Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[HyperSomari64]

SEGA do own Napple Tale yeah

Are there any collectables of it on Battle of AGES?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Well he made it in a silly stream with his friends where he let his chat make some of the choices and he just went ham on his bias for fun.

It's not meant to be taken that seriously

Dude, we're Smash fans. We take EVERYTHING seriously. Must I remind the world of the chairs and the Grinch?

 

[Sucumbio]

Lol the chairs.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Dude, we're Smash fans. We take EVERYTHING seriously. Must I remind the world of the chairs and the Grinch?

2018 Smash speculation was a trip man

 

[NintenZ]

I saw you guys talking about skepticism over an enhanced port of Smash Ultimate, so I had an idea of what they could possibly do for it to alleviate licensing issues

My idea is what Street Fighter 5 did, you’d basically the original game but rebranded but for the version for the next system it would come with a code that has all of the new content on it, that way they can organize a loophole for the companies that will only allow their characters being available as DLC.

Just an idea I had.

 

[Idon]

I saw you guys talking about skepticism over an enhanced port of Smash Ultimate, so I had an idea of what they could possibly do for it to alleviate licensing issues

My idea is what Street Fighter 5 did, you’d basically buy a straight port of the original game, but for the version for the next system it would come with a code that has all of the new content on it, that way they can organize a loophole for the companies that will only allow their characters being available as DLC.

Would this impact being able to upgrade your own copy for the next system? No idea, but it’s possible licensors might not allow it but at the same time would cut down on having to pay again I guess, just an idea I had.

I fail to see how an upgrade of Smash Ult constitutes as a "Port". The exact same issues arise the moment you have to actually port that game to a different console. This doesn't really fix anything.

 

[NintenZ]

I fail to see how an upgrade of Smash Ult constitutes as a "Port". The exact same issues arise the moment you have to actually port that game to a different console. This doesn't really fix anything.

Maybe I should've been more careful with my wording but yeah it's an upgrade instead of a port, I guess I figured initially the two terms went hand in hand but w/e. I still think the Street Fighter method is a good means of circumventing licensing costs though.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The issue with a port is really just the amount of third party rights they need to get.

If Smash was first party only, I'd think a upgraded port would be incredibly likely, but many of the third party franchises were only able to be included due to DLC deals being easier to create. We know this happened for Dragon Quest for example. I'd imagine Final Fantasy, Minecraft and Kingdom Hearts also relied on DLC deals.

People think Smash getting third party franchises is easy. It isn't. Minecraft took several years. Not everyone is as easy to work with as SNK, Capcom and Namco.

 

[Gengar84]

While I’d obviously prefer Smash to just keep building on its roster rather than cut characters, at some point that will likely become unsustainable. If this does prove to be too much work to keep up, I think Smash could use something that sets future games apart so they don’t just feel like “Ultimate light”. One idea I’ve brought up here before is to follow Capcom’s model and have each entry focus on a single third party developer. Basically Nintendo’s own version of “Vs Capcom”. There are several developers they could go for like Capcom themselves, Square-Enix, and Microsoft among others. Going with this model should make negotiations easier since they only have to include one developer at a time while no longer having to adhere to the expectation of bringing them all back in the next game since they would shift focus. Radically shaking things up like this could even open up the door to non gaming crossovers with the likes of Marvel, DC, Shonen Jump, WB, Nickelodeon, Disney and more.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Wtf is this list

THANK U ALL FOR JOINING STREAM.

THAT MAGOLOR DLC WAS FIRE. AND IGNORE THIS LIST FOR SMASH pic.twitter.com/9pYe3zIW7H

— GamesCage - Hype Guy (@GamesCage_) March 5, 2023

Gotta love how they cut every Pokemon who isn't from gen 1. I don't mind if people don't like the newer gen Pokemon added to Smash but... bruh, at least keep Greninja so that there's some modern rep. Especially since most of us Pokemon fans are tired of how much gen 1 pandering we get in our own games.

 

[Gengar84]

Gotta love how they cut every Pokemon who isn't from gen 1. I don't mind if people don't like the newer gen Pokemon added to Smash but... bruh, at least keep Greninja so that there's some modern rep. Especially since most of us Pokemon fans are tired of how much gen 1 pandering we get in our own games.

I agree. Gen 1 probably has the highest percentage of my favorite Pokémon but I like plenty from every generation. I’m still going to keep hoping for Gengar since it’s been a favorite for the longest but there have been a few others since that I like just as much. Gengar’s definitely got the popularity edge over almost all of my other top favorites so that helps.

 

[ceterisparibus]

The issue with a port is really just the amount of third party rights they need to get.

If Smash was first party only, I'd think a upgraded port would be incredibly likely, but many of the third party franchises were only able to be included due to DLC deals being easier to create. We know this happened for Dragon Quest for example. I'd imagine Final Fantasy, Minecraft and Kingdom Hearts also relied on DLC deals.

People think Smash getting third party franchises is easy. It isn't. Minecraft took several years. Not everyone is as easy to work with as SNK, Capcom and Namco.

I imagine a lot of the hard work is getting that foot in - both the kaplan comment and KH info seemed to stem from finding the right people and being accommodating to the different stakeholders (the minecraft talks started since 2015 - easily post smash 4 and into ultimate where there were arguably bigger challenges to address like making the game).

There's nothing to imply the respective stakeholders requested for an obscene amount beyond the popularity of said franchises. And we even ended up getting 2 FF chars anyway.

 

[MasterCheef]

No. It's ALSO the issue. There are 2 great reasons that transformation characters suck.

Hero and Steve also suck because of their overcomplexity. But at they aren't costing us 2 more characters.

1 I am pretty certain Sakurai chose to do a three in 1 character so your first point is totally moot.

2 Secondly I believe it is much better to have 1 well implemented transformation character than two meh ones

3 the transformation other characters all with their group don't really have a purpose except Mythra & Pyra
if they did they would work fine.

4rth. You are assuming, the 2 other characters we would get would be of equal or greater value than the 1 transformation character.
This is a FALSE notion. Most likely we would get some joke character ; as in a Piranha Plant.

5TH It really depends on the type of transformation involved and the size of the character and the complexity of their special moves.
Having an established base to work from significantly reduces the extra amount of time needed.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I imagine a lot of the hard work is getting that foot in - both the kaplan comment and KH info seemed to stem from finding the right people and being accommodating to the different stakeholders (the minecraft talks started since 2015 - easily post smash 4 and into ultimate where there were arguably bigger challenges to address like making the game).

There's nothing to imply the respective stakeholders requested for an obscene amount beyond the popularity of said franchises. And we even ended up getting 2 FF chars anyway.

It's not just getting the foot in. Square-Enix alone pays their employees properly. That's why they charge so much for licensing. They actually care. ...To some degree. I'm not sure what the "act reasonable in the office" thing is like there.

However, it's not just SE that owns some content. Multiple companies do too, and they want an arm and a leg for it. Getting the foot in is not enough. Nintendo is going to pay a big truckload of cash for the relicensing. There is no shortcuts in these cases. Bandai-Namco, Capcom USA, Capcom LTD., and SNK are the only four companies total(in terms of licensing, Capcom does have two different studios), or maybe five if you include SEGA(but they didn't play ball as quickly, keep in mind. They almost didn't allow Sonic into Brawl either) who are vastly easy to work with. You have multiple other ones, even for cameos, who aren't as likely to be super cheap in pricing. Steve took forever to get. BK had no new games coming, so they naturally don't need to be charged as much... but we also didn't get any Mii costumes for them either. They at most got extra merchandise and the normal "this exists cause you can buy Rare Replay" along with an amiibo. Not saying much. Which is why they're reasonably cheap.

Capcom(both) is fairly friendly about it. SNK doesn't do a lot of new stuff, so they have a good reason to throw more at Nintendo for cheap. They also got some new ports in return. Bandai-Namco is working with Sakurai, so them being a bit easier to get stuff out of isn't that surprising.

 

[DarthEnderX]

One idea I’ve brought up here before is to follow Capcom’s model and have each entry focus on a single third party developer.

You mean that system that perpetually bites them in the ass every time they try and re-release one of those games?

1 I am pretty certain Sakurai chose to do a three in 1 character so your first point is totally moot.

Assumes Sakurai always makes the right choice. He doesn't.

2 Secondly I believe it is much better to have 1 well implemented transformation character than two meh ones

2 well implemented non-transformation characters is better than 1 transformation character.

4rth. You are assuming, the 2 other characters we would get would be of equal or greater value than the 1 transformation character.
This is a FALSE notion. Most likely we would get some joke character ; as in a Piranha Plant.

Really? Cause in a roster of 82 characters, only a couple of them are jokes. So, no, "most likely" you would not get some joke character. The odds are drastically in the favor of getting something cool.

And when the bar of cool that you have to clear is...Squirtle and Ivysaur, it's pretty much guaranteed.

 

[Wonder Smash]

How does Luigi fullfill the same role as Mario? Because his moves look kinda similar? They play nothing alike. Same with Dr Mario but to a lesser extent.

Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying Dr. Mario doesn't play anything like Mario?

 

[Gengar84]

You mean that system that perpetually bites them in the ass every time they try and re-release one of those games?

I don’t know the exact reason for why Capcom struggles to re-release those games but it makes logical sense to me that it would be a lot easier to negotiate with a single developer than many like Smash. Smash also doesn’t tend to rerelease their old games too often from what I’ve seen so that wouldn’t be much an issue.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dr. Mario and Mario play very very different now compared to what they used to. Dr. Mario also plays super differently from Luigi, but that might be kind of what the point was. It's hard to word it when you have 3 different characters(and both were based upon Mario. Albeit, he has Ness also based upon him, but still).

 

[Gengar84]

Whether you like transform characters or anything else about Smash is entirely subjective. I can respect other people’s opinions that don’t feel the same way as me. I personally happen to really enjoy transform characters and that’s just my personal opinion. If you feel otherwise, that’s fine too. I think we should try to avoid stating our opinions as objective fact with statements like “this is bad” or “Sakurai was wrong”.

 

[osby]

Assumes Sakurai always makes the right choice. He doesn't.

2 well implemented non-transformation characters is better than 1 transformation character.

And when the bar of cool that you have to clear is...Squirtle and Ivysaur, it's pretty much guaranteed.

You know just because your posts are worded abrasively doesn't mean that your opinion is superior to other people's, right?

 

[DarthEnderX]

You know just because your posts are worded abrasively doesn't mean that your opinion isn't superior to other people's, right?

Doesn't mean it isn't either.

There also isn't a single abrasive thing in any of what you just quoted.

I think we should try to avoid stating our opinions as objective fact with statements like “this is bad” or “Sakurai was wrong”.

And people should be able to recognize that an option is an opinion without having to notate every statement with "*this is an opinion".

"this is bad" is a qualitative statement, and is therefor, by default, an opinion. This should not have to be explained every time an opinion is uttered.

 

[Super Devon]

Hey there, just wanted to point something out in case if it wasn't already pointed out in this thread.
Hero's entire music library in Smash Ultimate is not owned by Square Enix, but rather the series composer himself.

Since that composer recently passed away, I think this significantly lowers his chance to return in the next game. Though one might argue that the rights to the music may return to Square Enix after his passing, I'm not sure if it's that simple considering how whack and controversial that person was.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: It could just be the Hero from DQ12 as well if that's possible, though I'm not sure if that game was being composed by the series composer as well.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Here's the roster I made of the base game of the next smash if it's a new game and not a port.

Echoes:
Daisy (echo of Peach)
Impa (echo of Sheik)
Lucina (echo of Marth)
Dark Pit (echo of Pit)
Mio (echo of Noah due to switching class mechanic between 2 weapons)
Octoling (echo of Inkling)

Dark Samus is the fighter that has been de-echoed due to Samus' moveset changed to match Dread like her slide.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Since that composer recently passed away, I think this significantly lowers his chance to return in the next game.

I don't. Because Sugiyama was notoriously difficult about his music rights. It's the reason all the songs in Smash are the inferior MIDI versions instead of the superior orchestrated versions(and the reason there were no new arrangements). With him gone, the chances of getting good music with less difficulty for DQ probably goes up, not down.

Unless he left the rights to someone even fussier than he was.

 

[Aaayei]

Hey there, just wanted to point something out in case if it wasn't already pointed out in this thread.
Hero's entire music library in Smash Ultimate is not owned by Square Enix, but rather the series composer himself.
View attachment 369091

Since that composer recently passed away, I think this significantly lowers his chance to return in the next game. Though one might argue that the rights to the music may return to Square Enix after his passing, I'm not sure if it's that simple considering how whack and controversial that person was.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: It could just be the Hero from DQ12 as well if that's possible, though I'm not sure if that game was being composed by the series composer as well.

Tbh I have doubts S*giyama's estate will be quite as picky as he was, that'd be quite a feat (he's supposedly the reason Hero got stuck to DLC.) If anything, I think this raises Hero's chances to return.

 

[Gengar84]

Doesn't mean it isn't either.

There also isn't a single abrasive thing in any of what you just quoted.

And people should be able to recognize that an option is an opinion without having to notate every statement with "*this is an opinion".

"this is bad" is a qualitative statement, and is therefor, by default, an opinion. This should not have to be explained every time an opinion is uttered.

There’s a difference between saying “this sucks” and “I don’t care for this and here’s why”. The former is dismissive and the latter makes it more clear that it’s just your personal take. You don’t have to literally say “this is my opinion” to get the point across. I feel it’s better to try to be a bit more accepting of other’s opinions. If you feel strongly about something, it’s fine to express yourself but in a way that doesn’t give off the impression that everyone else is wrong.

 

[Soy_Man]

Here's the roster I made of the base game of the next smash if it's a new game and not a port.View attachment 369092
Echoes:
Daisy (echo of Peach)
Impa (echo of Sheik)
Lucina (echo of Marth)
Dark Pit (echo of Pit)
Mio (echo of Noah due to switching class mechanic between 2 weapons)
Octoling (echo of Inkling)

Dark Samus is the fighter that has been de-echoed due to Samus' moveset changed to match Dread like her slide.

Is this like a prediction or a wishlist? Or both?

 

[Quillion]

I'm still wondering why the next Smash needs to choose between being a port or a ground-up new game.

Is there any evidence that using Ultimate's assets and making many additions plus a few alterations to the existing assets would be a middle ground that pleases no one?

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Is this like a prediction or a wishlist? Or both?

A predicition

 

[NintenZ]

I was starting to think

Do you guys think the next system might be able to handle something like Noah and Mio at the same time? Assuming the system specification leaks are true and it runs on 9th generation hardware that is.

 

[fogbadge]

I was starting to think

Do you guys think the next system might be able to handle something like Noah and Mio at the same time? Assuming the system specification leaks are true and it runs on 9th generation hardware that is.

call me paranoid but I doubt it

 

[PeridotGX]

I was starting to think

Do you guys think the next system might be able to handle something like Noah and Mio at the same time? Assuming the system specification leaks are true and it runs on 9th generation hardware that is.

I'm assuming that the Switch 2 will be roughly equivalent to the PS4, maybe closer to it's Pro edition if we're lucky. That should be enough to remove most moveset bottlenecks, as well as a few other issues (Stage Morph and Stage Builder can't interact, and I have to imagine that's not a creative choice)

 

[Idon]

I was starting to think

Do you guys think the next system might be able to handle something like Noah and Mio at the same time? Assuming the system specification leaks are true and it runs on 9th generation hardware that is.

It could but they won't implement a moveset like that. Ice Climbers and Rosaluma is as complex as you can get with a double fighter due to how the separate parts are relatively simple. Both Noah and Mio are extremely unique in their abilities so the scope is much higher. If Mio is included in the moveset in any way, I highly suspect it will be as a simple swap ala Pyra/Mythra.

 

[Soy_Man]

I was starting to think

Do you guys think the next system might be able to handle something like Noah and Mio at the same time? Assuming the system specification leaks are true and it runs on 9th generation hardware that is.

Are you talking about xenoblade 3 or smash?

 

[Mamboo07]

Are you talking about xenoblade 3 or smash?

He's talking about Smash.

 

[CannonStreak]

I just had an idea; you know the music each character has when they win a fight in multiplayer? Well, for things like Race to the Finish, Break the Targets or Board the Platforms (if that ever returns), if a character fails at one of those, well, for Mario, this plays...

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

For Sonic...

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

And so on and so forth.

What do you think of this idea?

 

[Soy_Man]

I just had an idea; you know the music each character has when they win a fight in multiplayer? Well, for things like Race to the Finish, Break the Targets or Board the Platforms (if that ever returns), if a character fails at one of those, well, for Mario, this plays...

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

For Sonic...

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

And so on and so forth.

What do you think of this idea?

Failing in race to the finish or break the targets doesn't lead to a "game over", so this is pretty forced for a reference.

 

[CannonStreak]

Failing in race to the finish or break the targets doesn't lead to a "game over", so this is pretty forced for a reference.

Yeah, I know, but I just thought that this would be a nice touch, giving each character something unique in terms of music and what not.

 

[Perkilator]

Failing in race to the finish or break the targets doesn't lead to a "game over", so this is pretty forced for a reference.

Well, to be a little fair, DKC does have a bonus fail theme.

 

[fogbadge]

I just had an idea; you know the music each character has when they win a fight in multiplayer? Well, for things like Race to the Finish, Break the Targets or Board the Platforms (if that ever returns), if a character fails at one of those, well, for Mario, this plays...

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

For Sonic...

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

And so on and so forth.

What do you think of this idea?

hmm i'm not as against the idea as i would have thought i'd have been