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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Gengar84

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Yeah i guess Maybe someone could make a next smash disscusion for stuff like Your Own Creations and fourth partys Again to just allow people to just nerd out about their unrealistic smash Pipe dreams!
That sounds like it could be fun idea. Right now, I think the best place to discuss our original characters and games is here:


Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong on that.
 

RileyXY1

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And I'm not expecting a Pokémon main series entry on the next system in its first two years. Pokémon has always been the last major Nintendo franchise to get a mainline game on the newest console and GF has a reputation for continuing to support older hardware.
 

Opossum

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And I'm not expecting a Pokémon main series entry on the next system in its first two years. Pokémon has always been the last major Nintendo franchise to get a mainline game on the newest console and GF has a reputation for continuing to support older hardware.
I mean, Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee were 2018 releases. That's not super late to the party all things considered.
 

Gengar84

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And I'm not expecting a Pokémon main series entry on the next system in its first two years. Pokémon has always been the last major Nintendo franchise to get a mainline game on the newest console and GF has a reputation for continuing to support older hardware.
Yeah, that seems logical. I’m kind of hoping that Smash releases at a time where Gen 9 is kind of old news but Gen 10 hasn’t been revealed yet. I feel like that’s the best chance an older Pokémon like Gengar has. It has the advantage of being promoted in every generation and usually gets represented in whatever current gimmick is of each Gen like a Mega and a Gigantimax. There are plenty of cool Gen 9 Pokémon too so it’s not the end of the world if we don’t get Gengar.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Again you guys seem to have misunderstood i dont want to even consider VSM in Smash until i have released my book!
And for why i havent released it yet well there are basically 0 People who have time to profread it!
I mean heck my first and second book is mostly done (Yeah they might be only 20 pages each but they are repurposed Game Scripts anyways so cut me some slack!) As well as im working again on a third book!
If i had an editor and a translator the first book would be probably out by now!
Im Just disagreeing with the sentiment that a indie character that was repurposed from game to book wouldnt make sense in smash!
And which legitimately realizable (as in not OC) character would fit this criteria? I’m guessing zero.

I have no issue with discussion in its own specified section with the idea that it is meant for serious discussion, but as you said, pipe dreams. People inserting an OC character though in a character discussion thread that is meant to discuss legitimate characters is the issue. There’s really no place for OC characters regardless of the intent involved in their development.
 

Opossum

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Also, "Pokémon is always the last major franchise to release a new mainline title" is just outright wrong.

Even just looking at the Switch, Let's Go came out before Three Houses, Dread, and New Horizons, and came out in the same year as Star Allies and Ultimate. I really don't understand the insistence that Pokémon is last. At most they wait a year or so (two with XY), but it's not like they're an outlier when it comes to major IP.
 

Gengar84

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And which legitimately realizable (as in not OC) character would fit this criteria? I’m guessing zero.

I have no issue with discussion in its own specified section with the idea that it is meant for serious discussion, but as you said, pipe dreams. People inserting an OC character though in a character discussion thread that is meant to discuss legitimate characters is the issue. There’s really no place for OC characters regardless of the intent involved in their development.
The closest I can come up with are Turok and Geralt. I believe both were created for books but I think more people are familiar with their video games. I could be wrong though. Lu Bu is another character that originated from outside gaming (both as a real person and a character from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms books). They don’t really fit the scenario in question but they are characters from books that I feel would make some sense in Smash.

Maybe Lucario is a more fitting example. Lucario was clearly created for the Pokémon games but showed up in a movie before ever appearing in the games themselves. If you want to get technical, you could call Lucario a movie or anime character since that’s where it showed up first despite its intention for being an advertisement for the upcoming generation of games. Ho-oh would fall into the same category due to appearing in the first episode of the anime before Gold and Silver were ever announced.

I could see an argument that at some point in the future, Sakurai could loosen his stance a bit and include characters that originated from outside gaming and include characters from other media that have a big presence in video games. That may never happen but I feel that there is least a chance of that.
 
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chocolatejr9

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Yeah, that seems logical. I’m kind of hoping that Smash releases at a time where Gen 9 is kind of old news but Gen 10 hasn’t been revealed yet. I feel like that’s the best chance an older Pokémon like Gengar has. It has the advantage of being promoted in every generation and usually gets represented in whatever current gimmick is of each Gen like a Mega and a Gigantimax. There are plenty of cool Gen 9 Pokémon too so it’s not the end of the world if we don’t get Gengar.
Given the DLC, I doubt Gen 9 will be "old news" anytime soon. Even then, I doubt they'd go for an older character in that scenario...
 

RileyXY1

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I mean, Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee were 2018 releases. That's not super late to the party all things considered.
Those were quick cash grabs to promote a mobile game and lack the traditional Pokémon gameplay.
 

Gengar84

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Given the DLC, I doubt Gen 9 will be "old news" anytime soon. Even then, I doubt they'd go for an older character in that scenario...
You’re probably right but I have to keep hope alive somehow lol. We did get Pokémon Trainer in Brawl (although they were arguably advertising Fire Red/Leaf Green). Maybe we’ll get another Gen 1 related project worth advertising before then.
 
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Gengar84

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Dude, EVERY Pokemon game is a quick cash grab at this point.
I can’t really argue there. I’d love if they let another developer make another more ambitious RPG with the franchise kind of like they did with Coliseum and XD on the GameCube with Genius Sonority but on a grander scale. At the very least, another Pokémon Stadium with better graphics and animation than the mainline games that let us use all existing Pokémon would be great.
 
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Schnee117

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Depending on when the new system launches, Gen 10 would be right around the corner if all parties are still insistent on maintaining the 3 year cycle for each generation.

Gen 10, if the cycle is maintained (it shouldn't be if future games are going to lack basic polish like Gen 9 does), is a 2025 release with rumours putting the new system at a potential 2024 release. That's a year turnaround on System Launch to new generation but it ignores that other Pokemon titles can release in that timeframe.

Those were quick cash grabs to promote a mobile game and lack the traditional Pokémon gameplay.
The Let's Go titles are counted as a part of the core series. Just because they did something different with the battle system despite otherwise maintaining the basic essence of the Kanto games isn't enough to make them a spin-off. If your Pokemon game has you going around catching and training Pokemon and battling in a turn based system then it's a core game, the devs are allowed to try different things within that formula.

You can't walk back being wrong by being wrong about something else.
 

HyperSomari64

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I can’t really argue there. I’d love if they let another developer make another more ambitious RPG with the franchise kind of like they did with Coliseum and XD on the GameCube with Genius Sonority but on a grander scale. At the very least, another Pokémon Stadium with better graphics and animation than the mainline games that let us use all existing Pokémon would be great.
Sadly, GS nowadays only make puzzles for mobile devices.

Dude, EVERY Pokemon game is a quick cash grab at this point.
I can't imagine how horrible an hypothetical Pokémon Kart would be.
 

Gengar84

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Depending on when the new system launches, Gen 10 would be right around the corner if all parties are still insistent on maintaining the 3 year cycle for each generation.

Gen 10, if the cycle is maintained (it shouldn't be if future games are going to lack basic polish like Gen 9 does), is a 2025 release with rumours putting the new system at a potential 2024 release. That's a year turnaround on System Launch to new generation but it ignores that other Pokemon titles can release in that timeframe.



The Let's Go titles are counted as a part of the core series. Just because they did something different with the battle system despite otherwise maintaining the basic essence of the Kanto games isn't enough to make them a spin-off. If your Pokemon game has you going around catching and training Pokemon and battling in a turn based system then it's a core game, the devs are allowed to try different things within that formula.

You can't walk back being wrong by being wrong about something else.
I think by mainline, they meant a new generation. At least that’s how I interpreted it.

Sadly, GS nowadays only make puzzles for mobile devices.
That’s too bad. It doesn’t have to be GS specifically. Another developer experienced in JRPGs like Monolith Soft, Atlus, Bandai-Namco, or Square-Enix could be a lot of fun too. I’d love to see any of their tales on Pokémon.
 
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RileyXY1

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The Let's Go titles are counted as a part of the core series. Just because they did something different with the battle system despite otherwise maintaining the basic essence of the Kanto games isn't enough to make them a spin-off. If your Pokemon game has you going around catching and training Pokemon and battling in a turn based system then it's a core game, the devs are allowed to try different things within that formula.

You can't walk back being wrong by being wrong about something else.
By your definition Colosseum and XD would also count as main series titles. And even Go itself as well.
 
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Opossum

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By your definition Colosseum and XD would also count as main series titles. And even Go itself as well.
Except Game Freak doesn't count those games as mainline. They do count Let's Go. Because they made Let's Go. They didn't make the Orre titles or Go. The only non-GameFreak game they consider mainline is BDSP, which was ILCA.

At this point you really just need to admit you were wrong for once. Catch some Pokémon instead of constantly catching L's.
 

Gengar84

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I feel like you guys are being a bit too harsh on someone just for using a term incorrectly. I’m pretty sure by mainline, they meant the first game in a generation. Anyways, it’s all just semantics and it seems kind of silly to tell someone to “take an L” just for having a different view on what makes a game mainline to them.

It seems to me that GameFreak classifies mainline as all new games of a generation as well as any updated versions (like Emerald) and remakes (like Fire Red). Let’s Go would fall into that second category. I do think it’s reasonable for a casual fan to just go by the base intro game (like Red or Blue) as their definition of mainline, even if it isn’t entirely accurate according to GameFreak since that’s how the term is used in most other long running series like Final Fantasy, Dynasty Warriors, Dragon Quest, or Disgaea. I’m curious if Square-Enix or their fans consider FFVII Remake a mainline Final Fantasy game as that seems to be a good analogy to Let’s Go.
 
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fogbadge

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It is up to the game developers to decide what is main series and what isn’t. Some people probably don’t count the two four swords and tri force heroes as main Zelda games but nintendo does

Btw what does take an L mean?
 

Gengar84

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It is up to the game developers to decide what is main series and what isn’t. Some people probably don’t count the two four swords and tri force heroes as main Zelda games but nintendo does

Btw what does take an L mean?
It means to accept that you lost something (in this example, an argument). The L is shorthand for loss.
 
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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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The closest I can come up with are Turok and Geralt. I believe both were created for books but I think more people are familiar with their video games. I could be wrong though. Lu Bu is another character that originated from outside gaming (both as a real person and a character from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms books). They don’t really fit the scenario in question but they are characters from books that I feel would make some sense in Smash.

Maybe Lucario is a more fitting example. Lucario was clearly created for the Pokémon games but showed up in a movie before ever appearing in the games themselves. If you want to get technical, you could call Lucario a movie or anime character since that’s where it showed up first despite its intention for being an advertisement for the upcoming generation of games. Ho-oh would fall into the same category due to appearing in the first episode of the anime before Gold and Silver were ever announced.

I could see an argument that at some point in the future, Sakurai could loosen his stance a bit and include characters that originated from outside gaming and include characters from other media that have a big presence in video games. That may never happen but I feel that there is least a chance of that.
The issue that is brought up that the character is “visualized for the gaming medium but made for the book medium.” It would be like if an entirely new Pokemon was created for the manga with the idea that it was meant to be included in the game but time constraints or what not limited it thus it was put into the manga but because of its roots as an intended video game character, it counts as one.

Or something like that.

Characters based on actual living people but redefined within their series is a different issue and one that is far more grayer and ill-defined than what we think it is

Now, some may think “does it matter?” and I would generally agree but it’s important staff who lays down the foundation of what should be permissible content for discussion in Smash discussion threads. We have continually pushed our goalpost on what is qualifiable content in years past so having a concrete ruling on what is allowed versus what isn’t allowed in not just one thread but in general character discussion is important.
 
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Idon

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Speaking of Pokemon, with regards to the anime, which smash has a habit of referencing, assuming the protagonist Liko evolves her sprigatito, we may see meowscarada take the spotlight for the next smash despite how early it is.

Though personally my pipe dream is they pull Ceruledge from what is presumably rhe new recurring bad guy
 

Gengar84

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The issue that is brought up that the character is “visualized for the gaming medium but made for the book medium.” It would be like if an entirely new Pokemon was created for the manga with the idea that it was meant to be included in the game but time constraints or what not limited it thus it was put into the manga but because of its roots as an intended video game character, it counts as one.

Or something like that.
Isn’t that the case for Lucario and Ho-oh? I think there are other examples from Pokémon as well like Lugia (who was created for the second movie and put into the games after the initial movie concept) and Togepi (who was in the first season of the anime in order to advertise Gold and Silver, which hadn’t been released yet). Perhaps more clear example is Ash Greninja, which was created for the anime (hence, the name) and added to the games (and Smash) afterwards.

This is a very interesting watch and relates to the current topic both of Pokémon and characters created for other media:


I might just be misunderstanding the scenario though.
 
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chocolatejr9

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Isn’t that the case for Lucario and Ho-oh? I think there are other examples from Pokémon as well like Lugia (who was created for the second movie and put into the games after the initial movie concept) and Togepi (who was in the first season of the anime in order to advertise Gold and Silver, which hadn’t been released yet). Perhaps more clear example is Ash Greninja, which was created for the anime (hence, the name) and added to the games (and Smash) afterwards.

I might just be misunderstanding the scenario though.
Heck, Ash himself was added to Pokemon Masters, and that game started adding playable characters based on generic trainer classes...
 

Gengar84

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On the subject of fish dudes, what does everyone think about ever getting a sprite or 2D drawn based character in Smash? We already have Game & Watch for a flat character and Steve has a unique graphical style. This mod for Ultimate shows that it’s possible:


We could potentially get characters straight from other Smash like games like Brawlhala in Smash without needing to have a model first like this guy:


I imagine Brawlhala must be at least somewhat successful if it keeps getting these big crossovers with properties like the WWE, TMNT, Tomb Raider, and Rayman so an original character from it might not be totally out of the question for Smash.
 
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fogbadge

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On the subject of fish dudes, what does everyone think about ever getting a sprite or 2D drawn based character in Smash? We already have Game & Watch for a flat character and Steve has a unique graphical style. This mod for Ultimate shows that it’s possible:


We could potentially get characters straight from other Smash like games like Brawlhala in Smash without needing to have a model first like this guy:

I have on occasion wondered if sakurai would put in 8 bit Mario
 

Gengar84

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Now that they’ve been revealed for Brawlhala, the TMNT have been playable in three platform fighters with Smash Up and Nick All Stars, which I think makes them the characters with the most appearances in the genre besides Smash itself. They’ve also appeared in two traditional fighters in TMNT Tournament Fighters and Injustice. That only leaves one place left to go. If only Sakurai would reconsider his stance on non game characters lol.
 
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Sucumbio

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They’re called fins. And ghirahim is wearing a cloak
Well yes, I know but to my blind self they look the same lol!

Speaking of which, this reminds me of a game my mom played with me as a child. She'd hide a Rubik's Cube or some other object "in plain sight" and send me into the room to find it. I never could cause it just blended in with the background. This is why I hate fountain of dreams cause I can't see anything and why the fish guy AT is the fish guy.

Others I name in my head however incorrect they're moniker may seem include hat guy, chop, big man. Yeop.
 

Gengar84

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Well yes, I know but to my blind self they look the same lol!

Speaking of which, this reminds me of a game my mom played with me as a child. She'd hide a Rubik's Cube or some other object "in plain sight" and send me into the room to find it. I never could cause it just blended in with the background. This is why I hate fountain of dreams cause I can't see anything and why the fish guy AT is the fish guy.

Others I name in my head however incorrect they're moniker may seem include hat guy, chop, big man. Yeop.
That reminds me of these YouTube videos from a few years ago. Some of the names are pretty funny.

 

Laniv

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On the subject of fish dudes, what does everyone think about ever getting a sprite or 2D drawn based character in Smash? We already have Game & Watch for a flat character and Steve has a unique graphical style. This mod for Ultimate shows that it’s possible:


We could potentially get characters straight from other Smash like games like Brawlhala in Smash without needing to have a model first like this guy:


I imagine Brawlhala must be at least somewhat successful if it keeps getting these big crossovers with properties like the WWE, TMNT, Tomb Raider, and Rayman so an original character from it might not be totally out of the question for Smash.
I think I heard someone talking about a Rhythm Heaven character that was completely flat back in the pre-Smash 4 era, that'd be neat
 

Schnee117

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On the subject of fish dudes, what does everyone think about ever getting a sprite or 2D drawn based character in Smash? We already have Game & Watch for a flat character and Steve has a unique graphical style. This mod for Ultimate shows that it’s possible:


We could potentially get characters straight from other Smash like games like Brawlhala in Smash without needing to have a model first like this guy:


I imagine Brawlhala must be at least somewhat successful if it keeps getting these big crossovers with properties like the WWE, TMNT, Tomb Raider, and Rayman so an original character from it might not be totally out of the question for Smash.
Morrigan Sprite because Capcom haven't changed it once :4pacman:
 

fogbadge

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Speaking of which, this reminds me of a game my mom played with me as a child. She'd hide a Rubik's Cube or some other object "in plain sight" and send me into the room to find it. I never could cause it just blended in with the background.
I don’t know how to react to this
 
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