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With all due respect, and I say this as someone quite likes Viridi (as well as every other KIU character), I personally feel like being a slapdash Palutena echo is honestly probably more than she deserves at this point lol. Being a tertiary supporting character who only appeared in one game from 10 years ago that clearly isn't getting a sequel/follow up.
illusionists have appeared in fighting games before
It's kind of a royal shame what's happened to Kid Icarus since Uprising's release. Right after it gets remembered, it gets forgotten AGAIN. My big pipe dream is that Sakurai, after resting from Smash Ultimate, will use the non-Smash opportunity to create a KI:U sequel.
I don’t think you have to directly translate Zoroark’s illusion ability as it works in the mainline games into Smash. There are a few other ways you could represent the general idea of illusions and trickery without having to be so literal with Pokemon’s mechanic’s. One idea you could go with is what Delzethin covered in his video where Zoroark summons shadowy projections and illusory copies of himself to perform certain attacks. Think Ganondorf’s attack’s in Hyrule Warriors for the former and Lucario’s Smash counter for the latter. Another idea is you could reference the movie it debuted in and have it temporarily transform into one of the Johto legendary beasts for a few of its moves. That would still get the general idea across while not having to worry about complicated mechanics.
They could maybe make it be like Arya Stark‘s face-stealing ability in Multiversus, where you can briefly turn into your opponent’s character to use some of their normals (or their taunts.) That’s not exactly the same as it works in Pokémon, but it would still involve some trickery, as your opponent would need to avoid being confused by there being two of their character on the screen, especially if it’s a chaotic multiplayer FFA. It would also give it a very large variety of combos, as it’d have some different normals depending on the opponent’s character.
Didn't Delzethin make a whole video about how he'd work in Smash?
I have a feeling K. Rool was supposed to be the Retro Rep this time around. That and I think there's probably some legal mandate that every Smash game must include a Pokemon from the latest generation. But still Incineroar could've had his role taken up by Fighter Hayabusa or Starman, they could've started development earlier, and then the Legal Mandate Pokemon could've been someone more unique like Decidueye, Primarina, or Lycanroc. But the fact that Incineroar is as plain as they are makes me think they were limited in the time department with Incineroar, especially since some sources say he was decided after Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. I wish we got a proper, non-Fan Favorite, Retro Character though since those tend to be some of Smash's Best Designs EASY!It would be great retro rep just likebut smash ultimate skipped having new retro rep also the fact that pro wrestling rep can be 6 characters in one just like Koopalings which is why I see them as a better wrestler representation compared to
Yeah but they are always pretty boring because all they ever do is mirror matches.
not the one I was thinking of
I haven’t played it mostly because I’m purely a casual player who kind of sucks at games. Multiverses seems catered to the hardcore competitive community so I don’t think there would be much for me to do in it. I feel like if I tried to play online, I would just lose nonstop. The game looks cool and I like the art style for the characters.
If you declone them, though, then that's even more resources for one-offs from the same entry in a series where like every other entry features a totally different cast.
Yeah I should have said "lower-effort" instead of "low-effort." That's one of the things I'm trying to present: that even the Echoes are not completely trivial additions, especially ones like Chrom or Lucina with different gameplay variations that could tilt the balancing. Otherwise I feel like we'd have even more of them than we do now. And with semiclones, you can forget about them being "easy" additions altogether if the number really is up there around 70%.
Calling anything the insert franchise here killer is rarely a good idea because if sells less than the well known game, it (and some fans) look bad and even if it does outsell the title its a rival with, that sort of hype can still potentially turn off fans that actually like Smash/Pokemon/GTA/whatever and are put off by another release trying to compete so aggressively with it.
Oh PLEASE: people thought NASB would kill Smash for all the same reasons, and look how THAT turned out.
Multiversus will coexist with Smash as a knockback platform fighter, it will not be a killer competitively or casually.
Thinking that clones were stealing spots from uniques was a widespread idea before, but it seems basically put to rest now. I (along with most people) support clones and asset reuse in particular cases; I just have a more limited view of the number and kinds of potential clones that are worth the expended effort and also represent the character well.
The thing is that with EiH in the picture it was definitely not just "a few last minute clones on top" for Ult. It was a momentous effort to bring back every single ditched semiclone from the past. And on top of that, cloning (including the Echo branding) was part of the effort to work around the high development strain and reduced newcomer selection brought on by EiH.
Maybe, but not necessarily. And certainly not necessarily going forward. What if, for example, they had taken all the work they did on Lucina and decided to use it on giving Alph a few different mechanics instead? Depending on who you are you may have preferred that.
Honestly, as someone who never minded clones, it absolutely blew my mind (and even sort of irritated me, if I'm being completely honest) how quickly the fanbase seemed to be swayed once Smash finally gave such characters a label.
Eh, what really changed my mind was when they made it clear that clones were saving resources. I didn't know that until then.
SPEN18
is right that clones need to be selected with care, not go willy nilly. I can't see Doc getting in if he were post-Melee for example.
10e. Ninten [Ness]
...Well, don't leave me hanging. Who?
Mu-12, Makoto Nanaya, Mileena, Mina Nanakawa and Maya.
It makes me depressed, but that's a me problem. I'm glad it exists and could finally give Smash some actual competition, even if Rivals 2 is dead on arrival after this and Fraymakers. Also stop saying it will kill Smash. You could say it can compete with Smash, it most certainly will, but saying it will straight up kill Smash is just wrong on so many levels.
I don't think we discussed this much before, maybe briefly or maybe I just can't remember. But what I'd propose with a rework of either Lucina and Chrom is that they both get this moveset. They fight identical in Awakening after all. That's reason enough for either to be a straight Echo of the other.
yeah smash basically prints money. they only way its getting killed is if nintendo goes down
Solid list. I’d go with Big Boss over Liquid personally and maybe Protoman over Bass, but these are solid enough picks as a whole. Only one I strongly would choose a different option for would be Big Boss over Liquid, and I still wouldn’t mind Liquid.
I feel like the only gripe people have with clones now is whether they waste the moveset potential or not of the character. I know Ganondorf is a given on that subject, but I know Daisy, the Fire Emblem clones, and the Star Fox clones get those complaints as well.
I meant just the idea of cutting Robin but keeping the Echoes. I think that did come up before?
So no Robin, but rework Byleth to include some of the ideas from Robin and make Chrom unique like most people assumed would happen pre-4? Even if it would be possible to make Lucina an Echo of Chrom, she might fit better still Echoing Marth; but in this scenario with a unique non-Robin Awakening slot it wouldn't really matter resource-wise if she Echoed Chrom or Marth.
Yes, I also would like to avoid the grandfathering. Like, a character you didn't support getting in shouldn't force you to support that character in the future.
Then again, the SF cast spend most of their time flying ships so most of their regular combat abilities are up to fan interpretation. At least until the later games like Adventures (which wasn't intended to even be a SF game originally).
Still, I think future Star Fox characters shouldn't be limited to the blaster, forward dash, all-way dash, reflector set. If they have to make new things up that can fit within the established Star Fox universe, they should go for it. It would be much better than seeing the Zelda series' Ganon and Zelda diverge farther and farther away from their Smash selves in terms of their on-screen combat abilities seeing that, as you said, the SF cast's infantry combat abilities are almost never onscreen.
I'm pretty sure that could only really be said because it did not appear as a playable fighter in Smash Brothers. Which is more of a timing issue than it is being the fault of the character.
-Had it's own movie, which the Smash version is based on.
