Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

Brawl absolutely went for a more realistic art direction compared to other Smash games, as is evident by things like Mario's overalls having visible denim. It was likely done in an attempt to mimick the art direction of Twilight Princess, which was the style of the time.

well like I said before I just can’t think of any character who looks the way Mario does as realistic

 

[Swamp Sensei]

well like I said before I just can’t think of any character who looks the way Mario does as realistic

You're missing the point here.

Mario himself isn't realistic. But they gave everyone, including Mario a more realistic style in Brawl. It's not a binary thing. It's literally shades of gray, lmao.

 

[Gengar84]

You're missing the point here.

Mario himself isn't realistic. But they gave everyone, including Mario a more realistic style in Brawl. It's not a binary thing. It's literally shades of gray, lmao.

Another way to look at it is just thinking of it as texture styles. Mario’s model definitely isn’t realistic but the textures they gave him and everyone else in Brawl were. Textures alone can definitely go a long way in defining a look of any game.

 

[Quillion]

Ah yes. The late 2000s with all their browns and grays.

Dark times.

Dark times.

Don't forget all the generic linear cinematic stories.

 

[osby]

Something to keep in mind, character design and art direction are different things.

Speaking of which, Smash in general actually still has a more realistic look than Mario games. Characters like Peach have more anatomically accurate proportions (while still being cartoony) and Ultimate still gives everyone more detailed textures without desaturating them.

 

[Quillion]

Something to keep in mind, character design and art direction are different things.

Speaking of which, Smash in general actually still has a more realistic look than Mario games. Characters like Peach have more anatomically accurate proportions (while still being cartoony) and Ultimate still gives everyone more detailed textures without desaturating them.

Mario Odyssey and IIRC more recent Mario spinoffs are edging towards the latter, to be fair.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Don't forget all the generic linear cinematic stories.

I like those.

 

[fogbadge]

You're missing the point here.

Mario himself isn't realistic. But they gave everyone, including Mario a more realistic style in Brawl. It's not a binary thing. It's literally shades of gray, lmao.

im sorry but why is this bothering you so much?

 

[Quillion]

I like those.

I can understand their appeal, but they are unideal uses of the medium.

They don't have to be open world, but linear cinematic games are inevitably handholdy.

 

[Gengar84]

I can understand their appeal, but they are unideal uses of the medium.

They don't have to be open world, but linear cinematic games are inevitably handholdy.

I do love exploration in games but some linear games can be a ton of fun too. Final Fantasy X is still one of my favorite games ever and the whole game was pretty much a straight path until you reach the Calm Lands (then it returns to being a straight path).

 

[osby]

I can understand their appeal, but they are unideal uses of the medium.

They don't have to be open world, but linear cinematic games are inevitably handholdy.

True, but a game holding your hand isn't an inherently bad thing.

Some games try to appeal to a wide audience as possible so that kind of design suits well for being casual friendly. Alternatively, presentation and story may be the whole point, which again, doesn't need to provide player expression because that's not the point.

 

[Oracle Link]

Honestly Smash Bros Brawl and twilight Princess seem to be pandering towards the trends of the time!
Im Glad Nintendo Found a more fitting Style(s) for both these franchises!

 

[SPEN18]

"Linear cinematic" isn't inherently bad. Just very easy to execute poorly due to the nature of the medium. Think a game like XBC1 which could be characterized as essentially linear and heavily cinematic but still houses consistently great gameplay and memorable story elements (I have seen some criticism for excessive tutorial windows in XBC but that's besides the point).

"Open world" is just a buzz term right now that lets "linear cinematic" sound derisive but I think the best of the latter group easily trump the worst of the former group. There's not one ideal way to use the medium or else all games would be pretty much the same; the execution just varies widely with "linear cinematic" games.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ah yes. The late 2000s with all their browns and grays.

Dark times.

Dark times.

Both literally AND metaphorically.

 

[Oracle Link]

"Linear cinematic" isn't inherently bad. Just very easy to execute poorly due to the nature of the medium. Think a game like XBC1 which could be characterized as essentially linear and heavily cinematic but still houses consistently great gameplay and memorable story elements (I have seen some criticism for excessive tutorial windows in XBC but that's besides the point).

"Open world" is just a buzz term right now that lets "linear cinematic" sound derisive but I think the best of the latter group easily trump the worst of the former group. There's not one ideal way to use the medium or else all games would be pretty much the same; the execution just varies widely with "linear cinematic" games.

It seems like nowadays everything has to be open world!
Heck people complainned about KIRBY? Not being Open world Kirby Straight up wouldnt really work with a fully open world maybe some Open Zones but not open world! IMO

 

[Sucumbio]

I can understand their appeal, but they are unideal uses of the medium.

They don't have to be open world, but linear cinematic games are inevitably handholdy.

It's interesting how different things appeal to different people. I personally enjoy such games and actively seek them out. RE4 comes to mind as an example of the best possible way to achieve this design choice.

 

[SPEN18]

True, but a game holding your hand isn't an inherently bad thing.

Some games try to appeal to a wide audience as possible so that kind of design suits well for being casual friendly. Alternatively, presentation and story may be the whole point, which again, doesn't need to provide player expression because that's not the point.

I think most "game design gurus" would tell you to lean towards trusting the player's intelligence and curiosity for exploration. Even casual friendly games don't necessarily require hand-holding and it is generally up to the designer's creativity to introduce the game in a way that is as immersive as it is clear and instructive.

That being said, companies are investing lots of $$$$ into these games and they don't want to risk losing their casual audience within the first 5 minutes of gameplay. So in that light it is understandable that so many studios sacrifice some immersion within their game's first hour in order to ensure that their player actually gets to the main part of the game where most of the immersion should happen anyway. Then again, going too hard in this direction can also lose you an overeager player early on, but at least it is easy to see companies and designers perceiving it to be safer.

 

[Sucumbio]

I think most "game design gurus" would tell you to lean towards trusting the player's intelligence and curiosity for exploration. Even casual friendly games don't necessarily require hand-holding and it is generally up to the designer's creativity to introduce the game in a way that is as immersive as it is clear and instructive.

Dude, ever played High on Life? Their gurus are on another plane of existence lol.

 

[Quillion]

True, but a game holding your hand isn't an inherently bad thing.

Some games try to appeal to a wide audience as possible so that kind of design suits well for being casual friendly. Alternatively, presentation and story may be the whole point, which again, doesn't need to provide player expression because that's not the point.

The best kind of direction (or "handholding") is that which uses lighting and other environmental design to prod the player's attention. Even linear games like Bioshock know this.

Interrupting cutscenes like Alia in Mega Man X5 is bad handholding no matter how you slice it.

 

[fogbadge]

The best kind of direction (or "handholding") is that which uses lighting and other environmental design to prod the player's attention. Even linear games like Bioshock know this.

Interrupting cutscenes like Alia in Mega Man X5 is bad handholding no matter how you slice it.

how about going over everything in detail on the accompanying website in the long road to release?

 

[Sucumbio]

I am kinda tired of the "tutorial" at the beginning of every game.

 

[Gengar84]

I am kinda tired of the "tutorial" at the beginning of every game.

I think it depends on how it’s implemented to me. I actually like getting a chance to know the character and what their life is like before getting thrust into a huge adventure. As long as it’s still telling an interesting story and the combat lessons are well integrated, I kind of enjoy some. Other games, like various Pokémon tutorials can drag on and get a bit boring. While Kingdom Hearts 2 and Twilight Princess’s intros may have dragged on a bit too much, I do appreciate what they were going for. I still enjoyed the intros to both games the first time around but it does make replaying them a bit tedious.

 

[SPEN18]

Dude, ever played High on Life? Their gurus are on another plane of existence lol.

No but it looks wild lol.
I am terrible at FPS games tho.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Dude, ever played High on Life? Their gurus are on another plane of existence lol.

remembers the game's made by Justin Rolland

Yeah... sure...

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Brawl absolutely went for a more realistic art direction compared to other Smash games, as is evident by things like Mario's overalls having visible denim. It was likely done in an attempt to mimick the art direction of Twilight Princess, which was the style of the time.

Ngl, Brawl's aesthetic turned off from Smash at first.

Before i used to think that Super Smash Bros was Nintendo attempt of making themselves appeal "edgy" and gray for times back then like Playstation/Xbox which rub me the wrong way until i actual played the game

 

[Quillion]

I am kinda tired of the "tutorial" at the beginning of every game.

I think it depends on how it’s implemented to me. I actually like getting a chance to know the character and what their life is like before getting thrust into a huge adventure. As long as it’s still telling an interesting story and the combat lessons are well integrated, I kind of enjoy some. Other games, like various Pokémon tutorials can drag on and get a bit boring. While Kingdom Hearts 2 and Twilight Princess’s intros may have dragged on a bit too much, I do appreciate what they were going for. I still enjoyed the intros to both games the first time around but it does make replaying them a bit tedious.

It's the "small town in the middle of nowhere" intros that are the most samey and boring for the most part.

The problem is that it's such a tried and true way to start a conventional story that it's hard to break out of the habit.

 

[Gengar84]

It's the "small town in the middle of nowhere" intros that are the most samey and boring for the most part.

The problem is that it's such a tried and true way to start a conventional story that it's hard to break out of the habit.

It can be surprisingly difficult to be original sometimes. For example, My brother and I have been making characters and a story since we were kids and it definitely seemed original to me at the time but then I played Three Houses and the backstory for the mother in our story is very similar to Edelgarde’s. Our main story even starts out in a small town hidden in the forest, which is kind of cliche in its own way I suppose. We also had another character with a ton of unintentional similarities to Arthas from WarCraft.

 

[Quillion]

It can be really tough to be original these days. My brother and I have been making characters and a story since we were kids and it definitely seemed original to me at the time but then I played Three Houses and the backstory for the mother in our story is very similar to Edelgarde’s. Our main story even starts out in a small town hidden in the forest, which is kind of cliche in its own way I suppose. We also had another character with a ton of unintentional similarities to Arthas from WarCraft.

True. Also, a lot of video games start in plains or forests because they look normal and mundane for the early game.

I still think it's a problem, but I acknowledge that it's one devs are hard-pressed to fix.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Here’s another question: What criteria are most important to you for your most wanted characters?

Legacy of franchise. Iconicness of the character. The end.

I call that straight dark fantasy. That's nowhere near the Blizzard style Gengar84 is talking about.

You think...Warcraft...is over-the-top dark fantasy?

 

[Gengar84]

Legacy of franchise. Iconicness of the character. The end.

You think...Warcraft...is over-the-top dark fantasy?

Yeah, I have no idea what to call WarCraft, League of Legends, Darksiders, and Soul Reaver. They’re all a bit cartoony but with a darker tone and somewhat realistic. I want to say they’re all a bit comic book styled but I’m not sure if that’s right either lol.

 

[fogbadge]

It can be surprisingly difficult to be original sometimes. For example, My brother and I have been making characters and a story since we were kids and it definitely seemed original to me at the time but then I played Three Houses and the backstory for the mother in our story is very similar to Edelgarde’s. Our main story even starts out in a small town hidden in the forest, which is kind of cliche in its own way I suppose. We also had another character with a ton of unintentional similarities to Arthas from WarCraft.

ah but that alas is the curse of creativity. No matter how hard you try originality may be gone from the world

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Brawl absolutely went for a more realistic art direction compared to other Smash games, as is evident by things like Mario's overalls having visible denim. It was likely done in an attempt to mimick the art direction of Twilight Princess, which was the style of the time.

So I made all the characters' clothes have realistic textures, which was the style at the time!

Same Energy:

 

[Gengar84]

So I made all the characters' clothes have realistic textures, which was the style at the time!

View attachment 366700

Same Energy:

Great, no I don’t know if I’ll be able to fall asleep tonight lol.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Great, no I don’t know if I’ll be able to fall asleep tonight lol.

Considering your association with Gengar, I'm surprised you're able to sleep at all...

(Sorry, just wanted to make that joke).

 

[fogbadge]

Considering your association with Gengar, I'm surprised you're able to sleep at all...

(Sorry, just wanted to make that joke).

he only murders you cause he wants friends

 

[Sucumbio]

No but it looks wild lol.
I am terrible at FPS games tho.

Me too! I couldn't beat the first boss without playing on the easiest setting lol

Come to think of it the only console fps I can play well is the Metroid Prime Trilogy.

 

[Zerp]

Brawl's aesthetic was a really weird choice even back then, never understood it. I like it a lot but like wow, it is truly bizarre to me it ever happened.

Same Energy:

I love how Jigglypuff manages to stay cute meanwhile Kirby looks like some nightmare creature lol

 

[Swamp Sensei]

im sorry but why is this bothering you so much?

I'm not bothered. I was just clarifying.

 

[Troykv]

Ah yes. The late 2000s with all their browns and grays.

Dark times.

Dark times.

They were dark in many ways xD

 

[Wonder Smash]

Might as well. He's another iconic video game character from the 80s that would have been right at home at this event.