Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[CapitaineCrash]

On the Xenoblade 3 topic, personally I'd rather have Mio. I mean, Noah isn't even really the protagonist, the game has more an ensemble cast (unlike Xeno 1 where Shulk was clearly the protagonist and 2 in Rex and the Aegis). Mio also has a more unique weapon and I really like her design.

Also I really hope that Elma gets back into the spotlight. I wasn't a Elma supporter before, but I've played Xenoblade chronicles X this summer before 3 released and I felt in love with the game and his world. I know that some will say that it's too many representation for a "niche" franchise but if next game we have Elma + a Xenoblade X stage (I know many people want New Los Angeles and I think that's fair because you pass so much time there, but Sylvalum and Primordia are just too gorgeous to pass on imo) + an Aionios stage and a bunch of Xenoblade X and 3 music I would be so happy.

 

[fogbadge]

On the Xenoblade 3 topic, personally I'd rather have Mio. I mean, Noah isn't even really the protagonist, the game has more an ensemble cast (unlike Xeno 1 where Shulk was clearly the protagonist and 2 in Rex and the Aegis). Mio also has a more unique weapon and I really like her design.

Also I really hope that Elma gets back into the spotlight. I wasn't a Elma supporter before, but I've played Xenoblade chronicles X this summer before 3 released and I felt in love with the game and his world. I know that some will say that it's too many representation for a "niche" franchise but if next game we have Elma + a Xenoblade X stage (I know many people want New Los Angeles and I think that's fair because you pass so much time there, but Sylvalum and Primordia are just too gorgeous to pass on imo) + an Aionios stage and a bunch of Xenoblade X and 3 music I would be so happy.

well I seem to recall monolith said they were open to a second X game

 

[HyperSomari64]

Since using characters as bases is the new thing, i'm going with non video game characters for this:

• Goku: Ryu
• Shrek: Wario
• SpongeBob: Villager + Squirtle

And those are all the characters i have in mind. Any other suggestions?

 

[Gengar84]

Since using characters as bases is the new thing, i'm going with non video game characters for this:

• Goku: Ryu
• Shrek: Wario
• SpongeBob: Villager + Squirtle

And those are all the characters. Any other suggestions?

Spider-Man - Sheik
Predator - Samus
Alien - Ridley
Leonardo - Pit
Raphael - Little Mac
Donatello - Richter
Michelangelo - Ken
The Undertaker - Simon
The Rock - Terry
Ichigo - Cloud
Edward Elric - Robin
Yu-Gi - Robin
Allmight - Terry

 

[HyperSomari64]

The Rock - Terry

KOF All-Stars says something different:

 

[Aligo]

Peter Griffin would be based off of K rool for sure.

 

[Gengar84]

Peter Griffin would be based off of K rool for sure.

That one already exists, funny enough .

- YouTube

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A few of the characters I named already have mods over the models I brought up too.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Peter Griffin would be based off of K rool for sure.

Plus Homer Simpson as his Echo Fighter.

 

[Aligo]

That one already exists, funny enough .

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

A few of the characters I named already have mods over the models I brought up too.

Imagine if the final smash is Peter trapping the foe in a cutaway gag, where they die of cringe.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well I voted for Cloud on the ballot and Crash. If I had known they were gonna keep using it for such long time afterward I would have voted for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more characters I like but at least Cloud and Crash were my most earnest requests although I definitely would have thrown in Spyro and Master Chief too for the show of support. I still very much hope Crash's fanbase will migrate to Spyro if Crash gets into a Smash game because the only way Spyro is getting in is through sheer western support. I also regret not showing Sceptile love when it mattered most but it wouldn't have mattered anyways because the support died down massively anyway.

I still stand by Sceptile or Elma would have been much better choices than Corrin. I don't understand any other way other than rank-and-file bias for Fire Emblem from the Smash team for them to have opted for Corrin. They say it was because they wanted a character from a new game but Sceptile and Elma both met that criteria at the time and if you discounted Sceptile for his new game being a remake that still leaves Elma which would have helped rep Xenoblade further. She would have been more different too plus she's a black chick which is double representation points.

We literally have zero black women in Smash and Nintendo is sitting on 2 first-party ones that serve as notable requests within their respective communities. Time's up Nintendo haha.

Black woman representative would work with Elma yes, I also liked the idea of Skyward Sword Impa for this reason even if she's not typically black. Twintelle from ARMS would by far by the best choice for this tho, but her hair functioning as her "ARMS" would basically make an ARMS representative moot.

Also, yes that DK moveset rework video is amazing. I wish they did just that to his moveset, it's absolutely right in every way.

About the next Xenoblade character, y'all give Noah flack for nothing. His weapon switch gimmick would make him a great representative of all the different weapons and characters we have in XBC3. He's definitely interesting enough to warrant inclusion.

 

[Ivander]

Since base models were mentioned, I've been thinking, which base models do people think would be used for certain characters?

Here are a few I would go with.
Isaac: Robin

How fitting...

 

[Aligo]

About the next Xenoblade character, y'all give Noah flack for nothing. His weapon switch gimmick would make him a great representative of all the different weapons and characters we have in XBC3. He's definitely interesting enough to warrant inclusion.

I think the problem is that weapon switching isn't really unique to Noah. In fact it is something Elma can also do. Most of the class movesets are also recycled from xenoblade 1 and particularly 2, which had a somewhat comparable system, while the weapons Elma uses aren't really present in the rest of the series. His signature weapon, the lucky seven, is more or less the monado, so no dice there. Contrast with Elma's dual swords, and guns whose closest equivalent would be the pit twinblades and bayo, but the difference between the two is much larger.

The potential trump card for Noah would be using the fusion ability. But once again that kind of gimmick already exists in smash while something like a skell mech does not.

All in all the main points against Noah is that he doesn't bring anything new to the table. I can see why people prefer not Mio as an XC3 rep for that reason, though she still has some of those issues.

(He is also boring visually compared to the other options, which may also factor in to peoples decisions)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

but her hair functioning as her "ARMS" would basically make an ARMS representative moot.

No?

Twintelle is a character from ARMS. Her hair being her weapon doesn't change that. Where is this faulty logic coming from?

 

[Aligo]

Yes, we already have one character with ARMS as arms, so it is no longer an issue.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No?

Twintelle is a character from ARMS. Her hair being her weapon doesn't change that. Where is this faulty logic coming from?

Leave me alone I never played this game, I don't know what the **** am talking about. Respectfully.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Those circle blade things (a shuriken?) that she has.

Chakram.

 

[Gengar84]

I agree that it would have been weird to have the only ARMS rep not actually use their arms, but now that Minmin is in, there should be no issue in Twintelle as a second rep.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah I also don't get all the hate for Noah. I don't really see anything wrong with him: he uses a sword, so what? There's no guarantee that a different weapon type or some wacky gimmick is going to make for a more fun character in the end.

The problem with X (and hence Elma) is being stuck on the Wii U with worse sales than 2/DE in addition to being marketed as a side game to the main trilogy. I just don't think they'll view Elma as being as integral to the series as the Xeno3 characters, but of course it is pending getting more word on the performance of Xeno3 (though it seems like it's done pretty well so far). It's not completely hopeless for Elma as they could make an X sequel at some point, but right now I don't view her as particularly competitive for a potential Xeno slot. I'd like a stage or AT or something from X, though.

Overall, I wouldn't mind seeing another Xenoblade rep in the next Smash and I do like the series, but to be honest I'm leaning towards preferring they skip it next base game. I just have other priorities in terms of characters I'd rather see first, though 3 reps for XBC doesn't seem too outlandish so, as I said, it wouldn't be a terrible outcome. I don't really want a duo character out of it, though (perhaps that possibility is contributing to me having less positive feelings about the whole thing). We also don't know how the timeline for Smash development will line up with Xeno3 specifically, but likely the next Smash will be far enough away from this year's XBC3 release for it not to look like blatant shill. I'm waiting on harder numbers on the overall performance of the game, though.

Oh, and yeah, I was in the class of people asking for Rex over Pyra/Mythra, but unfortunately I'm not optimistic about Rex's chances.

 

[Aligo]

Yeah I also don't get all the hate for Noah. I don't really see anything wrong with him: he uses a sword, so what? There's no guarantee that a different weapon type or some wacky gimmick is going to make for a more fun character in the end.

The problem with X (and hence Elma) is being stuck on the Wii U with worse sales than 2/DE in addition to being marketed as a side game to the main trilogy. I just don't think they'll view Elma as being as integral to the series as the Xeno3 characters, but of course it is pending getting more word on the performance of Xeno3 (though it seems like it's done pretty well so far). It's not completely hopeless for Elma as they could make an X sequel at some point, but right now I don't view her as particularly competitive for a potential Xeno slot. I'd like a stage or AT or something from X, though.

Oh, and yeah, I was in the class of people asking for Rex over Pyra/Mythra, but unfortunately I'm not optimistic about Rex's chances.

Noah isn't hated, he is just in more extreme version of the bandanna Dee situation, where he makes the most sense as it were but is far less interesting than the other candidates.

The best way of incopating rex while not changing the moveset too much would be giving aegis a zair/tether in the form of anchor shot. The zair could attach to terrain like melee tethers and the grab could work in a unique way where with Mythra the foe is pulled in as normal, while Pyra would be pulled towards the opponent instead. It can be balanced by adding Rex as a hurtbox during the move.

Edit: I wouldn't mind xenoblade skipping a new rep, especially since it gives the opportunity to rework Shulk. Actually, what does everyone think of a Shulk rework?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The most I see for Rex is being part of the background akin to Pokemon Trainer, which would be some neat work, even for so little. His core thing, Pyra and Mythra, are already playable, after all.

Speaking of which why are Xenoblade fans gunning for the dude anyway? The cat chick brings way more to the table. She's a lady with cat ears and her weapon isn't represented in Smash currently. Those circle blade things (a shuriken?) that she has.

Chakrams. They're seen in quite a few works these days. The way they're used is also pretty unique. They have some properties of a Boomerang, but way sharper, and also can be used in a general slashing motion.

A good example is Tira from Soul Calibur. She uses them in tons of combos, etc. Think of it like holding out a shield-style blade with how they can slash with it. It can also be used to punch with, providing a very easy moveset and style, even without looking at canon moves for said character(I never played Xenoblade Chronicles, mind you. Nor any of its games. So I don't really know the exact animations, but those are just loose ideas I have without directly watching videos).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakram Wikipedia also has some extensive origin information, which may help with some ideas~

 

[fogbadge]

(He is also boring visually compared to the other options, which may also factor in to peoples decisions)

well if its sakurai thinks he's boring that'll affect him

 

[SPEN18]

Noah isn't hated, he is just in more extreme version of the bandanna Dee situation, where he makes the most sense as it were but is far less interesting than the other candidates.

The best way of incopating rex while not changing the moveset too much would be giving aegis a zair/tether in the form of anchor shot. The zair could attach to terrain like melee tethers and the grab could work in a unique way where with Mythra the foe is pulled in as normal, while Pyra would be pulled towards the opponent instead. It can be balanced by adding Rex as a hurtbox during the move.

Yeah, hate was an exaggeration. I disagree with him being inherently less interesting, though.
I presume it's primarily the weapon type that makes people turn away. If it was really that big of a deal then they could just pull a Byleth and let him use the other weapons (it'd make more sense than Byleth anyway), but I don't think it's that big of a deal. Noah was the obvious lead in the marketing and I'm sure they could cook up something great for him; I don't blame people for trying to be creative but in this case I don't really think it's necessary since Xeno3 has enough interesting mechanics on its own that could potentially be applied to Noah.

As for Rex, I'd be alright with him making more cameos in Pyra's moveset, or appearing in the background more. It's better than nothing. But it doesn't feel quite right since in the source material Rex is the one you're actually controlling.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As for Rex, I'd be alright with him making more cameos in Pyra's moveset, or appearing in the background more. It's better than nothing. But it doesn't feel quite right since in the source material Rex is the one you're actually controlling.

It's kind of similar to PT in that regard. You never actually control the Pokemon, just the Trainer outright. Of course, it's more on a technical level even then. You still give them commands, etc.

Nonetheless, they've pulled the reverse before, so him being in the background still works within the context of Smash itself. But unlike PT, he has actual proper ways to fight, so having him separate with Pyra and Mythra showing up mainly in taunts/victories could be fun too. Much like how Chrom happens to now be playable and shows up as an NPC among another character. You could also have him in the background, but have him playable like I said above. Whether or not that'd have been as interesting as him being part of the Blades' overall moveset is another story.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Leave me alone I never played this game, I don't know what the **** am talking about. Respectfully.

You okay?

 

[SPEN18]

It's kind of similar to PT in that regard. You never actually control the Pokemon, just the Trainer outright. Of course, it's more on a technical level even then. You still give them commands, etc.

Nonetheless, they've pulled the reverse before, so him being in the background still works within the context of Smash itself. But unlike PT, he has actual proper ways to fight, so having him separate with Pyra and Mythra showing up mainly in taunts/victories could be fun too. Much like how Chrom happens to now be playable and shows up as an NPC among another character. You could also have him in the background, but have him playable like I said above. Whether or not that'd have been as interesting as him being part of the Blades' overall moveset is another story.

Yeah we could get Rex as a separate playable; he could also use other blades that are important to him like Roc. But at that point I'd simply prefer another unique character from another series rather than having two from XBC2. If I had my way it would be the one single "Rex with Pyra" fighter, but it seems they couldn't get that to work properly. Also, unlike Chrom, I don't think Rex could be made an Echo of anyone, which further hurts his chances of making it as a standalone.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah we could get Rex as a separate playable; he could also use other blades that are important to him like Roc. But at that point I'd simply prefer another unique character from another series rather than having two from XBC2. If I had my way it would be the one single "Rex with Pyra" fighter, but it seems they couldn't get that to work properly. Also, unlike Chrom, I don't think Rex could be made an Echo of anyone, which further hurts his chances of making it as a standalone.

That too. He has to be unique. Thus, I feel just having him in PT is a pretty good compromise for the fans.

At least we got the costume. Meaning he's a Mii Swordsman Echo Fighter

I don't think it was just that got Chrom in either. He was outright considered and in the old project plans. And then Roy came along who basically is like a cross between Marth and Ike somewhat, which worked well. Rex also doesn't have that factor, which only hurts him more in general.

 

[Aligo]

I'd unironically want Zavok as an echo fighter of incineroar. At least sonic boom was an amusing bad game.

Then funky Kong as a DK echo.

 

[Perkilator]

I'd unironically want Zavok as an echo fighter of incineroar. At least sonic boom was an amusing bad game.

Then funky Kong as a DK echo.

Zavok wasn't in Sonic Boom, though.

 

[Aligo]

Oh yeah, it was lost world right? Anyway funky vs zavok would be the ultimate battle between good and evil.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Yeah, hate was an exaggeration. I disagree with him being inherently less interesting, though.
I presume it's primarily the weapon type that makes people turn away. If it was really that big of a deal then they could just pull a Byleth and let him use the other weapons (it'd make more sense than Byleth anyway), but I don't think it's that big of a deal. Noah was the obvious lead in the marketing and I'm sure they could cook up something great for him; I don't blame people for trying to be creative but in this case I don't really think it's necessary since Xeno3 has enough interesting mechanics on its own that could potentially be applied to Noah.

As for Rex, I'd be alright with him making more cameos in Pyra's moveset, or appearing in the background more. It's better than nothing. But it doesn't feel quite right since in the source material Rex is the one you're actually controlling.

The marketing billed the two as co leads. It really isn’t like Noah had a disproportionate edge in marketing than Mio did. The game is an ensemble cast with Noah and Mio at the heart of it, and that is what the marketing more or less represented in my opinion.

Could they make solo Noah unique or interesting? Sure. This team made a literal potted plant a character. I just feel throwing out Mio as an option is super short sighted. Personally, I think the most likely implementation is the two as a duo. Them being a duo is core to the game: the Ouroboros system is a great example of it. I think having the two together is just the most sensible path after playing XC3.

 

[MasterCheef]

I should also remind you that Alien was also an influence on Doom.

correct it was. i am fully aware. i just didn't bring it up because it was a movie / book ? before being a video game

Well I voted for Cloud on the ballot and Crash. If I had known they were gonna keep using it for such long time afterward I would have voted for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more characters I like but at least Cloud and Crash were my most earnest requests although I definitely would have thrown in Spyro and Master Chief too for the show of support. I still very much hope Crash's fanbase will migrate to Spyro if Crash gets into a Smash game because the only way Spyro is getting in is through sheer western support. I also regret not showing Sceptile love when it mattered most but it wouldn't have mattered anyways because the support died down massively anyway.

explains more of Master Chief's popularity in the highly dedicated base. also anyone who has an xbox current gen or last should grab Halo 3 and Halo Reach . Those were good games. or MCC AKA _ Master Chief Collection.

 

[SPEN18]

The marketing billed the two as co leads. It really isn’t like Noah had a disproportionate edge in marketing than Mio did. The game is an ensemble cast with Noah and Mio at the heart of it, and that is what the marketing more or less represented in my opinion.

Could they make solo Noah unique or interesting? Sure. This team made a literal potted plant a character. I just feel throwing out Mio as an option is super short sighted. Personally, I think the most likely implementation is the two as a duo. Them being a duo is core to the game: the Ouroboros system is a great example of it. I think having the two together is just the most sensible path after playing XC3.

My perception was that Noah has been slightly favored. But I'd have to look into it more thoroughly if you wanted me to, like, prove it.

Personally I'd rather have the Ouroboros system simply represented with the Final Smash and then Noah controlled solo. But I also think the duo implementation is relatively likely unless they don't want to spend the extra resources on it and/or there's trouble making it work the way one would envision. It just doesn't appeal to me personally.

I don't think Mio is a bad character, but I prefer a solo character and if I have to pick one then I'm going with Noah. Mio solo I would prefer over the duo thing but it would feel too much like they're purposely avoiding the swordie and, as I said, I think Noah is favored just by a hair.

 

[Aligo]

I have a substantial distaste of 3 thanks to it's god awful writing and monetization practices, so I would rather talk about something else.

Of all the characters released from 4 onwards, who would you like to be reworked the most? People tend to only talk about reworks for brawl characters and earlier so I think it would be interesting to talk about the more recent ones.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I have a substantial distaste of 3 thanks to it's god awful writing and monetization practices, so I would rather talk about something else.

Of all the characters released from 4 onwards, who would you like to be reworked the most? People tend to only talk about reworks for brawl characters and earlier so I think it would be interesting to talk about the more recent ones.

Daisy: Give her a tangible difference. Even Dark Samus and Richter has this(the latter of which could be better than a single move having a slightly different element... which barely applies outside of items. Dark Samus' electricity differences applies to Spirits or any other kind of Custom Equipment type that would get used, so her differences, as meh as they are, are tangible enough to be notable. I wouldn't mind her having slightly stronger moves more similar to her canon ones). Getting back to Daisy, giving her all custom moves from 4 is a great way to change it up a fair amount. Not everyone is going to be as good as Ryu, Lucina, or Chrom after all(poor Dark Pit really doesn't stand out enough, despite having some reasonable differences from Pit).

I honestly find the rest consistently unique enough to not require one(among non-Echoes. See above for my thoughts on them). Especially as they have very comprehensive and working movesets. The only other one odd I'd argue is Little Mac, due to how limiting his air capabilities are to the point that it's rather unbalanced. Slightly making him better in the air(though not sure if slightly nerfing his ground stuff) would be enough to at least not make him completely bad at that point. This game does emphasize enough aerial fighting since at least Melee(if not Brawl) that it makes quite a difference.

 

[fogbadge]

I have a substantial distaste of 3 thanks to it's god awful writing and monetization practices, so I would rather talk about something else.

Of all the characters released from 4 onwards, who would you like to be reworked the most? People tend to only talk about reworks for brawl characters and earlier so I think it would be interesting to talk about the more recent ones.

you mean the monetisation that 2 had?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I have a substantial distaste of 3 thanks to it's god awful writing and monetization practices, so I would rather talk about something else.

Of all the characters released from 4 onwards, who would you like to be reworked the most? People tend to only talk about reworks for brawl characters and earlier so I think it would be interesting to talk about the more recent ones.

Little Mac is an obvious contender. Losing essentially an entire axis of combat in a platform fighter is a steep price that has kneecapped his viability hard in both games. I’d tone down KO punch and his grounded tools if it meant he wasn’t a complete joke in the air. I’d also rework KO punch, but the bigger priority is fixing the character outright.

The only other 4 characters that a rework imo are Wii Fit and Jr. Wii Fit just needs some across the board hitbox adjustments, her blind spots are so toxic and dumb. Jr needs a Bowser or Zelda rework where they omega buff the character since he’s garbage.

 

[Wonder Smash]

correct it was. i am fully aware. i just didn't bring it up because it was a movie / book ? before being a video game

Yeah, I was just pointing it out that they're not only Microsoft series that's got some similarities to it.

 

[Aligo]

you mean the monetisation that 2 had?

Difference is that two was a much larger game that actually had a complete story, for one. There is a fair likelihood that 3 was made a lower effort stopgap so the team could be moved to other games development, if the reliance on existing content and leaks pre release are anything to go by.

Anyway I like those ideas. I always thought that they could give little Mac's ariels more reach and less lag. They would still be very weak, but they would all push the foe downwards, leaving them at the mercy of his ground game.

 

[fogbadge]

Difference is that two was a much larger game that actually had a complete story, for one. There is a fair likelihood that 3 was made a lower effort stopgap so the team could be moved to other games development, if the reliance on existing content and leaks pre release are anything to go by.

You’re entire basis for thinking is cause you don’t like the story. Those are extraordinary claims that you don’t back up. And you can’t tell the thread to stop talking about something just cause you don’t like it, you wait for a lull in the conversation and then suggest a new topic

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah what is the origin of Mac being an all-ground, no-air fighter anyway? Like, why would a boxer necessarily be worse in the air than any of the other human characters? Is there some canon reason for it I don't know about?