Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[CapitaineCrash]

If Nintendo were following their portable model, this would add to the credence, since... basically all of them have had a "pro" model, in a matter of speaking. Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advance SP, DSi, New Nintendo 3DS...

There was the OLED. Like it or not, that was the upgrade model of the generation.

I recall earlier in 2022 the president of Nintendo reiterated that the Switch was "mid lifecycle" meaning a new console wouldn't be out until 2027! To me that's way too late for the next console. This year is TotK, Pikmin 4, and some random stuff like Etrian Odyssey, Diablo IV, etc. I think it's definitely a safe bet to expect a new console next year.

Well they said the same thing in 2020, so I'm pretty sure is just meaningless PR talk.

 

[dream1ng]

There was the OLED. Like it or not, that was the upgrade model of the generation.

Eh, sort of. I would liken it more to the DS Lite than the DSi. I guess the parallel to the GBA SP could be made, but I think the Color, DSi, and New 3DS were all a much more weighty upgrades.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Like, literally all Nintendo first party series thrived on the Switch, except DK! And I guess Star Fox and maybe F Zero if they still count.

You say that like Tropical Freeze Deluxe isn't a great Switch game.

 

[SPEN18]

Idk, would Nintendo really sit on stuff like Donkey Kong, Golden Sun, Kid Icarus, and/or Star Fox to launch with the next console? I guess I wouldn't rule it out, but it sounds like wishful thinking, too. All of those would make for great second-half releases for 2023 as well, but maybe that's even more wishful thinking...

 

[fogbadge]

You say that like Tropical Freeze Deluxe isn't a great Switch game.

Notice the use of the word “new” in the post

 

[Wonder Smash]

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to sacrifice either the quantity of DLC or the earlier release of the successor system (assuming its ready and not rushed) for the sake of breathing room after DLC, especially since getting the next system doesn't mean getting the next Smash.

At the earliest, you'd still have two years between DLC ending and the next system.

I guess to each their own, but I wouldn't want to lose out on or delay something else just to have more time with something that... won't go away once something new arrives. Though I'd be with you if it came to annual-release series.

I just think about Smash 4. I thought it could have lasted about three or four years before the next Smash game would be revealed. But then when Ultimate was revealed, which was just about two years after the last DLC for Smash 4, I was like "Already?". And despite all the fun I did have with Smash 4, even I felt that Ultimate instantly rendered it obsolete with the Everyone Is Here trailer. Just like that, after two years of being complete, Smash 4 was irrelevant.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You say that like Tropical Freeze Deluxe isn't a great Switch game.

It is. It's just not a new game.

Alright I'll even admit, it was my first time playing the game. I never owned a Wii U.

But even if it was a new experience , doesn't excuse the fact it's a crime that there's nothing else.

Nobody would say the same if it was for IPs as Mario, Pokemon or Zelda. And DK as a brand is in the same league. It can be stated with 100% confidence at this point as it's an official statement and sales back this up too.

 

[CannonStreak]

You know, not counting spinoffs, I am beginning to think Donkey Kong is getting the Mario treatment in the sense that it is one main game per system for Donkey Kong like Mario. With that, there is one Mario Kart per system as well, and we had a Deluxe version of Mario Kart 8 for the Switch like we had a Deluxe version of the Donkey Kong Country game for the Switch as well. There are some exceptions made, like how there was no main Mario game for the Wii U and two main Mario games for the Wii, but I think you can see what I mean here, plus we had one main Mario game for the Switch, too. We had one main Donkey Kong game for the Wii and Wii U before respectively.

I mean, this is just a thought, of course, nothing more, but I would not be surprised if they are treating main Donkey Kong games like main Mario games as well as Mario Kart games.

 

[Sucumbio]

Mario, Pokemon or Zelda.

Smash ... Haha literally all I get the next console for for 3 systems in a row

 

[DarthEnderX]

Notice the use of the word “new” in the post

Yeah, in a different sentence than "Like, literally all Nintendo first party series thrived on the Switch, except DK!". Which is the part I'm arguing with.

Like, would anyone try and make the argument that Mario Kart didn't thrive on the Switch, even though it never got a new game for it? MK8D is, like, the highest selling, most popular Mario game ever.

Likewise, Tropical Freeze did much better on Switch than it did on Wii U. Compared to his other two examples, F-Zero and StarFox, DK absolutely thrived on Switch by comparison.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Part of the frustration with DK is the larger context around the series. It got a very solid port on the Switch, but unlike MK8 Deluxe which is getting DLC and the general Mario Kart IP continuing to get updates to Tour and stuff like Home Circuit, Donkey Kong spin-offs and even something like a DKC Returns port haven't really been in the cards. In an era of various big Nintendo IP's getting side games consistently and even indie crossovers like Cadence of Hyrule, for a Donkey Kong fan its hard not to look at the last dozen years of the series and finding its overall output a bit wanting.

 

[MasterCheef]

How Nintendo would want to market their new console.

the reality is the majority of Nintendo's market is normies ; people for whom the technical details of how powerful a computer is ; mean nothing.

Therefore because the majority of the base is not looking for a next generation Switch , Nintendo will not market this upgraded Switch as such.

Nintendo will most likely market this next Generation Switch as a ; Switch Pro.

A new generation console means anyone who wants the new games has to buy one.

A mid generation refresh, not so much.

( Right now & neither next year ) Nintendo does not have the desire nor the game line-up to push the marketing of a new generation console.

A mid generation refresh as far as marketing goes is the optimal route.

more importantly a new significantly better powered console this year will allow Nintendo to take full advantage of their C.o.D. contract as well.

In short , the marketing campaign timing gap between a Next Generation console release and mid generation refresh will be quite different.

I feel like it’s too late for any kind of Switch Pro. It would have made sense a couple years ago but it’s getting close to the time that a console is nearing the end of its life. We don’t have any major games announced after Tears of the Kingdom so I think they are likely holding announcements for the reveal of the next generation. I not sure but I wouldn’t be surprised to hear an announcement about the Switch’s successor by the end of this year and be released some time in 2024.

Technically the lifecycle of the system ends when the support stops, not when the successor arrives. Most successful systems do still continue to get support after the next thing shows up, albeit reduced. And Switch would certainly constitute a success. The 3DS was supported into 2019.

Also I wouldn't take that statement too literally, just because I really doubt we'll still be getting first-party stuff on the Switch in 2027. My interpretation is that the Switch still has/had several more years left, phrased a little generously/disingenuously for the sake of the shareholders present.

new Kirby moveset Mod posted on Twitter ; I don’t like all of this but it’s still a cool mod!

.
I have a waaaay better move-set for Kirby

getting the next system doesn't mean getting the next Smash. you'd still have two years between DLC ending and the next system.

.
Honestly for the most part SSBU ; was almost complete upon launch except missing Stage builder. The only 3 DLC characters who have significantly affect tourneys are Steve , Kazuya & Pythra

Wanna make a pfp bet?

.
What is a ; pfp bet ?

 

[CannonStreak]

What is a ; pfp bet ?

I believe that is an avatar bet, meaning the loser has to change their avatar if they are wrong. I could be wrong, though.

 

[dream1ng]

Idk, would Nintendo really sit on stuff like Donkey Kong, Golden Sun, Kid Icarus, and/or Star Fox to launch with the next console? I guess I wouldn't rule it out, but it sounds like wishful thinking, too. All of those would make for great second-half releases for 2023 as well, but maybe that's even more wishful thinking...

Just because they're all sleeping doesn't mean Donkey Kong is like those other three. DK is bigger than a bunch of currently active Nintendo series.

and I didn't raise the other three, so I'm not sure why it seems like what I said re: DK is being applied to them, but Golden Sun, Kid Icarus and Star Fox have all showed up (or intended to show up) in launch windows of consoles. Nintendo literally used Kid Icarus as the first game to advertise the 3DS.

A game doesn't need to be big to show up in at the beginning of the lifecycle. If you launch without any big games, you'll have a tough time, but that doesn't mean they all have to be big. Nintendo puts smaller IPs in the launch window all the time.

But I didn't say anything about a Golden Sun, Kid Icarus or Star Fox being sat on. For one, unlike DK, those games aren't rumored to exist. Well, not a new Kid Icarus. I guess there's theories about a Golden Sun, but nothing more than that atm. Though Camelot's next game may be for the next thing whatever it is, just based on the timing. But I'm still not sure why these games are being equated to DK, which is genuinely a much bigger series.

 

[fogbadge]

( Right now & neither next year ) Nintendo does not have the desire nor the game line-up to push the marketing of a new generation console.

How do you know what Nintendos line up for next year is?

 

[MasterCheef]

How do you know what Nintendos line up for next year is?

History is a fantastic predictor of future behaviour.

 

[fogbadge]

History is a fantastic predictor of future behaviour.

You mean the history of Nintendo that tells us more often than not they announce a game less than a year before it’s out?

 

[Gengar84]

The only 3 DLC characters who have significantly affect tourneys are Steve , Kazuya & Pythra

I thought Joker was one of the best characters in the game. I would have thought he’d have at least as much tournament presence as these three.

 

[Oracle Link]

I still think its funny (and depressing) how people Wouldnt Count Videospiel-man as a videogame character anymore just because im not able to make a videogame (Right now atleast) and instead have to settle for a book!
Keep in mind that characters name is literally Videogame-Man!
I mean his chances of getting into smash a Zereo anyways but still this sentiment confuses me!

Guess i have to (if i finnaly get a team) make a videospielman Platt fighter!

 

[Opossum]

I still think its funny (and depressing) how people Wouldnt Count Videospiel-man as a videogame character anymore just because im not able to make a videogame (Right now atleast) and instead have to settle for a book!
Keep in mind that characters name is literally Videogame-Man!
I mean his chances of getting into smash a Zereo anyways but still this sentiment confuses me!

Guess i have to (if i finnaly get a team) make a videospielman Platt fighter!

I mean...obviously a video game character is a character from a video game. And your OC isn't from a video game. It doesn't matter what his name is. That has no bearing on the medium he comes from. And if he debuted as something other than a game, such as a book like you've suggested...then he'd be a book character, and not a video game character.

The name is irrelevant.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Dunno if this was shared yet but there has been a legal document that kinda tells us the next console is coming soon.

More specifically I'm talking about the "Cross-platform development" part. Really looking forward to the eventual reveal of this console.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'm assuming cross platform might refer to shared NSO/Expansion Pack elements between the Switch and its successor system.

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm assuming cross platform might refer to shared NSO/Expansion Pack elements between the Switch and its successor system.

Could this also mean more cross console games ?

 

[Oracle Link]

I mean...obviously a video game character is a character from a video game. And your OC isn't from a video game. It doesn't matter what his name is. That has no bearing on the medium he comes from. And if he debuted as something other than a game, such as a book like you've suggested...then he'd be a book character, and not a video game character.

The name is irrelevant.

I mean im obviously not talking about now because right now yeah hes an oc!
But if a character was designed as a videogame character and then had to be changed for the sole reason that making a game wasnt feasible than the character is still a Videogame Character by your logic every pokemon that debuted in the anime cant be used even tho they were designed for a game!
Anyways i dont have the mental strength to disscus right now (because im lonely) so if you could wait arround 2-3 Days than we can continue this Disscusion! I just dont want to get in a crossfire right now!

 

[SPEN18]

Just because they're all sleeping doesn't mean Donkey Kong is like those other three. DK is bigger than a bunch of currently active Nintendo series.

and I didn't raise the other three, so I'm not sure why it seems like what I said re: DK is being applied to them, but Golden Sun, Kid Icarus and Star Fox have all showed up (or intended to show up) in launch windows of consoles. Nintendo literally used Kid Icarus as the first game to advertise the 3DS.

A game doesn't need to be big to show up in at the beginning of the lifecycle. If you launch without any big games, you'll have a tough time, but that doesn't mean they all have to be big. Nintendo puts smaller IPs in the launch window all the time.

But I didn't say anything about a Golden Sun, Kid Icarus or Star Fox being sat on. For one, unlike DK, those games aren't rumored to exist. Well, not a new Kid Icarus. I guess there's theories about a Golden Sun, but nothing more than that atm. Though Camelot's next game may be for the next thing whatever it is, just based on the timing. But I'm still not sure why these games are being equated to DK, which is genuinely a much bigger series.

Yes, DK is a bigger franchise than the other three. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I wasn't responding directly to you only; Diddy Kong had brought up GS also so I was just musing about the various series that haven't shown up yet with brand new games on Switch. I can see how it would seem like a direct response to you; sorry for not being more clear. That post was like part commenting off what you said, part commenting off what Diddy said, and part my own wandering thoughts.

 

[Sucumbio]

Lol aww no need to get stressed out here we're just having discussion, Oracle Link and I think your idea was framed in a way to invite resistance but to your broader point I can imagine there's several characters who were developed but ultimately got nixed but then ended up as some other medium.

 

[HyperSomari64]

But if a character was designed as a videogame character and then had to be changed for the sole reason that making a game wasnt feasible than the character is still a Videogame Character by your logic every pokemon that debuted in the anime cant be used even tho they were designed for a game!

Counterpoint: Lugia was actually created by the head writer of the PKMN anime from the beginning up to early in Johto and wrote the first three films.
There was a video about it but the DYKG channel got hacked by crypto bros.
My point is that not all Pokémon were created for the games first. Remember when that weird manga starring Clefairy had an exclusive pokémon based on the Scrubblig Bubbles mascot?

 

[KingofFools]

I have a pretty good feeling that the Street Fighter reps are going to stay in the game, because Capcom as a company seems to be quite easy to work with.

However, if they are in the next game, I do hope they actually add some tracks from all the games, and not every single track from Street Fighter II and nothing else again.

 

[toonito]

I have a pretty good feeling that the Street Fighter reps are going to stay in the game, because Capcom as a company seems to be quite easy to work with.

However, if they are in the next game, I do hope they actually add some tracks from all the games, and not every single track from Street Fighter II and nothing else again.

feels like Ryu is currently Capcom's mascot for crossovers along with Chun-Li. Considering Smash is an offshoot of traditional fighting games I feel like the posterboy for the entire genre Smash came from should be safe from cuts going forward.

 

[HyperSomari64]

feels like Ryu is currently Capcom's mascot for crossovers along with Chun-Li. Considering Smash is an offshoot of traditional fighting games I feel like the posterboy for the entire genre Smash came from should be safe from cuts going forward.

Isn't Mega Man the mascot of Capcom as a whole?
(I would say Captain Commando, but even they forgot about it's existence otuside of re-releases and the Versus series)

 

[dream1ng]

How Nintendo would want to market their new console.

the reality is the majority of Nintendo's market is normies ; people for whom the technical details of how powerful a computer is ; mean nothing.

Therefore because the majority of the base is not looking for a next generation Switch , Nintendo will not market this upgraded Switch as such.

Nintendo will most likely market this next Generation Switch as a ; Switch Pro.

In short , the marketing campaign timing gap between a Next Generation console release and mid generation refresh will be quite different.

I'm just going to repost what I said last time you gave these points, because I don't think it was actually replied to

-> normies don't care about power upgrades
-> Nintendo will market this next gen Switch as a pro model... a more powerful upgrade

wat

Your points literally oppose each other. If normies don't care about power details, the last thing you would want to do is base the branding of the next thing on it being [a more powerful upgrade of] [an existing system], because then, according to your own argument, the [more powerful upgrade] part won't mean anything to them, and they'll just see it as [an existing system].

You're basically saying normies don't care about power details so market this thing based on power details. That's what a "Pro" SKU is. It's not marketed as a new system, it's marketed as a more powerful version of an existing system.

If normies don't care about power, market this as a new system. They'll know it's more powerful, but they'll also care about the fact that it's something they in no way own, and will be the only way to play whatever new games are shown going forward. If you say it's not the next Switch, it's just the Switch Pro, and then show a game their current console runs, normies will be less likely to buy what they think they already own, even if they have the weaker version. If you say it's the Switch 2, normies will make the distinction that it's something that they in no way possess. They'll be more invested in owning it.

This was one of the Wii U's main problems, normies just thought it was more Wii.

But also, Normies do care about whether a system is more powerful btw, they just don't understand/care about specs. If you say the next Switch will have a custom Tegra T234 based on Ampere GPU with DLSS 2.2, their eyes will glaze over. But if you say the next Switch will have better graphics, faster processing, longer battery and more storage, that will matter to some of them.

That was the entire conceit of "blast processing".

You don't know what you're on about tbh.

A new generation console means anyone who wants the new games has to buy one.

A mid generation refresh, not so much.

That's an exact reason why new consoles come out. And believe it or not, after six or seven years, a lot of consumers are ready to buy a new console in ways they wouldn't be in, let's say, half that time, when Pro models tend to come out. Too early and they'll feel shortchanged.

( Right now & neither next year ) Nintendo does not have the desire nor the game line-up to push the marketing of a new generation console.

The big contradiction here is Nintendo's slate past July is completely empty, which
a) gives no info about their line-up to justify your assumptions
b) is, even for Nintendo standards, quiet, and
c) would be exactly how things would play out if there were to be a new unrevealed console coming, because those reveals won't preempt the system, they're going to be used in its marketing.

You would have a much stronger point if we were faced with the opposite: known holiday/2024 first-party Switch titles.

But they almost certainly do have big games far in development, such as whatever the Mario Kart and Odyssey teams are working on. It's also been a while since we've heard from Grezzo, Camelot and Nd Cube. Plus the nebulous MP4 could always be moved, and the Pokemon games are near annual.

And that's without the rumors of games like the EPD DK, Metroid 6, the FE remake, Astral Chain 2, and the Namco 3d action game (if it's not Baten Kaitos).

A mid generation refresh as far as marketing goes is the optimal route.

Not if the goal is to sell more units and you actually have the software in a state ready to support the hardware, whether in marketing or release.

And your argument for the former contradicts itself, while your argument against the latter seems to be based on the fact that you think because we haven't seen any games post-Pikmin means there aren't any, when this is exactly what would be happening if they were gearing up for the actual next thing.

more importantly a new significantly better powered console this year will allow Nintendo to take full advantage of their C.o.D. contract as well.

1) They don't have a CoD contract yet. They have a provisional agreement that can't go into effect until the merger happens.
2) The merger, if it happens at all, won't happen in time for them to get a CoD game this year.
3) Microsoft cares more about this CoD contract than Nintendo does
4) If it comes down to branding of Pro vs 2, either would be able to run CoD. This isn't somehow a pro-Pro point.

History is a fantastic predictor of future behaviour.

Well that certainly doesn't support releasing a pro revision after seven years instead of a new console, does it?

Honestly for the most part SSBU ; was almost complete upon launch except missing Stage builder. The only 3 DLC characters who have significantly affect tourneys are Steve , Kazuya & Pythra

While it's inarguable that the vast majority of the content was there from the beginning, the FGC isn't the barometer for what counts as content. If it was Melee would have like 10 characters... on a good day.

What is a ; pfp bet ?

I believe that is an avatar bet, meaning the loser has to change their avatar if they are wrong. I could be wrong, though.

Yeah, an avatar bet.

You seem very sure that what's next will be conveyed as a more powerful version of the current model. Would you care to make an avatar/pfp wager on it?

 

[toonito]

Isn't Mega Man the mascot of Capcom as a whole?
(I would say Captain Commando, but even they forgot about it's existence otuside of re-releases and the Versus series)

probably but SF is a more popular franchise than Mega Man and Ryu tends to be the go-to rep for Capcom crossover. I'd argue Ryu has overtaken Mega Man's place in current Capcom hierarchy.

Mega Man was absolutely the more popular pick in terms of Capcom representation in Smash.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Isn't Mega Man the mascot of Capcom as a whole?
(I would say Captain Commando, but even they forgot about it's existence otuside of re-releases and the Versus series)

Was: Mega Man WAS the mascot of Capcom. Nowadays, they only care about the same three IPs: Street Fighter, Resident Evil, and Monster Hunter. Mega Man hasn't had a new game since Mega Man 11, not counting stuff like XDive and the rereleases.

 

[dream1ng]

Tbf the mascot isn't necessarily the character that gets the most of their own content.

Mickey is still Disney's mascot. But they care way more about Marvel and Star Wars and even stuff like Frozen. It's even more glaring with WB and Bugs Bunny, when they have DC and Harry Potter and Game of Thrones and whatnot.

Pac-Man is Namco's mascot, and he still gets small-scale releases, but right now they're basically From's benefactor with some Tekken and various Jump IP thrown in.

I agree Ryu is Capcom's crossover mascot. And I'm not sure if Mega Man is still their mascot. But I'm also not sure he's been supplanted by anyone else either as a whole for the company. Ultimately I do think MM is safer, Smash-wise.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Isn't Mega Man the mascot of Capcom as a whole?
(I would say Captain Commando, but even they forgot about it's existence otuside of re-releases and the Versus series)

I don't think Capcom as an official mascot as a whole. It's just that Mega Man and Ryu seem to be the closest things to it.

And as we saw, both characters made their Smash debuts in the same game.

 

[Ivander]

I'm assuming cross platform might refer to shared NSO/Expansion Pack elements between the Switch and its successor system.

That's the easy guess, since quite a bunch of rumors talked about how Nintendo wanted to bring NSO/Expansion Pass to the next system. There is also the possibility of backwards compatibility or moving the Switch's eShop content over to the next console as well.

 

[pikachu9999]

Chris Hansen joins Smash and his Final Smash is reporting the IP address of the player's Switch to the local police.

 

[fogbadge]

Chris Hansen joins Smash and his Final Smash is reporting the IP address of the Switch to the local police.

can someone translate this?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I just think about Smash 4. I thought it could have lasted about three or four years before the next Smash game would be revealed. But then when Ultimate was revealed, which just about two years after the last DLC for Smash 4, I was like "Already?". And despite all the fun I did have with Smash 4, even I felt that Ultimate instantly rendered it obsolete with the Everyone Is Here trailer. Just like that, after two years of being complete, Smash 4 was irrelevant.

It doesnt help that Ultimate mostly feels like a deluxe edition of 4.

That's the easy guess, since quite a bunch of rumors talked about how Nintendo wanted to bring NSO/Expansion Pass to the next system.

Frankly they would be stupid NOT to do this.

Was: Mega Man WAS the mascot of Capcom. Nowadays, they only care about the same three IPs: Street Fighter, Resident Evil, and Monster Hunter. Mega Man hasn't had a new game since Mega Man 11, not counting stuff like XDive and the rereleases.

I feel like Megaman is too Capcom what Mickey is too Disney.


It's the mascot but it doesnt get as much content as other IP's they own.

 

[Soy_Man]

I feel like Megaman is too Capcom what Mickey is too Disney.


It's the mascot but it doesnt get as much content as other IP's they own.

Kinda feels like Megaman is just a merchandising brand now. At least Capcom still acknowledges it's existence.