Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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I'm rooting for Advance wars to make a comeback because that gives us a slight chance of Battallion wars coming back as well and i like those games.
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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread
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Gengar84
Smash Hero
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I know next to nothing about Advance Wars but I’d be open to a character in Smash. I’m curious how Sakurai would go about implementing their moveset, I feel like any of them could be interesting characters based on what little I do know. From just the few characters I know, I like the design of Sami the most. I think I remember a Project Melee mod adding her back in Brawl but I could be misremembering.
HyperSomari64
Smash Master
I asked about the non-video game characters you want in your profile, and i don't think Orihime is that historically popular for the Bleach manga.
When there are better characters (even female ones) to represent that aren't necessarily Ichigo.
When there are better characters (even female ones) to represent that aren't necessarily Ichigo.
Gengar84
Smash Hero
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My personal favorite Bleach characters are Renji, Yoruichi, and Grimmjow but Ichigo, Byakuya, and Rukia are great too. Ichigo is probably the coolest main protagonist of any shonen anime. I’d love to see a Smash style game that has all kinds of anime and manga characters beyond just those owned by Shonen Jump. Characters like Edward Elric, Natsu Dragneil, Inuyasha, Spike Spiegel, Lelouche vi Brittania, Ryuko Matoi, Yoko Litner and Vash the Stampede would be really fun additions to a game like that.
I’ve brought up the idea of Smash potentially doing crossover games akin to Capcom’s Vs series and I think something like Nintendo Vs Shonen Jump could be a lot of fun, even if we don’t get guests like I mentioned above.
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RileyXY1
Smash Hero
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Not exactly. For Tekken Sakurai skipped Heihachi Mishima (who is usually the Tekken rep in crossover appearances, notably appearing in both Soul Calibur 2 and Playstation All Stars: Battle Royale) and went for Kazuya instead due to the latter having much more unique moveset potential due to him having the Devil Gene which Heihachi lacks.
Gengar84
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I’m glad for that. I’ve always thought Kazuya and Jin were both cooler characters than Heihachi. Heihachi always just reminded me of a realistic Dr. Wily.
The classic Mega Man crew should’ve appeared in Project X Zone just for this interaction alone.
Wonder Smash
Smash Lord
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Kazuya is a historically popular character in the Tekken series too. His popularity is what brought him back after he was missing in Tekken 3 if I'm not mistaken.
MasterCheef
Smash Ace
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Um do you not remember the Sakurai Presents ? where Sakurai specifically stated Kazuya worked werre Heihjachi did not ! ?
RileyXY1
Smash Hero
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I said something like that. I said that moveset potential was the reason why Kazuya was chosen over Heihachi.
Although, as I said, when Tekken is represented in crossovers Heihachi is typically who gets picked as its rep, such as in the PS2 version of Soul Calibur 2 and Playstation All-Stars. Smash was an outlier by picking Kazuya instead.
Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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I'm not gonna lie it always bugged me that the classic cast just dont show up in any of the games in this trilogy, we know they are around somewhere entirely because of the X cast existing in that worlds future but they just arent around.
I thought it was because his voice actor was available.
RileyXY1
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Sakurai states that it was indeed because of moveset potential, as Kazuya had more "pop" so to speak due to him possessing the Devil Gene which Heihachi did not have.
Hm, wasn't thinking of that; I assumed it was the same because significantly changing the AI would massively throw off the balance of the campaign maps, and from what I've seen so far those are virtually unchanged.
From a web search, the comments online seem inconsistent on potential changes, with the only consistent thing I see being that the AI doesn't "cheat" in fog (i.e. target units a human player wouldn't know are there) anymore. That is something, but it also doesn't seem like they changed anything in the affected campaign maps to offset the fact that this would make them easier than they were before.
There is also the new "Casual" difficulty mode; I assume the other two difficulties are more or less equivalent to the old ones. But simply making maps a little easier is not too much of a test.
I must confess I don't have the game in my own hands just yet; this is because my preorder was from so long ago that the game got mailed to a different address, so my copy is currently in another state right now! So I am going off of what I have seen online so far (I don't mind spoilers for a remake of a game I've already played haha).
Anyway, I amended some of the language in my earlier post because I'd like to give WayForward credit where it's due.
But the point still stands about there not being much in the way of new content or mechanics in this game, which potentially indicates a shorter leash given to WF by Nintendo.
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Well, I maintain that that’s the reason alongside, you know, Heihachi’s voice actor being dead.
Andy! He is the main man, and his personality also best represents what AW is all about.
Capybara Gaming
Just Vibing
This is objectively incorrect. The first third party character for each 3rd party series in the game is always the protagonist of their series, or if their series have revolving casts, the protagonist of the first game in that series, with the exceptions of the JRPG characters, who all come from series with revolving casts and always choose the most popular entry in their series. Even then, the first character for 3rd party series is always the protagonist. If they went for the most popular character, we would've had Zero, Alucard, Slime, and Iori, to say the least. And yeah, Slime and Alucard were considered, but those aren't the characters that got picked. We STILL got the protagonist.
Metal Gear: Snake
Sonic the Hedgehog: Sonic
Mega Man: Mega Man*
Pac-Man: Pac-Man
Street Fighter: Ryu
Final Fantasy: Cloud**
Bayonetta: Bayonetta
Castlevania: Simon*
Persona: Joker**
Dragon Quest: Arusu**
Banjo-Kazooie: Banjo & Kazooie
Fatal Fury: Terry
Minecraft: Steve
Tekken: Kazuya*
Kingdom Hearts: Sora
*Revolving Cast (Non-JRPG)
**Revolving Cast (JRPG)
For those uninformed, Arusu (The DQ3 Hero) was originally going to be the default (personally I think he should have been as he has the best design of the 4)
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Hadokeyblade
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I'm half expecting the next smash to just make the DQ3 hero the default alt, they clearly consider him to be given that he seemed to show up mor than the others in trailers.
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The first protagonist of Dragon Quest would be Erdrick's Descendant, then. Not Erdrick. Eleven is a more unique situation, and to be frank, an excellent choice too. Erdrick's great and all, but he is not recognizable enough in the US or EU on its own merits. Eleven had the special note that he was constantly advertised worldwide, so there was no recognizability issues. It's not hard to see why they went another direction. It made Hero sellable worldwide far better in the end. Eight is also highly popular in the West, which is part of why he got an alt. Solo was the final alt, but for other reasons beyond character popularity(or easy to push).
It's DLC and they're catering worldwide. Erdrick is the worst choice for that as he's not very easy to recognize outside of Japan, the only place he's legitimately iconic. Solo already has partial design cues from the first DQ protagonist(which also would've made for a good alt, specifically the DQ1 character), but not enough to work. That next leaves Eight, who while easier to recognize worldwide, wasn't that notable in Japan in comparison, making him closer to Erdrick's overall situation(popular in a specific area). Which eventually leads to Eleven, their only option to push worldwide overall that is guaranteed to be recognizable(mainly through advertisements). The choice was the best one possible to make it sell the best. Something important to remember is they want Dragon Quest to be bigger worldwide. They can't go off of mainly Japanese popularity to push it. Pushing the latest release makes this easier, as it's on more systems and the latest in the spotlight. It was a marketing attempt and ultimately the most effective way to work around the lack of US popularity of the franchise. ...And it worked. Really, really well. DQ games are happening far easier than they used to.
It wasn't even surprising that Erdrick took a backseat to the latest Hero either. As I said, marketing for worldwide appeal was far more important than a one-region iconic choice. If we were talking about solely one design, Erdrick or the DQ1 Hero are the best choices too(first one is highly recognizable worldwide, while the third Hero is respectively a hugely known one... though not enough outside of Japan). DQ is still closer to niche even now in the US and EU, and that makes sense. While it's selling better, it never took off hard enough to get its games consistently translated(at least compared to Final Fantasy, which rarely had a game not translated).
Overall? Marketing was more important than a single region iconicness. Catering to a sole region only really works outside of DLC, since there's a ton of other characters you already will get that'll cater better to you. It's why Little Mac worked best as base, cause he's pretty much barely known in Japan.
That said, Kazuya is also a protagonist, so it's not "first protagonist" or just "rotating cast", there's multiple factors and there's no hard rule.
...We didn't get Simon as the first character in Castlevania. We got Simon and Richter as a dual package(and yes, I can believe Simon would've been the only one, but it doesn't change the fact he isn't). They both came at the same time, and are represented by taking from each other. It's neither a first character or a revolving cast situation. It would be the latter if anything, and that doesn't work because of having two core representatives at once. Something the first Smash wasn't doing because Luigi was not planned from the start. Meanwhile it was noted that both Simon and Richter were added together.
----------------------
(Incidentally and related to another post, Heihachi would've gotten in regardless of the current voice actor passing away. Recycled voice clips or a new actor would've been just fine. He wasn't retired in his own series either cause of that. He's one of the three iconic characters, and while they may retire him eventually, it won't be because of a voice actor but because they feel his story arc is finished).
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Wonder Smash
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But Kazuya is still undeniably a popular character too is all I'm saying. Not saying that that's the reason why he was picked as the rep but he's definitely a popular character. Ultimately, him being a protagonist or main character at some point is a more important reason than just simply being popular.
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Jin, Jun, Heihachi and Kazuya are all very important and have all had huge followings throughout the years but having Heihachi be the rep made sense especially before he died in 6, so that plus Kazuya's Devil gene allowing him an in-game recovery move that "makes sense" put the odds higher in his favor.
Capybara Gaming
Just Vibing
Did you miss the part where I said that the JRPG protagonists are an exception and that they choose the characters from the most popular games? Even then, the three exception characters are still the protagonists of their games, soooo... yes, 100% there is a hard rule that the protagonist WILL get in first. And yes, Simon WAS the first character. He was revealed first, Richter is HIS echo, and we have confirmation Simon was highly requested. Richter is the bonus, but Simon WAS the first character.
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The logic doesn't work. Richter wasn't "added second to the game". He's an equal partner to Simon and both were chosen together to represent the franchise. They're both identical additions and were blended together moveset wise to make it interesting. The Echo label is even noted as "who is the real Echo here?" showing how little meaning it had. Simon could've had it and it barely made a difference. They're literally part of the same trailer to boot. The most the popularity did is figure out who is easier to call an Echo, but that's... not meaningful as a distinction on "whether one was actually chosen first." We know both were chosen to be in the game at the same time, so there's no case where one was more important than the other in that context. It's impossible to be, cause they were meant to be in together. As I'll note below, it's very rare for a franchise to get more than one character in the base game(and kind of a special case for DLC) without one being a last minute addition.
They both are direct representatives and added at the same time to represent Castlevania. There's nothing to support Richter is a secondary or a bonus. Quite the opposite. He was chosen at the same time as Simon(which already completely decimates your point. They both were chosen to represent it. They are equal partners in representing it as characters). Very few got actually more than one character in the base game without a special caveat of "last minute addition". Only Mii Fighters also technically have this claim(but less so than Casltevania, as they're treated as one character with multiple stances, at least at first. Ultimate treats the Mii Fighters as more separated than 4 did, weirdly enough, but that's the odd numbering system for you). They at most got a lucky second character... which cannot be applied to Castlevania regardless because we know Richter wasn't a legitimate bonus like you're claiming. The actual official statement is they were both chosen as protagonists because they both represented the most notable games in each region, while also being added at the same time(being a duo first character reveal-wise, specifically without any kind of caveat, which is pretty special in itself). So it can only apply to "rotating protagonists", again, as both got in on equal grounds and at the exact same time(same trailer and base game, with no "last minute character factor). Besides that, the only reason the Echo factor even exists for them is because they both borrowed moves from each other. Without that, they'd be two characters added at the same time, with zero special factors.
Reveal order only actually matters... well, never. Because if they're both in the base game, in order for it to legitimately matter, that means a character was added last minute as a concept, which no one in Ultimate was. Every base game character was 100% chosen from the start, as directly stated by Sakurai. It's impossible for Richter to be a bonus in that case, as he's not a last minute character in any way. Those are the only legitimate bonus characters(Brawl also holds this, as every single character programmed in a bit late were on the project plan. Wolf, for instance, was always going to be in the game if he can make it. Unlike Melee, 64, and 4, Brawl and Ultimate overall didn't bother with last minute ideas. Everything went exactly as planned for base game. Brawl's only case is some concepts didn't finish, instead. Whereas Ultimate's 11 newcomers came just as planned).
(The closest otherwise to DLC having multiple characters is that in some cases, Alts were treated as special. So Minecraft literally has two characters at once, with two amiibo. And that's not really the same thing as two separately playable characters. On the other hand, Pythra is two actual unique characters revealed overall at once, like Simon and Richter, or Robin and Lucina(Lucina at least was not intended to be playable, so doesn't count as a first Awakening rep intentionally, which is what a rule would mean), and represent their particular game as the first two at once. Of course, in this case, Castlevania intentionally got two characters at the same time to represent its franchise as a whole. It's an awkward situation and may never happen again, heh. But it's still the case directly, instead of more indirectly like Minecraft or for that matter, Dragon Quest, would be. Slight difference is DQ didn't bother having amiibo for the other 3, so it's pretty clear where it stands that Eleven is the main one).
Simply put? They were both in the same trailer, added at the same time in the base game's concept plans, were chosen at the same time to even be a thing(kind of redundant as the first), and are treated pretty equally as much as possible. Richter is well known as being the opposite of a bonus and a core character added in order to appease one region where Simon was added to appease the other. At most, they were secondary equal choices, in favor of Alucard, the original first thought. In fact, neither Simon nor Richter were voted for specifically but both added as equal protagonists because people just wanted "Castlevania in general". Thus, it's no surprise they weren't treated differently from each other in any way.
Finally, Echo doesn't mean bonus inherently. It can be. But it's not what really got Richter in. He would've been an alt with name differences otherwise if it was there. He can be called a bonus in an extremely technical sense due to the Echo factor, sure. ...But he was still chosen equally with Simon, meaning they were both the first characters added at the same time into the game itself to represent the franchise. That's why your thing is a stretch. You're using Echo as a major crutch to make your argument work when it doesn't really. Sometimes multiple characters are added at the same time for a franchise(as in not last minute). And if we do ignore last minute, a valid take, then both Pokemon and Super Mario had two characters at once(though it doesn't make sense development-wise). It's pretty much another stretch to make things work on the opposite end... which is exactly why the argument doesn't work either. If you need to stretch it to avoid the fact they were added into the game at the exact same time and equally, then it's a major fallacy in your rule. Simon isn't the first character in the franchise at the end of the day; Simon and Richter absolutely are instead. I could go on, but rules only work well if you don't include fallacies. You need to use a caveat to make yours work, while ignoring that Echoes were not actually last minute clone additions(meaning their purpose is not the bonus in the same way as you're claiming. To clarify this point more, they were added to the game because it was the only way they can think of, Richter aside, but they weren't added as bonuses like the older clones were, who were lucky to make it into the game at the last minute due to the fact there was enough development time. Generally, Echoes don't work this way, though could in the next game. See above on the Melee/64/Smash 4 statements, as they show it's a very different situation. Context cannot be ignored when trying to establish an actual pattern either).
They both are direct representatives and added at the same time to represent Castlevania. There's nothing to support Richter is a secondary or a bonus. Quite the opposite. He was chosen at the same time as Simon(which already completely decimates your point. They both were chosen to represent it. They are equal partners in representing it as characters). Very few got actually more than one character in the base game without a special caveat of "last minute addition". Only Mii Fighters also technically have this claim(but less so than Casltevania, as they're treated as one character with multiple stances, at least at first. Ultimate treats the Mii Fighters as more separated than 4 did, weirdly enough, but that's the odd numbering system for you). They at most got a lucky second character... which cannot be applied to Castlevania regardless because we know Richter wasn't a legitimate bonus like you're claiming. The actual official statement is they were both chosen as protagonists because they both represented the most notable games in each region, while also being added at the same time(being a duo first character reveal-wise, specifically without any kind of caveat, which is pretty special in itself). So it can only apply to "rotating protagonists", again, as both got in on equal grounds and at the exact same time(same trailer and base game, with no "last minute character factor). Besides that, the only reason the Echo factor even exists for them is because they both borrowed moves from each other. Without that, they'd be two characters added at the same time, with zero special factors.
Reveal order only actually matters... well, never. Because if they're both in the base game, in order for it to legitimately matter, that means a character was added last minute as a concept, which no one in Ultimate was. Every base game character was 100% chosen from the start, as directly stated by Sakurai. It's impossible for Richter to be a bonus in that case, as he's not a last minute character in any way. Those are the only legitimate bonus characters(Brawl also holds this, as every single character programmed in a bit late were on the project plan. Wolf, for instance, was always going to be in the game if he can make it. Unlike Melee, 64, and 4, Brawl and Ultimate overall didn't bother with last minute ideas. Everything went exactly as planned for base game. Brawl's only case is some concepts didn't finish, instead. Whereas Ultimate's 11 newcomers came just as planned).
(The closest otherwise to DLC having multiple characters is that in some cases, Alts were treated as special. So Minecraft literally has two characters at once, with two amiibo. And that's not really the same thing as two separately playable characters. On the other hand, Pythra is two actual unique characters revealed overall at once, like Simon and Richter, or Robin and Lucina(Lucina at least was not intended to be playable, so doesn't count as a first Awakening rep intentionally, which is what a rule would mean), and represent their particular game as the first two at once. Of course, in this case, Castlevania intentionally got two characters at the same time to represent its franchise as a whole. It's an awkward situation and may never happen again, heh. But it's still the case directly, instead of more indirectly like Minecraft or for that matter, Dragon Quest, would be. Slight difference is DQ didn't bother having amiibo for the other 3, so it's pretty clear where it stands that Eleven is the main one).
Simply put? They were both in the same trailer, added at the same time in the base game's concept plans, were chosen at the same time to even be a thing(kind of redundant as the first), and are treated pretty equally as much as possible. Richter is well known as being the opposite of a bonus and a core character added in order to appease one region where Simon was added to appease the other. At most, they were secondary equal choices, in favor of Alucard, the original first thought. In fact, neither Simon nor Richter were voted for specifically but both added as equal protagonists because people just wanted "Castlevania in general". Thus, it's no surprise they weren't treated differently from each other in any way.
Finally, Echo doesn't mean bonus inherently. It can be. But it's not what really got Richter in. He would've been an alt with name differences otherwise if it was there. He can be called a bonus in an extremely technical sense due to the Echo factor, sure. ...But he was still chosen equally with Simon, meaning they were both the first characters added at the same time into the game itself to represent the franchise. That's why your thing is a stretch. You're using Echo as a major crutch to make your argument work when it doesn't really. Sometimes multiple characters are added at the same time for a franchise(as in not last minute). And if we do ignore last minute, a valid take, then both Pokemon and Super Mario had two characters at once(though it doesn't make sense development-wise). It's pretty much another stretch to make things work on the opposite end... which is exactly why the argument doesn't work either. If you need to stretch it to avoid the fact they were added into the game at the exact same time and equally, then it's a major fallacy in your rule. Simon isn't the first character in the franchise at the end of the day; Simon and Richter absolutely are instead. I could go on, but rules only work well if you don't include fallacies. You need to use a caveat to make yours work, while ignoring that Echoes were not actually last minute clone additions(meaning their purpose is not the bonus in the same way as you're claiming. To clarify this point more, they were added to the game because it was the only way they can think of, Richter aside, but they weren't added as bonuses like the older clones were, who were lucky to make it into the game at the last minute due to the fact there was enough development time. Generally, Echoes don't work this way, though could in the next game. See above on the Melee/64/Smash 4 statements, as they show it's a very different situation. Context cannot be ignored when trying to establish an actual pattern either).
But yeah, you're using a fallacy to make this work, trying to throw in caveats that don't exist. It's a fun pattern, but doesn't work ironclad due to the context changing certain things you're claiming to be true, which makes them not as accurate overall.
(BTW, what you're saying is a pattern, not a rule. Especially as it's been established that Simon and Richter were both chosen equally together, and cannot be a special case of the first protagonist getting into the game, but both getting in at once instead. At most, it's a clear exception to the pattern, which is more logical to claim. And there's nothing wrong with that. Patterns are pretty consistently only workable if you ignore a lot of context to make them work. When in general, they're soft patterns that often do have minor breaks in them due to game development not working the same among each game, changing things up and not having anything more than fairly soft guidelines to help figure things out. One size doesn't fit all, etc).
...No, I can't think of a better way to shorten it, apologies.
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toonito
Smash Ace
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If Morrigan got into Smash and had this alt it would be the only alt i use lolMorrigan Sprite because Capcom haven't changed it once
chocolatejr9
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FWIW, Sega seems to be making a big deal about the Rovio acquisition:
セガは、フィンランドにて、Rovio Entertainment Oyjの買収に関する記者会見を行いました。モバイルゲーム領域の強化を通じて、コンシューマ事業のグローバル展開の加速を目指します。https://t.co/mcxoA0SCQS pic.twitter.com/aiaypYUlzU
— セガ公式アカウント🦔 (@SEGA_OFFICIAL) May 3, 2023
RileyXY1
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Of course they would. They now own the biggest franchise in the mobile gaming world, that being Angry Birds.
Capybara Gaming
Just Vibing
Even if what you're saying is correct, which is still an "If" the conversation is still in regards to third party characters, which STILL follow the rule of "protagonist always gets in first"
They don't do secondary characters or villains first, they have only done protagonists.
I'm done arguing semantics with you
Repping a new series in Smash yeah you're gonna get the main protag but if it's a series with different protags that can't easily be clones ... Hmm what are some new series (new to smash) that would have many reps to pick from so either get the DQ treatment with alt costumes or the CV treatment with clones?
Well in the chibi-robo series you play as a different one in each game
Are they drastically different or similar enough to be repped with alt costumes?
Erm I’ll get back to you on that one. I’ll need to check the in game costumes
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Probably none. Making two all new movesets is severely rare to come up. However, if it’s base, and the roster isn’t so huge it already takes away development time, Killer Instinct has Jago and Fulgore, who only shared some moves and general gameplay in the originals, but are super different in the 3rd core game(2013). In the original, it’s comparable to Samus and Falcon. By now, it’s more like how Cloud is to Ike(using the latter as a base), but even less similar than Fox and Cloud.
Siegfried and Nightmare otherwise have a semi-clone thing going on that’s somewhat similar to Villager and Isabelle. Nightmare, if only one, has more to his name in terms of abilities, so has a better chance to get in. (Fulgore is also the face of Killer Instinct, and the outright mascot, but that alone doesn’t mean he’d definitely get in first).
There's no "if". It is correct. You're not even bothering to counter the points but just plugging your ears.
There's no "first character" syndrome either, because it's an impossible statement within the actual context. Your rule still requires, in order for your actual statements to work(this is not semantics as you declared it that way), that only one character per franchise was actually chosen first. ...We both know that not to be true, so your pattern still has a hard flaw to it. To quickly clarify the problem, you're claiming Simon is truly the first character, despite them both being added at the exact same time. It can't be both for your claims to work. If both are treated as "protagonists first", then your claim he's the first character is immediately removed and doesn't work. Ultimately? You're contradicting yourself. This is the flaw here. You get one or the other.
There's nothing wrong with being wrong about your pattern. It's fine to revise it to realize it's a bit different from what you thought. It serves no purpose to refuse to take any kind of criticism to the statements you actually outright made. You made it clear exactly what you meant, so you can't really play the semantics game here anymore(besides it not being a rule or guideline, because those are official statements made by the developers of how the game works. Patterns are the only thing we can come up with. We both know they are 100% different factors. But even ignoring you declaring a pattern as a different definition aside, the contradictory statements you made does hurt your pattern).
Hmmm come to think about it if Fulgore got in and repped KI that would be an antagonist for once as a sole rep ...
I haven't seen the new Super Mario Bros. movie yet. Movie and I would love to see it and I think it is definitely the best movie. I have seen the anime movie Super Mario Bros.: The Great Mission to Rescue Princess Peach! of 1986, it was good but it had some faults although very few I would say. I've also seen the live-action Super Mario Bros. movie of 1993, I can say that I liked it, but almost 98% of it didn't have the scenery or creatures or items that it has in the Mario franchise, I mean it didn't have the Mushroom Kingdom, Koopa Troopas, Hammer Bros., Buzzy Beetles, Fire Flowers, Super Mushrooms etc. As for the Goombas there were pre-evolutions of Dinohattanites the humans that evolved from dinosaurs and are completely different, the Bob-ombs were tinny explosive figures, the Snifits were mask wearing Dinohattan garbage workers as well as President Koopa (Bowser) was also one Dinohattanite, just like Daisy.
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RileyXY1
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Technically, they went for Pyra and Mythra to rep Xenoblade Chronicles 2 over Rex.
chocolatejr9
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Or Nightmare(as he's a different person from Siegfried for a while now. Though he can be both, but only in the sense of using his body. Which doesn't really count anyway. As he's purely evil in Soul Calibur II and Siegfried outright lost his protagonist status when they're combined into one being).
I'd say moveset is the real factor in Killer Instinct. Being the iconic character isn't always enough. As ARMS proves by using the non-mascot and a special case of "anyone can be a protagonist"(except for those who obviously can't... even when they technically are only an antagonist among the 15, like Max Brass. Though by proxy he's both). Fulgore technically has the advantage, but we don't know how they'll go about the pattern of 3rd party inclusions. Whether it could be a dual release like Castlevania or not. They can't pull a dual release of alts like Dragon Quest or Minecraft, which also had some unique situations for how the alts work(though more could've been done on both ends. Herobrine and some more Heroes could've easily been used, either the female alts or otherwise. Not terribly much more, though. At the very least they gave colors referencing the previous Heroes, so that was cool~).
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A happy birthday to you then!
Gengar84
Smash Hero
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Happy birthday! I just had one myself last week.
- Joined
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Also using two characters to represent a specific game at once, but Rex was considered as a background character/part of the moveset, so while they are the first case of representing a game as a duo while not being a legitimate protagonist set, the franchise was in Smash, so it doesn't really matter. The point was more on the "yes, they can choose more than one character to add at the same time".
Castlevania obviously is the first case where it has two characters to represent a franchise first. Chosen at the same time overall to be added to the plan. With no official reason of who had to be an Echo(it minorly helped, of course). Ironically it was Richter, despite him being pretty clearly the core moveset, with Simon using mostly Richter's moves. Either way, added at once, hence why I stated the pattern has a flaw to it, heh.
Also, happy birthday.
But yeah, I agree Pyra/Mythra aren't exactly an exception to this. They would be if they were the first in their franchise. See my previous statement in this post of why I brought them up, though, as it was straight evidence that they have used two characters to represent a franchise and added them at the same time(or in this case, a specific game), the same way Castlevania was handled.