Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

Here’s another question: What criteria are most important to you for your most wanted characters? There’s a lot of things to consider for what a character can bring to Smash. Here are just a few things I consider off the top of my head:

1. Character design
2. Moveset potential
3. Personality
4. Music
5. Legacy (either to Nintendo or gaming as a whole)
6. Stage
7. Other (items, assists, Miis, etc…)

These are more or less listed from most to least important to me for my own most wanted characters. I think that all of these are important in their own way and I could easily imagine others ordering these completely differently, not caring much about some at all, or even adding new fields. I’m curious as to what everyone here thinks.

whether or not i like them

 

[Sucumbio]

Here’s another question: What criteria are most important to you for your most wanted characters? There’s a lot of things to consider for what a character can bring to Smash. Here are just a few things I consider off the top of my head:

1. Character design
2. Moveset potential
3. Personality
4. Music
5. Legacy (either to Nintendo or gaming as a whole)
6. Stage
7. Other (items, assists, Miis, etc…)

These are more or less listed from most to least important to me for my own most wanted characters. I think that all of these are important in their own way and I could easily imagine others ordering these completely differently, not caring much about some at all, or even adding new fields. I’m curious as to what everyone here thinks.

Design / Personality / Moveset - very important
Stage / Music / Content - somewhat important
Legacy of Origin - much less important

 

[smashkirby]

Lark jumps into a cannon for his Neutral Special.

(Look, I've never played Pilotwings 64, okay?)

FYI, I did make a Lark moveset that SourceGaming advertised on their site around the time that Smash 4 was wrapping up development. Trust me, you don't have to worry about the Cannonball thing. I (admittedly) had to pull quite a bit out of my butt to give Lark a moveset...

 

[Wonder Smash]

I like them

whether or not i like them

You can like a character and still not want them for Smash. I like Dante but that doesn't mean I want him in Smash.

 

[Zerp]

Here’s another question: What criteria are most important to you for your most wanted characters? There’s a lot of things to consider for what a character can bring to Smash. Here are just a few things I consider off the top of my head:

1. Character design
2. Moveset potential
3. Personality
4. Music
5. Legacy (either to Nintendo or gaming as a whole)
6. Stage
7. Other (items, assists, Miis, etc…)

These are more or less listed from most to least important to me for my own most wanted characters. I think that all of these are important in their own way and I could easily imagine others ordering these completely differently, not caring much about some at all, or even adding new fields. I’m curious as to what everyone here thinks.

It's kind of funny because if you asked me this a long time ago my priorities would be completely different. They'd be like "Is this character a big deal", "Would this character please the community", "Does this character come from an IP that can use more content", etc. Now, the things I care about are just:

• Do I personally like this character?
• Can I see them being fun for me to play?

That's it really. I genuinely don't care if a character's important at all anymore.

 

[fogbadge]

You can like a character and still not want them for Smash. I like Dante but that doesn't mean I want him in Smash.

i'm well aware of that. byleth was an example of this for me. of course these days i'm more annoyed about their moveset

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Here’s another question: What criteria are most important to you for your most wanted characters? There’s a lot of things to consider for what a character can bring to Smash. Here are just a few things I consider off the top of my head:

1. Character design
2. Moveset potential
3. Personality
4. Music
5. Legacy (either to Nintendo or gaming as a whole)
6. Stage
7. Other (items, assists, Miis, etc…)

These are more or less listed from most to least important to me for my own most wanted characters. I think that all of these are important in their own way and I could easily imagine others ordering these completely differently, not caring much about some at all, or even adding new fields. I’m curious as to what everyone here thinks.

To me, it varies. The simplest thing to say is that I have to like the character and/or what they would show off. Would I still support Crash for example if I did not love his games? Probably, but he is one of my most wanted because I have that connection.

What matters to me is do I like the character, do I think the character would be fun, and would it make others I know happy.

 

[Perkilator]

Continuing from thye "is Smash truly a crossover?" talk from earlier this week…it's at least more of a crossover than this:

My biggest problem with Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam is that its entire plot can be summed up in one screenshot pic.twitter.com/NkLkdXCVwG

— Mr. Duby (@misterduby) January 18, 2023

If you wanna see wasted potential, look no further than Paper Jam.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Continuing from thye "is Smash truly a crossover?" talk from earlier this week,,,it's at least more of a crossover than this:

My biggest problem with Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam is that its entire plot can be summed up in one screenshot pic.twitter.com/NkLkdXCVwG

— Mr. Duby (@misterduby) January 18, 2023

If you wanna see wasted potential, look no further than Paper Jam.

Eh, at least they made it clear with the first trailer what kind of crossover it was gonna be. Doesn't excuse it, but we knew what we were getting into.

Unrelated, but remember THIS?

Advance Wars 1 + 2 Re-Boot Camp for the Nintendo Switch family of systems

— AntDude 🦋 (@antdude92) January 19, 2023

NGL, given we're approaching the one-year anniversary of why this game got delayed, I won't blame anybody for thinking it's outright cancelled...

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

Unrelated, but remember THIS?

Advance Wars 1 + 2 Re-Boot Camp for the Nintendo Switch family of systems

— AntDude 🦋 (@antdude92) January 19, 2023

NGL, given we're approaching the one-year anniversary of why this game got delayed, I won't blame anybody for thinking it's outright cancelled...

Tbh, once the game comes out I will buy it in honest to god support of it. Advance Wars (Or well, in general the Nintendo Wars series) has been dormant for quite some time, and it finally comes back, and yet its delayed for like an entire year. I get why, but wars always have existed. Its timing is a shame, sure, but many many war games come out each year regardless of real life events. It shouldn't have been delayed for more than a couple months at most, I rly don't want this title to fail by lower sales if it gets shadowdropped or something all of a sudden. None of what I am saying is to downplay the situation that got this delayed, it's just factually, there's not much that can be done about it other than release the title, the work has been done.

 

[Gengar84]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. In the end, the most important thing to me is how much I like the character. Everything else just adds to the characters I already wanted and can push some of them to the front if they fill multiple of those criteria. I’m glad I don’t seem to be alone in that.

On the subject of visual design, are there any styles you either particularly like, feel Smash is lacking in, or both? Personally, I’m fond of the visual design of games like WarCraft, League of Legends, Darksiders, and Soul Reaver. I’m not entirely sure what to call that. Dark fantasy maybe? Basically, I like darker themed characters that are still bright, colorful, and stylish. I particularly like the unique designs of the non human characters.

 

[jamesster445]

1. Character design
2. Moveset potential
3. Personality
4. Music
5. Legacy (either to Nintendo or gaming as a whole)
6. Stage
7. Other (items, assists, Miis, etc…)

How much I like them.
In all seriousness this is generally how I found I ranked my most wanted by the following. It's not always so cut and dry. And often times things feed into each other.

Other<Stage< Personality< Music < Character Design < Moveset Potential < Legacy

For me Legacy very much feeds into the other factors and vice versa. Legacy does not exist in a vacuum. Sonic gained his legacy thanks to great character design, fantastic gameplay, an iconic soundtrack etc. For as much as Smash fans didn't know who Terry was, he really did highlight the legacy not only of Fatl Fury but SNK as a whole and he is all the better for it.

My most wanted is still Ryu Hayabusa. A character who had a mark across various KT franchises, that legacy feeds into the other categories. He's got 2 trilogies of radically different game designs to pull moves, music, designs, stages etc from and that's just Ninja Gaiden. But even then, I just like the guy and his games and want to see him in Smash as a result.

On the subject of visual design, are there any styles you either particularly like, feel Smash is lacking in, or both? Personally, I’m fond of the visual design of games like WarCraft, League of Legends, Darksiders, and Soul Reaver. I’m not entirely sure what to call that. Dark fantasy maybe? Basically, I like darker themed characters that are still bright, colorful, and stylish. I particularly like the unique designs of the non human characters.

I hope to see more Sci Fi aesthetics in the future.

 

[Quillion]

On the subject of visual design, are there any styles you either particularly like, feel Smash is lacking in, or both? Personally, I’m fond of the visual design of games like WarCraft, League of Legends, Darksiders, and Soul Reaver. I’m not entirely sure what to call that. Dark fantasy maybe? Basically, I like darker themed characters that are still bright, colorful, and stylish. I particularly like the unique designs of the non human characters.

Are there even any games in the over-the-top dark fantasy style made in Japan?

 

[jamesster445]

Are there even any games in the over-the-top dark fantasy style made in Japan?

Does Dark Souls count?

 

[Quillion]

Does Dark Souls count?

I call that straight dark fantasy. That's nowhere near the Blizzard style Gengar84 is talking about.

 

[dezeray112]

I wouldn't say Virtua Fighter died, tbh, it just was dormant for a long while. After all, Ultimate Showdown is clearly SEGA testing the waters for a brand new entry.

It has been a long while since I last heard of the Virtua Fighter franchise and it would be brilliant if the SEGA can see whether they can bring the game up to date with a new entry.

Here’s another question: What criteria are most important to you for your most wanted characters? There’s a lot of things to consider for what a character can bring to Smash. Here are just a few things I consider off the top of my head:

1. Character design
2. Moveset potential
3. Personality
4. Music
5. Legacy (either to Nintendo or gaming as a whole)
6. Stage
7. Other (items, assists, Miis, etc…)

These are more or less listed from most to least important to me for my own most wanted characters. I think that all of these are important in their own way and I could easily imagine others ordering these completely differently, not caring much about some at all, or even adding new fields. I’m curious as to what everyone here thinks.

I will say it is pretty much from character design, potential moveset, personality and legacy for me.

 

[fogbadge]

On the subject of visual design, are there any styles you either particularly like, feel Smash is lacking in, or both? Personally, I’m fond of the visual design of games like WarCraft, League of Legends, Darksiders, and Soul Reaver. I’m not entirely sure what to call that. Dark fantasy maybe? Basically, I like darker themed characters that are still bright, colorful, and stylish. I particularly like the unique designs of the non human characters.

now that is an interesting question. though i feel smash already has a pretty varied mix, from games with great visuals to games with rubbish visuals. in terms of visuals i'd want to see more of i'd probably go with the cel shaded stuff seen in games like WW and SS. i find both their looks inherently appealing.

i'd also like to say that smash has so far predominantly avoided games with what i feel are the worst visuals and that is "realistic" graphics

 

[osby]

now that is an interesting question. though i feel smash already has a pretty varied mix, from games with great visuals to games with rubbish visuals. in terms of visuals i'd want to see more of i'd probably go with the cel shaded stuff seen in games like WW and SS. i find both their looks inherently appealing.

i'd also like to say that smash has so far predominantly avoided games with what i feel are the worst visuals and that is "realistic" graphics

Depends on how you define it but would you say that Kazuya, Bayonetta, and Snake come from games with realistic graphics? Or Cloud and Sephiroth, if we assume that they lean more towards their Advent Children/Remake looks?

 

[fogbadge]

Depends on how you define it but would you say that Kazuya, Bayonetta, and Snake come from games with realistic graphics? Or Cloud and Sephiroth, if we assume that they lean more towards their Advent Children/Remake looks?

i can't class anything with anime styled character design as realistic. nothing in those games look realistic to me

 

[Gengar84]

i can't class anything with anime styled character design as realistic. nothing in those games look realistic to me

Advent Children and FFVII Remake are kind of a weird middle ground to me between realistic and anime styled. I’ve always personally preferred the straight anime style from the original game’s artwork. It would have been fun to see the remake take things in a different direction and keep that style with cel shading similar to Guilty Gear and Dragon Ball Fighter Z.

 

[osby]

i can't class anything with anime styled character design as realistic. nothing in those games look realistic to me

If Metal Gear games have anime-style character designs, I don't know what counts as realistic character design.

 

[Gengar84]

I think the issue is that there isn’t really one true “anime style”. Anime can have a ton of different looks so it’s hard to really classify. For example, both Disgaea and Guilty Gear could be considered anime styled but look completely different from each other. Just like there isn’t really one look for a western animation style like comparing DOOM to Banjo Kazooie.

 

[fogbadge]

If Metal Gear games have anime-style character designs, I don't know what counts as realistic character design.

well it’s certainly not anything Kojima is involved with

 

[chocolatejr9]

i can't class anything with anime styled character design as realistic. nothing in those games look realistic to me

"You question my realism? Check THIS out!"

(Shoutout to anybody who gets that reference).

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

i'd also like to say that smash has so far predominantly avoided games with what i feel are the worst visuals and that is "realistic" graphics

Uh... are you sure about that? Because I'm fairly certain Brawl happened.

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve always found it difficult to really label any one particular style since there are so many. For example, I would classify myself as a fan of the anime style because I love the look of Tales of Berseria/Arise, Guilty Gear, Chrono Trigger, and FFVII but I’m less into others like Hyperdimension Neptunia, FE Engage, and Xenoblade 2. I also watch a lot of anime like Full Metal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, and My Hero Academia but several others aren’t really for me.

It’s also really tough to even put a name to my favorite styles. Calling the previous games I mentioned “Dark Fantasy” also implies other games like Dark Souls, Bayonetta, and Devil May Cry, which while still pretty cool in their own way, isn’t exactly what I’m trying to refer to and I prefer the “Blizzard style”.

 

[osby]

I’ve always found it difficult to really label any one particular style since there are so many. For example, I would classify myself as a fan of the anime style because I love the look of Tales of Berseria/Arise, Guilty Gear, Chrono Trigger, and FFVII but I’m less into others like Hyperdimension Neptunia, FE Engage, and Xenoblade 2. I also watch a lot of anime like Full Metal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, and My Hero Academia but several others aren’t really for me.

Yeah, some people use "anime" as if it's a useful way to classify every stylized look that came out of Japan but it quickly loses its meaning when you realize just how many distinct styles there are.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Despite FF7's character designs being very 90's anime the actual artstyle tries to go for some level of realism and its weird.

 

[Gengar84]

Despite FF7's character designs being very 90's anime the actual artstyle tries to go for some level of realism and its weird.

Yeah, the new look isn’t bad either but I do strongly prefer the original 90’s anime aesthetics. Square-Enix seems to be really leaning into making their games more realistic over time and I don’t get it. Just look at what’s revealed for Kingdom Hearts 4 so far compared to the rest of the series.

 

[Sucumbio]

Metal Gear Solid is definitely realistic in terms of setting. Its main competition during the early days was Syphon Filter which also strives for realism. Both heavily employed military advisors and other mechanisms to ensure the plausibility of the narrative. What MGS did differently of course was add the mystic quality of characters like Vulcan Raven, or turn science into pseudo science with Foxdie etc. They're not anime in the sense of Inuyasha more like Golgo 13. And of course there's the character Otocon who's a self proclaimed otaku. So yes it's Japanese for sure, but definitely meant to fit into the landscape of the "real world."

 

[osby]

Yeah, the new look isn’t bad either but I do strongly prefer the original 90’s anime aesthetics. Square-Enix seems to be really leaning into making their games more realistic over time and I don’t get it. Just look at what’s revealed for Kingdom Hearts 4 so far compared to the rest of the series.

Final Fantasy VII had a 90s aesthetic because it was made in the 90s.

It's difficult to forget but FF7's graphics were as cutting-edge as it gets when it first came out. I don't think SE's design policy changed all that much, it's just consoles are increasingly becoming more able to render more realistic characters.

 

[Gengar84]

Final Fantasy VII had a 90s aesthetic because it was made in the 90s.

It's difficult to forget but FF7's graphics were as cutting-edge as it gets when it came out. I don't think SE's design policy changed all that much, it's just consoles are increasingly becoming more able to render more realistic characters.

I’m not sure that’s quite the case here but it’s possible. The original art for the characters was definitely very stylized and not very realistic, even when completely ignoring the in game graphics. I feel like this style would look great with modern graphics technology. I don’t think more powerful hardware necessarily has to mean more realism. Just look at modern Guilty Gear games or Dragon Ball Fighter Z for great examples of what modern anime styled games can look like these days.

 

[Sucumbio]

That M shape of his hairline always stands out to me for some reason lol

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The artstyle in the original FF7 was very "cutesy" kinda wish remake went with that tbh

 

[Gengar84]

That M shape of his hairline always stands out to me for some reason lol

Sephiroth has always looked awesome to me but there was just something about that original artwork that has always stuck with me and I particularly love. I feel like his and Cloud’s design in Ultimate are a good middle ground between the anime style of the original game and the more realistic style of Advent Children and Remake.

 

[osby]

That M shape of his hairline always stands out to me for some reason lol

That's an integral part of his anatomy

 

[fogbadge]

Uh... are you sure about that? Because I'm fairly certain Brawl happened.

mess brawl meant to be realistic? The game with the roster with only four characters who wouldn’t count as a cartoon

 

[chocolatejr9]

That's an integral part of his anatomy

View attachment 366670

I didn't know Sephiroth was a trans icon...

(Wait, does that joke work here?)

 

[Opossum]

mess brawl meant to be realistic? The game with the roster with only four characters who wouldn’t count as a cartoon

Brawl absolutely went for a more realistic art direction compared to other Smash games, as is evident by things like Mario's overalls having visible denim. It was likely done in an attempt to mimick the art direction of Twilight Princess, which was the style of the time.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Brawl absolutely went for a more realistic art direction compared to other Smash games, as is evident by things like Mario's overalls having visible denim. It was likely done in an attempt to mimick the art direction of Twilight Princess, which was the style of the time.

Ah yes. The late 2000s with all their browns and grays.

Dark times.

Dark times.