Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Laniv]

Here's a fun game to try. Let's focus on the echoes we currently have. Of them, Ken, Lucina and Chrom are usually cited to be good echoes because their changes impact gameplay significantly.

Dark Pit, Daisy, Richter and Dark Samus are usually found to be too similar. Let's change them up. However...

These are echoes. They are meant to be last minute characters to pad out the roster, so for the sake of the game, you can only make three changes to their current state. You can change an attribute or a move, but you're only allowed to make three changes. If an attribute changes more than one move, that's allowed, but keep them from getting too wild.

And yeah, Darth, you can't just give them all unique movesets. (Watch him do it anyways.) That ignores the whole point of last minute characters. Limit it to three changes, either redesigning a move or giving them an easy to program attribute.

Here's my changes.

Dark Pit

• Dark Pit's shield can't be held out as long, but makes a small damaging pulse similar to Palutena's old reflect in Smash 4.
• Dark Pit's up tilt is now a kill move.
• Dark Pit's down tilt now hits twice but loses its combo opportunities.

Daisy

• Give her back the different turnips she used to have.
• Her Foward Smash now includes a possible baseball bat to replace the frying pan. It has unique damage, knockback and trajectory.
• Her Toad now always attacks, but does a smaller amount of set damage.

Richter

• Richter doesn't use the chain upgrade with the spiked ball at the end. He uses Vampire Killer's more traditional leather whip. This means he has no sweet spot for his whip moves like Simon does.
• Richter's holy water now does three small hits that end with a big hit that sends opponents flying. It's less useful for trapping and securing kills.
• Richter's uppercut goes much higher but only does one hit that's strong at the beginning.

Dark Samus

• Dark Samus has a unique mechanic where moves that use Phazon (Charge Beam, Down Tilt, Forward Air, etc) do poison damage to the opponent for three seconds. These moves do less base damage to compensate.
• Dark Samus missiles can't become super, but they are much better at homing in on opponents.
• Dark Samus's Morph Ball Bomb is now a multihit move when it explodes. It does roughly the same damage.

Well, those are my ideas. What would you do?

When you say three changes, do you mean three maximum? If so...

Dark Pit:

1. Power of Flight creates a decently-sized windbox at the start of the move, but travels a shorter distance.
2. F-throw is now that kick he did that one time

Daisy:
1. Loses her float, in exchange for another jump.
2. Ground and air speed are improved, falling faster to compensate.
3. Side special deals less damage, but puts a flower on the opponent's head.


Richter:
Only one change: HYDRO STORM is his new Final Smash like it should've been. A torrent of rain falls on the stage, dealing damage to all opponents and creating a current of water to drag fighters away (think the rain on Distant Planet)

Dark Samus:
1. Down smash is the Phazon tentacle attack she did in Smash 4
2. All Phazon-based attacks (anything that uses the arm cannon) now has a chance of dealing poison damage, the chance going higher the higher the opponent's damage is.

 

[DarthEnderX]

There’s a difference between saying “this sucks” and “I don’t care for this and here’s why”. The former is dismissive and the latter makes it more clear that it’s just your personal take.

The former IS dismissive, but it is no less an obvious personal take.

Someone shouldn't have to write a dissertation just to express their opinion.

2 i would love to know what reason you have to believe in how skipping a transformation character would result in 2 more good characters,
2.01 Heavy emphasis on good

Building a unique xform like Squirtle, Ivysaur, Shiek or Zero Suit uses up just as much development resources as making an entirely new character. Therefore, not having those xforms means dev resources to make other characters.

As for why they'd be good, that's based on their track record, as I already said. I think MOST characters in Smash are good. Therefore, the odds are that the characters you get instead of the xforms will be good.

4 My standard for ( transformation characters ) in Smash is Pythra.

But that's NOT the standard. Pyra/Mythra are more like Echoes of each other. Every other xform is more like a completely unique character.

5 i personally feel at least about 20+ of the characters in SSBU are ( jokes / very boring ) in every way.

Disagree.

6 your definition of a good character also seems to be faulty. please elaborate ..

No.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

my what if idea is:
What if Nintendo rejected Dragon King and HAL went with the RC robot game?

That's not exactly what i meant, i just meant expanding my idea for a Smash newcomer that i would personally like to see but know will never happen so i called it a what if.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm still wondering why the next Smash needs to choose between being a port or a ground-up new game.

Is there any evidence that using Ultimate's assets and making many additions plus a few alterations to the existing assets would be a middle ground that pleases no one?

It doesn't. What you're describing is what MK8D is. And that's the most popular game on the Switch.

And yeah, Darth, you can't just give them all unique movesets.

Giving them unique movesets would make them not echoes anymore.

Honestly repurposing some of the custom moves of Peach, Samus, & Pit/Dark Pit for Daisy, Dark Samus, & Dark Pit in Ultimate wouldn't have been the worst idea.

100% this.

Assuming 12 DLC characters again... Can you name 12 characters you'd pay for?

I can name 30.

1. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
2. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
3. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
4. Kunio/Riki [River City]
5. SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug]
6. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]
7. Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
8. Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
9. Nightmare [Soulcalibur]
10. Kazuma Kiryu [Yakuza]
11. Nakoruru [Samurai Shodown]
12. Dante [Devil May Cry]
13. Phoenix Wright [Ace Attorney]
14. Viewtiful Joe [Viewtiful Joe]
15. Amaterasu [Okami]
16. Mike Haggar [Final Fight]
17. Strider Hiryu [Strider]
18. Goemon/Ebisumaru [Legend of the Mystical Ninja]
19. Crono [Chrono Trigger]
20. Nathan Spencer [Bionic Commando]
21. Rash/Zitz [Battletoads]
22. Bomberman [Bomberman]
23. Estelle Bright [Legend of Heroes]
24. Shantae [Shantae]
25. Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
26. King Hippo [Punch-Out]
27. Firebrand [Gargoyle’s Quest]
28. Zero [Mega Man X]
29. Alucard [Castlevania]
30. Raiden [Metal Gear]

 

[Dan Quixote]

Richter:
Only one change: HYDRO STORM is his new Final Smash like it should've been. A torrent of rain falls on the stage, dealing damage to all opponents and creating a current of water to drag fighters away (think the rain on Distant Planet)

The fact that so many echoes couldn't even get unique Final Smashes is so sad

 

[DarthEnderX]

The fact that so many echoes couldn't even get unique Final Smashes is so sad

To be fair, the FS is probably the single most resource-intensive asset of a character.

Sorta undermines the point of making a cheap copy.

 

[Soy_Man]

Building a unique xform like Squirtle, Ivysaur, Shiek or Zero Suit uses up just as much development resources as making an entirely new character.

The way you worded this is confusing.

Therefore, not having those xforms means dev resources to make other characters.

The assets and movesets for all three pokemon already exist and are perfectly good, and splitting them into three separate characters is obviously going to take more time and effort than just keeping PT as is. So your point about dev resources is completely moot.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The assets and movesets for all three pokemon already exist and are perfectly good, and splitting them into three separate characters is obviously going to take more time and effort than just keeping PT as is. So your point about dev resources is completely moot.

True. That's more an argument about why new ones suck.

For preexisting ones, the argument defaults back to the skill ceiling point.

 

[Soy_Man]

True. That's more an argument about why new ones suck.

For preexisting ones, the argument defaults back to the skill ceiling point.

Why is a character having a high skill ceiling a bad thing?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Since nobody's objected i guess i'll just share my color pallete ideas, alternate colors arent really a thing discussed very often for a Smash character concept, i get that a lot of them are pretty mid but when the alt color references something specific i really like it.

I think it'd be cool if "Cybuster" got three alt skins who's colors were based on the robots featured in the very first SRW game who have stuck around for the entire mainline series:

A predominantly white alt based on the original Gundam. A Black alt with red highlights based on Mazinger Z and a Red alt based on Getter.
Probably not something Smash would do considering these three Robots are from anime rather than games but i think it'd be cool.

Yeah you can tell this franchise became a favorite of mine after i played the games we've gotten in English so far that i think it'd be cool to have in smash despite it being relatively unknown in North America.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I just want a Nav-Com color for ROB.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I was starting to think

Do you guys think the next system might be able to handle something like Noah and Mio at the same time? Assuming the system specification leaks are true and it runs on 9th generation hardware that is.

Now that I think about it, new characters that can be used to show off the greater technical capabilities of the new hardware is certainly possible. Noah/Mio which you mentioned is a good candidate for that and I can also see Officer Howard from Astral Chain being able to actively switch between using all five legions as another demonstration for that too

 

[Idon]

Now that I think about it, new characters that can be used to show off the greater technical capabilities of the new hardware is certainly possible. Noah/Mio which you mentioned is a good candidate for that and I can also see Officer Howard from Astral Chain being able to actively switch between using all five legions as another demonstration for that too

Just because they can doesn't mean they should.

Unless those Legions are extremely basic in their functionality to the point they're just reskinned special moves (which goes against the appeal of using different Legions), that's an extremely large amount of work and complexity put into a single character which also goes against the Smash motto of characters being easy to pick up and grasp.

It's not like they couldn't make Pokemon Trainer cycle through a full team of 6 Pokemon, it's that one, that'd be way too much work and two it gets in the way of the simplicity and effectiveness of that moveset design.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Ultimate sold more than twice the next closest with 4, (and that's having to combine 3DS and WiiU, separately Brawl is next in sales.) That's a huge difference and it's because of DLC imho. So whatever base game we get in the future, whatever engine or system it's on, there will be DLC and that's where the big money is made (and spent).

Assuming 12 DLC characters again... Can you name 12 characters you'd pay for?

1. Dr. Eggman
2. Dr. Eggman
3. Dr. Eggman
4. Dr. Eggman
5. Dr. Eggman
6. Dr. Eggman
7. Dr. Eggman
8. Dr. Eggman
9. Dr. Eggman
10. Dr. Eggman
11. Dr. Eggman
12. Dr. Eggman

 

[Lenidem]

My take is that DLC almost doubling the cost to get the full game is ridiculous and I only buy packs for characters I really like. For Ultimate that was only three out of the twelve.

I bought the only one who stroke a cord to me: Banjo & Kazooie, one of my most wanted since forever.

 

[Geno Boost]

was thinking how Minesweeper can be a clone of probably its easier to have than Ms. Pac-man since Minesweeper is owned by Microsoft while Namco have beef with AtGames
Side Smash: can be like side smash but uses Bombs instead of ghost and it explodes

Up Smash: can be like up smash but uses Flower Garden instead of ghost and its multi hit as the flower would spin

Down Smash: can down smash but uses Bombs instead of ghost in the both sides and it explodes

Neutral Special: can be like neutral special with items replaced by numbers from 1 to 8 each has different property as you throw them

Side Special: Kick a barrel that would roll on the platform and would explode if it hits

Up Special: can be like up special but uses Ladybug to fly

Down Special: can be like down special it would transform into a block and would consist of these faces in the Block randomly

Dash Attack: sweep the floor while running

Up Tilt: can be like up tilt but uses Flag pole instead
Down Tilt: can be like
Neutral Air: can be like
Grab: would be regular grab no Galaga lol
Down Throw: pins someone to the ground with the flag pole
Final Smash: Rides Shark Ship and it would hit horizontally quickly or maybe it can be cinematic make it like final smash

other attacks can remain same as
so what do you think?

 

[Stratos]

In future games of the Super Smash Bros. series they should give R.O.B. a stage based on Gyromite.

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm with swamp. I prepaid for both passes having no clue who were in it because I want the full roster. The fact Kazuya was part of it was icing on the cake.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm with swamp. I prepaid for both passes having no clue who were in it because I want the full roster. The fact Kazuya was part of it was icing on the cake.

I didn’t buy pass 2 until Sephiroth was announced but I bought the whole pass once he was. I wasn’t personally too interested in the pass before that point and the end of pass one was kind of deflating to me. Now, I’m glad I bought everything. If nothing else, more characters means more modding potential.

 

[MasterCheef]

Building a unique xform like Squirtle, Ivysaur, Shiek or Zero Suit uses up just as much development resources as making an entirely new character. Therefore, not having those xforms means dev resources to make other characters.

So Pokemon Trainer is entirely different from other transformations because they have different body forms.
Also i don't care for Pokemon Trainer nor for Zero Suit Samus

But that's NOT the standard. Pyra/Mythra are more like Echoes of each other. Every other xform is more like a completely unique character.

that is what makes it exciting though. is you can have two different fighting styles to choose from rather than just 1

so my question is would you be ok with echo transformations ?

To be fair, the FS is probably the single most resource-intensive asset of a character.

Sorta undermines the point of making a cheap copy.

I agree i hate final smashes

 

[Quillion]

They will reuse Ultimate's assets to the extent that they are able and to the extent that it makes sense for their vision of the game. They will use an engine that they think best balances reuse of assets along with whatever other considerations they may have. It's not a matter of their intelligence, which I don't think should be in question, nor is it likely to be an issue of zero compatibility between engine and assets.
But there is a lot of uncertainty with the new hardware, and one of the few fairly certain things is that there will be a big performance upgrade over the Switch. Smash 64 would have looked awful on the GCN; Melee would have looked awful on the Wii; Brawl would have looked awful on the Wii U. Very likely Ult will at best lose quite a bit of luster on the next console.

I just don't see how you can keep all of Ult's content and still add enough new stuff unless you are in the straight port situation. And regardless of what happens for the very next installment, a ground-up game will have to come eventually; delaying it is not going to make it any easier for the people who are afraid of losing even their least favorite character or stage on the roster. The difficulty of doing EiH in the first place and the public statements they've made regarding that difficulty give them the perfect excuse to not do it again (really more a sensible reasoning than an excuse).

I don't know all the exact details of what you have in mind when you say a "middle road" between a port and a brand new game, but like I said before it will likely entail more effort than it's worth to both maintain Ult's content base and cook up the USPs that typically accompany a brand new game.

I'll concede that they may have to cut some of the 3rd party characters and maybe a few of the 1st party hard flame-outs in the process. But polishing up existing models for a new generation would save a lot of time and resources anyway.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Just because they can doesn't mean they should.

Unless those Legions are extremely basic in their functionality to the point they're just reskinned special moves (which goes against the appeal of using different Legions), that's an extremely large amount of work and complexity put into a single character which also goes against the Smash motto of characters being easy to pick up and grasp.

It's not like they couldn't make Pokemon Trainer cycle through a full team of 6 Pokemon, it's that one, that'd be way too much work and two it gets in the way of the simplicity and effectiveness of that moveset design.

My guess is that Howard would only use one legion for a limited time, which would still showcase the next gen power (because if 8 player Smash stays it would mean 8 Howard + 8 legion), without making the moveset too overly complicated. I think Howard and the sword legion alone is more than enough to make a complete moveset.

I was starting to think

Do you guys think the next system might be able to handle something like Noah and Mio at the same time? Assuming the system specification leaks are true and it runs on 9th generation hardware that is.

I'm not really sure why Noah and Mio should be together at all. Well sure they work together in the game, but it's not a mechanic specific to Xenoblade 3, in the same way that we don't have Shulk and Reyn as a duo fighter. I feel like it would make way more sense to have both separately, but to be fair I doubt they're going to give development ressources for 2 Xenoblade characters so I think we're just going to have one of them (and this have 0% chance of happening but if we do have 2 Xenoblade newcomers it should be either Noah or Mio + Elma)

 

[Gengar84]

My guess is that Howard would only use one legion for a limited time, which would still showcase the next gen power (because if 8 player Smash stays it would mean 8 Howard + 8 legion), without making the moveset too overly complicated. I think Howard and the sword legion alone is more than enough to make a complete moveset.




I'm not really sure why Noah and Mio should be together at all. Well sure they work together in the game, but it's not a mechanic specific to Xenoblade 3, in the same way that we don't have Shulk and Reyn as a duo fighter. I feel like it would make way more sense to have both separately, but to be fair I doubt they're going to give development ressources for 2 Xenoblade characters so I think we're just going to have one of them (and this have 0% chance of happening but if we do have 2 Xenoblade newcomers it should be either Noah or Mio + Elma)

Teamwork is more heavily emphasized in Xenoblade 3 than the first game due to the Ouroboros fusion system. That’s when two characters fuse together into a futuristic looking mech that they both control. They can sense each other’s thoughts in that form as well. Shulk and Reyn never had anything like that. The blade system in XBC2 was pretty heavily Team based as well though only the driver was ever playable until Torna.

 

[DarthEnderX]

so my question is would you be ok with echo transformations ?

It'd still prefer they were a separate fighter and their echo. But it bothers me less than a xform with a full moveset, because at least it's not taking a dev slot from another character.

I'm with swamp. I prepaid for both passes having no clue who were in it because I want the full roster. The fact Kazuya was part of it was icing on the cake.

All I needed to hear was that every character in the pass was a completely new character/stage/music and that's all it took for me to preorder.

 

[Gengar84]

It'd still prefer they were a separate fighter and their echo. But it bothers me less than a xform with a full moveset, because at least it's not taking a dev slot from another character.

All I needed to hear was that every character in the pass was a completely new character/stage/music and that's all it took for me to preorder.

I don’t think it really takes much more dev time to add a transformation character than it does for two separate characters. Noah and Mio as a team seem like they’d take roughly the same amount of resources than the two individually. Maybe even less since they would share a Final Smash and likely wouldn’t have a down special. The same is true for any team of characters. You could argue that the second character doesn’t deserve to get in on their own but that’s another subjective argument and I usually end up liking the partner character more than the lead in most games.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Teamwork is more heavily emphasized in Xenoblade 3 than the first game due to the Ouroboros fusion system. That’s when two characters fuse together into a futuristic looking mech that they both control. They can sense each other’s thoughts in that form as well. Shulk and Reyn never had anything like that. The blade system in XBC2 was pretty heavily Team based as well though only the driver was ever playable until Torna.

Yeah but I feel like the Ouroboros would work better as a Final smash instead of a regular special move.

 

[SPEN18]

I'll concede that they may have to cut some of the 3rd party characters and maybe a few of the 1st party hard flame-outs in the process. But polishing up existing models for a new generation would save a lot of time and resources anyway.

To be clear, even in a fairly extreme cuts scenario there would still be dozens of vets returning. And you would use what you can from those characters' previous assets. I just think that there would still be a lot of work left to do after that, to the point that the benefits of focusing on newcomers would outweigh the costs.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don’t think it really takes much more dev time to add a transformation character than it does for two separate characters.

That's what I said.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah the Ouroboros is perfect for a FS and that would actually well-reflect how it is in the game, a short-term massive powerup.

 

[Gengar84]

That's what I said.

Then what’s the issue with transform characters? It doesn’t seem like it would take any more dev time to add them as a team as it would to add them separately. Adding them as a team opens the possibility of adding a few double team attacks or have the two movesets play off each other in a way that they couldn’t separately. You’re still getting two characters with a transform duo, you just don’t choose them separately. Changing the transform to a taunt or shield special means they could still be full characters. You could always just play one half if you don’t care about the other.

Characters like Steve and the fighting game reps take more to master than any of the transform duos in my opinion so I don’t see how the skill ceiling is too big an issue either. Keeping the members simple should go a long way in lowering the skill ceiling. With each half being relatively straight forward, the duo shouldn’t take any more work to master than any of the more complex individual fighters. Simpler movesets should also reduce dev time because each character wouldn’t need to have a ton of moves like Kazuya.

 

[Sucumbio]

Maybe they'll take the next game in a new direction with tag mechanics and then everyone will be a transform character.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Then what’s the issue with transform characters? It doesn’t seem like it would take any more dev time to add them as a team as it would to add them separately.

Because given the choice between getting 3 Pokemon characters(2 of which are pretty lame), or 1 Pokemon character and 2 characters from other series, the latter is infinitely better.

Likewise, getting Zelda and a character from another franchise is better than getting Zelda and Zelda in disguise.

 

[Gengar84]

Maybe they'll take the next game in a new direction with tag mechanics and then everyone will be a transform character.

That would be cool. My only real issue with that is that you’d lose out on some potential double team moves specific to the pair. We don’t really have anything like that yet but I think it’s one potential upside of set duos. That and we’d be less likely to get anyone other than the lead protagonist. I feel like more people would have complained if we got Pyra and Mythra as two separate characters than they did as a duo.

Because given the choice between getting 3 Pokemon characters(2 of which are pretty lame), or 1 Pokemon character and 2 characters from other series, the latter is infinitely better.

Likewise, getting Zelda and a character from another franchise is better than getting Zeldaand Zelda in disguise.

Sheik is one of my favorite Zelda and Smash characters but I can at least understand the sentiment. I’d rather have any other Zelda or Mario character than three Links and Mario in disguise. There’s also ZSS who later became her own separate character but other Metroid reps could have been more interesting. I happen to like Ivysaur and have no problems with Squirtle but I’d have rather had Venusaur and Blastoise. It seems like your issue might be more about the specific characters chosen than the idea of a transformation itself.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Am i crazy for not wanting an ultimate port?

I feeling the Smash Community are missing the ball when it comes to the idea of the next installment.

The next game doesn't need to "Top Ultimate", it just needs to stand on it's own well enough to warrant its existence.

Many gaming franchises don't follow a "bigger is better" approach.

 

[Laniv]

Am i crazy for not wanting an ultimate port?

I feeling the Smash Community are missing the ball when it comes to the idea of the next installment.

The next game doesn't need to "Top Ultimate", it just needs to stand on it's own well enough to warrant its existence.

Many gaming franchises don't follow a "bigger is better" approach.

No, I'd say you're one of the saner Smash fans. It was a good game, but I've just about had my fill of Ultimate

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Ultimate sold more than twice the next closest with 4, (and that's having to combine 3DS and WiiU, separately Brawl is next in sales.) That's a huge difference and it's because of DLC imho. So whatever base game we get in the future, whatever engine or system it's on, there will be DLC and that's where the big money is made (and spent).

Assuming 12 DLC characters again... Can you name 12 characters you'd pay for?

If it's it's a new game
Old fighters:
Mewtwo
Ryu (Ken returning as an echo)
Bayonetta
Banjo Kazooie
New:
Doomslayer
Agumon
Professor Layton
Dr. Eggman
Reimu
Scorpion (Sub Zero as an echo fighter)

If it's a port of Ultimate:
Raven Beak
a Pokemon from gen 8/9
Andy
Noah (Mio as an echo for switching between Swordfighter and Zephyr class weapons)
Crash
Rayman
Professor Layton
Scorpion (Sub Zero as an echo fighter)
Dr. Eggman
Reimu

 

[Gengar84]

Am i crazy for not wanting an ultimate port?

I feeling the Smash Community are missing the ball when it comes to the idea of the next installment.

The next game doesn't need to "Top Ultimate", it just needs to stand on it's own well enough to warrant its existence.

Many gaming franchises don't follow a "bigger is better" approach.

The challenge is making it not feel like just a worse Ultimate with a drastically reduced roster. A good single player would help but I feel like I’d go right back to playing Ultimate once I beat it. Bringing back any veterans as DLC would also lose a ton of hype coming off Ultimate where we got all of them in the base game.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah the Ouroboros is perfect for a FS and that would actually well-reflect how it is in the game, a short-term massive powerup.

oh well we can't have that then

 

[Nabbitfan730]

No, I'd say you're one of the saner Smash fans. It was a good game, but I've just about had my fill of Ultimate

I understand the sentiment. I mean it did things considered the impossible and it is my favorite in the series but there is a major turn off to the idea of getting the same game again over and over again like how GTA5 or Skyrim became.

Especially if the next system is backwards compatible. It would be redundant

Not saying the next game has to be drastically different but still new, different and most important GOOD enough to stand out.

The challenge is making it not feel like just a worse Ultimate with a drastically reduced roster. A good single player would help but I feel like I’d go right back to playing Ultimate once I beat it. Bringing back any veterans as DLC would also lose a ton of hype coming off Ultimate where we got all of them in the base game.

In terms of veterans, i said the best option is take the same approach to how Ultimate was in E3 2018 where all chosen veterans are all revealed in one sizzling reveal trailer and any character past that point are all new characters to the smash series entirely.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It seems like your issue might be more about the specific characters chosen than the idea of a transformation itself.

No. I'd have a problem with pretty much any game getting multiple characters at the same time.

If Pyra and Mythra weren't clones of each other, I'd be super pissed about them both being in Smash, because XB2 doesn't deserve to be taking up 2 character slots. And I'd feel the same way if XB3 got 2 characters in the next game.