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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Aligo

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You’re entire basis for thinking is cause you don’t like the story
Most of the thoughts are related to what was revealed by the leak, the discontinuity between future connected and 3, and the actions of both monolith and Nintendo at the time ( delays to tears of the kingdom and 3 being pushed out early, which is never a good sign by the way, with more re-used content than the prior games). If the plot was just bad, I would have just said it as it is. It is always interesting to dig into the why.

At the very least, Xeno 3 does have some decent traits, but it was severely curtailed due to outside circumstances.
 

fogbadge

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Most of the thoughts are related to what was revealed by the leak, the discontinuity between future connected and 3, and the actions of both monolith and Nintendo at the time ( delays to tears of the kingdom and 3 being pushed out early, which is never a good sign by the way, with more re-used content than the prior games). If the plot was just bad, I would have just said it as it is. It is always interesting to dig into the why.

At the very least, Xeno 3 does have some decent traits, but it was severely curtailed due to outside circumstances.
you never cite your claims that 3 was released early. as far as other people can tell you’re making it up. by all accounts it was in development for 5 years several of which had covid. it’s fine to dislike something but not to make stuff up
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Just remember; if you don't want to talk about something, then the best thing to do is no longer talk about it. If somebody tries to rope you into it? Ignore it. They clearly don't care enough to respect your basic wishes and it's entirely on them. Your reasonings for not wanting to talk about a subject don't really matter anyway. You're just not interested and that's all that matters regardless.

Now getting back to ideas, some of my thoughts on improving Daisy; Get rid of all the Toads. Give her a new Neutral B. One thought is maybe some kind of sports attack. You could also have some unique item/power-up from Super Mario Land, Super Mario Maker, or Super Mario Run, all mainline games she's usable in(albeit, Maker is a costume). Her throws could be slightly modified parameters-wise. While I get the want for new aerials, that would require very extensive rework in general, since the entire aerial set is based strictly on the ability to float, save maybe the basic Nair. I could be misremembering, though I definitely remember the Forward and Down Airs are heavily focused on the floating design. And since my idea is not trying to make her a non-Echo, well.

...Obviously moving her to clone status also works, with tons of options(enough that finding a clear playstyle is difficult).
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Might I suggest “King Olly” for your next username?
No. Because I like Toad. Just doesn't fit with Daisy.

In other words, request denied. ...I won't deny that was funny, though. XD

Yeah what is the origin of Mac being an all-ground, no-air fighter anyway? Like, why would a boxer necessarily be worse in the air than any of the other human characters? Is there some canon reason for it I don't know about?
Cause Boxers never fought off the ground in the game. It's entirely ground-based combat. That said, I'm not sure if that's his actual reason or if it's a coincidence and something he found as a coherent moveset style from. Since many times a moveset is actually based upon a character's animations/etc. to determine how they should play.

It doesn't help you're in a third person view, not side scrolling, so any kind of jumping wouldn't make sense(beyond lunging attacks, respectively).
 

Aligo

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Just remember; if you don't want to talk about something, then the best thing to do is no longer talk about it. If somebody tries to rope you into it? Ignore it. They clearly don't care enough to respect your basic wishes and it's entirely on them. Your reasonings for not wanting to talk about a subject don't really matter anyway. You're just not interested and that's all that matters regardless.

Now getting back to ideas, some of my thoughts on improving Daisy; Get rid of all the Toads. Give her a new Neutral B. One thought is maybe some kind of sports attack. You could also have some unique item/power-up from Super Mario Land, Super Mario Maker, or Super Mario Run, all mainline games she's usable in(albeit, Maker is a costume). Her throws could be slightly modified parameters-wise. While I get the want for new aerials, that would require very extensive rework in general, since the entire aerial set is based strictly on the ability to float, save maybe the basic Nair. I could be misremembering, though I definitely remember the Forward and Down Airs are heavily focused on the floating design. And since my idea is not trying to make her a non-Echo, well.

...Obviously moving her to clone status also works, with tons of options(enough that finding a clear playstyle is difficult).
Thanks, that is very good advice.

Perhaps, for neutral special, something similar to header would work where she kicks a ball at varied angles. It would help show off daisy's more physical and sporty aspects. Another option would be to throw various mario land enemies, a bit like waddle Dee toss in brawl.

Maybe the golf club and tennis racket could replace peaches current air attacks then replace the side smash with a big kick or something similar. Mostly because the current integration of side smash can use a frying pan, which doesn't make sense for daisy, while the golf club and racket do.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Thanks, that is very good advice.

Perhaps, for neutral special, something similar to header would work where she kicks a ball at varied angles. It would help show off daisy's more physical and sporty aspects. Another option would be to throw various mario land enemies, a bit like waddle Dee toss in brawl.

Maybe the golf club and tennis racket could replace peaches current air attacks then replace the side smash with a big kick or something similar. Mostly because the current integration of side smash can use a frying pan, which doesn't make sense for daisy, while the golf club and racket do.
Yeah, the Frying Pan is actually weird. Daisy actually has talked to Toads in games, before. We've never seen her remotely use said Frying Pan, unlike Super Mario RPG for Peach.

Those other ideas sound great, as they keep the purpose without changing her in more difficult ways, only her animations. Though due to the actual length of each sports item, it'd be easiest if she had more range but less strength behind it in return.

I thought of referencing Header. You could also do a Baseball Attack to further differentiate it from Peach. That said, you could also change the Vegetables to Carrots, the usual vegetable in Super Mario Land.
 

Laniv

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Just remember; if you don't want to talk about something, then the best thing to do is no longer talk about it. If somebody tries to rope you into it? Ignore it. They clearly don't care enough to respect your basic wishes and it's entirely on them. Your reasonings for not wanting to talk about a subject don't really matter anyway. You're just not interested and that's all that matters regardless.

Now getting back to ideas, some of my thoughts on improving Daisy; Get rid of all the Toads. Give her a new Neutral B. One thought is maybe some kind of sports attack. You could also have some unique item/power-up from Super Mario Land, Super Mario Maker, or Super Mario Run, all mainline games she's usable in(albeit, Maker is a costume). Her throws could be slightly modified parameters-wise. While I get the want for new aerials, that would require very extensive rework in general, since the entire aerial set is based strictly on the ability to float, save maybe the basic Nair. I could be misremembering, though I definitely remember the Forward and Down Airs are heavily focused on the floating design. And since my idea is not trying to make her a non-Echo, well.

...Obviously moving her to clone status also works, with tons of options(enough that finding a clear playstyle is difficult).
I would make her a bit faster on the ground, and several of her attacks would be stronger, on account of her being the athlete between her and Peach. Furthermore, I'd give her the extra jump she had in Super Mario Run. And the smash attacks... her forward smash could be swinging a baseball bat that grants a flower effect... Maybe have her use the crystals from Mario Strikers? Like, her down smash has her punch the ground and crystals sprout up on either side of her?

And of course, drop the Toads in favor of the Superball. Heck, replace Peach's Toad as well so that Toad can be a real fighter like he should be
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I would make her a bit faster on the ground, and several of her attacks would be stronger, on account of her being the athlete between her and Peach. Furthermore, I'd give her the extra jump she had in Super Mario Run. And the smash attacks... her forward smash could be swinging a baseball bat that grants a flower effect... Maybe have her use the crystals from Mario Strikers? Like, her down smash has her punch the ground and crystals sprout up on either side of her?
Well, keep in mind I'm speaking on Echo-based changes, but yeah, those are really cool ideas.

TFW Richter is the one that gives people the most trouble coming up with unique stuff so he still works well as some kind of clone.

And of course, drop the Toads in favor of the Superball. Heck, replace Peach's Toad as well so that Toad can be a real fighter like he should be
IMO, Toad's issue is being in the Throws. Just change it to Toadsworth otherwise, and then Toad is good to go if you need to push it. The Throws are far worse than a single move which shows up for a moment. That feels like Chrom levels of involvement to me.

That said, even if he wasn't changed(but the throws gone), he's so damn easy to figure out any kind of moveset(not that I don't get the whole "something extremely specific to Toad only" as a point that Sakurai made, but I agree with the idea of "as long as they're unique concepts at least to Smash").
 
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Chuderz

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Btw it kind of went without notice but here's to 1 year since Ultimate support ended officially. I forgot when the last patch was released but I think it was mid-November but I don't count that really.

No matter which way your slice it we've completed the first major milestone in our wait towards Smash 6! Smashingly awesome sharing that time with you all!
 

DarthEnderX

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I agree that it would have been weird to have the only ARMS rep not actually use their arms, but now that Minmin is in, there should be no issue in Twintelle as a second rep.
Other than a franchise with only 1 game doesn't really deserve multiple reps.

Cause Boxers never fought off the ground in the game. It's entirely ground-based combat.
Technically inaccurate. Little Mac jumps for all of his face attacks in the NES game due to his size.
 
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Ivander

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Other than a franchise with only 1 game doesn't really deserve multiple reps.
I don't think it matters to Nintendo and Sakurai if Sakurai thinks another character from 1 game can give something unique.

And I don't think we are capable of deciding what deserves to be in or not when some of us still think the franchise with almost 20 games, with 3 games that have hit the 2-3 million copies mark and a mobile game that's reached 1 billion revenue, doesn't deserve 8 reps.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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You'll find that's true of many many many other characters in Smash, many of which are aerial masters.
Simply put, you removed a lot of what I said, so you're no longer really responding to my specific content(basically you took it out of context). That, and you didn't really give an example of what you mean, so I can't honestly respond to your points. Could you please rewrite that so we can continue more accurately? :)

I don't think it matters to Nintendo and Sakurai if Sakurai thinks another character from 1 game can give something unique.
This. There is no such "one game = one character" rule to begin with. Nor is there a reason for one in itself. Even then, the fact a single game in a franchise can get multiple characters(especially when they're specific to it) shows how little of relevance this concept is. While it's not a perfect analogy, of course, when determining a character, "how many games they have" is one factor to think on, not the most important. Unfortunately, it's not really easy to think of a good example. In most cases, single game franchises often only one plausible character anyway. This is more of what's keeping them down. And sometimes Sakurai will combine multiple in-game characters into one(Duck Hunt is pretty much three characters in one as part of the moveet, after all. Duck, Dog, and Hunter, but also cameoing multiple characters too) as is. Overall? I don't see a good reason to deny another ARMS character. They may never come up due to ARMS getting no seeable new content in the future, but if he has an idea for a moveset that works, they would still be on the table anyway. They might be out prioritized by other characters, sure. That happens all the time. But again, these are more logical reasons then trying to administer a very arbitrary rule to begin with. That's not how business works in itself.

If a game gets tons of releases, it's relevant to business and the public eye. Thus, that alone can justify a second character. Seeing a unique option you want to add? Easy justification. That doesn't mean a single-game franchise is likely to get a character either, but they aren't going to be arbitrarily barred likewise.
 
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Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
Since base models were mentioned, I've been thinking, which base models do people think would be used for certain characters?

Like, for Hayabusa, maybe Marth would be used for him?
Billy and Jimmy Lee would obviously have Ryu.
Most shoto game characters would probably use :ult_terry::ultryu::ultken::ultkazuya::ultfalcon::ultincineroar::ultlittlemac::ultbrawler: as a base
Most sword users would probably use :ultmarth::ultlucina::ultchrom::ultroy::ultsora::ultsephiroth::ulthero3::ultike::ultlink::ultshulk::ultcloud::ultpyra::ultmythra::ultswordfighter: As a base
Most gun users would probably use :ultbayonetta::ultsamus::ultdarksamus::ultmegaman::ultgunner: as a base
However here is a tricky one
UFO with the Space Invaders could use :ultolimar: and Pikmin as a base but have different kind of functionality
Gardevoir could use :ultzelda::ultrosalina: as a base
Club Penguin can use smaller size of :ultkingdedede: as a base
 
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Aligo

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you never cite your claims that 3 was released early. as far as other people can tell you’re making it up. by all accounts it was in development for 5 years several of which had covid. it’s fine to dislike something but not to make stuff up
Here you go. Both projects had their release dates shifted, and both were being worked on by the teams at monolith at the same time. I will also post about the new hires and writer changes later.

Anyway, since he is a popular request, who would waluigi use as a base?
 

fogbadge

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Here you go. Both projects had their release dates shifted, and both were being worked on by the teams at monolith at the same time. I will also post about the new hires and writer changes later.
i forgot about that. it came out two months early, swapping places with splatoon 3.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Technically inaccurate. Little Mac jumps for all of his face attacks in the NES game due to his size.
That's what I did mean when I said "lunges" to account for that, but yeah, doesn't really fit as well as I had imagined, actually. Though for the most part, I could see that as an interpretation of his Side B, maybe.
 
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Chuderz

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I've been really buckling down for the past few months and working on my Kazuya every chance I get. He's so freaking rewarding to play when you put the time into understanding how each of his attacks work together. I'm in my final leg of training getting my Electric Wind God Fist more consistent. Sometimes I just get it and I do it multiple times in succession but then I of course do other things and come back to it and mess up. At least my normal Wind God Fist is borderline perfect at this point.

Smash team did such an amazing job on him. I really love how they went all out with it and I adore that Sakurai, the man of culture that he is, opted for the classic devil design. I'm just so glad he passed over Heihachi in the first place. Kazuya is so much cooler/better.

I found my local area has a weekly Ultimate tournament. I'm gonna go and see how well I do. I'm thinking I'm gonna stick to my Cloud and Sephiroth because they're both my comfort picks with Cloud being my actual main and with Sephiroth being my actual secondary (RIP Banjo haha) but I'd love to test out my Kazuya on some friendlies too.

I'm also working on my Snake too on the side to become my new zoner but that's a whole other thing.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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now i wonder who can be used as a base for Tetromino and Gem from Bejeweled and Hornet from Daytona they are unlike anything that is in the roster
Probably no one for the first one, as it's a very unique design. Albeit, it also depends what you imagine it as. Some kind of block man? Uhhhh... well, you could look at anyone with choppy animations, but nobody acts as a base. I don't remember what Gem looks like. As for Hornet, nobody comes close, but there may be minor animations from the Koopa Clown Car that could help?
 

Aligo

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now i wonder who can be used as a base for Tetromino and Gem from Bejeweled and Hornet from Daytona they are unlike anything that is in the roster
Ivysaur would probably be most appropriate for the hornet, I'd imagine.
 

Jotari

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Is there a dedicated section for posting movesets? The New Comer Speculation suggests there would be, but there's just this one thread.
 

Geno Boost

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Probably no one for the first one, as it's a very unique design. Albeit, it also depends what you imagine it as. Some kind of block man? Uhhhh... well, you could look at anyone with choppy animations, but nobody acts as a base. I don't remember what Gem looks like. As for Hornet, nobody comes close, but there may be minor animations from the Koopa Clown Car that could help?
Gem are basically these

but i think it would mainly be the Blue Gem

as for Tetromino someone attempted to mod him in brawl

but from what i have seen i think it wouldnt matter much for the base for Tetromino, Gem (Bejeweled), Hornet (Daytona) and F-Type (Stunt Race FX) because they dont require too much to animate that requires a specific body shape to be built on
i think the same applies to Sukapon
one of the reason why this mod was created due to being simple to animate
 
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Diddy Kong

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With all the Xenoblade talk these last few pages, and even though am a advocate for Noah in the next Smash....

JUST WTF IS UP WITH THAT XBC3 ENDING?!

It's terrible !
 

Aligo

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With all the Xenoblade talk these last few pages, and even though am a advocate for Noah in the next Smash....

JUST WTF IS UP WITH THAT XBC3 ENDING?!

It's terrible !
Yes, I got grand slammed by that abomination at the end of a 60+ hour playthrough, where other issues had already made me quite nervous. It hurt so much it made me put my tinfoil conspiracy hat on to find out what on earth went wrong with the game in development terms. From what I have discovered so far, a whole lot.

I am pretty sure the DLC will dig the hole deeper too, based upon the first wave. Also the fact that Tora is more powerful than Klaus for some god forsaken reason.
 
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MasterCheef

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Yes, I got grand slammed by that abomination at the end of a 60+ hour playthrough, where other issues had already made me quite nervous. It hurt so much it made me put my tinfoil conspiracy hat on to find out what on earth went wrong with the game in development terms. From what I have discovered so far, a whole lot.
why was it so bad ?

the impression i get is somehow it is related to a lot of stuff going on relative to Ukraine and the war there.
 

chocolatejr9

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With all the Xenoblade talk these last few pages, and even though am a advocate for Noah in the next Smash....

JUST WTF IS UP WITH THAT XBC3 ENDING?!

It's terrible !
Yes, I got grand slammed by that abomination at the end of a 60+ hour playthrough, where other issues had already made me quite nervous. It hurt so much it made me put my tinfoil conspiracy hat on to find out what on earth went wrong with the game in development terms. From what I have discovered so far, a whole lot.

I am pretty sure the DLC will dig the hole deeper too, based upon the first wave. Also the fact that Tora is more powerful than Klaus for some god forsaken reason.
why was it so bad ?

the impression i get is somehow it is related to a lot of stuff going on relative to Ukraine and the war there.
Me, having still not played XB3: what the heck are you guys talking about?
 

Aligo

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why was it so bad ?

the impression i get is somehow it is related to a lot of stuff going on relative to Ukraine and the war there.
How so? I know that the war has affected food and biodiesel prices substantially due to the importance of Ukraine as a agrarian nation, as well as gas prices in Europe but I can't think of what would directly impact Japanese companies.

I hope that the conflict ends for the sake of Ukraine. War is worse than hell.
 

chocolatejr9

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How so? I know that the war has affected food and biodiesel prices substantially due to the importance of Ukraine as a agrarian nation, as well as gas prices in Europe but I can't think of what would directly impact Japanese companies.

I hope that the conflict ends for the sake of Ukraine. War is worse than hell.
Well, the war DID get the Advance Wars remakes delayed indefinetly, but that was for more specific reasons...
 

Swamp Sensei

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why was it so bad ?

the impression i get is somehow it is related to a lot of stuff going on relative to Ukraine and the war there.
Somehow, I think I can guarantee that Xenoblade Chronicles 3's ending was not affected by the war in Ukraine.
 
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