Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Wonder Smash]

What about Lololo & Lalala? For some strange, there's barely any talks about them.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

All this heated debate about the villainy of Dedede and Meta Knight basically confirms that Kirby is severely misrepresented in Smash in ways I've never considered before. Dedede and Meta Knight are as much of antagonists as the other players in Mario Party these days. But even if that wasn't the case, how does that equate to a lack of need for more Kirby villains? Some of Kirby's most popular games only introduce new antagonists.

I've known that Smash has been underserving Kirby for years, but it's getting to the point where I'm widely considering Smash's inability to use anything meaningful beyond Air Ride as a detriment.

 

[Soy_Man]

I saw King Dedede at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.
He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”
I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

The Sakurai Kirby biais is genuinely the stupidest theory ever. He actually wanted to give Kirby a new stages based on Kirby epic yarn in Smash 4, but he replaced it last minute with the Yoshi's wooly world stages because Yoshi's game was in development and he thought it was a good idea to add content from a future game at the time. The lack of modern Kirby music as nothing to do with Sakurai because apparently composers pretty much choose the music they want to remixes.

The lack of Bandana dee isn't a huge conspiracy about Sakurai hating modern kirby. It's just that other characters were considered higher priority. I think that for the next game Bandana dee will be way more seriously considered because of his bigger roles in Forgotten land and the big sales the game made.

I said this before but the only characters I’m expecting for the next Smash first-party-wise are Bandana Dee, Octoling, and a XB3 character.

People say Xenoblade 3 could “rotate out of relevancy” but like it’s a pretty big deal? It’s sold almost 2m copies in less than a year and was nominated for Game of the Year in addition to a ton of other accolades. I personally feel like whether it’s Noah, Mio, or both in some way, we’re garenteed to get something from that game on the roster.

The other two I don’t really think I need to explain much and with all due respect @TCT~Phantom explained Octoling very well.

Yeah I agree with your point with XB3 characters. I think the worst case that could happen is if the next Smash is so far off that we have a Xeno 4 or X-2 and that would pretty much killed XB3 characters chance. To be fair I don't think we'll see a new Xeno soon, but Monolith soft have a very fast release schedule so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that there's a new Xeno before Smash 6.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I feel like adding another Kirby character outside of Dee would just be adding another for the sake of it.

Oh hey this is what i feel about the Zelda series in smash as it is right now lol

 

[fogbadge]

The Sakurai Kirby biais is genuinely the stupidest theory ever. He actually wanted to give Kirby a new stages based on Kirby epic yarn in Smash 4, but he replaced it last minute with the Yoshi's wooly world stages because Yoshi's game was in development and he thought it was a good idea to add content from a future game at the time.

Yes it’s not like he left in a stage based on his own game and reworked a super Mario land stage into another. Oh wait

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The Sakurai Kirby biais is genuinely the stupidest theory ever.

Nah, there has definitely been far dumber theories.

 

[Mamboo07]

Oh hey this is what i feel about the Zelda series in smash as it is right now lol

Skull Kid, Midna, Impa

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

The Sakurai Kirby biais is genuinely the stupidest theory ever. He actually wanted to give Kirby a new stages based on Kirby epic yarn in Smash 4, but he replaced it last minute with the Yoshi's wooly world stages because Yoshi's game was in development and he thought it was a good idea to add content from a future game at the time. The lack of modern Kirby music as nothing to do with Sakurai because apparently composers pretty much choose the music they want to remixes.

The lack of Bandana dee isn't a huge conspiracy about Sakurai hating modern kirby. It's just that other characters were considered higher priority. I think that for the next game Bandana dee will be way more seriously considered because of his bigger roles in Forgotten land and the big sales the game made.

You can't say that, not even in the context of Smash speculation, where folks were assuming a set of character inclusions was hinted at in a couple of chair colors. It's one thing to assume we don't have enough to verify the theory, and another to just call it baseless.

Fact is, other than the Epic Yarn quote, we don't have enough evidence for any of the decisions made for Kirby in Smash. Because of this, the severe lack of influence from anything other than Sakurai games unfortunately speaks volumes.

Arguably, what little we can look at based on that one Smash 4 interview reveals some red flags. Epic Yarn was not originally a Kirby game, and wasn't made by the Kirby team, yet that's the game they almost chose, before replacing it with a stage from a different game that Good-Feel made. But rather than choosing to use something newer for Kirby, or even opting out of giving it a stage, they just chose another Super Star location. And then Ultimate preceded to keep GCO, while completely ditching the stage that replaced Epic Yarn's representation.

But even without Bandana Dee being added as a fighter, there's a ton of other odd decisions that catch my attention. Why only three enemies from Super Star and Adventure as assists? Why so few items or remixes from beyond that circle? Why Marx as a boss over anyone else, especially with those strange attributes he has that don't even match Ultra's representation of the character? Like, I get that this all could be a coincidence, but some things just don't match, and given the context of Ultimate's decisions in particular, I really don't consider all this baseless to assume at least some form of deliberate omission.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I don't think Sakurai has any sort of antipathy towards Kirby content he didn't make... but the lack of inclusion for various later elements does leave me suspecting he doesn't have much strong interest in them either.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

How do you guys feel about the idea of Elfilin as an Assist Trophy?

You can't say that, not even in the context of Smash speculation, where folks were assuming a set of character inclusions was hinted at in a couple of chair colors.

Not to mention the people who actually thought Sakurai being replaced with a younger person would lead to a higher roster diversity in terms of LGBT representation and such. And I remember the Pac-Man in clouds theory that was a thing after the April 2014 Smash 4 Direct.

 

[Perkilator]

How do you guys feel about the idea of Elfilin as an Assist Trophy?

Even as someone who beat the main story of Forgotten Land, I'm not really sure what he'd do as an Assist Trophy?

 

[PeridotGX]

The Sakurai Kirby biais is genuinely the stupidest theory ever. He actually wanted to give Kirby a new stages based on Kirby epic yarn in Smash 4, but he replaced it last minute with the Yoshi's wooly world stages because Yoshi's game was in development and he thought it was a good idea to add content from a future game at the time.

Sakurai leaping at the opportunity to add content from a game that came out a year after Smash 4 instead of from a Kirby game he didn't make... really isn't the refutation of bias you claim it to be. I don't think it's malicious or even intentional, it's probably some mixture of apathy towards modern games and visions he has about the content he created, but that's a really bad example.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Not to mention the people who actually thought Sakurai being replaced with a younger person would lead to a higher roster diversity in terms of LGBT representation and such. And I remember the Pac-Man in clouds theory that was a thing after the April 2014 Smash 4 Direct.

We have Byleth tho, that's two Bisexual characters in one.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Skull Kid, Midna

One-and-done losahs!

Impa

Approved.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If there were to be a stage from Forgotten Land, what would you want it to be?

We have Byleth tho, that's two Bisexual characters in one.

Corrin is also bisexual, so that means that 1/4th of the FE cast in Smash is LGBT.

Really though, the obvious reason why diversity in terms of real world representation isn’t prioritised, aside from the fact that Smash has always focused on representation of characters and franchises, is that request of that nature isn’t all that common and only a vocal minority is upset that Sakurai doesn’t prioritise those factors. And considering that a single character can take up to a year in development, that’s not going to change if Sakurai gets replaced with a younger person.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Corrin is also bisexual, so that means that 1/4th of the FE cast in Smash is LGBT.

Really though, the obvious reason why diversity in terms of real world representation isn’t prioritised, aside from the fact that Smash has always focused on representation of characters and franchises, is that request of that nature isn’t all that common and only a vocal minority is upset that Sakurai doesn’t prioritise those factors. And considering that a single character can take up to a year in development, that’s not going to change if Sakurai gets replaced with a younger person.

Also we all pretend it didnt happen but Luigi is bisexual in the RPG canon lol

 

[Mamboo07]

If there were to be a stage from Forgotten Land, what would you want it to be?

Either the shopping mall or Wondaria.

 

[Super Devon]

I'm curious, what third party characters do you think will return from Ultimate as well as series past? I'm curious to know what the forum thinks

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm curious, what third party characters do you think will return from Ultimate as well as series past? I'm curious to know what the forum thinks

All of them except the DLC 3rd parties.

 

[Perkilator]

If there were to be a stage from Forgotten Land, what would you want it to be?

Waddle Dee Town

 

[fogbadge]

I'm curious, what third party characters do you think will return from Ultimate as well as series past? I'm curious to know what the forum thinks

sonic, megaman and pacman feel like the safest to me. b&k were said to be an easy deal so i think they have a decent shot perhaps. steve took five years so probably not. by all accounts sega, NB and SE are still on good terms with nintendo so their other characters will just come down to all parties being willing. konami, no idea. as for sora it's really difficult to say, disney were keen as was sakurai but that's no guarantee of everything lining up perfectly again

 

[Zerp]

Imma be honest, outside of maybe Magolor, I feel like adding another Kirby character outside of Dee would just be adding another for the sake of it.

I love the series but outside of Dee and Magolor I can’t think of a reason to justify including more Kirby characters since none of them are prominent enough to warrant justifying an inclusion (Sorry Adeline)

I'd argue Void is "important" enough if we're talking about the grand scheme of things. Who needs to be in more than one game when you have like half the franchise building up to you anyway? But yeah otherwise agreed. And like, I'd be a liar if I said importance is something I seriously care for. I'm all for adding more Kirby for the sake of more Kirby haha. Void being "important" isn't the main reason I want them lol.

How do you guys feel about the idea of Elfilin as an Assist Trophy?

Oh I'd love that, Elfilin is awesome. As for what he'd do, I'd imagine he'd

Spoiler: Forgotten Land Spoilers

make a portal that could send people all over the place. Or maybe, he could use Fecto Elfilis' powers. He did absorb Forgo/Elfilis at the end of the postgame, wouldn't be shocked if he could use some of their attacks after that.

If there were to be a stage from Forgotten Land, what would you want it to be?

Wondaria, Winter Horns and Alivel Mall would all be awesome. I've actually had the pleasure of playing on stages based on the first two thanks to Rivals of Aether mods. And I gotta say, they're great! Really opened my eyes to how much I'd love them in Smash lol.

Spoiler: Large Images

 

[Aligo]

Honestly… Not a bad point. And yeah Awakening basically had a similar impact on it’s series that XB3 did since they were both the turning points that made the franchises become more mainstream.

I still think the next Xenoblade is probably far off though, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what happens though.

Didn't that already happen with XC2 and smash dlc? It doesn't feel that 3 has really done too much for the series overall. Sure it was promoted far more aggressively than past games in the series, but was not that more to do with a lack of other significant titles for directs and TotK delays?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I'm curious, what third party characters do you think will return from Ultimate as well as series past? I'm curious to know what the forum thinks

Pretty much everyone from Capcom is safe because it's Capcom and they'll lend their IP's to anyone who asks nicely.

 

[fogbadge]

Didn't that already happen with XC2 and smash dlc? It doesn't feel that 3 has really done too much for the series overall. Sure it was promoted far more aggressively than past games in the series, but was not that more to do with a lack of other significant titles for directs and TotK delays?

you mean the game that shared its directs with splatoon 3 and Pokémon scarlet violet?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Sakurai leaping at the opportunity to add content from a game that came out a year after Smash 4 instead of from a Kirby game he didn't make... really isn't the refutation of bias you claim it to be. I don't think it's malicious or even intentional, it's probably some mixture of apathy towards modern games and visions he has about the content he created, but that's a really bad example.

I guess that's fair, but my point is that if he hated modern Kirby that much he wouldn't have considered a new Kirby stages at all. And to be honest, I feel that if Ultimate had more new stages, we would probably had a new Kirby stages based on Planet robobot, but since there was only room for 4 new stages (before dlc) Kirby couldn't really had one. I'm sure in Smash 6 there's going to be a Forgotten land stages.

 

[Aligo]

I'm curious, what third party characters do you think will return from Ultimate as well as series past? I'm curious to know what the forum thinks

Provided that bandai namco still works on smash in the future, I am pretty sure that their properties will stay. Sega stuff seem pretty secure too. Makes me wonder if konami will play ball or go funky again.

Edit. Pokémon releases happen yearly, and splat 3 is a sequel to a successful game that is already on switch. Both of those games are also rather multiplayer focused, while first party single player content had been rather limited at the time.

3 also made heavy use of past game material in its promotion, moreso than any other game in the series, despite its lack of contribution to the overall plot of the series.

 

[PeridotGX]

I'm curious, what third party characters do you think will return from Ultimate as well as series past? I'm curious to know what the forum thinks

It all hinges on how cooperative the third party in question is. Sega, Namco, and Capcom all seem to be pretty easy to work with, so I think all of their characters are safe. Considering how much SNK content we ended up getting, and the company's relative smallness, Terry probably is too. Then we enter the dicey realm. Rumors suggest that Square was being really difficult when it came to adding Cloud in Ultimate, and without having the bargaining chip of "you'll be the only holdout for Everyone is Here and everyone will know why" I could see them skipping the base roster - but they seem to be very fond of DLC fighters so they'll probably come back then. Konami is the only company to actually skip a game, and once again they don't have Everyone Is Here to force their hand - I could see Snake and the Belmonts not making it back. The last two are incredibly variable based on how the next few years go. Microsoft is a competitor in the hardware market, they're playing nice at the moment but things could very well shift and they could have a schism. And then we have Disney. Not only are they one of the biggest entertainment companies in the world, but their Smash character is also tied to Square, themselves a more dicey company. Nintendo is also working with Universal/Comcast, a company that ****ing hates Disney. But on the other hand, Disney has had a few weak years, and if things don't improve they might be open to a quick cash infusion like putting Sora back in Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

It all hinges on how cooperative the third party in question is. Sega, Namco, and Capcom all seem to be pretty easy to work with, so I think all of their characters are safe. Considering how much SNK content we ended up getting, and the company's relative smallness, Terry probably is too. Then we enter the dicey realm. Rumors suggest that Square was being really difficult when it came to adding Cloud in Ultimate, and without having the bargaining chip of "you'll be the only holdout for Everyone is Here and everyone will know why" I could see them skipping the base roster - but they seem to be very fond of DLC fighters so they'll probably come back then. Konami is the only company to actually skip a game, and once again they don't have Everyone Is Here to force their hand - I could see Snake and the Belmonts not making it back. The last two are incredibly variable based on how the next few years go. Microsoft is a competitor in the hardware market, they're playing nice at the moment but things could very well shift and they could have a schism. And then we have Disney. Not only are they one of the biggest entertainment companies in the world, but their Smash character is also tied to Square, themselves a more dicey company. Nintendo is also working with Universal/Comcast, a company that ****ing hates Disney. But on the other hand, Disney has had a few weak years, and if things don't improve they might be open to a quick cash infusion like putting Sora back in Smash.

you know they were working with them when they licensed sora for ultimate? and why would who they hate affect Nintendos own things?

 

[Aligo]

you know they were working with them when they licensed sora for ultimate? and why would who they hate affect Nintendos own things?

Disney is not exactly a rational company at the best of times. A bit like Nintendo with fangames, they may end up lashing out for seemingly no financial gain. Old companies are liable to get a bit strange it seems.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Konami puts its characters in indie games now; I don't think another big crossover on a Nintendo console (which Konami's made good money on recently with stuff like Momotaro Dentetsu & eBaseball titles) is something they'll really resist unless they ask for too much money. Whether or not its Snake and the Belmonts I don't know, but I'd be genuinely surprised none of their characters get in.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I'm curious, what third party characters do you think will return from Ultimate as well as series past? I'm curious to know what the forum thinks

I don't know which character I think will return for sure but I do think negotiations with whatever companies are involved should be a lot easier the next time around. With this being Smash, I can picture those companies coming back to be part of a series like this again.

 

[fogbadge]

Disney is not exactly a rational company at the best of times. A bit like Nintendo with fangames, they may end up lashing out for seemingly no financial gain. Old companies are liable to get a bit strange it seems.

but there is financial gain and they know it

 

[NintenZ]

Didn't that already happen with XC2 and smash dlc?

Not really no, 2’s reception was pretty lukewarm, it has it’s fans but 3 was the first one that was generally recognized and taken seriously by mainstream outlets.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I have a gut feeling that Sora is a character who isnt getting cut, since they opnly said he was the most requested character in Smash history so they are definitely awareof the demand for him being here, so they would definitely at least TRY to bring him back.

 

[Aaayei]

I have a gut feeling that Sora is a character who isnt getting cut, since they opnly said he was the most requested character in Smash history so they are definitely awareof the demand for him being here, so they would definitely at least TRY to bring him back.

Sora's another one of those characters I think mostly got in thanks to DLC giving the character's owner (in this case Disney) a bigger piece of the profits.

I don't see him as base game material, but I think he'll get in most future games via being locked as DLC each time.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Sora's another one of those characters I think mostly got in thanks to DLC giving the character's owner (in this case Disney) a bigger piece of the profits.

I don't see him as base game material, but I think he'll get in most future games via being locked as DLC each time.

Oh yeah totally, i dont think he'll ever be base game but he will totally be back.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm not sure Xenoblade 3 is seen as a huge stepping stone for the franchise.

There's been in upward trend in terms of sales and recognition, but I don't think any of them have received an "Awakening" style moment yet.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm curious, what third party characters do you think will return from Ultimate as well as series past? I'm curious to know what the forum thinks

Everyone is Here. Forever!