Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SPEN18]

Also, do we know if the video thumbnails and such are even designed by Sakurai himself or could they just be done by his staff/editors?

 

[smashkirby]

Forgive me for going off-topic, but has anyone heard anything about the likes of Stanley appearing in the Mario Bros. movie?

No joke, I think (at this point) he's the final prominent Mario/DK arcade-era character who has yet to appear in any capacity here.

 

[Laniv]

Is this a bad time to ask if there are any fish characters you want in smash? Non anthropomorphic

Does Big Man count?

Forgive me for going off-topic, but has anyone heard anything about the likes of Stanley appearing in the Mario Bros. movie?

No joke, I think (at this point) he's the final prominent Mario/DK arcade-era character who has yet to appear in any capacity here.

plot twist: he's the Charles Martinet cameo

 

[HyperSomari64]

Forgive me for going off-topic, but has anyone heard anything about the likes of Stanley appearing in the Mario Bros. movie?

No joke, I think (at this point) he's the final prominent Mario/DK arcade-era character who has yet to appear in any capacity here.

Fun Fact: It's more probable that Bluster Kong make a cameo appearance before The Bugman.

 

[SPEN18]

What about Gyarados from Pokemon? Isn't that creature a fish?

Not a bad choice for a pkmn but there are other Kanto mons I'd prefer. Also if they were somehow able to make the "giant snake" body type work in Smash then I think Rayquaza would be cooler personally.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Forgive me for going off-topic, but has anyone heard anything about the likes of Stanley appearing in the Mario Bros. movie?

No joke, I think (at this point) he's the final prominent Mario/DK arcade-era character who has yet to appear in any capacity here.

I DO remember seeing a fake leak suggesting he'd make an appearance, but other than that, no.

 

[Ivander]

Forgive me for going off-topic, but has anyone heard anything about the likes of Stanley appearing in the Mario Bros. movie?

No joke, I think (at this point) he's the final prominent Mario/DK arcade-era character who has yet to appear in any capacity here.

I DO remember seeing a fake leak suggesting he'd make an appearance, but other than that, no.

It'd be incredibly strange if Stanley did not appear at all, let alone a cameo, in the movie, especially when the movie has alot of DK cameos including possibly Kiddy Kong and Swanky Kong and is also supposed to feature Foreman Spike.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm assuming the point of the vid is that not everybody's gonna enjoy the same things as you...

It's more "Don't be so fixated on the past, man!"

 

[Geno Boost]

Is this a bad time to ask if there are any fish characters you want in smash? Non anthropomorphic

Ecco the dolphin and Jonathan Jones from SMRPG

 

[smashkirby]

Okay, I apologize for changing the subject (again), but this tweet caught my eye. The... unbearable-to-look-at mistakes aside, I have to admit Peach's line in the newest trailer (about various galaxies and a wide universe) DID give me the slightest pause when I first heard it...

Ok but what if she’s means 😳 pic.twitter.com/XYk0NqRQSq

— farmerchad (@ChadArn03462126) November 30, 2022

 

[fogbadge]

I think Garchomp counts as a fish since it’s a shark. It would be a pretty cool Smash character and the most realistic choice for a fish I can think of. Not sure if it counts as anthropomorphic or not.

i suppose not but they are rather easy to translate into smash and i was wanting to go for more unusual fighters

What about Gyarados from Pokemon? Isn't that creature a fish?

he's meant to be a dragon so not really

Does Big Man count?

ay ay (i guess he does)

Jonathan Jones from SMRPG

i said non anthropomorphic

 

[Dinoman96]

Okay, I apologize for changing the subject (again), but this tweet caught my eye. The... unbearable-to-look-at mistakes aside, I have to admit Peach's line in the newest trailer (about various galaxies and a wide universe) DID give me the slightest pause when I first heard it...

Ok but what if she’s means 😳 pic.twitter.com/XYk0NqRQSq

— farmerchad (@ChadArn03462126) November 30, 2022

What's Killer Instinct doing there? It hasn't been a Nintendo IP since 2002.

 

[Oracle Link]

I want to expand the Handy Dandy Kirby Newcomer List!
Do you know any Major, Non One shot Characters from Kirby?
I already included these:
Bandana Waddle Dee
Whispy Woods
Kracko
Magolor
Dark Matter
Morpho Knight
Gooey (Kirby SEMI Echo)
Galacta Knight (meta Knight Echo)
Newest Member: Adeline/Ado (They are both the Same Person)

Which other ones do you think make sense?
BTW Marx isnt in as hes really Divisive some people think he should be number 4 while others dont want him at all!

 

[HyperSomari64]

Should i include Adeline on That List?

She's cute so Ado deserves to be here.

 

[Oracle Link]

She's cute so Ado deserves to be here.

Okay true she had two Boss Battles and was a Dreamfriend in Star Allies + a Hat in Dream Buffet so yeah okay i include her!

 

[fogbadge]

I want to expand the Handy Dandy Kirby Newcomer List!
Do you know any Major, Non One shot Characters from Kirby?
I already included these:
Bandana Waddle Dee
Whispy Woods
Kracko
Magolor
Dark Matter
Morpho Knight
Gooey (Kirby Echo)
Galacta Knight (meta Knight Echo)

Which other ones do you think make sense?
Should i include Adeline on That List? Or Do You Agree that she should be an Assist Trophy?
BTW Marx isnt in as hes really Divisive some people think he should be number 4 while others dsont want him at all!

Gooey won’t work as an echo

 

[Oracle Link]

Gooey won’t work as an echo

True i shouldve said Semi Echo!
After all he Licks instead of inhales and needs diffent animations cus no limbs!

 

[fogbadge]

True i shouldve said Semi Echo!
After all he Licks instead of inhales and needs diffent animations cus no limbs!

Basically everything that makes Kirby’s moveset

 

[Oracle Link]

Basically everything that makes Kirby’s moveset

??? Outside of The Animation Changes For _Tons Of Things There Really isnt anything Kirby Can Do That Gooey Cant Keep in Mind he was Player 2 In Dreamland 3 and had the exact same moveset as Kirby in that Game! Him Using his Tongue like a Whip aswell as His Dark Lasers only were added in Star allies which is a Game i Somewhat ignore when it comes to the Handy Dandy Newcomer List!

 

[fogbadge]

??? Outside of The Animation Changes For _Tons Of Things There Really isnt anything Kirby Can Do That Gooey Cant Keep in Mind he was Player 2 In Dreamland 3 and had the exact same moveset as Kirby in that Game! Him Using his Tongue like a Whip aswell as His Dark Lasers only were added in Star allies which is a Game i Somewhat ignore when it comes to the Handy Dandy Newcomer List!

Kirbys moveset uses a lot of hand and feet attacks and copy abilities gooey didn’t have access to

 

[smashkirby]

What's Killer Instinct doing there? It hasn't been a Nintendo IP since 2002.

Yeah, this was what I meant about this list being a bit hard to look at. There's... a lot that's off about it.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Okay, I apologize for changing the subject (again), but this tweet caught my eye. The... unbearable-to-look-at mistakes aside, I have to admit Peach's line in the newest trailer (about various galaxies and a wide universe) DID give me the slightest pause when I first heard it...

Ok but what if she’s means 😳 pic.twitter.com/XYk0NqRQSq

— farmerchad (@ChadArn03462126) November 30, 2022

I think it's just a reference to Super Mario Galaxy. Apparently one of those McDonald's leaks suggested Lumas would appear in the film.

 

[Oracle Link]

Kirbys moveset uses a lot of hand and feet attacks and copy abilities gooey didn’t have access to

Again i mentioned Animation Changes! He Can Morph his Body or use his Tongue For Those!
But Copy Abilitys? Just Because Gooey Couldnt use them in the PAst Doesnt Mean He Cant Use Them Now! Especially cus Smash Does Stuff like this A Lot!

 

[fogbadge]

Again i mentioned Animation Changes! He Can Morph his Body or use his Tongue For Those!
But Copy Abilitys? Just Because Gooey Couldnt use them in the PAst Doesnt Mean He Cant Use Them Now! Especially cus Smash Does Stuff like this A Lot!

If you have to invent things for a character to do in order to make them an echo then they shouldn’t be an echo

 

[Chuderz]

Cloud is still a solid character. He's my highest GSP character and I use the whole roster. He has the best out of shield. He can cross up with down tilt right after his fair which is already impossible to punish. And if I remember correctly his limit blade beam goes through all projectiles but the item ones that can be caught.

Edit: And he was my highest gsp character before the buffs too

Absolutely still love the character and how he plays hence why he's my main. Strong and fast with a disjoint, 3 moves that spike, an Up-Special that can be frequently called upon in combat, a projectile and a system that allows him to buff his entire kit for a period of time. On top of all of that the Limit-Charge always gives him something to do during Star KOs or camping. Oh and I love sliding Down-Tilts and Cloud's is the gold standard.

Cloud is an amazing character both in terms of tier lists and just in general how he feels to play. I'm also nostalgic for his game so that helps. One my most unpopular Smash opinions is that I'd rather have the entire party (plus Sephiroth) of FF7 get into the game before moving on to other Final Fantasy titles. That'll never happen but if you gave me a magic wand that'd grant me that wish I'd wave it very exuberantly.

 

[Oracle Link]

If you have to invent things for a character to do in order to make them an echo then they shouldn’t be an echo

Ah okay Say that to Daisy and Dark Samus aswell as probably some others!

 

[fogbadge]

Ah okay Say that to Daisy and Dark Samus aswell as probably some others!

Well I would say that to daisy anything to get rid of her

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ah okay Say that to Daisy and Dark Samus aswell as probably some others!

...Neither were really changed up to make work? They're pretty much the same bodyshape to begin with.

Nor was any Echo, really. They're all similar in body shape and abilities enough to make work. No extra details was ever needed to make it work.

The more you need to change a character to fit the Echo label, the more they don't really fit. There's very few who can borderline work, but many don't as is. Gooey at best could use Kirby as a framework to be an outright semi-clone(due to too many differences) or basically not really a type of clone for the label(I.E. Ness, who used Mario as a base. They share nothing in common bar some conceptual similarities and a similar model shape in the first game).

Remember, Echo is not a synonym for any kind of clone. It is not the "new clone". It's actually a unique term used for a very specific clone type newly created in Ultimate. The other kinds of clones work differently and always have. In fact, the only time we had a weird Echo was Lucina, as she was downsized at first to become a costume for Marth. She was grandfathered into the Echo slot because her model was already redesigned to be close enough to Marth for it. This doesn't generally happen otherwise anyway. You aren't going to see this kind of thing besides fangames, since they have more leeway development-wise. They aren't using the same guidelines as Smash does.

 

[silenthunder]

Absolutely still love the character and how he plays hence why he's my main. Strong and fast with a disjoint, 3 moves that spike, an Up-Special that can be frequently called upon in combat, a projectile and a system that allows him to buff his entire kit for a period of time. On top of all of that the Limit-Charge always gives him something to do during Star KOs or camping. Oh and I love sliding Down-Tilts and Cloud's is the gold standard.

Cloud is an amazing character both in terms of tier lists and just in general how he feels to play. I'm also nostalgic for his game so that helps. One my most unpopular Smash opinions is that I'd rather have the entire party (plus Sephiroth) of FF7 get into the game before moving on to other Final Fantasy titles. That'll never happen but if you gave me a magic wand that'd grant me that wish I'd wave it very exuberantly.

I think Tifa is in demand but Black Mage and Lightning (and I think there is character called Terra that I know absolutely nothing about) are also very popular. You are lucky you got sepheroth in my opinion. 7 is very relevant now though but we aren’t getting more than 1 more rep.

 

[Megadoomer]

I think Tifa is in demand but Black Mage and Lightning (and I think there is character called Terra that I know absolutely nothing about) are also very popular. You are lucky you got sepheroth in my opinion. 7 is very relevant now though but we aren’t getting more than 1 more rep.

Terra's arguably the main character of Final Fantasy 6 - at least, she's the one who represents it in games like Dissidia.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Terra also unofficially works as broad stand in for many of the earlier FF titles to a degree; often seen as the mascot for the most popular Final Fantasy game (in the West) from the 8 bit/16 bit era (and in fan circles a title still competes with the likes of VII for the best game in the series to this day).

 

[Ivander]

I think Tifa is in demand but Black Mage and Lightning (and I think there is character called Terra that I know absolutely nothing about) are also very popular. You are lucky you got sepheroth in my opinion. 7 is very relevant now though but we aren’t getting more than 1 more rep.

Tifa's mostly in demand because many expect her to be another FF7 rep over the rest of the FF games getting a character. And her remake design easily clears up any previous issues with her original design.

And yeah, Terra is easily the most popular main character out of the Final Fantasy 1 to Final Fantasy 6 line-up, although Bartz and Cecil aren't too far behind. And Bartz was noted alongside Terra when Sakurai was talking about Final Fantasy reps.

 

[fogbadge]

Terra's arguably the main character of Final Fantasy 6 - at least, she's the one who represents it in games like Dissidia.

it is worth noting that tera was picked for dissidia due to her connection to kefka. normua's theme for the character selection which he arguably didn't stick to

 

[dream1ng]

If we get a FF character outside of 7, I'd give the odds to Terra.

If we get another (original) FF7 character, though that seems like kind of a stretch, I'd be shocked if it wasn't Tifa.

And if Square somehow manages to twist Sakurai's arm, which I very much doubt, maybe we'd get the newest protag of the time.

 

[Ivander]

it is worth noting that tera was picked for dissidia due to her connection to kefka. normua's theme for the character selection which he arguably didn't stick to

Obviously the theme was only with the first game and later games simply added fan/developer popular characters.

 

[fogbadge]

Obviously the theme was only with the first game and later games simply added fan/developer popular characters.

i was meaning in the first game

 

[Ivander]

i was meaning in the first game

Aside from Shantotto and Gabranth, which main characters didn't fit with the villain chosen?

 

[fogbadge]

Aside from Shantotto and Gabranth, which main characters didn't fit with the villain chosen?

Well in terms of going with heroes and villains with strong connections there are some oddities. For example the cloud of darkness is largely a force rather than a character and doesn’t turn up until the end I’m sure it had much of a connection with anyone. And then there’s squal and ultimacia, granted the latter was the grand master mind controlling many things but squall had a much bigger connection with edea. And then the wol is pretty much an original character so any connection he may or may not have had with garland is largely meaningless.

 

[Ivander]

Well in terms of going with heroes and villains with strong connections there are some oddities. For example the cloud of darkness is largely a force rather than a character and doesn’t turn up until the end I’m sure it had much of a connection with anyone. And then there’s squal and ultimacia, granted the latter was the grand master mind controlling many things but squall had a much bigger connection with edea. And then the wol is pretty much an original character so any connection he may or may not have had with garland is largely meaningless.

The Warrior of Light and Onion Knight were chosen by the crystals(in Warrior of Light's scenario, he was chosen by Cosmos) in their games to fight against the wave of darkness coming to consume the world, with Garland becoming the host of Chaos in FF1(and in Dissidia's plot, eventually become Chaos) and the Cloud of Darkness being the personification of the wave of darkness.

And a very Very big note about Edea. She was possessed against her will by Ultimecia, who was trying to destroy SEED before it destroyed her. And Squall is a member of SEED and would eventually learn SEED's true goal of defeating Ultimecia. Afterwards when both Ultimecia and Squall go back to the past after Squall and the rest of SEED defeats her, Ultimecia possesses Edea and Squall passes onto Edea the knowledge of SEED's goal, which creates the cycle for Final Fantasy 8.

So that's the big connection between Squall and Ultimecia, is that Ultimecia tried to destroy SEED before it destroyed her and her possessing Edea and starting her actions against SEED would start the cycle of Squall and his comrades eventually coming to defeat Ultimecia, which ultimately(no pun intended) creates the neverending loop of defeat for Ultimecia. The Edea that was fought by Squall and Co. was Ultimecia using and controlling her body, which would result in "Edea's Corpse" being an Alternate costume for Ultimecia in Duodecim.

 

[silenthunder]

The Warrior of Light and Onion Knight were chosen by the crystals(in Warrior of Light's scenario, he was chosen by Cosmos) in their games to fight against the wave of darkness coming to consume the world, with Garland becoming the host of Chaos in FF1(and in Dissidia's plot, eventually become Chaos) and the Cloud of Darkness being the personification of the wave of darkness.

And a very Very big note about Edea. She was possessed against her will by Ultimecia, who was trying to destroy SEED before it destroyed her. And Squall is a member of SEED and would eventually learn SEED's true goal of defeating Ultimecia. Afterwards when both Ultimecia and Squall go back to the past after Squall and the rest of SEED defeats her, Ultimecia possesses Edea and Squall passes onto Edea the knowledge of SEED's goal, which creates the cycle for Final Fantasy 8.

So that's the big connection between Squall and Ultimecia, is that Ultimecia tried to destroy SEED before it destroyed her and her possessing Edea and starting her actions against SEED would start the cycle of Squall and his comrades eventually coming to defeat Ultimecia, which ultimately(no pun intended) creates the neverending loop of defeat for Ultimecia. The Edea that was fought by Squall and Co. was Ultimecia using and controlling her body, which would result in "Edea's Corpse" being an Alternate costume for Ultimecia in Duodecim.

What’s up with foreign games having a bad seed. In Gungrave the SEED is also bad. Doesn’t make sense to me because fruit comes from seeds.

Edit: All good things come from seeds really