Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Aligo]

I'd probably say that Elma has a better chance now that monolith are more likely to go for a big project after TOTK, which could include an X sequel. Also her only competition is diet shulk, so she has an advantage interest wise as well.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Considering I think XCX might get a port on the Switch or the successor circa 2024, Elma could get some contemporary relevance from that; how much that will play a factor with the team in the next Smash is anyone's guess.

 

[fogbadge]

We literally have zero black women in Smash and Nintendo is sitting on 2 first-party ones that serve as notable requests within their respective communities. Time's up Nintendo haha.

i want you to go and look at the alt costumes of some of the characters particularly steve and villager

 

[True Blue Warrior]

In regards to the ballot talk the only characters that were outright confirmed to come from the ballot among Ultimate newcomers were . were just sighted as fan demand characters without any references to the ballot.

i want you to go and look at the alt costumes of some of the characters particularly steve and villager

Pretty sure he was talking about defaults. That being said, assuming the Octolings get in the next Smash, their default version would most likely be based on the dark skinned male Octoling most prominently shown in Splatoon 3 promotional material, particularly the cover of said game.

 

[Chuderz]

Speaking of which why are Xenoblade fans gunning for the dude anyway? The cat chick brings way more to the table. She's a lady with cat ears and her weapon isn't represented in Smash currently. Those circle blade things (a shuriken?) that she has.

I thought the same thing about Rex. He seems like a borderline player-insert character to me despite his dialogue and character arc though I'm not super familiar with the plot of Xenoblade 2 to be honest. Everything I've seen he just seems boring and his design is very bland. Pyra and Mythra were always the more eye-catching designs with the only problem being their lewdness was waaaaaay too obvious but Smash team fixed that in a very rare instance of censorship improving the quality of the product. All things considered, I believe Pythra is the pinnacle use of a character slot going to Xenoblade 2 and I don't understand how the fandom still whines about Rex especially since Sakurai and team put him in the taunts, Final Smash attacks and most of the victory screens.

Seems like Xenoblade fans just default support the protag. I saw way more support for the non-playable lords than Byleth when it came to 3 Houses representation. Another instance where Smash team used the character slot to the best of their abilities.

i want you to go and look at the alt costumes of some of the characters particularly steve and villager

I know you think this is a le epic ownage but it's not. I think you should rethink your position.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Seems like Xenoblade fans just default support the protag. I saw way more support for the non-playable lords than Byleth when it came to 3 Houses representation. Another instance where Smash team used the character slot to the best of their abilities.

Protagonists often get priority in Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

I know you think this is a le epic ownage but it's not. I think you should rethink your position.

I know you think you can read other peoples minds but you can’t

 

[Chuderz]

Protagonists often get priority in Smash.

Yeah sure but why not still ask for the random party character you like instead ya know? If the fans think it's a foregone conclusion might as well put up a little resistance while you can I'd say. Oh well not my fandom.

Anyway I also wouldn't really count Octoling as black woman representation considering the Octoling like the Inkling is a player-creation character so Octoling would very likely have multiple different skin tones throughout their alts. I'm talking about an actual character that is a black woman by default AND by extension all throughout her alts. A black woman that is only a black woman.

I know you think you can read other peoples minds but you can’t

Well I'm fairly used to your dismissive tone and thought-ending cliche replies so please forgive me.

 

[fogbadge]

Well I'm fairly used to your dismissive tone and thought-ending cliche replies so please forgive me.

Moving on, one of the characters you were referring to was Elma right?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'd probably say that Elma has a better chance now that monolith are more likely to go for a big project after TOTK, which could include an X sequel. Also her only competition is diet shulk, so she has an advantage interest wise as well.

You forgot Mio, the cat girl.

 

[Aligo]

You forgot Mio, the cat girl.

Ah yes, Nian't.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

What do you guys think of this DK redesign?

 

[Laniv]

I still stand by Sceptile or Elma would have been much better choices than Corrin. I don't understand any other way other than rank-and-file bias for Fire Emblem from the Smash team for them to have opted for Corrin. They say it was because they wanted a character from a new game but Sceptile and Elma both met that criteria at the time and if you discounted Sceptile for his new game being a remake that still leaves Elma which would have helped rep Xenoblade further. She would have been more different too plus she's a black chick which is double representation points.

We literally have zero black women in Smash and Nintendo is sitting on 2 first-party ones that serve as notable requests within their respective communities. Time's up Nintendo haha.

Man, I remember when the demand for Elma was at its highest in 2016. Those were the days...

Speaking of the startling lack of black women in Smash Bros. (and video games in general) I fear that Twintelle is going to get ignored in favor of Spring Man or Ninjara, if they decide on another ARMS character.

 

[fogbadge]

Man, I remember when the demand for Elma was at its highest in 2016. Those were the days...

Speaking of the startling lack of black women in Smash Bros. (and video games in general) I fear that Twintelle is going to get ignored in favor of Spring Man or Ninjara, if they decide on another ARMS character.

does Elma count?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Speaking of the startling lack of black women in Smash Bros. (and video games in general) I fear that Twintelle is going to get ignored in favor of Spring Man or Ninjara, if they decide on another ARMS character.

Twintelle is probably going to become a more prominently promoted character in the next ARMS game considering the fact her popularity ended up being high enough that both Yabuki and Reggie himself acknowledged it.

 

[Aligo]

What do you guys think of this DK redesign?

I like it, especially the pun in the thumbnail. One idea I had to give a unique trait to DK would be giving him the ability to pick up and throw stage objects like he does crates and barrels. This would include stuff like hydrant, minecart, anvil and blocks.

I think people main concerns with twintelle is that she is primary an air fighter in ARMS, with a witch time like mechanic, giving fears of a 'jiggly Belmont', so to speak. The same fears were also had for ribbon girl as a fighter. I personally think those fears were overblown though, as a fighter like that would be very vunerable from below, balancing them out.

Also, in terms of Mio, she shares the same problem in that she is a etraz version of a more interesting character, Nia. They wanted to reuse the twin rings moveset, without considering the water powers and talking tiger that made it interesting in the first place.

This is probably why Elma is more popular currently as a xenoblade choice, as she is both very different from the current reps, and also represents another side of the series.

 

[Gengar84]

I like it, especially the pun in the thumbnail. One idea I had to give a unique trait to DK would be giving him the ability to pick up and throw stage objects like he does crates and barrels. This would include stuff like hydrant, minecart, anvil and blocks.

I think people main concerns with twintelle is that she is primary an air fighter in ARMS, with a witch time like mechanic, giving fears of a 'jiggly Belmont', so to speak. The same fears were also had for ribbon girl as a fighter. I personally think those fears were overblown though, as a fighter like that would be very vunerable from below, balancing them out.

Also, in terms of Mio, she shares the same problem in that she is a etraz version of a more interesting character, Nia. They wanted to reuse the twin rings moveset, without considering the water powers and talking tiger that made it interesting in the first place.

This is probably why Elma is more popular currently as a xenoblade choice, as she is both very different from the current reps, and also represents another side of the series.

Yeah, I watched that too. I agree with pretty much everything here and I actually had very similar ideas for his specials. I think the barrel cannon and barrel toss would go a long way into making the moveset feel more like DK. I’d still love to see other mechanics of the DKC games represented in Dixie’s moveset but this is a great start with DK himself.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Protagonists often get priority in Smash.

The two of them are the co leads of the game. You could easily call them co protagonists with their role in the story. Honestly you would have an easier time making that claim for Mio imo than for the Aegis.

Could they decide to just do Noah? Maybe, sure. But I would not be shocked at all if they do Noah and Mio together or Mio herself alone instead as well. I do feel much like with Rex a good chunk of the community will auto target Noah for Smash. Honestly, I’d even give Mio solo the leg up myself compared to Noah solo, if only due to her being easier to make distinct in the roster. I think the most likely outcome though is them together.

 

[Gengar84]

The two of them are the co leads of the game. You could easily call them co protagonists with their role in the story. Honestly you would have an easier time making that claim for Mio imo than for the Aegis.

Could they decide to just do Noah? Maybe, sure. But I would not be shocked at all if they do Noah and Mio together or Mio herself alone instead as well. I do feel much like with Rex a good chunk of the community will auto target Noah for Smash. Honestly, I’d even give Mio solo the leg up myself compared to Noah solo, if only due to her being easier to make distinct in the roster. I think the most likely outcome though is them together.

I feel like adding both as a transform character is the right choice here. It would also allow them to use the Ouroboros fusion as their final smash. Alternatively, you could just make the character in permanent Ouroboros form as the playable. That would definitely be a unique way to represent two characters in one.

As for Twintelle, I could see her making it in if Arms gets a sequel. I feel like she wouldn’t have been a good choice for the first rep since she’s the only character that doesn’t actually fight with her arms at all. Now that we have Minmin, she’d make a great second playable character that would add a bit more diversity to the roster.

 

[Chuderz]

What do you guys think of this DK redesign?

I like it, I especially like the changes in Side-Special and Up-Special to give him a better recovery and to more directly reference his games with the Up-Special in particular, though as it should be obvious I'd personally do things a bit differently. I'd make the Barrell summon a Shield-Special in order to keep his Down-Special as is which means I'd also keep his Down-Smash as is too. I think his Up-Smash should scoop the enemy into the "second" (I know it's the only true hitbox in the current game) hit directly above himself similar to ROB's Up-Smash but with a much better range. I think his Down-Smash should ground enemy players like Mr. G&W's Down-Smash since he won't have his Side-Special headbutt to do it anymore.

Other than that my only other complaint is that I also think the Neutral-Air is kind of weaksauce and would just rather keep the one he has now to be honest.

I don't think Donkey Kong needs a major rework. He needs more like a couple of little updates/adjustments and that's mostly what this guy did so that's great. I also really like the idea of his Dash-Attack being given some extra momentum. I could definitely get behind that change too.

 

[Gengar84]

I love making movesets myself but I definitely don’t have the technical knowledge Delzethin does to go into all the specific balancing detail like he does. I just have fun coming up with the concepts and general use for the moves.

 

[fogbadge]

I love making movesets myself but I definitely don’t have the technical knowledge Delzethin does to go into all the specific balancing detail like he does. I just have fun coming up with the concepts and general use for the moves.

same

 

[Aligo]

Speaking of which why are Xenoblade fans gunning for the dude anyway? The cat chick brings way more to the table.

Depending on if you care about spoilers, there may be some reasons.

Spoiler: XC3 spoilers

First , the world of xeno 3, aiononis, sonic 06's itself at the end of the game, meaning everyone but Noah never existed ( people don't like supporting dead folks, with the exception of villains. Never understood why). Second, as far as female characters in the game go, people tend to prefer Eunie. There isn't any fierce debate like in two over who 'best girl' is. I have never seen anyone express much opinion about Mio at all, to be honest.

Bootleg astral chain fusion is probably the best way to go with a XC3 rep. Let's hope they implement it better than the home game!

 

[fogbadge]

Depending on if you care about spoilers, there may be some reasons.

Spoiler: XC3 spoilers

First , the world of xeno 3, aiononis, sonic 06's itself at the end of the game, meaning everyone but Noah never existed ( people don't like supporting dead folks, with the exception of villains. Never understood why). Second, as far as female characters in the game go, people tend to prefer Eunie. There isn't any fierce debate like in two over who 'best girl' is. I have never seen anyone express much opinion about Mio at all, to be honest.

Bootleg astral chain fusion is probably the best way to go with a XC3 rep. Let's hope they implement it better than the home game!

Spoiler

no they all still exist they’ve just lost their memories. Bar the people from the city

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Depending on if you care about spoilers, there may be some reasons.

Spoiler: XC3 spoilers

First , the world of xeno 3, aiononis, sonic 06's itself at the end of the game, meaning everyone but Noah never existed ( people don't like supporting dead folks, with the exception of villains. Never understood why). Second, as far as female characters in the game go, people tend to prefer Eunie. There isn't any fierce debate like in two over who 'best girl' is. I have never seen anyone express much opinion about Mio at all, to be honest.

Bootleg astral chain fusion is probably the best way to go with a XC3 rep. Let's hope they implement it better than the home game!

That’s not how the ending worked at all. The game was very clear on what the ending was.

Spoiler

A big part of the game was that the worlds of XC1 and XC2 collided. Moebius, led by Z, was keeping the worlds together and in a time loop essentially because Z thought that was what the people wanted and what was best for them because change is scary. Noah and Mio fought this and stopped it, but this lead to the worlds separating and the characters from the XC1 world and XC2 world being separated. Melia ans Nia even explicitly say this in the climax. As in, the ones from Xenoblade 1 and 2. They explain what happened and what would happen if they take down Z. They lose their memories of the shared world, but even then there is the hope spot with Noah and Mio that maybe that isn’t exactly the case. Did you even play the same game?

Also waifu wars don’t matter, idk why you are bringing that up as a serious point and dwell on it longer than the plot of the game. And for the record, yes they do exist for 3 . Check the Xenoblade Reddit if ya dont.

—————————

Ignoring that outright wrong post, honestly a lot of the arguments you could make for Noah you can make for Mio. The game clearly bills them as co protagonists both in the story and in the marketing. Xenoblade 3 was a huge success, and we could easily not see a new Xenoblade game by the next smash. Xenoblade 2 and 3 has a five year gap between them. Assuming they do port/remake X like they did with 1, we wouldn’t see XC4 until 2027 at the earliest. You could easily make a cool moveset referencing the class system in the game. Mio just offers a little more than Noah imo.

I do think a switching system would be the best way to handle them. Have Noah use moves from Swordmaster, Heavy Guard, and Medic Gunner. Have Mio use moves from Zephyr, Tactician, and Ogre. I do think for normals they would probably lean into Swordsmaster and Zephyr respectively, but I do think using the other classes is a given for a XC3 moveset.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Since base models were mentioned, I've been thinking, which base models do people think would be used for certain characters?

Like, for Hayabusa, maybe Marth would be used for him?
Billy and Jimmy Lee would obviously have Ryu.

 

[Laniv]

does Elma count?

if you discount her true form, then yeah I suppose she counts in the same way marina from splatoon counts. your mileage may vary though

 

[Gengar84]

Since base models were mentioned, I've been thinking, which base models do people think would be used for certain characters?

Like, for Hayabusa, maybe Marth would be used for him?
Billy and Jimmy Lee would obviously have Ryu.

Here are just a few thoughts on some of my most wanted characters:

Battletoads - Incineroar or Captain Falcon
Magus - Sephiroth or Ganondorf
Illidan - Kazuya or Ganondorf
Fulgore - Kazuya
Kerrigan - Zero Suit Samus or Dark Samus
Bill Rizer - Snake
Shionne - Zero Suit Samus
Gengar - Wario
Zero - Link (moveset closer to Mythra)
Blastoise - Bowser
Lu Bu - Ganondorf
Medusa - Palutena
Zegram - Sephiroth
Vi - Little Mac
Diablo - Ridley
Jena Anderson - ZSS or Corin
Raziel - Corrin

It kind of depends on which direction they want to go with some of these characters for which existing character to build off of.

 

[Chuderz]

Since base models were mentioned, I've been thinking, which base models do people think would be used for certain characters?

Like, for Hayabusa, maybe Marth would be used for him?
Billy and Jimmy Lee would obviously have Ryu.

Well there's obvious ones like Diddy for Dixie, Inkling for Octoling, Yoshi for Birdo, Kirby for Waddle Dee, Sonic for basically any Sonic character that's not Dr.Robotnik. Maybe Mewtwo for Giygas if they ever wanted to include... It? Him? Them? I don't know. Raiden would likely use Snake as well. Oh and if they ever wanted a female Tekken rep Zero Suit Samus would be perfect for any of the actual contenders with them being either Jun or an Anna/Nina echo situation.

Speaking of Tekken I personally think they're finally gonna bring Jun back for Tekken 8. It's just a gut feeling but with the focus shifting to Kazuya and Jin I think it only makes sense to finally reintroduce her to the plot. It'd be a big selling point for fans and I just think it's way too big an opportunity for Bamco to ignore.

 

[Aligo]

Huh, maybe I am remembering things wrong. To think I did my playthrough a couple of months ago... Mind, none of those memories are positive...

When you say raiden over snake, is this pre-cyborg raiden or post-cyborg raiden?

 

[Chuderz]

Huh, maybe I am remembering things wrong. To think I did my playthrough a couple of months ago... Mind, none of those memories are positive...

When you say raiden over snake, is this pre-cyborg raiden or post-cyborg raiden?

I was thinking about pre-cyborg Raiden but now that I further consider it I'd rather they do cyborg Raiden too so I guess no shortcuts for Raiden.

 

[fogbadge]

if you discount her true form, then yeah I suppose she counts in the same way marina from splatoon counts. your mileage may vary though

well the difference is that that’s how Maria actually looks. With Elma it’s a disguise. I suppose there’d be some people who’d count it but still I can’t help but wonder

 

[Gengar84]

I actually think about what base model would work for various characters since I used to be a Brawl modder. You have to think about that kind of thing a lot when deciding who to make the mod over. With mods, you do have to consider moveset as well as frame, which wouldn’t be as much of an issue if they’re building the moveset for an official character.

 

[Aligo]

well the difference is that that’s how Maria actually looks. With Elma it’s a disguise. I suppose there’d be some people who’d count it but still I can’t help but wonder

I would agree with that. Would Frye also count?.

Spoiler: splat 3

she has a boss fight to go off of, and the eels are pretty cool

 

[Wonder Smash]

Here are just a few thoughts on some of my most wanted characters:

Battletoads - Incineroar or Captain Falcon
Magus - Sephiroth or Ganondorf
Illidan - Kazuya or Ganondorf
Fulgore - Kazuya
Kerrigan - Zero Suit Samus or Dark Samus
Bill Rizer - Snake
Gengar - Wario
Zero - Link (moveset closer to Mythra)
Blastoise - Bowser
Lu Bu - Ganondorf
Medusa - Palutena
Zegram - Sephiroth
Vi - Little Mac
Diablo - Ridley
Jena Anderson - ZSS or Corin
Raziel - Corrin

It kind of depends on which direction they want to go with some of these characters for which existing character to build off of.

All those seems to make sense. I thought about Bill Rizer and Snake myself.

 

[Aligo]

I wonder if Rizer could have a final smash like brawl snake's, where you could shoot at the stage from the foreground, a bit like those base sections in contra.

 

[Gengar84]

I wonder if Rizer could have a final smash like brawl snake's, where you could shoot at the stage from the foreground, a bit like those base sections in contra.

It’s funny that Snake’s final Smash already fits Bill Rizer perfectly as is. Personally, I would want to incorporate the super bomb from Contra III somehow in his final Smash since it was basically his ultimate move in that game.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Since base models were mentioned, I've been thinking, which base models do people think would be used for certain characters?

Like, for Hayabusa, maybe Marth would be used for him?
Billy and Jimmy Lee would obviously have Ryu.

Here are a few I would go with.
Crash: Sonic
Eggman: Bowser Jr
Bandana Dee: Kirby
Adol: Marth
Chrono: Ike
Alucard: Robin
Zero: Mythra
Lara Croft: ZSS
Kratos: Ike
Master Chief: Samus
Officer Howard: ZSS
Mio: Sheik
Noah: Shulk
Skull Kid: Zelda
Octolings: This one is a head scratcher, idk /s
Geno: Mii Gunner
King Boo: Dedede
Chorus Kids: Ice climbers
Isaac: Robin or MSF

 

[Wonder Smash]

I also thought up an idea for a Contra stage. Something similar to the Guar Plain, with the characters a fighting on grassy platforms while an alien (specifically Gromaides) sits on top of a Red Falcon enemy base in the background.

Here are a few I would go with.
Crash: Sonic
Eggman: Bowser Jr
Bandana Dee: Kirby
Adol: Marth
Chrono: Ike
Alucard: Robin
Zero: Mythra
Lara Croft: ZSS
Kratos: Ike
Master Chief: Samus
Officer Howard: ZSS
Mio: Sheik
Noah: Shulk
Skull Kid: Zelda
Octolings: This one is a head scratcher, idk /s
Geno: Mii Gunner
King Boo: Dedede
Chorus Kids: Ice climbers
Isaac: Robin or MSF

Ike for Kratos? I thought Simon would have been more fitting.

Those others don't sound bad, though.

 

[Aligo]

Here are a few I would go with.

King Boo: Dedede

If probably say that jigglypuff would be a better choice for king boo. There is a boo mod for jigglypuff and it looks pretty good. Also there is no head to worry about.