Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Geno Boost]

what do you think about Geolyte from Meteos in smash a character from a game franchise that was design by sakurai
i think it would be fun addition
he is like the opposite of as Geolyte is made of light and it can be another 2D fighter and both animated in the same way

although he did have 3d design in his last game appearance

 

[fogbadge]

what do you think about Geolyte from Meteos in smash a character from a game franchise that was design by sakurai
i think it would be fun addition
he is like the opposite of as Geolyte is made of light and it can be another 2D fighter and both animated in the same way

although he did have 3d design in his last game appearance

was in brawl under the name mite

 

[TCT~Phantom]

STEINS;GATE dev 'MAGES' entering insolvency https://t.co/XgZ22lMD0L pic.twitter.com/ciTROiMntp

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) December 26, 2022

IDK how many people here care about MAGES (though I DO remember there was a support thread for the main character of Steins:Gate at one point), but I can't help but feel bad if they end up going bankrupt from this...

Adding to this, MAGES also did the Famicom Detective remakes.

I hope they don’t go under, I love steins:gate.

 

[silenthunder]

Speaking of villains, that brings up something I wanted to talk about.

Here's a list of antagonists we have in Smash.

Bowser
Bowser Jr. + Koopalings
Pirahna Plant
King K. Rool
Ganondorf
Dark Samus
Ridley
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Wolf
Mewtwo
Dark Pit
Wario
Sephiroth
Kazuya

That's 15 characters who could be considered antagonists in their home franchises. Keep in mind, several characters in this list have become heroic (like Meta Knight and King Dedede) or neutral (like Mewtwo, Wario ,and Dark Pit) in recent times. I have some questions for everyone?

1. Without regard to their movesets, echo status, or how their franchise has been treated in Smash, what do you think of the antagonists we have in Smash? Do you think the characters chosen are good? Do any stick out in a bad way?
2. Do you think 15 antagonists is enough? Are villains/antagonists something that Smash is lacking in?
3. Which Nintendo antagonists do you think should be in?
4. What 3rd party antagonists do you think should be in?
5. Tekken is actually the only franchise that is only represented by a villain. Could any other franchises get away with that?
6. Protagonists and heroes seem to be Smash's go to characters. What makes an antagonist so special that they should be also included? What gives them that "it" factor?
7. Of the antagonists we have, the far majority were created in the 80s and 90s. We only have three antagonists created after 2000 (Bowser Jr., Dark Samus and Dark Pit). What recent antagonists should be included (defining recent as after 2000.)
8. Conversely, what older antagonists should be included?
9. Are there any franchises where the lack of an antagonist seems strange?
10. And finally, what are some antagonists that you think are so important/popular/etc to be included but can't feasibly be made playable for whatever reason?

1. Ganondorf, Ridley, Sepheroth and Kazuya stick out. I wouldn’t call it bad just odd picks for the game. They are more serious.
2. I think if a character is iconic and has demand it should be included regardless if he’s good, bad, or neutral. (But Eggman is a perfect fit for smash)
3. Fawful would be cool and the T-Rex from SM Odyssy would be a neat addition
4. Eggman, Kefka
5. Yes in many instances I would choose the villain over the hero. I think Geese is just as iconic as Terry and was maybe more recognizable at the time after being included in Tekken.
6. Fawful has charm, Eggman fits smash archetype in everyway, T-Rex offers something new (in his size if it can be balanced), and Geese and Kefka are notable villains.
10. Giagas

There is a good chance there will be a "final boss" or at least an antagonist. But the smash writers behind story mode in each game have refused to give that role to a roster member. I think this is an oversight. Originally, sure it was a cool story actually with the roster being a kid's toys come to life. But now would be a good time to either double down on that or do something completely original but rooted in the roster.

Which leads to my question:

Who would you choose for Antagonist in the next Smash game's story mode, if you could pick only one, ie The True Villain.

Sephiroth? Ganondorf? Kirby? (Seriously tho that'd be hilarious), a new addition like King Boo or...

Kefka as the main antagonist but Glover is revealed to be the true identity of Master hand. Or maybe Sandbag could get revenge.

 

[MrMcNuts]

So this is from Sakurai's latest interview for his YouTube channel. Wonder what it could mean for the next smash

 

[silenthunder]

I know it would be sad to see it go but maybe Smash should retire too. I’m so grateful for everything Sakurai did for this game. If I could go back and change anything I wish I could handle my losses better. This truly is the greatest game.

 

[MrMcNuts]

I know it would be sad to see it go but maybe Smash should retire too. I’m so grateful for everything Sakurai did for this game. If I could go back and change anything I wish I could handle my losses better. This truly is the greatest game.

Nintendo ain't gonna retire it with how much money it makes

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I feel like if Sakurai is truly retired this time, his likely involvement will be in more of a supervisor role. He is still involved and helping, but not as on the ground or in the forefront. Probably involved with training and/or hand picking a successor to helm smash. I think Sakurai would not turn down the option to help in a smaller advisory way for the next Smash.

There is always the chance he just doesn’t retire this time as well, so who knows.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I know it would be sad to see it go but maybe Smash should retire too. I’m so grateful for everything Sakurai did for this game. If I could go back and change anything I wish I could handle my losses better. This truly is the greatest game.

Smash is way too successful for Nintendo to retire.

 

[Geno Boost]

If Sakurai isn’t involved during the next smash I feel like Nintendo would be out of touch of to include massive character suggestion requested by the community that is like

So. Here's a bit of a different topic.

JRPGs. Which JRPG franchise do you think is the most likely to join the roster?

I know we have a lot, but I expect to get a lot more.

Golden sun, Super Mario RPG, Tales, SMT

There is a good chance there will be a "final boss" or at least an antagonist. But the smash writers behind story mode in each game have refused to give that role to a roster member. I think this is an oversight. Originally, sure it was a cool story actually with the roster being a kid's toys come to life. But now would be a good time to either double down on that or do something completely original but rooted in the roster.

Which leads to my question:

Who would you choose for Antagonist in the next Smash game's story mode, if you could pick only one, ie The True Villain.

Sephiroth? Ganondorf? Kirby? (Seriously tho that'd be hilarious), a new addition like King Boo or...

I think Space invaders being the true villain of the next smash story mode would be fitting knowing that it is the first villain in video game
Although I want CATS from zero wing to get that role because of how surprising and unexpected that would be also he pretty much is a space invader

 

[MrMcNuts]

If Sakurai isn’t involved during the next smash I feel like Nintendo would be out of touch of to include massive character suggestion requested by the community that is like

Depends on who's directing the next one.

Could be someone who focuses even more on Japanese reps so we could end up with picks like Takamaru, someone who's more open to popular western picks with low Japanese presence like Rayman, or someone who wants a balance, or wants to do their own thing. Nintendo will have a hand as well but I still feel it will be strongly dependant on who the director is gonna be

 

[osby]

View attachment 365656
So this is from Sakurai's latest interview for his YouTube channel. Wonder what it could mean for the next smash

You know, this kinda hits hard for me.

It's incredible what Sakurai achieved with the last two Smash games but spending near a decade of your life heavily involved in a single project is no joke, especially after his previous video detailing how he monetizes his work.

Regardless of what this means for the next Smash game, I really hope Sakurai takes it easy and glad he's easing off on game development. I'll miss his diection for sure if he doesn't come back but I'd rather have dev teams have a healthier life-work balance than each new entry adding crazy amounts of content.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Been years since I've been here, logged in out of boredom and realized it's been four years... Wow...
Maybe I'm feeling something, we are entering the time frame in which a new game is actually quite possible. Even though I believe we are going to see an Ultimate "Definitive Edition" before an actual new game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I know it would be sad to see it go but maybe Smash should retire too.

HAHAHAhahahahahahahaaaa! I'm sure Nintendo will get right on that.

Maybe I'm feeling something, we are entering the time frame in which a new game is actually quite possible. Even though I believe we are going to see an Ultimate "Definitive Edition" before an actual new game.

Thanks to the MK8D Booster Pass, I'm not willing to rule out SSBU just getting another Fighter's Pass out of nowhere.

 

[SPEN18]

There were parts of Sakurai's direction of Smash bros. that I really, really liked and other parts that I really, really disliked. So him potentially retiring is a double-edged sword for the series going forward. My hope, though, is that moving on from Sakurai will be overwhelmingly positive. It is an opportunity to take some risks and different directions; with some good fortune they will choose some of those and have them pay off. I don't buy into Sakurai being the only one who can capably make Smash; nothing of that sort would stop Nintendo, anyway. Lastly, I do think Sakurai's way of doing things was starting to grow stale in some ways, probably more than most would care to admit. I am thankful for and appreciative of Sakurai's efforts, but at the same time I am excited for the prospects of an entirely new direction for the series!

 

[MrMcNuts]

There were parts of Sakurai's direction of Smash bros. that I really, really liked and other parts that I really, really disliked. So him potentially retiring is a double-edged sword for the series going forward. My hope, though, is that moving on from Sakurai will be overwhelmingly positive. It is an opportunity to take some risks and different directions; with some good fortune they will choose some of those and have them pay off. I don't buy into Sakurai being the only one who can capably make Smash; nothing of that sort would stop Nintendo, anyway. Lastly, I do think Sakurai's way of doing things was starting to grow stale in some ways, probably more than most would care to admit. I am thankful for and appreciative of Sakurai's efforts, but at the same time I am excited for the prospects of an entirely new direction for the series!

Thank you!

Sakurai is talented as hell and has done a great job but acting like he's the only one who can do it or that every decision he makes is perfect is crazy worshiping.

There's plenty of things that can be improved. Better single player content, more open to region specific requests, better online, more experimental modes. Ultimate is great but there will always be new things to do or big characters to add

 

[Geno Boost]

What would you think about Harada being the next smash game director?

 

[Vintage Creep]

What would you think about Harada being the next smash game director?

Would make sense and be interesting but I bet it will be a "nobody", people will freak out and it will turn out they're great anyway

 

[AlRex]

Late to this conversation, but I’d prefer other genres get more priority over the already well-represented RPG or even platformer genres. Weirdly, the most interesting, big-name, and unique RPG options I can think of are mostly Western. Like, I think Fallout or even Warcraft has more to offer than, say, Tales Of. I admit I am American, though. The conversation on JRPGs often read to me like “oh, Bubsy and Gex are absolute must-haves!” I do like Chrono Trigger, though. I am just one guy, though, don’t worry about it.

 

[Stratos]

Late to this conversation, but I’d prefer other genres get more priority over the already well-represented RPG or even platformer genres. Weirdly, the most interesting, big-name, and unique RPG options I can think of are mostly Western. Like, I think Fallout or even Warcraft has more to offer than, say, Tales Of. I admit I am American, though. The conversation on JRPGs often read to me like “oh, Bubsy and Gex are absolute must-haves!” I do like Chrono Trigger, though. I am just one guy, though, don’t worry about it.

I didn't know about Bubsy until you mentioned it, but Gex and Crono from Chrono Trigger are two of the characters on my list that I'd like to see in future Super Smash Bros. games, and by the way I'm thinking of adding to the list of newcomers and the Bubsy.

 

[Staarih]

So a Japanese fan poll has Tinkaton, Clodsire and Meowscarada as the top 3 most popular Pokémon in S/V:

推しポケ人気投票結果発表🎉🎉🎉

投票期間：12月16日(金)〜 23日(金)
総投票数：177,829票

🥇デカヌチャン
🥈ドオー
🥉マスカーニャ

沢山の投票ありがとうございます🙇‍♂️
記事では皆さんからのコメントも紹介しているのでぜひチェックしてみてください👀#ポケモンSV https://t.co/rdmsxXjpPd pic.twitter.com/OWTKsNEhsL

— ポケモンSV攻略＠ゲームウィズ (@pokemon_GW) December 26, 2022

Fan poll's mean nothing yeah, and Tinkaton being #1 is no surprise. While Meowscarada is up there too, I'm still rooting for a non-starter whenever Pokémon gets its next newcomer haha.

 

[fogbadge]

So a Japanese fan poll has Tinkaton, Clodsire and Meowscarada as the top 3 most popular Pokémon in S/V:

推しポケ人気投票結果発表🎉🎉🎉

投票期間：12月16日(金)〜 23日(金)
総投票数：177,829票

🥇デカヌチャン
🥈ドオー
🥉マスカーニャ

沢山の投票ありがとうございます🙇‍♂️
記事では皆さんからのコメントも紹介しているのでぜひチェックしてみてください👀#ポケモンSV https://t.co/rdmsxXjpPd pic.twitter.com/OWTKsNEhsL

— ポケモンSV攻略＠ゲームウィズ (@pokemon_GW) December 26, 2022

Fan poll's mean nothing yeah, and Tinkaton being #1 is no surprise. While Meowscarada is up there too, I'm still rooting for a non-starter whenever Pokémon gets its next newcomer haha.

figures

 

[osby]

Fan poll's mean nothing yeah, and Tinkaton being #1 is no surprise. While Meowscarada is up there too, I'm still rooting for a non-starter whenever Pokémon gets its next newcomer haha.

While I really like Tinkaton, I actually don't see it being a particularly exciting newcomer in Smash, tbh. The whole hammer-wielding thing is more unique in Pokemon compared to a game where we already have Dedede and Ice Climbers.

Thank you!

Sakurai is talented as hell and has done a great job but acting like he's the only one who can do it or that every decision he makes is perfect is crazy worshiping.

There's plenty of things that can be improved. Better single player content, more open to region specific requests, better online, more experimental modes. Ultimate is great but there will always be new things to do or big characters to add

Online play and a good portion of character choices (DLC ones) have nothing to do with the director, though. Similarly, the quality of the single-player content is not consistent among Sakurai's games and has more to do with how much time they have to work on it.

Like, that's not a "don't you dare criticize Sakurai" post, it's just you won't get a revamp on everything from a mere director change.

Similarly, there's no guarantee that a lot of things we take for granted under his supervision won't get worse.

 

[Dinoman96]

Similarly, there's no guarantee that a lot of things we take for granted under his supervision won't get worse.

Just look at Star Wars and how people reacted to the non-Lucas sequel trilogy lol

 

[Ivander]

Thanks to the MK8D Booster Pass, I'm not willing to rule out SSBU just getting another Fighter's Pass out of nowhere.

I could see a stage pass or possibly some additions to the game modes. I'm not going to hope for characters unless Mario Kart 8 Deluxe gets some new characters. And even then, I'll only add a little bit.

What would you think about Harada being the next smash game director?

I'd be curious and interested. I mean, Harada has definitely managed some cool and crazy crossovers as well. And he has notability as well, which can help with getting crossovers.

That said, I think it will ultimately be up to Sakurai's decision, since he and Nintendo have been looking, even if so far, they haven't had luck.

So a Japanese fan poll has Tinkaton, Clodsire and Meowscarada as the top 3 most popular Pokémon in S/V:

推しポケ人気投票結果発表🎉🎉🎉

投票期間：12月16日(金)〜 23日(金)
総投票数：177,829票

🥇デカヌチャン
🥈ドオー
🥉マスカーニャ

沢山の投票ありがとうございます🙇‍♂️
記事では皆さんからのコメントも紹介しているのでぜひチェックしてみてください👀#ポケモンSV https://t.co/rdmsxXjpPd pic.twitter.com/OWTKsNEhsL

— ポケモンSV攻略＠ゲームウィズ (@pokemon_GW) December 26, 2022

Fan poll's mean nothing yeah, and Tinkaton being #1 is no surprise. While Meowscarada is up there too, I'm still rooting for a non-starter whenever Pokémon gets its next newcomer haha.

Scarlet and Violet definitely have a good list of Pokemon that would look great for Smash. That said, I can't see Meowscarada being passed up, not when you had Decidueye almost making it in and when people are really clamoring for a Grass Starter that isn't Bulbasaur/Ivysaur/Venusaur to get in Smash.

 

[Chuderz]

I personally could see this Tinkaton Pokemon making for a very fun Assist Trophy. I almost have nothing nice to say about Pokemon but there you go I guess.


On the topic of Sakurai's supposed search for a successor, I've remained of the opinion that I heavily doubt he leaves the series until he either gets too old for game development completely or dies. Based on the vibe I got from his Harada interview where he said something along the lines that one should work for as long as you can and in conjunction with just how much Smash probably means to him personally with its direct association to Iwata and it serving as the literal perfect platform to showcase his knowledge and attention to the smallest detail of video games in general, something he's clearly very passionate about, I just don't see how he can walk away from it truly.

People can say for this or that reason he should, could, or would but I'm still very skeptical regardless. It's just a vibe I get from him is all and there's nothing else to it really.

what do you think about Geolyte from Meteos in smash a character from a game franchise that was design by sakurai

I think this is a fascinating idea. I've been meaning to give Sakurai's Meteos an honest shot it's just the whole DS thing that makes it seem annoying to emulate. I've never looked into DS emulation too seriously because I just presumed it'd be difficult and annoying to get it working right.

I think as far as niche first-party characters go I've never really encountered a conversation about this little dude. I'm sure it's very likely discussed reasonably often enough but I just haven't seen it so it's a fun addition to the Sukapon, Takamaru, Mach Rider and Rhythm Heaven pick lineup.

 

[Perkilator]

Been years since I've been here, logged in out of boredom and realized it's been four years... Wow...
Maybe I'm feeling something, we are entering the time frame in which a new game is actually quite possible. Even though I believe we are going to see an Ultimate "Definitive Edition" before an actual new game.

If it is a port, here are the characters I’d like to see:

• Waluigi
• Bandana Waddle Dee
• Raven Beak
• Noah & Mio
• Dr. Eggman

 

[Geno Boost]

I personally could see this Tinkaton Pokemon making for a very fun Assist Trophy. I almost have nothing nice to say about Pokemon but there you go I guess.


On the topic of Sakurai's supposed search for a successor, I've remained of the opinion that I heavily doubt he leaves the series until he either gets too old for game development completely or dies. Based on the vibe I got from his Harada interview where he said something along the lines that one should work for as long as you can and in conjunction with just how much Smash probably means to him personally with its direct association to Iwata and it serving as the literal perfect platform to showcase his knowledge and attention to the smallest detail of video games in general, something he's clearly very passionate about, I just don't see how he can walk away from it truly.

People can say for this or that reason he should, could, or would but I'm still very skeptical regardless. It's just a vibe I get from him is all and there's nothing else to it really.



I think this is a fascinating idea. I've been meaning to give Sakurai's Meteos an honest shot it's just the whole DS thing that makes it seem annoying to emulate. I've never looked into DS emulation too seriously because I just presumed it'd be difficult and annoying to get it working right.

I think as far as niche first-party characters go I've never really encountered a conversation about this little dude. I'm sure it's very likely discussed reasonably often enough but I just haven't seen it so it's a fun addition to the Sukapon, Takamaru, Mach Rider and Rhythm Heaven pick lineup.

its actually a 3rd party Meteos had a game on xbox
but in smash the closest thing we have gotten were these which are based on Meteos characters

but i feel Geolyte is kinda in a similar situation to some HAL characters such as Lolo & Lala and Trax (Gameboy) which they werent present in any form in any Smash game but they are easy character to get company permission if sakurai wants to

 

[Garteam]

Thanks to the MK8D Booster Pass, I'm not willing to rule out SSBU just getting another Fighter's Pass out of nowhere.

I think it is too late in the Switch's life for this to feasibly happen. The lifespan for a console seems to be 7 years and the Switch will turn 6 in March. I imagine we'll know at least some concrete details by this time next year.

I guess we could see the Switch have a longer life or see a Fighter's Pass 3 announced early in 2023, but I think a deluxe port on Nintendo's next console is the more likely way that Ultimate gets more characters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I could see a stage pass or possibly some additions to the game modes. I'm not going to hope for characters unless Mario Kart 8 Deluxe gets some new characters. And even then, I'll only add a little bit.

MK is the opposite of Smash in that regard though.

In MK, Driversare almost no effort to make compared to the Courses.

Conversely, Fighters in Smash are way more work than Stages.

I think it is too late in the Switch's life for this to feasibly happen.

I mean, the Booster Pass is going on for another year still.

 

[SPEN18]

Similarly, there's no guarantee that a lot of things we take for granted under his supervision won't get worse.

There's always the opposing views of "it could get better" and "it could get worse." I think it's more nuanced and productive to view it as "an opportunity to take some calculated risks" if Sakurai does indeed retire from a full-time role as director.

 

[Chuderz]

its actually a 3rd party Meteos had a game on xbox
but in smash the closest thing we have gotten were these which are based on Meteos characters

but i feel Geolyte is kinda in a similar situation to some HAL characters such as Lolo & Lala and Trax (Gameboy) which they werent present in any form in any Smash game but they are easy character to get company permission if sakurai wants to

That's so weird to think Sakurai worked on something third-party other than that weird Beetle King thing. I thought Nintendo published Meteos and therefore owned the property? I have no idea honestly but I guess I'll take your word for it. I guess Bamco owns it then?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You know what would be cool? A new Mysterious Murasame Castle game made by PlatinumGames.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So a Japanese fan poll has Tinkaton, Clodsire and Meowscarada as the top 3 most popular Pokémon in S/V:

推しポケ人気投票結果発表🎉🎉🎉

投票期間：12月16日(金)〜 23日(金)
総投票数：177,829票

🥇デカヌチャン
🥈ドオー
🥉マスカーニャ

沢山の投票ありがとうございます🙇‍♂️
記事では皆さんからのコメントも紹介しているのでぜひチェックしてみてください👀#ポケモンSV https://t.co/rdmsxXjpPd pic.twitter.com/OWTKsNEhsL

— ポケモンSV攻略＠ゲームウィズ (@pokemon_GW) December 26, 2022

Fan poll's mean nothing yeah, and Tinkaton being #1 is no surprise. While Meowscarada is up there too, I'm still rooting for a non-starter whenever Pokémon gets its next newcomer haha.

The only Pokemon from gen 9 i can see ever getting a smash rep is Scream tail.

 

[Gengar84]

The only Pokemon from gen 9 i can see ever getting a smash rep is Scream tail.

Scream Tail might be a bit tricky as an echo since it’s much larger than

Spoiler

Jigglypuff

and has some different physical traits it might want to use for attacks. (Not sure how long we should keep details about new Pokémon in spoiler tags but just being safe).

I think there’s a good chance for another Pokémon rep in the next Smash but it depends if Gen 10 is out by then. They could also decide to include a Pokémon from an older generation instead of just going with the newest game.

 

[Geno Boost]

That's so weird to think Sakurai worked on something third-party other than that weird Beetle King thing. I thought Nintendo published Meteos and therefore owned the property? I have no idea honestly but I guess I'll take your word for it. I guess Bamco owns it then?

i am not sure if namco own them but Q entertaiment made these games and it had different publisher for each game so i am guessing Q owns them

 

[Dan Quixote]

The Sakurai retirement announcement obviously brings up a lot of questions about how Smash will be handled in the future but that's hella open-ended and could mean anything depending on who's hired or if Sakurai still has some kind of supervisor role.

nah what I'm more interested in is what this means for the release date of the next Smash. If they have to find a new director, who knows how many years it could take for the next one to be made? Do you think they could even release some SSBU Deluxe or a surprise third Fighters Pass to hold people over during the meantime?

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I personally could see this Tinkaton Pokemon making for a very fun Assist Trophy. I almost have nothing nice to say about Pokemon but there you go I guess.

You mean Pokeball

 

[CommanderZaktan]

With Sakurai bring half retired and rumors about a new console, will it be a port of Ultimate with few new things or a brand new game? Either way, here's the fighters I want to be in Smash.

Raven Beak
Noah (Mio as his echo fighter)
A Pokemon from gen 8 or 9
Tails or Dr. Eggman
And Crash Bandicoot

 

[Perkilator]

nah what I'm more interested in is what this meansfor the release date of the next Smash. If they have to find a new director, who knows how many years it could take for the next one to be made? Do you think they could even release some SSBU Deluxe or a surprise third Fighters Pass to hold people over during the meantime?

I think a DX edition would be a good way to hold people over.