ball Fighter Z.

That's all I wanted for SF6, but I didn't get it.

Hoping that maybe we get a Darkstalkers or the next Capcom Vs. game in that art style...

How can a new generation could work for Smash?

It can't.

 

[Gengar84]

That's all I wanted for SF6, but I didn't get it.

Hoping that maybe we get a Darkstalkers game in that art style...

Street Fighter 6 has a weird looking visual style. I can’t say I’m too big a fan of what they went with. I’d love to see a modern Street Fighter game in the Guilty Gear art style.

There were rumors of a Japanese studio working on a new Killer Instinct game a while back. I think the most likely choice would be Bandai-Namco but I’d love to see what ArcSystem Works could do with the property. Those characters could look really cool in that style.

A -𝘕𝘌𝘞- Killer Instinct being made in...Japan!?

#KillerInstinct #Rumor #BandaiNamcoFull article here https://www.windowscentral.com/whats-deal-killer-instinctCheck out our Livestream! http://twitch.tv/maxi...

m.youtube.com

If we can get a big new Killer Instinct game in the near future, that could really help the chances of it getting a rep in Smash, especially if it performs well.

 

[Soy_Man]

I’d love to see a modern Street Fighter game in the Guilty Gear art style.

Street Fighter Alpha 4?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Street Fighter Alpha 4?

bottomtext

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm sad to say my experience with SF is limited to 2 and ex plus alpha.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

It's time for my weekly shilling of the SCCC3 poll.

Also, if you did not get a chance to see the results of SCCC2, take a look.

 

[KingofFools]

I'm sad to say my experience with SF is limited to 2 and ex plus alpha.

Please try anything else. I promise, it starts feeling a lot better after 2.

Street Fighter Alpha 4?

Even better, a remake of the original Street Fighter. Man, that game sucks.

 

[fogbadge]

Even better, a remake of the original Street Fighter. Man, that game sucks.

try not to double post

 

[dream1ng]

In the Wii-U-to-Switch transition porting has been easier because going to the hybrid model prevented a more normal leap in performance firepower. Ports and deluxe editions will still happen of course, but might not be quite as economical this time around.

I think you're underestimating how common/not a big deal upscaling to a future/new console is. Look how many titles get cross-released on Playstation and Xbox during the transition years between those consoles. Yes there's a monetary cost to any shift, but it often doesn't prove prohibitive.

Also keep in mind that this new console isn't going to be, like, anywhere near PS5 or XSX levels. Of course it will be more powerful than the Switch, but it's still Nintendo, it's not gonna be a profound jump in power, and it's still going to be at least a gen behind the curve. Especially since it will likely use DLSS to buttress its graphics rather than raw power. It's not like porting to this next thing will be a multi-gen jump from the last.

But also, the Switch still received ports/remasters from systems other than the Wii U. Look at all the recent/rumored ports/remasters now that the Wii U well is running dry. They're still coming, from older and weaker hardware, with bigger leaps and structural alterations from previous gimmicks. And remember every Wii U to Switch port entailed removing/retooling the now absent gamepad and any functionality uniquely tied to it, which they won't have to do this time.

Ports/deluxe editions are, potentially, very economical given their returns, which is why every company does them. If Nintendo does fewer, it will be largely because people actually played the Switch, so there's less novelty in its library than the Wii U's. It's not because suddenly they got too expensive.

As for the control scheme, I also expect the new one to be similar to the Switch's, but of course Nintendo has a penchant for innovation in that department, so I wouldn't rule out something more different than expected.

No, but I'm not going to work under that assumption either.

Having said that, it increases the workload, but it still doesn't stop moving games from system to system.

Also delays and reworks related to potential quality issues are a completely different cost/payoff dynamic. It's not that comparable to delaying/reworking a game simply for the purposes of making it fit better with the strategic planning.

You're right, the former is more expensive.

But both are still not that uncommon.

Right, so yeah the timeline for the next Camelot game ought to be roughly in line with the gap between Tennis and Golf (assuming no other extenuating circumstances), and bringing up the DLC for Aces was a moot point (sorry for not thinking that one through).

That's possible, it's probably a decent benchmark, but it's also worth keeping in mind that developing GS could take longer because it's an RPG, Camelot is pretty rusty with those, and EPD usually assists with Mario assets, which cuts down dev time.

So if it's Tennis or Golf, the timeline will probably stay similar. If it's GS, it could take a little longer. Though this could be offset if Camelot is getting development support from a studio more used to RPG development.

That's my thinking as well. Could be in play for like a September Direct.

The elephant in the room is how the looming successor changes the schedule around events such as Directs.

You'd think Nintendo would want a Direct that focuses on what is still to come for the Switch so they can get that stuff out of the way and not have it be overshadowed once they start showing the successor and its games. But that depends when the system comes, and when the reveal is.

The release could be as soon as this holiday, and probably won't be any later than next holiday. So the reveal will probably be between this summer and next summer. That's a pretty big range. If it's not til sometime next year, Directs could play out as normal for a while.

But if the reveal is sooner, will Nintendo pre-empt it with a sort of "Switch firesale" Direct? Or will they still sit on some software reveals to the point engagement and performance will be hurt by the knowledge of what's to come?

I just hope they don't go with Luke now that he's the main character.

Dw. It's Sakurai, they won't. When he rolls up to Square for Cloud and Sephiroth, he ain't leaving with Lightning and Noctis instead.

SF is gonna be Chun Li or no one. And it's not even gonna be the SF6 design (not that it's bad, it's just not the most famous one).

 

[Hadokeyblade]

SF is gonna be Chun Li or no one. And it's not even gonna be the SF6 design (not that it's bad, it's just not the most famous one).

The good ending would be to add her 6 design and her alpha design as Alt skins.

 

[CannonStreak]

The good ending would be to add her 6 design and her alpha design as Alt skins.

Good ending, huh? I wonder how that is achieved? By trying to contact Sakurai several times in Speculation Story mode? (like how you unlock things in a video game by progressing or using a cheat code)

 

[SPEN18]

I think you're underestimating how common/not a big deal upscaling to a future/new console is. Look how many titles get cross-released on Playstation and Xbox during the transition years between those consoles.

Perhaps. Though Nintendo doesn't usually cross-release that much first party stuff, even if your point was just to say that they could if they wanted. Some big things like Zelda have gotten the treatment, but little else. And again stuff gets moved to new hardware mid-development but it's more the exception than the norm. Sure, it's easily sensible to think one or two things might end up moved, but it's not going to be en masse; for the most part people try to stick to the plan and make adjustments when things go awry. As I've said, lot of the examples of games getting switched over have to do with there being something wrong with the quality (in which case so much would have to be redone that they may as well reboot on newer hardware), less so strategic planning, and even in the cases where it is strategic planning, it's often when the game is very early in its dev cycle (thus being upscale-able at a lesser cost). And the latter case doesn't really apply to things that are finished or almost finished in 2023/2024 for the Switch that they would then decide to move.

Also keep in mind that this new console isn't going to be, like, anywhere near PS5 or XSX levels. Of course it will be more powerful than the Switch, but it's still Nintendo, it's not gonna be a profound jump in power, and it's still going to be at least a gen behind the curve. Especially since it will likely use DLSS to buttress its graphics rather than raw power. It's not like porting to this next thing will be a multi-gen jump from the last.

True, but the upgrade will probably be at least noticeably bigger than the Wii-U-to-Switch jump.

But also, the Switch still received ports/remasters from systems other than the Wii U. Look at all the recent/rumored ports/remasters now that the Wii U well is running dry. They're still coming, from older and weaker hardware, with bigger leaps and structural alterations from previous gimmicks. And remember every Wii U to Switch port entailed removing/retooling the now absent gamepad and any functionality uniquely tied to it, which they won't have to do this time.

Ports/deluxe editions are, potentially, very economical given their returns, which is why every company does them. If Nintendo does fewer, it will be largely because people actually played the Switch, so there's less novelty in its library than the Wii U's. It's not because suddenly they got too expensive.

I'm not saying ports and DX editions won't happen or even that they won't still be relatively frequent. They will remain worth it to make in general, but not quite as easy and therefore at least a little bit less frequent, I would think. And yeah the size of the Switch install base is only going to further hamper the frequency.
If your point is just to illustrate how easy it is to upscale, then of course it is way, way easier than making something new but not negligible in cost and difficulty. I guess part of my point is not that they couldn't upscale more stuff if they wanted, but that they probably won't invest very much into upscaling items that are going to be more filler than headliner no matter which piece of hardware they happen to grace. So other than the "big hitters" like whatever the MK8/Odyssey teams are doing and possibly MP4, you're probably not looking at very much.

But if the reveal is sooner, will Nintendo pre-empt it with a sort of "Switch firesale" Direct? Or will they still sit on some software reveals to the point engagement and performance will be hurt by the knowledge of what's to come?

I would imagine there will be some kind of direct either this summer or fall. No matter when the next thing is coming, they can't just stop support for the Switch as soon as the second half of this year, so necessarily there will be some first party Switch reveals for this year and probably also early next. Anything currently planned for the Switch would be fair game there, I would think.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm also expecting some kind of non-new gen Pokemon main series game next year as one of the last main Nintendo games on the Switch. Specifically I'm expecting to see a Gold and Silver remake.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Good ending, huh? I wonder how that is achieved? By trying to contact Sakurai several times in Speculation Story mode? (like how you unlock things in a video game by progressing or using a cheat code)

The user means "good ending" as in "best case scenario" for the situation revolving around the alts.

But yeah, as long as we have at least 8 alts, more shouldn't matter. Though 16 could be a good cutoff point. XD

 

[CannonStreak]

The user means "good ending" as in "best case scenario" for the situation revolving around the alts.

But yeah, as long as we have at least 8 alts, more shouldn't matter. Though 16 could be a good cutoff point. XD

Yeah, I know…

I was just making a joke there, if it does not hurt.

 

[ARandomFruit]

Lol I have no idea what kind of conversation we’re having here. It’s definitely a weird one.

Here’s a fun game, if you could add one character that specializes in each major element (for example, ice, fire, lightning, dark, light, wind, and water), who would you choose for each element (or just the ones you feel like naming). Here’s some of my favorites:

Ice: Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)
Fire: Illidan Stormrage (WarCraft)
Lightning: Xemnas (Kingdom Hearts)
Dark: Magus (Chrono Trigger)
Light: Shionne (Tales of Arise)
Wind: Air Man (Mega Man)
Water: Mako (Brawlhala)

I’ll leave Pokémon off the list for now since they would be a bit too easy.

I did two characters just cause I felt like it.

Ice: Fjorm (FEH), Lich King (WoW)
Fire: Terra (FF6), Agumon (Digimon)
Lightning: Yu (Persona 4), Ky (Guilty Gear)
Dark: Cecil (FF4), Ansem (KH)
Light: Cress (Tales of Phantasia), Micaiah (FE10)
Wind: Air Man (MM), Merric (FE1)
Water: Orcane (Rivals of Aether), Chaos 0 (Sonic)
Earth: Isaac (Golden Sun), Garchomp (Pokemon)

 

[Wonder Smash]

Besides Mario, FE and Pokemon which franchises are most likely to get a new character?

Street Fighter, I guess?

And maybe Kirby is a possibility.

 

[MasterCheef]

Earth: Master Chief
Dark: Ahri & Jinx
Light: Elysium, via Soul Calibur
Electricity ; Miraidon
Fire: Koraidon

Besides Mario, FE and Pokemon which franchises are most likely to get a new character?

Xenoblade obviously . Nintendo already announced amiibo of Noah and Mio

Halo
League of Legends
SoulCalibur

Tomb Raider ??

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Besides Mario, FE and Pokemon which franchises are most likely to get a new character?

I don't think FE is that likely tbh (at least, not top 3 most likely). I think it will highly depends on the timing of the next smash development. If it starts development and Engage is 3 years old and the latest FE is a remake, I don't see a FE characters as very likely.

For fun, I'm going to make a tier list of how likely I think every franchise could get new characters. Of course, things could change based on new games in the future, but for now this is how I feel (S tier is pretty much locked, D tier is pretty much impossible)
S tier: Pokémon, Splatoon
A tier: Mario, Donkey kong, Kirby, Animal crossing, Xenoblade chronicles
B tier: Zelda, Fire emblem, Sonic, Street fighter, Bayonetta, Tekken
C tier: Yoshi, Metroid, Wario, Arms, Final fantasy, Castlevania, Persona, Fatal fury
D tier: Star fox, F-zero, Earthbound, Ice climber, Game & watch, Kid icarus, Pikmin, R.O.B., Wii fit, Punch-Out, Duck hunt, Metal gear, Mega man, Pac-Man, Dragon quest, Banjo-Kazooie, Minecraft, Kingdom hearts

 

[HyperSomari64]

• Broke: Oogtar for Smash
• Woke: Salvador Drainotto for Smash

 

[Schnee117]

Lol I have no idea what kind of conversation we’re having here. It’s definitely a weird one.

Here’s a fun game, if you could add one character that specializes in each major element (for example, ice, fire, lightning, dark, light, wind, and water), who would you choose for each element (or just the ones you feel like naming). Here’s some of my favorites:

Ice: Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)
Fire: Illidan Stormrage (WarCraft)
Lightning: Xemnas (Kingdom Hearts)
Dark: Magus (Chrono Trigger)
Light: Shionne (Tales of Arise)
Wind: Air Man (Mega Man)
Water: Mako (Brawlhala)

I’ll leave Pokémon off the list for now since they would be a bit too easy.

Ice: Mitsuru Kirijo (Persona)
Fire: Edelgard (Fire Emblem)
Lightning: Raiden (Metal Gear)
Dark: Nightmare (Soul Calibur)
Light: Saber Artoria (Fate)
Wind: Rashid (Street Fighter)
Water: Rain (Mortal Kombat)
Earth: Aganos (Killer Instinct)

 

[Idon]

I don't think FE is that likely tbh (at least, not top 3 most likely). I think it will highly depends on the timing of the next smash development. If it starts development and Engage is 3 years old and the latest FE is a remake, I don't see a FE characters as very likely.

With the advent of DLC allowing for post-smashlaunch FE characters to be included like Byleth, I think whoever is next after the remake has extremely good odds regardless.

 

[Aligo]

I personally hope Metroid gets another rep.

More metroid means more villains so yes.

 

[Gengar84]

More metroid means more villains so yes.

Yeah, Metroid has some really cool characters and I’m a fan of villains in Smash in general. I think that villains tend to have more interesting designs than the main protagonist of many games and often have really cool movesets. Plus, it’s always fun for the heroes to have someone to fight.

I’d be happy with either Raven Beak or EMMI as the next playable Metroid rep. A metroid itself would be cool but I’m not sure whether they have enough to work with for a full moveset. I do really like the thought of more basic mooks like Pirahna Plant as playable characters in Smash though.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, DLC being a thing really helps the odds of a new Fire Emblem character next time, and is also why I personally think Engage absolutely missed the boat.

New Fire Emblem games have come out, on average, every two years since the series began, with very few exceptions: three years between Genealogy and Thracia (likely due to the absolutely weird circumstances surrounding Thracia's release), only one year each between Blazing Blade, Sacred Stones, and Path of Radiance (because Sacred Stones wasn't even originally in the plans; they just made it quickly as a stopgap), three years between Awakening and Fates (likely due to Fates being three separate games), and then three and a half years between Three Houses and Engage (because of the pandemic; internal files confirm it was meant to release in 2021, fitting the two year pattern).

The all but officially confirmed remake of Genealogy of the Holy War is nigh guaranteed for either later this year or early next year. And as someone that doesn't expect the next Smash until 2027 (2026 at the absolute earliest), that's absolutely enough time for the next game to come out, even before Smash's DLC cycle.