Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

Yes.

Engage basically made sure all the popular and relevant characters from Smash will stay relevant. Also advertisement for probable remakes of FE4 / 5 in one potential game, which could / should lead to remakes of FE 6 + 7 and quite probably FE 9 + 10.

Then we can get remakes of FE 1 + 3!

Wait a minute...

 

[dream1ng]

Honestly this is a very fair jurisdiction, I can definitely see the case for them being in ‘maybe’ you make a lot of good points. Not to get defensive but I didn’t put either though cause I was picking favorites, I just legitimately see the merit for both of them being in. But what you said is perfectly sound, they’re a bit more of a gamble then someone like Waluigi. I’m perfectly content with considering them maybes. At the very least we can agree on Waluigi.

Fair enough, that sounds good to me. I know we always want the best for the characters we like, I've just seen that preclude objectivity before, but fair play for acknowledging the counterargument, it's more than a lot do. So my mistake if I insisted that bias would prevent that.

Fwiw I would be happy to see Lyn, it would be nice to get a FE character because of the fans than because of the marketing schedule. I just see which of those two tends to win out.

But yes, I do agree on Waluigi, I think he actually is befitting of 'high probability' or 'will probably be playable' or whatever. To that end he also sets a fairly high bar for that tier, that, imo, none of the other ATs match. I don't think any are nearly as likely as Waluigi (as things currently stand, at least). Maybe Shadow as an echo, but if it didn't happen for Ultimate, when it made so much sense, maybe it won't happen next time either.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Gonna be real, I think Waluigi is the only one I find particularly likely.

Other first party characters like Isaac, Lyn, Skull Kid and the like, all have the demand and notability. They just need some oomph in their favor like a new game or a reliance on ballot results. Characters like Lyn or Isaac didn't magically become popular post Ultimate. Their popularity has always been there. Nintendo just doesn't seem interested in including them at the moment.

I actually find a lot of the third party characters like Shadow, Alucard and Zero to be a lot more likely. Especially Zero, I think he's very underrated chance wise. Third party secondary characters are a bit of a new frontier and after Sephiroth, I think we'll start to see a lot more of them.

And no, for the record, Lyn didn't start becoming a breakout character in 2017. She's been super popular in Fire Emblem since 2003. Fire Emblem just didn't start celebrating it's own history until 2012 and it took until 2017 for them to really start.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If they ever add Zero i hope they add some of his moves from the Megaman Zero series.

Otherwise all he'd have is his sword.

 

[NintenZ]

And no, for the record, Lyn didn't start becoming a breakout character in 2017. She's been super popular in Fire Emblem since 2003. Fire Emblem just didn't start celebrating it's own history until 2012 and it took until 2017 for them to really start.

I just wanna clear this up, idk if what I said was poorly-worded but I didn't mean she literally became popular in 2017 I meant her popularity only became super apparent then in a mainstream capacity.

Like I don't think Intelligent Systems expected her to do as well as she did in CYL, let alone getting the most votes of all the characters, she did it without being in Smash Bros nonetheless.

I'm well aware she was heavily speculated during Brawl but considering Fire Emblem was much more niche around then I don't think her popularity picked up in the mainstream like it has today, that's really what I'm saying here.

 

[chocolatejr9]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Potentially stupid question: are Nendroids a good way of determining if a character is popular or not? Because honestly, I kinda wanna use this as an excuse to talk about Friday Night Funkin in Smash...

 

[NintenZ]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Potentially stupid question: are Nendroids a good way of determining if a character is popular or not? Because honestly, I kinda wanna use this as an excuse to talk about Friday Night Funkin in Smash...

Nendos are scouted and negotiated by the GoodSmile Company rather than the rights holders asking them, I guess it's a good metric though it's usually most reliable if you're talking about Japanese popularity with many exceptions. (admittedly though idk how popular this game is in Japan)

 

[MrMcNuts]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Potentially stupid question: are Nendroids a good way of determining if a character is popular or not? Because honestly, I kinda wanna use this as an excuse to talk about Friday Night Funkin in Smash...

I mean there's several niche characters like shantae who have one so it's hard to say

 

[Sucumbio]

With the Netflix Castlevania series' success I'd like to think it's yet another indicator that Castlevania is still popular and Alucard in particular (or Sypha or Maria etc) could be expected to return at least as AT and maybe even playable.

Some AT won't come back methinks... I miss the Helirin.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I've been meaning to make this post for a while but I'd like to address how I think how each main title shown in the recent Nintendo Direct may impact certain franchises and characters in regards to Smash. In order of appearance...

Spoiler: Long Read

Pikmin 4: I doubt anyone expects Pikmin or Olimar to be cut, but the game just continues to prove Nintendo is invested in the Pikmin franchise. I don't think any of the new captains have much of a chance of being unique characters. However, the more types of Pikmin that are made, the more I think a new Pikmin character may be added to show them. Olimar's moveset is already one of the most complicated out there and it doesn't include every Pikmin type. Pikmin like Rock or Ice Pikmin may be fun additions to a new character. The dog seems like a good assist trophy.

Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Expansion Pack DLC: We all knew this was coming, so I don't think the content surprised us too much. I don't think the DLC changes anyone's shot of inclusion. Noah and/or Mio are in good spots, but I feel their inclusion is dependent on timing. Xenoblade as a franchise is moving much faster than I personally anticipated. There always seems to be something new and I'm glad the franchise is healthy.

Samba de Amigo: Party Central: Look, I love Amigo, but he isn't being included as anything other than maybe a spirit or whatever the new equivalent is. Glad the franchise is alive though.

Fashion Dreamer: Okay I think this is impactful but in a negative way. This is being may by the Style Savvy developers. But it isn't a Style Savvy game, and it isn't being published by Nintendo as far as I know. Part of me wonders if Nintendo is moving away from the Style Savvy IP. If so, a character from that franchise may be doomed.

Dead Cells: Return to Castlevania DLC: Castlevania is alive...? Kinda? The IP is in such a strange state of limbo that I'm just glad Konami seems to let others use it.

TRON Identity: Lmao.

Ghost Trick: Phantom Detectice: Well this is a surprise. Ghost Trick is a pretty small Capcom IP so I don't see it being referenced at all. Sissel being back is nice.

DECAPOLICE: This seems neat, but its the reveal of a brand new IP. We have no idea how popular the game will be. I will say that Level 5 has bigger IPs that would probably require more attention.

Bayonetta Origins: Cereza and the Lost Demon: Pretty sure most of us felt confident that Bayonetta is going to stick around. I do think that an IP that is willing to experiment with spinoffs is a sign of confidence. If Bayonetta was a struggling franchise like it used to be, this game wouldn't exist. Bayonetta is probably going to stay with Nintendo for the foreseeable future.

Splatoon 3 Expansion Pass: Yeah Splatoon is still really big and really healthy. The DLC doesn't change that, but I do think we'll see another Splatoon character next game. I do find it interesting that Callie and Marie are highlighted so prominently.

Disney Illusion Island: Mickey and friends aren't getting into Smash, but I guess this means Nintendo and Disney have a good relationship? Maybe its a good sign for Sora? I dunno. I guess TRON Identity also signifies that but... lmao.

Fire Emblem Engage Expansion Pass: I mean, every Fire Emblem character playable in Smash is in Engage now. Engage's impact will almost entirely help Alear and no one else. Other Fire Emblem characters included have already been noted to be popular and marketable. Engage's DLC is just a continuation of that.

Harmony: The Fall of Reverie: I have no real thoughts here. I think this is just going to release and fade away sadly.

Octopath Traveler II: Okay hot take time. I think an Octopath character or a Bravely character are a lot more likely than people think. Nintendo is really holding these series close. They get major marketing promotion and even a presence in Smash. I think that if these franchises continue, we can see them included like Bayonetta and Banjo were. More minor third parties with close Nintendo ties. (I know both were stated to be included from the ballot but I digress).

We Love Katamari REROLL+ Royal Reverie: Katamari is really fun and is more popular than some would have you believe. Namco still has a lot of juggernaut franchises that aren't in yet and Nintendo doesn't seem super invested in the Katamari franchise. I don't see it.

Sea of Stars: This seems like a new IP. We'll have to wait and see.

Omega Strikers: Same as the above. New IPs from small studios are crapshoots.

Etrian Odyssey Origins Collection: It's alive! This is a big surprise for me. I thought this franchise was kind of dead after dual screen handhelds went out of style. I don't se Etrian Odyssey getting anything in Smash, but please buy the game. It deserves to live.

Advance Wars 1 + 2 Re-boot Camp: IT'S ALIVE. Okay a dormant Nintendo IP coming back is always something to keep an eye on. That said, I don't know if Advance Wars can be included right now. The franchise is historically unpopular in Japan, even if its well regarded in the west. For what ever reason, Andy, Sami and Max don't seem to be popular requests for characters, like fellow GBA icon Isaac. Advance Wars just seems to be cursed for whatever reason. If it gets a new game and cements itself as Nintendo pillar, then I'll jump on the Andy train immediately. It's just so hard to be confident about anything regarding this franchise.

Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe: Okay, this game does two things for me. First, it continues Bandana Waddle Dee's immense prominence in the Kirby franchise. And second, it cements Magalor as the runner up behind Bandana Waddle Dee. I've been saying it for a while but Magalor is really popular in the Kirby fandom. The little egg dude is who I'd bet on for a fifth Kirby character. Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Bandana Waddle Dee and Magalor would make for a pretty awesome Kirby roster. I still expect Bandana Waddle Dee first however.

Game Boy and Game Boy Advance on Nintendo Switch Online: As cool as this is, I find this largely inconsequential. Virtual Console and NSO rereleases largely don't mean much in the grand scheme of things and as far as I'm aware, they've never impacted a Smash title. The most it says is that Nintendo still cares about things like Golden Sun, Wario Land and F-Zero. They aren't forgotten and are still seen as valuable IPs. They just aren't priorities.

Metroid Prime Remastered: Even if my own personal hype is THROUGH THE ROOF. All this means is that Metroid continues to be out of dormancy. We've known that since the dual reveal of Samus Returns and Prime 4. While I'm ecstatic that Metroid is in a healthy condition again, this means nothing in regards to Smash. Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Ridley and Dark Samus are all included already and I don't see their inclusions hinging on this.

Master Detectives Archive: RAIN CODE: Spike Chunsoft seems to be a relatively lowkey partner for Nintendo. They've made lots of games for their systems and even partnered up with the Pokemon Company for the Mystery Dungeon series. Still, I don't think Chunsoft is in a position to get anything in Smash. They're just too small.

Baten Kaitos 1 & II HD Remaster: Probably the thing that shocked me the most in this direct. Baten Kaitos is a cool franchise and it has some representation in Smash. The valedictory elegy is a track from the sequel, Baten Kaitos Origins. Don't get confused though, Baten Kaitos 2 and Origins are the same game. Though from what I understand, the Baten Kaitos games have some rights complications. Monolith made both games. Namco published the first one and Nintendo published the second. It's good that the games are returning, but unless a new Baten Kaitos game is made, I don't see this appearing much.

Fantasy Life i: The Girl who Steals Time: It's not a new IP, but I honestly don't know enough about the franchise to really comment.

Professor Layton and The New World of Steam: Okay, this is a biggie. Layton as an IP is huge. It's arguably Level 5's biggest IP with Yokai Watch as the only other contender. Nintendo has also historically been invested in the Layton franchise, giving it a lot of advertising and positive press. If Layton truly makes a successful comeback, I think he's in a fantastic position to be included in Smash Bros. As an IP, Professor Layton is one of those ones I'd watch out for, like with Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Wave 4 DLC: Hooray for Birdo. There's not much else that can be said. Birdo's pretty low on the Mario character totem pole.

Minecraft Legends: Nintendo has made their interest in Minecraft clear. This is just a continuation of that.

Blanc: It's a new IP made by Gearbox. Unfortunately, I don't think this'll do very well.

Mega Man Battle Network Legacy Connection: Mega Man seems to be in an almost healthy state. I'd really love Battle Network content in Smash but I don't find it very likely. If anything, I expect the X series to get the next big content jump.

Have a Nice Death: You can pretty much copy and paste what I said for Blanc here.

WBSC eBaseball: Power Pros: I know this is an ongoing franchise, but I don't think I know enough to comment here either.

Disney Dreamlight Valley: Well, don't ever doubt that Disney and Nintendo have a positive working relationship.

Tales of Symphonia Remastered: MY BOY LLOYD! Fanboying aside, the remaster doesn't change much. Tales is in a great spot to earn a new character in the next game and Lloyd was one of the frontrunners already. If anything, this should just make it clear that Symphonia is one of the more important Tales games. We're probably going to get Lloyd, Yuri or Alphen next game.

The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom: It feels weird to be this close to a new Zelda game and know so darn little about it. As of now, all I can say its that we'll probably see BOTW designs for Link and maybe the others in the new Smash.

TLDR: Layton, Magalor and Octopath Traveler are the big winners here.

Style Savvy is unfortunately the biggest loser.

 

[dream1ng]

Gonna be real, I think Waluigi is the only one I find particularly likely.

Other first party characters like Isaac, Lyn, Skull Kid and the like, all have the demand and notability. They just need some oomph in their favor like a new game or a reliance on ballot results. Characters like Lyn or Isaac didn't magically become popular post Ultimate. Their popularity has always been there. Nintendo just doesn't seem interested in including them at the moment.

I actually find a lot of the third party characters like Shadow, Alucard and Zero to be a lot more likely. Especially Zero, I think he's very underrated chance wise. Third party secondary characters are a bit of a new frontier and after Sephiroth, I think we'll start to see a lot more of them.

And no, for the record, Lyn didn't start becoming a breakout character in 2017. She's been super popular in Fire Emblem since 2003. Fire Emblem just didn't start celebrating it's own history until 2012 and it took until 2017 for them to really start.

I agree with basically all of this.

I would say, however, that the pool of fan favorite first-parties drains faster than it is replenished though, since very few (if any) first-parties have newly become enduring fanbase favorites. Most characters who have the potential either get included when still current, not necessitating the fanbase, like Inkling, or fall from demand once they fall from recency. Basically all the perpetual favorites are from Brawl or 4-era.

Compounding this is the dwindling pool of current and recurring major characters, and, even with the growing third-party presence, it can't just be promotional characters and new IP on the other end.

So, with a mostly fixed group of diehard Nintendo favorites, and the expectation that the first-party selection will include at least a couple fanbase-related choices, eventually we may end up getting characters like Isaac through pure attrition. I mean, he's just an example, but someone has to come after Waluigi.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Potentially stupid question: are Nendroids a good way of determining if a character is popular or not? Because honestly, I kinda wanna use this as an excuse to talk about Friday Night Funkin in Smash...

They're pickier than Funko, but honestly, not that picky.

Still cool to see.

 

[SPEN18]

Well, if nothing else I can reiterate that the pool of worthy potential AT promotions is still pretty deep. Scattered thoughts on likelihoods:

I perceive Isaac and Waluigi to be the most likely because they have the most evident popularity bases. Waluigi is kinda like Ridley in that he may have been hurt on the Ballot due to NPC status but his popularity is pretty obvious anyway at this point; Isaac is more like K. Rool in that his performance on polls probably surprised Nintendo enough to at least pay attention.

Skull Kid and Lyn I refuse to count out because if we ever do get a legacy rep from Zelda and/or FE, then these are probably the most likely ones to fill those spots (ignoring Impa here, who probably would get in for being recurring rather than being explicitly legacy). Also as was said above Lyn's popularity has gotten more recognition by IS in recent years. Skull Kid may have easily been the top Zelda pick on the Ballot.

Krystal rn is lower than the four above I think, but could easily shoot up the list if we ever got a brand new Star Fox game with her part of the plot. Similarly, Spring Man is unlikely right now, but could gain lots of ground if we got ARMS 2.

Ashley has kinda faded.

With Midna and Ghirahim, I like the potential but perceive them to be less likely than Skull Kid and Impa.

Takamaru is possible; at least he's on the speculation map but he's still unlikely due to lower sales and less worldwide recognition than other potential NES retro reps.

Honestly I could squint and kinda see Squid Sisters, but if we got a Splatoon rep beyond Octoling then someone like DJ Octavio is probably a more straightforward choice.

There are also a number of others who aren't likely but could always fit the bill as a surprise rep: Dr. Kawashima or Vince; haha I will even list Nintendog here just for fun even though its best chance may have been Brawl.

Out of the third party ones I think Shadow and Bomberman have a shot. Zero I feel is less likely than other Capcom reps and I don't see them doubling up on Castlevania, really.

The rest which I didn't mention I don't think are likely (assuming I didn't accidentally skip anyone).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I agree with basically all of this.

I would say, however, that the pool of fan favorite first-parties drains faster than it is replenished though, since very few (if any) first-parties have newly become enduring fanbase favorites. Most characters who have the potential either get included when still current, not necessitating the fanbase, like Inkling, or fall from demand once they fall from recency. Basically all the perpetual favorites are from Brawl or 4-era.

Compounding this is the dwindling pool of current and recurring major characters, and, even with the growing third-party presence, it can't just be promotional characters and new IP on the other end.

So, with a mostly fixed group of diehard Nintendo favorites, and the expectation that the first-party selection will include at least a couple fanbase-related choices, eventually we may end up getting characters like Isaac through pure attrition. I mean, he's just an example, but someone has to come after Waluigi.

Out of curiosity, where would you say that the line is drawn for first party fan favorites? I ask because while Waluigi seems to be the obvious frontrunner, I still feel there are a lot of fan favorites not included, without delving into the ATs.

I'm also really curious as to who you think the perpetual favorites from Brawl and 4 are.


That aside, I don't think the falls from demand are from a lack of recency. I think the visible falls are from being deemed unlikely. Support becomes quiet when the characters isn't seen as likely. Doesn't mean its gone though.

Ashley has kinda faded.

Frankly, no. Ashley is still far and away the most popular Wario character. Ashley's demand is one of those fanbases that quieted down due to being deconfirmed early. If a new game is announced, I expect her to pop up and be a major player again.

 

[SPEN18]

Ya Pikmin could easily get another alt character next time; a semiclone with Rock and/or Ice Pikmin is less likely but also very possible assuming Pikmin 4 does well.

RIP Style Savvy, unfortunately. At least for the foreseeable future.

Mm, I disagree that Engage doesn't help older FE characters like Lyn, who are gaining lots of visibility and renewed marketing from this. Certainly it helps Lyn just as much as it helps the existing Smash reps not get cut. IMO this game is the perfect one to skip a newcomer in favor of a legacy rep, given that its nature is celebrating the history of FE. That and the decidedly mixed community response to Alear (though I don't mind Alear's design myself).

Being classically a Marx supporter, it pains me a bit to see them pushing Bandana Dee and Magolor instead; that said, both Dee and Magolor broke out in Return to Dreamland, which is one of my favorite Kirby games also besides Super Star. Merit-wise they're all strong. So I'm good with all three of them now, honestly; my soft spot is just for Marx.

Frankly, no. Ashley is still far and away the most popular Wario character. Ashley's demand is one of those fanbases that quieted down due to being deconfirmed early. If a new game is announced, I expect her to pop up and be a major player again.

That fanbase has gone dormant for quite a while, though, so it's reasonable to wonder if it can bounce back fully. I could see her exploding again, though, sure. I just don't expect it as much anymore.
Then again, I could just be blinded because when it comes to WarioWare characters I am the oddball Jimmy T. enjoyer. Also it kinda bothers me that Ashley doesn't appear in the original Mega Microgames.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Then again, I could just be blinded because when it comes to WarioWare characters I am the oddball Jimmy T. enjoyer.

Ah. You are a man of culture.

I respect that.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ya Pikmin could easily get another alt character next time; a semiclone with Rock and/or Ice Pikmin is less likely but also very possible assuming Pikmin 4 does well.

RIP Style Savvy, unfortunately. At least for the foreseeable future.

Mm, I disagree that Engage doesn't help older FE characters like Lyn, who are gaining lots of visibility and renewed marketing from this. Certainly it helps Lyn just as much as it helps the existing Smash reps not get cut. IMO this game is the perfect one to skip a newcomer in favor of a legacy rep, given that its nature is celebrating the history of FE. That and the decidedly mixed community response to Alear (though I don't mind Alear's design myself).

Being classically a Marx supporter, it pains me a bit to see them pushing Bandana Dee and Magolor instead; that said, both Dee and Magolor broke out in Return to Dreamland, which is one of my favorite Kirby games also besides Super Star. Merit-wise they're all strong. So I'm good with all three of them now, honestly; my soft spot is just for Marx.



That fanbase has gone dormant for quite a while, though, so it's reasonable to wonder if it can bounce back fully. I could see her exploding again, though, sure. I just don't expect it as much anymore.
Then again, I could just be blinded because when it comes to WarioWare characters I am the oddball Jimmy T. enjoyer. Also it kinda bothers me that Ashley doesn't appear in the original Mega Microgames.

Hey, at least you're not a 9-Volt supporter. Like me...

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

I am actually pretty confident Pikmin will get another character. Although I don't see a unique one happening unless Oatchi is added as apart of the moveset of the newest protag if she isn't just an alt or echo. I can easily see Louie being added as an echo if not her. However, if Pikmin were to get a fully new unique character, I think that character should be the Wraith. I have no idea if we will see the Wraith again in Pikmin 4, but I would be shocked if we don't, as it is implied to be the planet PNF-404 itself in one being. Which goes completely unexplained, or not into much detail, there is much more to learn about this antagonist of Pikmin, as they have appeared in the form of the Goolix and the Water Wraith before. If this character continues to be important, it's entirely possible this beast could become a playable character, it is the main antagonist and is (somehow) part of the planet Pikmin takes place on.

 

[Laniv]

View attachment 367958
decided to go ahead and make a new version of the list, I appreciate all of your feedback on the original it was helpful.

This is pretty solid, though I do have some things to say

1. Every time someone suggests Black Knight as an Ike echo a manakete loses their wings

2. I like how Sheriff is seen as a possible surprise pick

also I do appreciate that Tiki is at least somewhat likely

 

[Ivander]

I mean, unless the indie game has had a big impact(like Shovel Knight, Hollow Knight or Undertale) or has a big impact recently(been seeing alot of Hi-Fi Rush ever since it's release) I wouldn't expect Nintendo to think about indie games appearing in Smash for the most part. Unless of course, Sakurai manages to convince Nintendo to add in a particular one.

That aside, never thought I'd see a Sega game where Sega is the main antagonist.

For context, this game is called 404 Game Re:Set, a mobile game being done by Yoko Taro, the creator of Drakengard and Nier, that consists of Personafications of Sega franchises like Afterburner, Out Run, Virtua Fighter, etc, called CASTS, kinda like Hyperdimensia Neptune having the personifications of Video game consoles. And apparently, the setting is that it takes place in a world where Sega succeeded in becoming a leading force in the business world and continued to the point of eventually controlling the world(hence why you see Sonic/Eggman traffic signals) using brainwashed CASTS.
By what I've heard, it's apparently a Gacha RPG game with elements of Shoot-em-ups and according to Taro, it's not going to be unlike his previous titles, especially if the trailer depicting personified Sega franchises getting decapitated, broken and whatnot is anything to go by.

 

[Zerp]

Speaking of Pikmin, I genuinely think a Bulborb wouldn't be the craziest thing ever. Like yeah, I know, it's a generic enemy and it's huge. It's also like the face of the franchise after the Pikmin and Olimar.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was no AT promotion for the next game, considering none of them feel like “obviously super likely” fighters.

Spring Man especially stands out in this regard. He's the clear next in line for a game that had a successful first outing,

But there is no clear “next in line” for a second ARMS character since everyone is the protagonist. It wouldn’t be remotely surprising if Twintelle or Ninjara was the next ARMS character. Min Min already beat Spring Man to the punch despite the fact she was less promoted than him within ARMS.

 

[Quillion]

I still think same-game AT promotion based on fan demand would be better.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I mean, unless the indie game has had a big impact(like Shovel Knight, Hollow Knight or Undertale) or has a big impact recently(been seeing alot of Hi-Fi Rush ever since it's release) I wouldn't expect Nintendo to think about indie games appearing in Smash for the most part. Unless of course, Sakurai manages to convince Nintendo to add in a particular one.

That aside, never thought I'd see a Sega game where Sega is the main antagonist.

For context, this game is called 404 Game Re:Set, a mobile game being done by Yoko Taro, the creator of Drakengard and Nier, that consists of Personafications of Sega franchises like Afterburner, Out Run, Virtua Fighter, etc, called CASTS, kinda like Hyperdimensia Neptune having the personifications of Video game consoles. And apparently, the setting is that it takes place in a world where Sega succeeded in becoming a leading force in the business world and continued to the point of eventually controlling the world(hence why you see Sonic/Eggman traffic signals) using brainwashed CASTS.
By what I've heard, it's apparently a Gacha RPG game with elements of Shoot-em-ups and according to Taro, it's not going to be unlike his previous titles, especially if the trailer depicting personified Sega franchises getting decapitated, broken and whatnot is anything to go by.

See this video with not much interest: No Fear
Sonic becomes an anime girl: One Fear
Persona 5 will make a collab, killing off the game one year later: No Fear (Again)

Jokes aside, i want to see anime girls versions of ToeJam and Earl and Kid Chameleon.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I mean, unless the indie game has had a big impact(like Shovel Knight, Hollow Knight or Undertale) or has a big impact recently(been seeing alot of Hi-Fi Rush ever since it's release) I wouldn't expect Nintendo to think about indie games appearing in Smash for the most part. Unless of course, Sakurai manages to convince Nintendo to add in a particular one.

That aside, never thought I'd see a Sega game where Sega is the main antagonist.

For context, this game is called 404 Game Re:Set, a mobile game being done by Yoko Taro, the creator of Drakengard and Nier, that consists of Personafications of Sega franchises like Afterburner, Out Run, Virtua Fighter, etc, called CASTS, kinda like Hyperdimensia Neptune having the personifications of Video game consoles. And apparently, the setting is that it takes place in a world where Sega succeeded in becoming a leading force in the business world and continued to the point of eventually controlling the world(hence why you see Sonic/Eggman traffic signals) using brainwashed CASTS.
By what I've heard, it's apparently a Gacha RPG game with elements of Shoot-em-ups and according to Taro, it's not going to be unlike his previous titles, especially if the trailer depicting personified Sega franchises getting decapitated, broken and whatnot is anything to go by.

What's funny is that even in a premise where video game franchises have been transformed into sapient entities, the most unrealistic thing about the setting is the idea that Sega of America and Sega of Japan were able to cooperate and thrive for an extended period of time.

 

[Speed Weed]

I'll be honest, the Yoko Taro SEGA game seems like kind of a really weird and stupid premise with no major appeal, so I don't think this'll last long, but hey, more classic SEGA shoutouts! I ain't complaining!

Anyway, a while back ago, I made a list for myself of all the IP SEGA referenced across their 60th anniversary material. I think that's probably a good frame of reference for which IP could be in this game, as it gives us a window into which IP SEGA treat with reverence. That said, I've decided to exclude A. a lot of these sorts of Japan-only mobile and card games and such, as I feel they kinda clog up the list and I want to focus on the ones with IMO a more established presence in SEGA's oeuvre, and B. IP that only appeared in their DJ Mix album, as those songs were picked with the intention of flowing together and not necessarily of being a "greatest hits" of SEGA music. I've also decided to exclude Atlus stuff for now, as we have no idea if those will be thrown in the mix. Otherwise, here's a decent chunk of Stuff SEGA Have Shown To Like Putting In Stuff And Thus Could Show Up In Here:

Spoiler: beeg list

-Sonic the Hedgehog
-Yakuza
-Puyo Puyo
-Phantasy Star
-Sakura Wars
-Space Harrier
-Virtua Fighter
-Valkyria Chronicles
-Shining
-Virtual-ON
-Chain Chronicle
-Wonderland Wars
-Performai
-Border Break
-StarHorse
-Mushiking
-Daytona USA
-The House of the Dead
-Pengo
-Altered Beast
-Fantasy Zone
-Shinobi
-Golden Axe
-Dynamite Deka
-Love and Berry
-Dinosaur King
-Samba de Amigo
-Sangokushi Taisen
-SEGA Net Mahjong
-NiGHTS
-Rub Rabbits
-Guardian Heroes
-Alex Kidd
-Skies of Arcadia
-Rent A Hero
-Clockwork Knight
-Shenmue
-Crazy Taxi
-Jet Set Radio
-Panzer Dragoon
-Rez
-Space Channel 5
-SEGAGAGA
-7th Dragon
-Resonance of Fate
-Rhythm Thief
-Bayonetta
-Vanquish
-Infinite Space
-MadWorld/Anarchy Reigns
-Super Monkey Ball
-Seaman
-Fighting Vipers
-Roommania
-Stella Glow
-Hero Bank
-Quartet
-Columns
-Spikeout
-Bonanza Bros./Puzzle and Action
-Burning Rangers
-Hang-On
-OutRun
-After Burner/G-LOC
-Galaxy Force
-Rad Mobile
-Virtua Racing
-Wing War
-Head-On
-Tranquilizer Gun
-Monaco GP
-Super Locomotive
-Congo Bongo
-Flicky
-Zoom 909
-Teddy Boy Blues
-Enduro Racer
-SDI
-Thunder Blade
-Power Drift
-Gain Ground
-Streets of Rage
-Rail Chase
-Virtua Cop
-SEGA Rally
-SCUD Race
-Derby Owners Club
-World Club Champion Football

As a bonus, here's stuff that was nowhere to be found in the 60th anni BUT shows up in the Sonic movie logo:

-SEGA Bass Fishing
-Alien Syndrome
-Gunstar Heroes
-Dragon Force
-Girl's Garden
-Game no Kanzume

so er yeah I think this is a decent estimate of what stuff could show up in the mobile game, though obviously not all. there are a few other IP that are nowhere on this list but I could theoretically see getting a shoutout

 

[HyperSomari64]

What's funny is that even in a premise where video game franchises have been transformed into sapient entities, the most unrealistic thing about the setting is the idea that Sega of America and Sega of Japan were able to cooperate and thrive for an extended period of time.

Did they turned Total War and Ecco the Dolphin as well?

 

[Quillion]

It really seems like a waste of a premise to make that SEGA crossover game a mobile gacha.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I mean, unless the indie game has had a big impact(like Shovel Knight, Hollow Knight or Undertale) or has a big impact recently(been seeing alot of Hi-Fi Rush ever since it's release) I wouldn't expect Nintendo to think about indie games appearing in Smash for the most part. Unless of course, Sakurai manages to convince Nintendo to add in a particular one.

That aside, never thought I'd see a Sega game where Sega is the main antagonist.

For context, this game is called 404 Game Re:Set, a mobile game being done by Yoko Taro, the creator of Drakengard and Nier, that consists of Personafications of Sega franchises like Afterburner, Out Run, Virtua Fighter, etc, called CASTS, kinda like Hyperdimensia Neptune having the personifications of Video game consoles. And apparently, the setting is that it takes place in a world where Sega succeeded in becoming a leading force in the business world and continued to the point of eventually controlling the world(hence why you see Sonic/Eggman traffic signals) using brainwashed CASTS.
By what I've heard, it's apparently a Gacha RPG game with elements of Shoot-em-ups and according to Taro, it's not going to be unlike his previous titles, especially if the trailer depicting personified Sega franchises getting decapitated, broken and whatnot is anything to go by.

A SEGAGAGA sequel made by Yoko Taro where the Virtua Fighter rep is a JoJo character? Alright, I think I'll play along here. Curious how far they're willing to go with this...

I'll be honest, the Yoko Taro SEGA game seems like kind of a really weird and stupid premise with no major appeal, so I don't think this'll last long, but hey, more classic SEGA shoutouts! I ain't complaining!

Anyway, a while back ago, I made a list for myself of all the IP SEGA referenced across their 60th anniversary material. I think that's probably a good frame of reference for which IP could be in this game, as it gives us a window into which IP SEGA treat with reverence. That said, I've decided to exclude A. a lot of these sorts of Japan-only mobile and card games and such, as I feel they kinda clog up the list and I want to focus on the ones with IMO a more established presence in SEGA's oeuvre, and B. IP that only appeared in their DJ Mix album, as those songs were picked with the intention of flowing together and not necessarily of being a "greatest hits" of SEGA music. I've also decided to exclude Atlus stuff for now, as we have no idea if those will be thrown in the mix. Otherwise, here's a decent chunk of Stuff SEGA Have Shown To Like Putting In Stuff And Thus Could Show Up In Here:

Spoiler: beeg list

-Sonic the Hedgehog
-Yakuza
-Puyo Puyo
-Phantasy Star
-Sakura Wars
-Space Harrier
-Virtua Fighter
-Valkyria Chronicles
-Shining
-Virtual-ON
-Chain Chronicle
-Wonderland Wars
-Performai
-Border Break
-StarHorse
-Mushiking
-Daytona USA
-The House of the Dead
-Pengo
-Altered Beast
-Fantasy Zone
-Shinobi
-Golden Axe
-Dynamite Deka
-Love and Berry
-Dinosaur King
-Samba de Amigo
-Sangokushi Taisen
-SEGA Net Mahjong
-NiGHTS
-Rub Rabbits
-Guardian Heroes
-Alex Kidd
-Skies of Arcadia
-Rent A Hero
-Clockwork Knight
-Shenmue
-Crazy Taxi
-Jet Set Radio
-Panzer Dragoon
-Rez
-Space Channel 5
-SEGAGAGA
-7th Dragon
-Resonance of Fate
-Rhythm Thief
-Bayonetta
-Vanquish
-Infinite Space
-MadWorld/Anarchy Reigns
-Super Monkey Ball
-Seaman
-Fighting Vipers
-Roommania
-Stella Glow
-Hero Bank
-Quartet
-Columns
-Spikeout
-Bonanza Bros./Puzzle and Action
-Burning Rangers
-Hang-On
-OutRun
-After Burner/G-LOC
-Galaxy Force
-Rad Mobile
-Virtua Racing
-Wing War
-Head-On
-Tranquilizer Gun
-Monaco GP
-Super Locomotive
-Congo Bongo
-Flicky
-Zoom 909
-Teddy Boy Blues
-Enduro Racer
-SDI
-Thunder Blade
-Power Drift
-Gain Ground
-Streets of Rage
-Rail Chase
-Virtua Cop
-SEGA Rally
-SCUD Race
-Derby Owners Club
-World Club Champion Football

As a bonus, here's stuff that was nowhere to be found in the 60th anni BUT shows up in the Sonic movie logo:

-SEGA Bass Fishing
-Alien Syndrome
-Gunstar Heroes
-Dragon Force
-Game no Kanzume

so er yeah I think this is a decent estimate of what stuff could show up in the mobile game, though obviously not all. there are a few other IP that are nowhere on this list but I could theoretically see getting a shoutout

The irony that I was just asking about Clockwork Knight the other day. You weren't kidding when you said Sega references that one a lot, huh?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Pretty sure there will be collabs referencing Sega's licensed games like Warhammer or anything cheaper because of the prices to add Mickey Mouse (Illusion series) and the characters from Fist of The North Star are kinda expensive.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Frankly, no. Ashley is still far and away the most popular Wario character. Ashley's demand is one of those fanbases that quieted down due to being deconfirmed early. If a new game is announced, I expect her to pop up and be a major player again.

I expect pretty much the same
Discussion surrounding her died in Ult after her deconfirmation, but so did other ATs like Isaac and Skull Kid. The sad truth is that once your favorite character is hit by the snow globe it becomes hard to talk about them since it's one of the "rules" still kept alive for Smash.

I actually think Ashley has a decent chance for next time! WW GiT sold surprisingly well compared to previous titles, and I really do mean well compared to previous titles.

It's not at Touched! or Smooth Moves level, but considering the rut WarioWare was in during the 2010s I have more reason to be optimistic towards the series future and its outlook at getting a new fighter for Smash.

 

[Quillion]

Honestly, I just think Ashley isn't really fighter material.

Isaac definitely is, and while I think AT is the best spot for Waluigi "Mr. Spin-off", he probably could get in on fan demand.

But Ashley being a fighter just seems forced, and she doesn't even have the protagonist status like Villager does to force it either.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I have to echo other comments about third party assist trophies feeling more likely (even as flawed as that thinking is). Bomberman, Zero, & Alucard especially all feel like such natural fits that any of them getting that spot in the next game wouldn't feel surprising. Heck given the former's promotion to Mii Costume, I often wonder if he might have ended up being playable if Ultimate and/or production of its DLC had gone on longer.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Honestly, I just think Ashley isn't really fighter material.

Isaac definitely is, and while I think AT is the best spot for Waluigi "Mr. Spin-off", he probably could get in on fan demand.

But Ashley being a fighter just seems forced, and she doesn't even have the protagonist status like Villager does to force it either.

Forced how if I might ask? She's a witch that has been shown to cast different types of spells throughout the series and has had her own special mini-games in the series where she was playable (before GiT made the whole cast playable). She has far more to work with than you think.

 

[osby]

Honestly, I just think Ashley isn't really fighter material.

Isaac definitely is, and while I think AT is the best spot for Waluigi "Mr. Spin-off", he probably could get in on fan demand.

But Ashley being a fighter just seems forced, and she doesn't even have the protagonist status like Villager does to force it either.

I don't think she'd be any more forced than Palutena, Rosalina or Isabelle, tbh. Side characters who don't usually fight get into Smash for their popularity all the time and get movesets based on elements associated with them.

 

[Quillion]

Forced how if I might ask? She's a witch that has been shown to cast different types of spells throughout the series and has had her own special mini-games in the series where she was playable (before GiT made the whole cast playable). She has far more to work with than you think.

Forced in that she's a very low-key character who keeps to herself and only makes microgames as a side hobby. She doesn't seem one to concern herself with fights.

I don't think she'd be any more forced than Palutena, Rosalina or Isabelle, tbh. Side characters who don't usually fight get into Smash for their popularity all the time and get movesets based on elements associated with them.

But Palutena had to be a dumping ground for KIU elements Pit had no room for and Isabelle had to get by on being a semi-clone while also being a dumping ground for some elements Villager had no room for.

Plus, Rosalina was an unlockable character for SM3DW.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Forced in that she's a very low-key character who keeps to herself and only makes microgames as a side hobby. She doesn't seem one to concern herself with fights.

But Ashley has been shown to get angry and fight in her own series. This feels like a weird argument to make considering we have....a real life robot toy who was turned into a fighter, or even Isabelle who was lambasted pre-reveal because she's a pacifist.

 

[Perkilator]

I have to echo other comments about third party assist trophies feeling more likely (even as flawed as that thinking is). Bomberman, X, & Alucard especially all feel like such natural fits that any of them getting that spot in the next game wouldn't feel surprising. Heck given the former's promotion to Mii Costume, I often wonder if he might have ended up being playable if Ultimate and/or production of its DLC had gone on longer.

Don’t you mean Bomberman, Zero and Alucard?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Don’t you mean Bomberman, Zero and Alucard?

Ah slipped my mind, meant Zero.

Though X would make a solid addition as well.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ah slipped my mind, meant Zero.

Though X would make a solid addition as well.

Why not do both?

 

[Quillion]

But Ashley has been shown to get angry and fight in her own series. This feels like a weird argument to make considering we have....a real life robot toy who was turned into a fighter, or even Isabelle who was lambasted pre-reveal because she's a pacifist.

You could make anyone a fighter. It doesn't mean you should.

Would you want Beedle to be a fighter on being highly recurrent in Zelda or Anna to be a fighter for being highly recurrent and sometimes fighting in Fire Emblem?