Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Opossum]

I really don't get why people think that Waluigi "only being in spinoffs" is a bad thing, especially when those spinoffs include Mario Kart, a franchise that almost always outsells Super Mario platformers on every console they both appear on.

It's nowhere near the same as asking for, say, Linkle for the next Zelda character or Tsubasa for the next Fire Emblem character. Waluigi is an incredibly prominent character, more so than like 85% of the current non-Mario Smash roster...and most of the remaining fifteen percent just constitutes the Pokémon.

 

[fogbadge]

Reading that over, I think I may have overused the word “really” lol.

Speaking of side characters, I’d love to see Nia from Xenoblade as its next rep in Smash. She may not be the main character but she does at least seem pretty important to the lore. She’s also my favorite character in the series.

Xenoblade 3 Spoilers

Spoiler

She was one of the two queens along with Melia in XBC3 and can later be recruited as a hero assist character in post game. That makes Nia and Melia the only two characters to play a prominent role in the main story of two Xenoblade games, which is at least something.

would have been way better than what we got

 

[Gengar84]

Speaking of currently relevant side characters, what does anyone think of Octopath Traveller? Since there isn’t really one main protagonist in those games, picking just one would essentially feel the same as picking a side character from another JRPG. I’m personally a fan of H’aanit from the first game and I think her hunting and beast tamer skills could be a ton of fun and offer Smash something it hasn’t really seen yet.

 

[Dan Quixote]

With Kuru Kuru Kururin just now FINALLY being released in NA? How can Helirin NOT return?

Honestly it's not even about the representation for me when it comes to Kuru Kuru Kururin. Helirin was just one of the most fun and unique assists. back in SSBB and I'd love to see that mechanic return. It had a super simple but effective gimmick.

 

[Curious Villager]

Honestly it's not even about the representation for me when it comes to Kuru Kuru Kururin. Helirin was just one of the most fun and unique assists. back in SSBB and I'd love to see that mechanic return. It had a super simple but effective gimmick.

I remember people hating the Assist Trophy but I personally never minded it.

Its basically like the alolan Exeggutor Pokeball pokemon, but spinning around a bit instead of being a stationary wall.

I'm happy the Nintendo Switch online rerelease exposed the game to more people. Its a fun little alternative to Super Monkey Ball and those kind of games.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Speaking of currently relevant side characters, what does anyone think of Octopath Traveller? Since there isn’t really one main protagonist in those games, picking just one would essentially feel the same as picking a side character from another JRPG. I’m personally a fan of H’aanit from the first game and I think her hunting and beast tamer skills could be a ton of fun and offer Smash something it hasn’t really seen yet.

View attachment 368075

We'd have to get more Octopath traveler games for Square to put them in smash.

They only let their characters show up as advertisements lol

 

[NintenZ]

The only thing about Waluigi is I can’t really call him ‘important’ since he’s never had a major role in a game unless you count… Dance Dance Revolution Mario Mix, he is recurring through just like Daisy was so it probably doesn’t even matter if he’s important or not just that usually smash bros has main character bias (unless you’re a Pokémon or Min-Min where the argument is everyone is the main character but I digress.)

 

[MrMcNuts]

I'm 100% bias when saying this since I'm the Rayman guy but I feel like rabbids have that side character energy. Like yeah they're their own thing now and pushed way more but when ya look at it, their best selling stuff had Rayman or Mario attached. The only standalone rabbids game to cross a million sales was Rabbids Go Home and even then it only hit about 1 mil. I think the TV show did well with viewership? But ya never hear it being praised hardcore or compared to other great cartoons.

However I don't think side character means someone has no place in smash (I mean look at Daisy). Waluigi has remained one of the most requested for years depsite his status, I feel that's a testament to how much people like him. There's definitely a place for some side characters showing up...... No rabbids though pls

Edit: once Rayman is in I'm all for Rabbid Mario however. A true MVP

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Edit: once Rayman is in I'm all for Rabbid Mario however. A true MVP

It'll be Rabbid Peach and you'll love it.

 

[MrMcNuts]

It'll be Rabbid Peach and you'll love it.

I'm still devastated that she's one of the characters we gotta use in the dlc campaign, I spent the whole game without using her on purpose lmao. At least we get the best rabbid to balance it out?

 

[Gengar84]

Since we’re on the topic of side characters, I might as well share my thoughts on my personal most wanted character again in case there’s anyone here that hasn’t seen this (Battletoads are actually my brother’s most wanted but I’d still be really hyped for them too).

Model by Tarcísio Rezende


Who is Magus? (Chrono Trigger spoilers)

Magus is the lord of the Mystics of the Middle Ages. Depicted as an antagonist for a large part of the game, Magus is eventually revealed to be the older version of Janus, the young prince of Zeal in 12,000 BC. After an encounter with Lavos as a child, he had been sent through a time gate to the Middle Ages, where he was adopted by Ozzie of the Mystics and became their leader. After the fall of Zeal, the player can choose to fight Magus or spare him, allowing him to reluctantly join the party. As the second fight is to the death, Magus will be permanently gone after this fight plays out.

Why should Chrono Trigger get a character?

Chrono Trigger is a classic and beloved JRPG from the SNES era. Even though it has not had a game since the PS1, many people look back on it fondly to this day. Despite Chrono Trigger's great fan reception and legacy, it does have competition within its own company from huge series not yet represented like Kingdom Hearts, Tomb Raider, and NieR. Even though I'm also a big fan of Kingdom Hearts, Chrono Trigger will always have a special place in my heart and is one of my favorite games of all time.

Why Magus specifically over Crono?

This one is mostly personal preference. Magus is one of my all time favorite video game characters and I've never been all that interested in silent protagonists like Crono. Magus also has a ton to offer gameplay wise. He would be the only scythe wielder on the roster and even the only character with a dedicated polearm weapon. He also has a huge variety of skills and magic to utilize. I have come around to Crono as well since I think the partner mechanic could be really fun in Smash if properly implemented.

How would Magus play?

Magus fights using a scythe as well as a combination of all magic types, including his own exclusive "Shadow" magic. Contrary to the other characters, he does not learn any dual techs, and accessories must be found to unlock several triple techs. Because of this, Magus would lean more towards being more of a solo character than the protagonist, Crono, who would focus much more heavily on the partner mechanic of Chrono Trigger. Even though he would primarily fight on his own, I do think he would use one of his triple techs, Eternal Darkness or Omega Flare. As for the rest of his moveset, here is a quick rundown on the solo techs Magus can use:

These are Magus' skills in Chrono Trigger:

Lightning II - Magus attacks all enemies with a massive lightning storm
Ice II - Magus attacks all enemies with giant chunks of ice
Fire II - Magus attacks all enemies with a blazing inferno
Dark Bomb - Attacks enemies in range of a circle. Something like a hugely scaled down StarFox bomb item would work well here
Barrier - Boosts all allies' magic defense
Dark Mist - Attacks all enemies with a dark mist. This one could be similar to one of Palutena's custom moves from Smash 4.
Black Hole - Chance to instant kill enemies within a circle
Dark Matter - Magus' ultimate solo tech. This one deals massive shadow elemental damage to all enemies.

Here is a complete moveset for Magus:

Spoiler

Gimmicks and other Traits

Magus floats for his running animation similar to Sephiroth and teleports for his dodge roll. Magus has a similar tipper mechanic to Marth where most of the damage from his scythe attacks is caused by the tip rather than the handle. Magus also has a float jump similar to Princess Peach, but he gradually descends rather than floats at the same altitude. Most of Magus’ attributes are very similar to Sephiroth.

Weak attacks

Jab: Magus holds his hand forward and zaps the opponent with two small shocks followed by a final more powerful blast.

Forward Tilt: Magus swings his scythe horizontally and catches any opponent it connects with. He then scrapes his scythe across the ground, dragging the opponent before sending them flying in the opposite direction.

Up Tilt: Magus pokes his scythe upward and hits the opponent with the spike on the top

Down Tilt: Magus performs a low sweep across the ground with his scythe.

Smash Attacks

Up Smash – Geyser – Magus summons a pillar of light at roughly the height of Palutena’s up smash and unleashes several spirits that fly upwards and damage enemies. This attack doesn’t have much knockback but it has very good range.

Down Smash: Magus slams the handle of his scythe into the ground.

Forward Smash: Magus throws his scythe forwards, causing it to spin around and return to him, similar to Pyra’s forward special.

Specials

Neutral Special – Fire/Lighting/Ice – Magus’ neutral special rotates on a cycle between three different attacks.

• For his fire special, Magus creates a pillar of flame a short distance in front of him at about one and a half times his height that can trap opponents and causes steady residual damage similar to Ness’ PK Fire.
• Magus’ Lightning special summons a bolt of electricity horizontally from his hand that travels a long distance across the stage. This causes light damage but is capable of stunning opponents at high percentages.
• Finally Magus’ Ice special summons a giant chunk of ice that travels diagonally downwards and crashes into the ground at a medium distance from him. This attack causes a lot of damage and can freeze opponents at high percentages.

Up Special - Black Hole – Magus creates a small black hole, and teleports away at a similar distance to Zelda’s teleport, creating an exit point where he emerges. This would then function like the Stage Builder warp points. The black hole would remain on the battlefield for a short time or until Magus uses another up special.

Down Special – Dark Mist – Magus unleashes a wave of dark mist that covers a wide horizontal area across the ground. This would function a lot like Palutena’s Heavenly Light custom special in that it does not cause any flinching or knockback but damages anyone caught in the mist.

Side Special – Dark Bomb – Magus sends out a glowing ball of energy that he can slightly control the trajectory of similar to Zelda’s Din’s Fire move which then detonates into an sphere of negative energy that deals heavy damage and knockback.

Running Attack

Magus swings his scythe upwards

Aerials

Neutral Air: Magus holds his arms outstretched and surrounds himself in dark energy similar to Mewtwo’s neutral air.

Up Air: Magus swings his scythe in an arc above him similar to Sephiroth.

Forward Air: Magus swings his scythe diagonally downwards and catches opponents whom he flings backwards.

Back Air: Magus stabs backward with the handle of his scythe.

Down Air: Magus jabs downards with the spike at the end of his scythe which can spike opponents.

Throws

Grab and Pummel: Magus traps his opponents in a sphere of dark energy and electrifies it as a pummel.

Up Throw: Magus throws the orb upwards causing it to explode and the opponent to go flying outward.

Down Throw: Magus slams the orb into the ground which causes it to explode.

Forward Throw: Magus propels the orb forward and tosses his scythe through it like a javelin, causing it to explode.

Back Throw: Magus teleports the orb behind him, causing it to explode.

Final Smash

Final Smash – Dark Matter – This is based on Magus’ most powerful skill in Chrono Trigger. Magus envelops the opponent in darkness with his cape. This starts out a lot like Meta Knight’s final Smash. It then transports anyone caught to a cutscene that causes massive damage to each of these opponents with a massive spinning triangle of dark energy.

Taunts

Taunt 1 – Magus crosses his arms and floats upwards as he says “The black wind howls.”

Taunt 2 – Magus tightens his glove as his says “Do you hear that? It’s the sound of the reaper.”

Taunt 3 – Magus’ scythe circles around him, floating in the air.

Victory Quotes

“Nothing can live forever.”

“The weak always strive to be weaker.”

“You got whacked ‘cuz you’re weak.”

What kind of music could Magus bring?

Chrono Trigger is famous for its amazing soundtrack with many standout classics. Here are a few that I would love to see:

Chrono Trigger Main Theme
Battle
Battle with Magus
Corridors of Time
Schala's Theme
Undersea Palace
Black Omen
World Revolution
Frog's Theme
The Final Battle

What would his stage be?

I think a great idea for his stage would be the final battle with Lavos. Throughout the battle, you are transported thoughout every era so it would be a great way to showcase the time travelling aspect to the game.

What would Magus' alternate outfits be?

Magus has to options for alternate costumes. The first is the cloak that he wears to disguise himself as he travels back to his own time period. The second, which is a bit more out there is based on Guile from Chrono Cross. As you may know, Guile was originally planned to be Magus in the early stages of Chrono Cross but the idea was scrapped and Guile was made into his own character. I think it would be a fun callback to reference Guile in one of Magus' alternate outfits. As for palate swaps, one idea is to have one based on his sprite with the blue cape rather than the red one in his artwork.

Spoiler

What kind of Spirits could he bring?

The most likely scenario here is that Magus would bring over every playable character as a Spirit, including Crono himself as well as other prominent characters such as Schala as well as his generals, Ozzy, Flea, and Slash.

Spoiler

 

[NintenZ]

You know, if we’re talking about a series where there is no main character that could be in Smash…?

someone from Soulcaliber would be great!

 

[Gengar84]

You know, if we’re talking about a series where there is no main character that could be in Smash…?
View attachment 368095
someone from Soulcaliber would be great!

I’d love to see either Nightmare or Astaroth in Smash. Of the two, Nightmare is way more likely as he’s probably the most iconic character but Astaroth has always been my main.

 

[NintenZ]

I’d love to see either Nightmare or Astaroth in Smash. Of the two, Nightmare is way more likely as he’s probably the most iconic character but Astaroth has always been my main.

I’d say the most iconic character from the series is Ivy Valentine, she won’t be in Smash though cause she makes Mai look tame in comparison.

Anyways my choices would be Kilik or Taki.

 

[Ivander]

You know, if we’re talking about a series where there is no main character that could be in Smash…?
View attachment 368095
someone from Soulcaliber would be great!

Nightmare would be the likely pick because he and Soul Edge are the series mascot. And when looking at Heihachi being considered and Kazuya being chosen despite being a villain in later games, villain mascots certainly aren't off the table.

 

[Gengar84]

I always really liked Nightmare’s alt from Soul Calibur II. That would make a really cool Smash alternate costume. It would also be a nice reference to Siegfried.

His stage theme from that game was great as well and is my favorite song in the series:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Man Bamco is way too humble when they have been developing Smash, only putting two of their characters when they have such a rich catalogue of them.

 

[NintenZ]

Man Bamco is way too humble when they have been developing Smash, only putting two of their characters when they have such a rich catalogue of them.

Perhaps we should change that

 

[chocolatejr9]

Man Bamco is way too humble when they have been developing Smash, only putting two of their characters when they have such a rich catalogue of them.

Pac-Man, Tekken, SoulCaliber, Tales, Dig Dug, and that's just the stuff with Smash content: there's also Digimon, Klonoa, Katamari, Taiko no Tatsujin, .hack if you wanna dig a little deeper...

Man, they've got a bunch. Good thing they're so buddy-buddy with Nintendo: even if they stop developing Smash, they're still good for more.

 

[Mamboo07]

You know, if we’re talking about a series where there is no main character that could be in Smash…?
View attachment 368095
someone from Soulcaliber would be great!

Nightmare all the way.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Man Bamco is way too humble when they have been developing Smash, only putting two of their characters when t hey have such a rich catalogue of them.

...do they though?

Feels like, after you add a SoulCalibur character, you drop into literal who territory pretty fast. Unfortunately, a lot of Namco's biggest franchises are 4th party.

Like, look at the intro of NxC, and compare the N-side to the C-side:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[Perkilator]

Man Bamco is way too humble when they have been developing Smash, only putting two of their characters when they have such a rich catalogue of them.

Pac-Man, Tekken, SoulCaliber, Tales, Dig Dug, and that's just the stuff with Smash content: there's also Digimon, Klonoa, Katamari, Taiko no Tatsujin, .hack if you wanna dig a little deeper...

Man, they've got a bunch. Good thing they're so buddy-buddy with Nintendo: even if they stop developing Smash, they're still good for more.

On another note, it just further cements that none of the 3rd party companies already represented got other minor content like Spirits or songs in the base game for franchises without playable characters.

 

[Ivander]

Pac-Man, Tekken, SoulCaliber, Tales, Dig Dug, and that's just the stuff with Smash content: there's also Digimon, Klonoa, Katamari, Taiko no Tatsujin, .hack if you wanna dig a little deeper...

Man, they've got a bunch. Good thing they're so buddy-buddy with Nintendo: even if they stop developing Smash, they're still good for more.

Hmm, what's that I see hidden in the foggy grey background?

Hmm, I think I see more hiding. Let's take a closer look in the darkness.

 

[osby]

Hmm, what's that I see hidden in the foggy grey background?

Hmm, I think I see more hiding. Let's take a closer look in the darkness.

Funny, I know someone who first thought that Sora's reveal trailer was for a Dark Souls character and was really disappointed when it turned out to be a Kingdom Hearts fighter.

 

[Mamboo07]

Funny, I know someone who first thought that Sora's reveal trailer was for a Dark Souls character and was really disappointed when it turned out to be a Kingdom Hearts fighter.

The bonfire thing.

 

[Ivander]

Funny, I know someone who first thought that Sora's reveal trailer was for a Dark Souls character and was really disappointed when it turned out to be a Kingdom Hearts fighter.

I don't blame them. Dark Souls was also the first thing I thought when I saw the lone flame. Nor was I the only one who thought so with a bunch of others and streamers, including Maximilian Dood, also mentioned Dark Souls quite quickly too. The setting was very perfect for a Dark Souls reveal, but I was certainly not against Sora(especially when the Orchestral Hikari/Simple and Clean music kicked in ).

 

[fogbadge]

You know, if we’re talking about a series where there is no main character that could be in Smash…?
View attachment 368095
someone from Soulcaliber would be great!

so what you're saying is we need more kilik?

 

[osby]

...do they though?

Feels like, after you add a SoulCalibur character, you drop into literal who territory pretty fast. Unfortunately, a lot of Namco's biggest franchises are 4th party.

Like, look at the intro of NxC, and compare the N-side to the C-side:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

I know Smash fans don't play video games but Bandai Namco still has .hack, Tales, Dark Souls/Elden Ring, Digimon, God Eater, Klonoa, and Katamari Damacy among others.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The thing is with Namco is that even if all their franchises wouldn't necessarily produce fighters, there's still a ton of content to make assist trophies, items, & stages. Whether that's stuff like .hack, Katamari, or of course:

 

[PeridotGX]

Funny, I know someone who first thought that Sora's reveal trailer was for a Dark Souls character and was really disappointed when it turned out to be a Kingdom Hearts fighter.

I was extremely confident in an Undertale/Deltarune character being FP11, so when the trailer opened with the Light Running Low and Mario approaching a Light Burning in the Cold (which could have been an interpretation of an UT SAVE point) I was feeling like the king of the world. Then Mario threw the keyblade, which split my mind into two thoughts: "DAMNIT I WAS WRONG" and "HOLY **** SORA?".

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

If you ask me I think Dark Souls is actually one of the most likeliest 3rd party franchises to get a character next game. The international success and impact that series has made speaks for itself, not to mention its successor, Elden Ring, is one of the biggest games of this decade thus far. EVERYONE in the gaming sphere was talking about Elden Ring. I think its a no-brainer choice, nearly as much as a Koei Tecmo character in-fact.

 

[fogbadge]

If you ask me I think Dark Souls is actually one of the most likeliest 3rd party franchises to get a character next game. The international success and impact that series has made speaks for itself, not to mention its successor, Elden Ring, is one of the biggest games of this decade thus far. EVERYONE in the gaming sphere was talking about Elden Ring. I think its a no-brainer choice, nearly as much as a Koei Tecmo character in-fact.

well i agree dark souls does feel somewhat likely do excuse me for being a pedant for saying i wasn't talking about elden ring

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

well i agree dark souls does feel somewhat likely do excuse me for being a pedant for saying i wasn't talking about elden ring

Well, you certainly know about it. It got a lot of mainstream attention, massive mainstream attention to even non-gamers. For a non-battle royale or pay to play online experience in modern day, it did incredibly well.

 

[Sucumbio]

Someone mentioned Spore. Maybe not a popular choice but the Sims games maybe? Maxis is one of my all time favorite developers, tho for me their best game was RoboSport lol. But anyway EA... Lots to pick from with EA.

 

[fogbadge]

Someone mentioned Spore. Maybe not a popular choice but the Sims games maybe? Maxis is one of my all time favorite developers, tho for me their best game was RoboSport lol. But anyway EA... Lots to pick from with EA.

I dunno no one ever seems to talk about the sims in smash. certainly one of the few characters not to have a support thread. though I’d find it rather amusing to have a character running around with that green diamond over their head

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I know Smash fans don't play video games but Bandai Namco still has .hack, Tales, Dark Souls/Elden Ring, Digimon, God Eater, Klonoa, and Katamari Damacy among others.

.Hack would make for some neat Mii fighter outfits.


Th weird thing about Digimon is that Bamco seems to like pretending they dont actually own it.
Digimon feels like a series that SHOULD show up in more crossovers and collabs but the only times i can think of where they actually did was the Digimon Vita Bracelet adding Kamen rider characters as creatures you could raise alongside Digimon or the time one of the Tekken girls became a Digidestined. (That last one means on a technicality Tekken is part of the Digimon multiverse and ergo has a small presence in smash already)

 

[chocolatejr9]

.Hack would make for some neat Mii fighter outfits.


Th weird thing about Digimon is that Bamco seems to like pretending they dont actually own it.
Digimon feels like a series that SHOULD show up in more crossovers and collabs but the only times i can think of where they actually did was the Digimon Vita Bracelet adding Kamen rider characters as creatures you could raise alongside Digimon or the time one of the Tekken girls became a Digidestined. (That last one means on a technicality Tekken is part of the Digimon multiversus and ergo has a small presence in smash already)

Oh yeah, I remember this one Digimon event that left people convinced Bamco didn't care about Digimon anymore...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

They prefer to just let the Digimon guys just do their own thing

 

[Gengar84]

That’s a shame. A Digimon Vs Pokémon crossover through Smash could be fun. I’ve only played two Digimon games (the first World on the PS1 and Cyber Sleuth on the PS4) but I enjoyed them both. My only personal issue is that none of my favorite Digimon are really the most likely to be chosen. I think my absolute favorite is Ogremon. Ogremon X looks particularly awesome imo.

 

[fogbadge]

.Hack would make for some neat Mii fighter outfits.


Th weird thing about Digimon is that Bamco seems to like pretending they dont actually own it.
Digimon feels like a series that SHOULD show up in more crossovers and collabs but the only times i can think of where they actually did was the Digimon Vita Bracelet adding Kamen rider characters as creatures you could raise alongside Digimon or the time one of the Tekken girls became a Digidestined. (That last one means on a technicality Tekken is part of the Digimon multiverse and ergo has a small presence in smash already)

well that’s not 100% true. There’s a few digimon a bits of lore that are clear references to other virtual pets they made. plus it had medabots in it at one point