Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

LoL , How is the next major Xenoblade villain not going to be a Xenoblade 4 Rep?

Sell me on the villain that doesn't exist first.

 

[MasterCheef]

If you read my first reply ; you would know i started with Alvis. I just think if Monolith Soft & Nintendo make a great villain for Xenoblade 4 the villiam is highly potential to bne out the main character. at least it would make it waay more interesting.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If you read my first reply ; you would know i started with Alvis. I just think if Monolith Soft & Nintendo make a great villain for Xenoblade 4 the villiam is highly potential to bne out the main character. at least it would make it waay more interesting.

Do you understand how hard it is for a villain to eclipse a main hero in popularity? Smash almost always picks heroes first because they're mostly more popular.

Chances are, the main hero is going to be more popular, and if past characters are on the table, do you have any idea how many characters are more popular than Alvis? We could get Melia, Fiora, Dunban, Riki, Elma, Rex, Nia, Morag, Zeke.... the choices are immense. Even villains like Malos and Jin are more popular. (Also, can we really count Alvis as a true villain considering spoilery stuff?)

This reeks of pushing villains when there isn't really a villain who can be pushed. I love playing as villains. I main Ridley. But the villains in Smash are fun, because they're actually big deals within their own franchise and out of it. They're major characters in their own right. None of them are ten or twenty spots down the list of popular characters within their own franchises.

You can't just push villains in general. Especially ones that don't even exist yet. And your choices in villains need to be more inspired, more major and more popular.

There aren't any K.Rool or Ridley size villains left (in regards to first party franchises). We cannot create them artificially. Otherwise I'd be all up on the DJ Octavio train.

 

[Idon]

A story heavy rpg will always use a lead over a villain when it comes to fighting game collabs. They represent the game's story and mechanics and are obviously who the player will spend 99.9% of the time playing as and attaching themselves to.

It's also perplexing why you'd expect the villain of a Xenoblade game to be popular as all of the past ones are fully overshadowed im popularity compared to the leads.

 

[Soy_Man]

I

I ask people who they want in smash all the time. I get elma a lot more often than toad.

Edit: i do polls all of the time. It's literally my main hobby. Anytime I join a server I ask if I can post my loll and if I can I do. Anytime I join a live stream I post the link to my poll. Elma is more requested than toad. I can post the link to one with over 300 votes. You're literally all wrong

Polls, that have a data pool of a few hundred discord users, aren't accurate representations of what the Smash fandom as a whole wants.

And even if we treat it as such, do you want Smash to just be a popularity contest? Personally, I'd much rather characters be decided by people with an actual vision, and not by random insular online communities.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If you want something that has villains that eclipse the heroes, you have Fulgore from Killer Instinct(the actual mascot of it. Albeit, Jago is not far behind whatsoever), Nightmare(more popular than Siegfried, and they are sometimes the same person), and... we kind of having one with Kazuya, who has been a villain before. But also a hero, so doesn't really count.

It's just not normally the case the villain(or a villain) in a franchise heavily outweighs the heroes. Sure, Mortal Kombat edged on it with Scorpion, but he wasn't actually evil to begin with. Nor was Sub-Zero, the other big popular character(though do note it varies due to odd timeline shenanigans too). Shao Kahn also is super popular, respectively, but Scorpion more or less is an anti-hero now.

Now try to find it that often in other works. You'll notice the player character tends to be really damn popular in most cases. Fighting Games don't always have a deliberate core hero, or may not have a straight storyline right away. And even in some cases, that won't matter(like with Fulgore). RPG's in most cases the player character is often highly popular. The villains sometimes outweighs them. But it's prettttttttttty rare. There's also factors like "how do we represent the mechanics of said game when making a character. If the villain is highly popular, can they really represent it well enough?". Let's say M. Bison was more popular than Ryu(he isn't, mind you). His mechanics are not about combos or unique inputs in the same way. He wouldn't really show off the really cool points about Street Fighter, and isn't a great choice for that purpose. He's a cool choice beyond that. Fighting Games are ultimately about the unique mechanics, as that's what makes each one fairly interesting beyond just the characters. So these mechanics have consistently transferred over to Smash to really show the capabilities of the franchise~ We sometimes get those for RPG's like Fire Emblem(it's how Counter as a move came about), and Hero emphasized this too. Pokemon plays with it in variables.

 

[RileyXY1]

I highly doubt it to be honest. I mean, Fire emblem have 8 characters and they never bothered adding vilains. If anything, after Noah and/or Mio they would probably just wait for the Xeno 4 rep or Elma or a X-2 rep or wathever next game.




Hum no. If anything, I wouldn't be shocked if he was the least voted veterans on the ballot. Snake and Wolf were huge request, Pokémon trainer was heavily requested despire Charizard already being there, Ice climbers probably got lot of vote too becase I remember people being genuinely sad that they got cut, and Pichu probably got a few votes just for the meme.

There was a Majora's Mask remake coming out around the same time as the ballot so I believe that Young Link got a lot of votes just for that. Mostly because Majora's Mask itself is a very popular Zelda game, a lot of people expected Young Link as a promotional pick for the remake, and a lot of people wanted Young Link to have a heavy moveset revamp to better represent Majora's Mask.

 

[MasterCheef]

Do you understand how hard it is for a villain to eclipse a main hero in popularity? Smash almost always picks heroes first because they're mostly more popular.

Chances are, the main hero is going to be more popular, and if past characters are on the table, do you have any idea how many characters are more popular than Alvis? We could get Melia, Fiora, Dunban, Riki, Elma, Rex, Nia, Morag, Zeke.... the choices are immense. Even villains like Malos and Jin are more popular. (Also, can we really count Alvis as a true villain considering spoilery stuff?)

This reeks of pushing villains when there isn't really a villain who can be pushed. I love playing as villains. I main Ridley. But the villains in Smash are fun, because they're actually big deals within their own franchise and out of it. They're major characters in their own right. None of them are ten or twenty spots down the list of popular characters within their own franchises.

You can't just push villains in general. Especially ones that don't even exist yet. And your choices in villains need to be more inspired, more major and more popular.

There aren't any K.Rool or Ridley size villains left (in regards to first party franchises). We cannot create them artificially. Otherwise I'd be all up on the DJ Octavio train.

So My challenge is I get the Impression Noah and Mio are going to return for Xenoblade 4. Please correct me with evidence if am wrong. Which i would be pleased if there was sufficient evidence.
Also we already have three heroes from this franchise, so why not a villian ?
Another thought is this franchise seems to continue the ( swapping / stat change mechanic ) would it be desirable to keep continuing it on to whatever Smash game / DLC releases after Xenoblade 4 ?

 

[HyperSomari64]

IDK why, but this "secret level" on the GBA version of Donkey Kong Country screams FINAL BOSS STAGE

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Just replace the macros of DKC's worlds with Smash stages.

EDIT: Was this the inspiration for Kira Kira Star Night DX?

 

[chocolatejr9]

So My challenge is I get the Impression Noah and Mio are going to return for Xenoblade 4. Please correct me with evidence if am wrong. Which i would be pleased if there was sufficient evidence.
Also we already have three heroes from this franchise, so why not a villian ?
Another thought is this franchise seems to continue the ( swapping / stat change mechanic ) would it be desirable to keep continuing it on to whatever Smash game / DLC releases after Xenoblade 4 ?

I'm not sure you fully understand what we're trying to say here. First off, why are you bringing Noah and Mio into XC4? This is a rotating cast series, of course they're not coming back (and that's WITHOUT going into spoilers). Also, we've BEEN explaining why they likely won't add any villains anytime soon: THEY'RE NOT AS POPULAR AS THE PROTAGS. Zanza barely got any meaningful screentime, I've seen more people hype up Jin than Malos (though admittedly, that might just be me), and I've already forgotten about 3's villain because he's such a nothing character. What makes you think XC4 will fair any better in that regard?

 

[MasterCheef]

I'm not sure you fully understand what we're trying to say here. First off, why are you bringing Noah and Mio into XC4? This is a rotating cast series, of course they're not coming back (and that's WITHOUT going into spoilers). Also, we've BEEN explaining why they likely won't add any villains anytime soon: THEY'RE NOT AS POPULAR AS THE PROTAGS. Zanza barely got any meaningful screentime, I've seen more people hype up Jin than Malos (though admittedly, that might just be me), and I've already forgotten about 3's villain because he's such a nothing character. What makes you think XC4 will fair any better in that regard ?

maybe it is me. i just find all three of Xenoblade's main male protagonists to be completely forget-able and entirely uninteresting

Although it does seem as though Monolth Soft is building Alvis to be the big end villian.

 

[Sucumbio]

Kefka would be a nice addition to Smash and was my personal favorite character in ff6. I wouldn't expect many others to agree tho.

 

[chocolatejr9]

In other news, Atari seems to be making some big moves:

Atari is acquiring more than 100 PC and Console Titles from the 80s and 90s (including Bubsy, Hardball, Demolition Racer series, as well as the 1942: Pacific Air War, F-117A, and F-14 air combat series) https://t.co/UHHB5swGAK pic.twitter.com/lAsR7RoS7R

— Wario64 (@Wario64) April 20, 2023

Doubt this'll affect Smash anytime soon, but it's worth noting.

 

[SPEN18]

This conversation reminds me of, for ex., people predicting Sylux for Ult. Like, yeah, it seems likely that he would play a big role in the big upcoming game MP4, but it's so purely speculative until that narrative actually comes to fruition, i.e. the game is actually released to the public. Which we've seen doesn't always happen on schedule...

I know everybody's out there looking to make that giga-brain, twenty-steps-ahead prediction that actually comes true, but you always have to take speculation about unreleased games with a massive grain of salt.

I get that Sakurai's history of choosing characters before the public even knows of their existence makes this kind of game a constant component of people's predictive speculation. But tbh I personally think it more healthy to focus on the characters we already have in front of us whose existence is actually certain. I get why people want to speculate on gen 10 and whatnot, but even in the thick of that discussion let's not forget about the 1000+ candidates who are already at large...

 

[CapitaineCrash]

There was a Majora's Mask remake coming out around the same time as the ballot so I believe that Young Link got a lot of votes just for that. Mostly because Majora's Mask itself is a very popular Zelda game, a lot of people expected Young Link as a promotional pick for the remake, and a lot of people wanted Young Link to have a heavy moveset revamp to better represent Majora's Mask.

I genuinely never saw anyone bring up Young Link as a promotional pick for Majora mask 3d. If anything, people were just pushing even more for Skull kid.

 

[Perkilator]

I genuinely never saw anyone bring up Young Link as a promotional pick for Majora mask 3d. If anything, people were just pushing even more for Skull kid.

...I guess I might've...long after the fact...back in 2022...?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

maybe it is me. i just find all three of Xenoblade's main male protagonists to be completely forget-able and entirely uninteresting

Although it does seem as though Monolth Soft is building Alvis to be the big end villian.

Their girlfriends are better characters.

 

[MasterCheef]

Their girlfriends are better characters.

exactly

 

[Idon]

This conversation reminds me of, for ex., people predicting Sylux for Ult. Like, yeah, it seems likely that he would play a big role in the big upcoming game MP4, but it's so purely speculative until that narrative actually comes to fruition, i.e. the game is actually released to the public. Which we've seen doesn't always happen on schedule...

I know everybody's out there looking to make that giga-brain, twenty-steps-ahead prediction that actually comes true, but you always have to take speculation about unreleased games with a massive grain of salt.

I get that Sakurai's history of choosing characters before the public even knows of their existence makes this kind of game a constant component of people's predictive speculation. But tbh I personally think it more healthy to focus on the characters we already have in front of us whose existence is actually certain. I get why people want to speculate on gen 10 and whatnot, but even in the thick of that discussion let's not forget about the 1000+ candidates who are already at large...

I wholeheartedly agree.

Discussions about hypothetical characters/games may perhaps be correct in the long-term, but they're ultimately not very useful or entertaining to talk about.
"I predict Smash 6 will add a character from a new IP that has its first game on the Switch successor!" is 99.9% going to be true, but there's not much to discuss from that statement.

 

[DarthEnderX]

In other news, Atari seems to be making some big moves:

Atari: "We want to own MAME."

 

[fogbadge]

so one the subject of xenoblade, how about shulk's future remembered look for an alt in the next smash?

 

[Idon]

so one the subject of xenoblade, how about shulk's future remembered look for an alt in the next smash?

I already mentioned this before so I'll just quote myself

Unlikely.

The new Shulk has a prosthetic arm, which beyond just looks, means in-animation he can't use his right hand to swing the sword. So then that means they'd have to reanimate a bunch of stuff. Possible for sure, but it'd definitely be the extra mile.

Hope he gets his DLC costume from Xenoblade DE at least.

Also, it's "Future Redeemed"

 

[Diddy Kong]

I actually love the idea of Gengar84 to have the Ouroboros form of Noah and Mio as the XBC3 new character for Smash. I just don't think it's very likely to happen, typically such a super form is saved for the Final Smash, but I think it could easily work. My other idea is , have Noah and Mio share a move set thus a slot. Or have them as Echoes, like Simon and Richter.

Also, Toad, as in THE Toad is probably extremely likely due to his Movie role. Same with Cranky Kong. I see them as the most likely Mario verse newcomers. Waluigi and Pauline next. Don't underestimate the roles of the Mario Movie. I could see Dixie make it regardless of this too, but Cranky seems likelier without a new appearance. Also! This movie was a blast. Loved every minute of it.

Anyway chances are huge for newcomers of Xenoblade, Mario, DK, Zelda, Fire Emblem and Pokemon.

 

[RileyXY1]

I genuinely never saw anyone bring up Young Link as a promotional pick for Majora mask 3d. If anything, people were just pushing even more for Skull kid.

I've heard people talking all about how they wanted Young Link to receive a revamp to better represent Majora's Mask, including him having the three masks that he can change between during combat.

 

[fogbadge]

Also, Toad, as in THE Toad is probably extremely likely due to his Movie role. Same with Cranky Kong. I see them as the most likely Mario verse newcomers. Waluigi and Pauline next. Don't underestimate the roles of the Mario Movie. I could see Dixie make it regardless of this too, but Cranky seems likelier without a new appearance.

i'll take it

 

[Gengar84]

I actually love the idea of Gengar84 to have the Ouroboros form of Noah and Mio as the XBC3 new character for Smash. I just don't think it's very likely to happen, typically such a super form is saved for the Final Smash, but I think it could easily work. My other idea is , have Noah and Mio share a move set thus a slot. Or have them as Echoes, like Simon and Richter.

Also, Toad, as in THE Toad is probably extremely likely due to his Movie role. Same with Cranky Kong. I see them as the most likely Mario verse newcomers. Waluigi and Pauline next. Don't underestimate the roles of the Mario Movie. I could see Dixie make it regardless of this too, but Cranky seems likelier without a new appearance. Also! This movie was a blast. Loved every minute of it.

Anyway chances are huge for newcomers of Xenoblade, Mario, DK, Zelda, Fire Emblem and Pokemon.

Thanks, I’m glad you liked my idea. I agree it’s probably not the most likely option but I think it would be the most interesting. My logic is that since they can fuse at the beginning of every battle, it’s not really used as a finisher like typical Final Smash attacks. The finishers in Xenoblade 3, in my opinion, are the chain attacks and the unique attack for the Ouroboros that you need to build up the gauge for (I forget the names of those specifically). With that, you could easily have the fusion as the default playable character and use one of those attacks as the Final Smash. Their stage intro could be the two characters starting separately and forming the fusion form before the match begins.

I love coming up with concepts to make characters stand out as unique while keeping them faithful to their own in game portrayals in new ways. I tend to focus more on whether a character can have an exciting and interesting moveset rather than defaulting to anyone just because they are the lead or most popular but it’s cool if anyone has different priorities. Of course, if we can come up with a unique moveset for the main characters that’s fun and exciting, all the better. That’s just my personal opinion.

That’s one reason I tend to push for kind of out there movesets like Dixie Kong utilizing the Animal Buddies for her specials rather than simply be an echo of Diddy. There is plenty of room to represent every move Dixie has canonically performed along with the Buddy specials that you’re not taking anything away from her as a faithful portrayal. I know that’s a bit of a controversial idea but I think it would be a lot of fun.

 

[Oracle Link]

Honestly the pushback both toad and Bandana Waddle Dee Got/ Get is ridicoulous!
They are at the very least the 4th main Protagonist of their respective Franchises!
Yet they are dismissed for some really weird Choices:
Waluigi is spinoff mario character which gives him almost nothing to work with and he unlike daisy cant be an echo!
And Marx a somewhat better choice but still Tons Of Kirby Fans would be really unhappy with him (Which checks out as a certain someone is basically him but better executed!)

On a diffrent note
I would love for the Next Smashes Kirby Descriptions to be written by Shinya Kumazaki i mean think about if we get trophys back all the neat lore!

 

[Gengar84]

Honestly the pushback both toad and Bandana Waddle Dee Got/ Get is ridicoulous!
They are at the very least the 4th main Protagonist of their respective Franchises!
Yet they are dismissed for some really weird Choices:
Waluigi is spinoff mario character which gives him almost nothing to work with and he unlike daisy cant be an echo!
And Marx a somewhat better choice but still Tons Of Kirby Fans would be really unhappy with him (Which checks out as a certain someone is basically him but better executed!)

On a diffrent note
I would love for the Next Smashes Kirby Descriptions to be written by Shinya Kumazaki i mean think about if we get trophys back all the neat lore!

I think both Toad and Bandana Dee definitely deserve a spot in Smash and I’d be happy to see them. Personally, I find both a bit plain in my opinion so neither are really at the top of my most wanted list. My preference is a bit out there though as my most wanted Mario character is a Goomba and my most wanted Kirby character is Bugzzy so take that how you will.

 

[fogbadge]

I think both Toad and Bandana Dee definitely deserve a spot in Smash and I’d be happy to see them. Personally, I find both a bit plain in my opinion so neither are really at the top of my most wanted list. My preference is a bit out there though as my most wanted Mario character is a Goomba and my most wanted Kirby character is Bugzzy so take that how you will.

well it makes me slightly better for wanting chilly after bandana

 

[Gengar84]

well it makes me slightly better for wanting chilly after bandana

Chilly is probably my second favorite Kirby enemy so I’d be happy to see it too. We could use more ice element characters too.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I actually love the idea of Gengar84 to have the Ouroboros form of Noah and Mio as the XBC3 new character for Smash. I just don't think it's very likely to happen, typically such a super form is saved for the Final Smash, but I think it could easily work. My other idea is , have Noah and Mio share a move set thus a slot. Or have them as Echoes, like Simon and Richter.

Also, Toad, as in THE Toad is probably extremely likely due to his Movie role. Same with Cranky Kong. I see them as the most likely Mario verse newcomers. Waluigi and Pauline next. Don't underestimate the roles of the Mario Movie. I could see Dixie make it regardless of this too, but Cranky seems likelier without a new appearance. Also! This movie was a blast. Loved every minute of it.

Anyway chances are huge for newcomers of Xenoblade, Mario, DK, Zelda, Fire Emblem and Pokemon.

Depending on Fire Emblem's release schedule, I would be more confident in it for a DLC spot than the base game. I think we are probably going to get one, its just whether we get it during the base game or we get it during DLC. No matter what, people will cope seethe mald over the inclusion because it was not insert character they liked better and how they stole the spot of insert character here.

I could see Toad getting a boost from the Mario movie, same with Kamek and Cranky Kong. For the latter two it just depends on how they get treated after the movie. Toad as always just depends on Peach losing Toad in her moveset, which while I would not be opposed to I just do not feel as likely. I would not be opposed to Toad/Captain Toad/whatever variant of the little dude they go with appearing, but I just am not quite sold yet.

We are probably getting at least one Mario newcomer though. There's a solid shot we get two. I would say bet on Pauline first, especially with how Nintendo is handling her for the spinoffs. If she shows up in MK8D's DLC (which is likely imo) that almost ends it. I could see us getting a Toad or Waluigi as well, hell maybe even a King Boo. I think after the Mario movie if Kamek becomes a bit more of a player outside of the Yoshi games we could end up seeing him. Cranky Kong I think also depends on the direction DK goes. If we get him in the next DK platformer again, I could see them go with him as a fully unique character.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, I feel like having a presence outside the games themselves can go a long way in helping a character’s chances for Smash as it increases their exposure to new fans. I feel like the Mario movie, the Sonic movies, and Arcane were all huge hits that appealed to audiences outside of pure gamers and helped to expand each of their fanbases. For that reason, I think it’s reasonable to think we could see a new Mario, Sonic, and League of Legends character in the next game.

 

[RileyXY1]

Yeah, I feel like having a presence outside the games themselves can go a long way in helping a character’s chances for Smash as it increases their exposure to new fans. I feel like the Mario movie, the Sonic movies, and Arcane were all huge hits that appealed to audiences outside of pure gamers and helped to expand each of their fanbases. For that reason, I think it’s reasonable to think we could see a new Mario, Sonic, and League of Legends character in the next game.

I don't know if another Sonic rep will come because of how poorly the series is treated in Smash. Notably there's only one remix, and it's been there since Brawl. Notably Sonic is the only character in all of Smash Ultimate whose victory theme is ripped straight from another game. Sega themselves also appear to prefer representing their other IPs over adding another Sonic character, as shown when Bayonetta joined Smash 4 and Joker joined Ultimate.

 

[Gengar84]

I don't know if another Sonic rep will come because of how poorly the series is treated in Smash. Notably there's only one remix, and it's been there since Brawl. Notably Sonic is the only character in all of Smash Ultimate whose victory theme is ripped straight from another game. Sega themselves also appear to prefer representing their other IPs over adding another Sonic character, as shown when Bayonetta joined Smash 4 and Joker joined Ultimate.

Fair but no one would have really expected Sephiroth for those same reasons. Cloud wasn’t (and still isn’t) dubbed and we only had two Final Fantasy songs that were both straight game rips.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm not sure that they would even add a character to promote a non-game piece of media. Mario reps would get in regardless, unless this is an Ultimate Deluxe situation and there's very few newcomers. Every Smash game except for Brawl added a new Mario character, unless you count Diddy Kong and Wario as Mario reps.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm not sure that they would even add a character to promote a non-game piece of media. Mario reps would get in regardless, unless this is an Ultimate Deluxe situation and there's very few newcomers. Every Smash game except for Brawl added a new Mario character, unless you count Diddy Kong and Wario as Mario reps.

I think that’s looking at things too narrowly. It’s not necessarily promoting the non game piece specifically but the franchise as a whole. For Sonic for example, we also just got Sonic Frontiers that they could promote. The more exposure the IP and characters get across different platforms, the better each is likely to perform since there is always the chance someone who liked one aspect (for example, the movie) would want to check out other things from that IP if they enjoyed it (for example, Frontiers) or vice versa. I think that’s the smarter way to promote long running IP’s like Sonic. Rather than focusing on a single game or movie, promoting the franchise as a whole helps each of them. Smash representation is just another piece of the larger picture to help a franchise’s general popularity.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I've heard people talking all about how they wanted Young Link to receive a revamp to better represent Majora's Mask, including him having the three masks that he can change between during combat.

Personally i always wanted for his final smash to turn him into Fierce diety while doing a triforce slash

 

[FazDude]

I think the only changes I'd make to Yink are the aforementioned Fierce Deity FS, the roll as a dash attack, and maybe the slingshot as Neutral Special. Otherwise, I wouldn't wanna change much about his kit - Sure, there are the mask transformations, but I feel like those could get clunky (though I wouldn't be opposed to the masks themselves showing up as alts).

 

[Opossum]

Honestly the pushback both toad and Bandana Waddle Dee Got/ Get is ridicoulous!
They are at the very least the 4th main Protagonist of their respective Franchises!
Yet they are dismissed for some really weird Choices:
Waluigi is spinoff mario character which gives him almost nothing to work with and he unlike daisy cant be an echo!
And Marx a somewhat better choice but still Tons Of Kirby Fans would be really unhappy with him (Which checks out as a certain someone is basically him but better executed!)

On a diffrent note
I would love for the Next Smashes Kirby Descriptions to be written by Shinya Kumazaki i mean think about if we get trophys back all the neat lore!

It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest Waluigi has "nothing to work with" when he's been given a ton of things to work with over the years.

 

[Gengar84]

It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest Waluigi has "nothing to work with" when he's been given a ton of things to work with over the years.

Yeah, he could just incorporate a bunch of moves from the various spin-offs he was involved in. I’m not really sure Toad does a whole lot that other Mario characters haven’t already done in Smash either. Peach already has the vegetable pulling covered. Plus, having nothing to work with never stopped characters like Fox, Captain Falcon, Wii Fit Trainer, Villager and Duck Hunt. I normally prefer a character to have a faithful moveset but I don’t mind filling in moves for characters that never fought hand to hand before.