Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Dinoman96]

I’m curious, I couldn’t really find concrete data anywhere but was Banjo & Kazooie RARE’s highest selling game of their original IP? I’m curious how it stacks up to Killer Instinct, Perfect Dark, and Battletoads.

Yes.

Source is from Install Base, as I just linked up above.

BK1 sold 3.65 million (Tooie sold 1.49 million), Killer Instinct on SNES sold 3.20 million, Perfect Dark sold 2.52 million. There are no recorded sales figures for KI Gold or any of the Battletoads games.

Everything above BK1 are all the licensed DK games + GoldenEye.

 

[Gengar84]

Yes.

View attachment 354793

Source is from Install Base, as I just linked up above.

BK1 sold 3.65 million (Tooie sold 1.49 million), Killer Instinct on SNES sold 3.20 million, Perfect Dark sold 2.52 million. There are no recorded sales figures for KI Gold or any of the Battletoads games.

Thanks for that. It looks like some of the games were in the same ball park at least. I do remember hearing that the original Battletoads was a huge success but I couldn’t find any sales data either. I think Sea of Thieves actually surpassed all of their classic games sales wise. The latest trailer in the X-Box event said 30 million players, but I know that doesn’t translate to sales since it includes free players. I wonder if Killer Instinct 2013 outsold the original. I know it had around 13 million players thanks to Game Pass but I’m not sure how many sales it actually got.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Yakuza is one of SEGA's flagship franchises, it wouldn't surprise me to see it getting a fighter in the next Smash.

Reminder that JoJo's: All-Star Battle is on the list, and that doesn't mean that a JoJo character could join Smash for the next entry; but with the remaster is coming to next-gen consoles, i'm not sure what to say?.

 

[chocolatejr9]

You mean this...

Official - DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

Just saw the MH presentation. Gotta be honest, if a Hunter ever makes it in, Wyvern Riding would be an amazing Final Smash.

smashboards.com

Guess I'll just repost this for fun:

King Dedede(5) -CONFIRMED
Diddy Kong(4) - CONFIRMED
Geno(4) – Mii outfit
Ike(4) - CONFIRMED
Ridley(4) - CONFIRMED
Captain Olimar & Pikmin(3) - CONFIRMED
Krystal(3) – Assist Trophy
Takamaru(3) – Assist Trophy
Windwaker Link(3) - CONFIRMED
Animal Crossing MC(2) - CONFIRMED
Claus(2) – Spirit
DeMille(2) - Spirit
Isaac(2) – Assist Trophy
Jeff(2) – Assist Trophy
Kawasima(2) – Assist Trophy
King K.Rool(2) - CONFIRMED
Lip(2) – Mii outfit
Lucas(2) -CONFIRMED
Mega Man(2) - CONFIRMED
Oguma(2)
Ouendan(2) - Spirit
Sukapon(2) – Assist Trophy

About 10 characters on this list made it to playable status:


About six characters on this list (Krystal, Takamaru, Isaac, Jeff, Kawashima, and Sukapon) made it to assist trophy status.

About two characters (Geno and Lip) made it to Mii outfit status.

About three characters (Ouendan, DeMille, and Claus) made it to spirit status.

Leaving only Ogma here as the one and only character on this poll to be a total non-show in Smash.

Then let us begin the Ogma movement!

 

[DarthEnderX]

they could probably only licence it for the trailer rather than inclusion in the game

Or, more specifically, licensing it for the game probably cost a lot more.

I also never got the amount of support Geno got, he's not even a main character in his sole appearance.

He...kinda is. The main plot of the game revolves around him. Sure, he's not Mario, but Mario is mostly just the silent protag.

 

[Gengar84]

Or, more specifically, licensing it for the game probably cost a lot more.

He...kinda is. The main plot of the game revolves around him. Sure, he's not Mario, but Mario is mostly just the silent protag.

I kind of feel that way about Garnet and Yuna from Final Fantasies IX and X. The journey feels a lot more focused around their stories than Zidane or Tidus overall. Zidane doesn’t really become the focus of the story until much later.

 

[Opossum]

You mean this...

Official - DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

Just saw the MH presentation. Gotta be honest, if a Hunter ever makes it in, Wyvern Riding would be an amazing Final Smash.

smashboards.com

Guess I'll just repost this for fun:

King Dedede(5) -CONFIRMED
Diddy Kong(4) - CONFIRMED
Geno(4) – Mii outfit
Ike(4) - CONFIRMED
Ridley(4) - CONFIRMED
Captain Olimar & Pikmin(3) - CONFIRMED
Krystal(3) – Assist Trophy
Takamaru(3) – Assist Trophy
Windwaker Link(3) - CONFIRMED
Animal Crossing MC(2) - CONFIRMED
Claus(2) – Spirit
DeMille(2) - Spirit
Isaac(2) – Assist Trophy
Jeff(2) – Assist Trophy
Kawasima(2) – Assist Trophy
King K.Rool(2) - CONFIRMED
Lip(2) – Mii outfit
Lucas(2) -CONFIRMED
Mega Man(2) - CONFIRMED
Oguma(2)
Ouendan(2) - Spirit
Sukapon(2) – Assist Trophy

About 10 characters on this list made it to playable status:


About six characters on this list (Krystal, Takamaru, Isaac, Jeff, Kawashima, and Sukapon) made it to assist trophy status.

About two characters (Geno and Lip) made it to Mii outfit status.

About three characters (Ouendan, DeMille, and Claus) made it to spirit status.

Leaving only Ogma here as the one and only character on this poll to be a total non-show in Smash.

Sakurai's a Navarre fan so him not including Ogma's hilariously on brand lol.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I kind of feel that way about Garnet and Yuna from Final Fantasies IX and X. The journey feels a lot more focused around their stories than Zidane or Tidus overall.

That's exactly what it's like.

Collecting the Seven Stars and defeating Smithy is Geno's quest. Mario is just along for the ride.

No way lol. Mario spinoff games don't even include the Mario RPG characters they actually own like Fawful.

Give me Admiral Bobbery in MarKar!

You would think that more people would be complaining about the amount of Mario characters we have in Smash already

People complain about FE because it's representation doesn't match it's importance.

Mario and Pokemon are 2 of the biggest franchises in the world. Them having a ton of characters is understandable.

 

[Gengar84]

That's exactly what it's like.

Collecting the Seven Stars and defeating Smithy is Geno's quest. Mario is just along for the ride.

This one is probably a stretch, but could the same be argued for Chrono Trigger and Magus? It felt like a lot of the events in that game revolves around him and his family. I might just be biased on that one because he’s always been my favorite character.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sakurai's a Navarre fan so him not including Ogma's hilariously on brand lol.

Not using both Ogma and Navarre

 

[DarthEnderX]

This one is probably a stretch, but could the same be argued for Chrono Trigger and Magus?

You could argue it for most silent JRPG protagonists. Your party members feel more invested than you because...well, they talk about it.

 

[fogbadge]

Or, more specifically, licensing it for the game probably cost a lot more.

that is pretty much what i was thinking

 

[Gengar84]

You could argue it for most silent JRPG protagonists. Your party members feel more invested than you because...well, they talk about it.

Yeah, I think that’s a big part of it but I’d say there’s more to it in this case. I think Magus in particular stands out to me compared to the rest of the cast for various reasons. He started out as the main antagonist and became an optional recruitable party member, which was the first time I’ve ever seen that. The whole scene at Zeal with Schala and the queen was very impactful. A playable character in Chrono Cross may actually be Magus and even the final boss of Chrono Cross is related to him in some way that I won’t spoil. I believe he was also the only Trigger character in Radical Dreamers (assuming Magil is Magus, I never confirmed that).

 

[Ivander]

I kind of feel that way about Garnet and Yuna from Final Fantasies IX and X. The journey feels a lot more focused around their stories than Zidane or Tidus overall.

Well the reason you're focused on Yuna's story is because Tidus is also experiencing it. You and Tidus are a witness to Yuna's story, her pilgrimage and what she and Spira goes through and that's what allows Tidus to mature and throw out his thoughts when Yuna is almost ready to go through with the Final Aeon ritual. The focus on her was a necessity to allow Tidus to mature, develop and ultimately make the choice to save Yuna and Spira over getting back home.

Like you can have a main protagonist who's not focused upon compared to other main characters, especially if being a witness to the focus on other characters is what helps develop the main protagonist and allows them to help the other characters or make their own tough decisions when they are eventually faced with them.

 

[Gengar84]

Well the reason you're focused on Yuna's story is because Tidus is also experiencing it. You and Tidus are a witness to Yuna's story, her pilgrimage and what she and Spira goes through and that's what allows Tidus to mature and throw out his thoughts when Yuna is almost ready to go through with the Final Aeon ritual. The focus on her was a necessity to allow Tidus to mature, develop and ultimately make the choice to save Yuna and Spira over getting back home.

Like you can have a main protagonist who's not focused upon compared to other main characters, especially if being a witness to the focus on other characters is what helps develop the main protagonist and allows them to help the other characters or make their own tough decisions when they are eventually faced with them.

That is a very good point. I personally always considered Zidane/Garnet, Tidus/Yuna, Alphen/Shionne, and several other male and female protagonists to be dual protagonists of equal standing. It seems like, as a general rule, the story tends to focus more around the female protagonist’s journey while giving the player control of the male protagonist as they learn from and support each other and their party.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As far as Banjo Kazooie vs Super Mario RPG, as someone who played both games around the time of their respective releases, I think there is a context as to why the former felt more significant than the latter beyond just sales numbers.

With B-K, it wasn't just that it was a very well-made game or that in many people's eyes it was an even better experience than Mario 64; it was its status as a fantastic release on a console with a relatively smaller library, and one of the stand-out examples of its genre during the latter's golden age. Banjo's big connected hub world, the charm of the settings, and the expansion of sandbox platformer without ever losing the pick and up play approachability, all while coming out in one of the N64's strongest years, it made it one of those titles that seemingly everyone who owned the console had at least played if not outright owned.

Super Mario RPG was well liked upon release and came off as incredibly novel given the mixture of Mario and Squaresoft elements. The issue was timing and the system it was on. Not only did the game face some pretty strong competition in some fan's minds by the already long list of great 16 bit role playing games, but even its status as the kind of game to get non fans to try the genre got overshadowed the next year by FFVII and to a lesser degree Pokémon shortly after. Throw in the fact that many of the company's fans were already moving onto the N64, Nintendo itself effectively restarted its RPG line with Paper Mario, and the game not even coming out in Europe? You have a title that is very appreciated by those that played it, but in some ways was the game to be discovered and praised years after the fact, rather than instantly becoming as cherished as Banjo-Kazooie was.

 

[Sucumbio]

Can I admit I don't like any animal platform character except Sonic and not lose face?..

Prolly not .

Spyro cool tho

 

[Gengar84]

Can I admit I don't like any animal platform character except Sonic and not lose face?..

Prolly not .

Spyro cool tho

I don’t dislike any of them but Sonic and Donkey Kong characters are the only ones I would call cool. Platforming animal mascots just not typically my style of characters.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I just had a thought. Since we got Advent Children music with the Sephiroth DLC, that means game related music from anime and movies is no longer off limits. Does anyone think there’s any chance we might ever get to hear this in Smash one day?

Pokemon Season 1 Intro HD

The first intro of Pok3mon

m.youtube.com

I just want to mention that my biggest disappointed as a Smash player was finding out that the route 1 remix in smash wasn't this song:

They got my hopes up by calling it "Road to viridian city" Like the song lyrics.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I don't like any animal platform character

Platforming animal mascots just not typically my style of characters.

Does Rayman counts even if he's not a ****ing animal?

 

[Yamat08]

Not using both Ogma and Navarre

But Navarre did get a Sticker in Brawl, and a Spirit in Ultimate. Ogma got nothing.

Incidentally, I remember a "leaked" list of playables in Brawl included Mia, which intrigued me because she was my favorite in the Tellius games. Sadly, she's in the same boat as Ogma, getting not so much as a mention in any Smash games (she does tend to do very well in the Fire Emblem Heroes Choose Your Legends polls, though).

 

[PeridotGX]

the funny thing about Navarre is that Sakurai isn't even the person most biased towards him in smash. Someone on the PMEX team made him his own character

He's probably the most obscure character on this roster, and it has Vectorman and Yellow Alloy.

 

[SPEN18]

But Navarre did get a Sticker in Brawl, and a Spirit in Ultimate. Ogma got nothing.

Looking back at the list of FE stickers from Brawl, there is some clear myrmidon favoritism there. Navarre, Rutger, Guy, and Joshua? They're all popular characters, but that's a pretty suspicious pattern. It's was kinda funny to see it, tbh. More fuel for the "Sakurai loves anime swordsmen" fire, though these guys don't have blue hair...

And yeah, Ogma IIRC had a reasonable part in the marketing for SD but after that...he's been kinda shoved aside by IS in favor of others, even within just Archanea. Personally, I preferred Ogma, Deke, Raven, and Gerik over their counterparts above but...oh, well.

 

[Ivander]

Looking back at the list of FE stickers from Brawl, there is some clear myrmidon favoritism there. Navarre, Rutger, Guy, and Joshua? They're all popular characters, but that's a pretty suspicious pattern. It's was kinda funny to see it, tbh. More fuel for the "Sakurai loves anime swordsmen" fire, though these guys don't have blue hair...

And yeah, Ogma IIRC had a reasonable part in the marketing for SD but after that...he's been kinda shoved aside by IS in favor of others, even within just Archanea. Personally, I preferred Ogma, Deke, Raven, and Gerik over their counterparts above but...oh, well.

I mean, Ogma got an alternate in Fire Emblem Heroes before some other Archanea characters...although Navarre got one before Ogma.

That said, many of the Myrmidon characters are quite popular in general. It's not just the guys. Many of the female Myrmidons are also popular as well. It's not too surprising since Myrmidons/Swordmasters practically are the "fast high critical rate anime swordsman" deal in Fire Emblem, although most of them tend to have pretty favourable personalities and characters.

 

[Quillion]

I still think that if a Myrmidon or Myrm-like character gets in Smash, they'll have an uphill battle to make them not play or be animated like Mythra.

 

[fogbadge]

Can I admit I don't like any animal platform character except Sonic and not lose face?..

Prolly not .

Spyro cool tho

i dont see why you should lose face by saying you dislike any character

 

[Geno Boost]

This Crono smash mod feels so official

Hailing from SquareSoft's hit time-traveling RPG for the SNES, Crono from Chrono Trigger joins the fight as a skin for Hero! #SSBU #スマブラSP https://t.co/u3UNqe9FFp
A lot of people helped out with this mod, so the full credits will be shared a post below. pic.twitter.com/FO2e5MZd6O

— PikPM (@pm_pik) June 16, 2022

 

[Gengar84]

This Crono smash mod feels so official

Hailing from SquareSoft's hit time-traveling RPG for the SNES, Crono from Chrono Trigger joins the fight as a skin for Hero! #SSBU #スマブラSP https://t.co/u3UNqe9FFp
A lot of people helped out with this mod, so the full credits will be shared a post below. pic.twitter.com/FO2e5MZd6O

— PikPM (@pm_pik) June 16, 2022

I saw that. Pik is an amazing modder. I’ve been talking with him since Brawl and we used to be on the same modding team back in the day. I wanted to make Magus but that Crono came out so good I don’t think there’s any chance my Magus could ever live up to that, especially after 10 years of inactivity.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Looking back at the list of FE stickers from Brawl, there is some clear myrmidon favoritism there. Navarre, Rutger, Guy, and Joshua? They're all popular characters, but that's a pretty suspicious pattern. It's was kinda funny to see it, tbh. More fuel for the "Sakurai loves anime swordsmen" fire, though these guys don't have blue hair...

And yeah, Ogma IIRC had a reasonable part in the marketing for SD but after that...he's been kinda shoved aside by IS in favor of others, even within just Archanea. Personally, I preferred Ogma, Deke, Raven, and Gerik over their counterparts above but...oh, well.

I slightly prefer the Mercenary / Heroes in Fire Emblem over the Myrmidon / Swordmasters too, mostly cause their defence and HP is better even if they don't land as many critical hits. Makes for a better unit overall , cause they don't die as easily. I tend to use both however.

But the bias of this archetype MIGHT just mean that Sakurai might choose Lyn after all?

 

[Gengar84]

I slightly prefer the Mercenary / Heroes in Fire Emblem over the Myrmidon / Swordmasters too, mostly cause their defence and HP is better even if they don't land as many critical hits. Makes for a better unit overall , cause they don't die as easily. I tend to use both however.

But the bias of this archetype MIGHT just mean that Sakurai might choose Lyn after all?

I use units strictly based on how much I like them as characters, whether that’s their design or personality. Their stats don’t really factor into it much. I’ll try to make weaker units work wherever I can if I like them enough as characters and I won’t use strong units much if I didn’t really care much about them as characters. I never play on harder difficulties so can typically get away with just using characters I like the most.

 

[fogbadge]

I use units strictly based on how much I like them as characters, whether that’s their design or personality. Their stats don’t really factor into it much. I’ll try to make weaker units work wherever I can if I like them enough as characters and I won’t use strong units much if I didn’t really care much about them as characters. I never play on harder difficulties so can typically get away with just using characters I like the most.

you're a user after my own heart

 

[Diddy Kong]

I use units strictly based on how much I like them as characters, whether that’s their design or personality. Their stats don’t really factor into it much. I’ll try to make weaker units work wherever I can if I like them enough as characters and I won’t use strong units much if I didn’t really care much about them as characters. I never play on harder difficulties so can typically get away with just using characters I like the most.

To be honest am a Normal difficulty player too, there are a few Fire Emblem games I've played Hard mode on. I use characters I like often too, it just happens to me I like the archetypes of Heroes and Swordmasters a lot.

 

[DarthEnderX]

This Crono smash mod feels so official

Magic Burst IS pretty much just Luminaire...

 

[Gengar84]

To be honest am a Normal difficulty player too, there are a few Fire Emblem games I've played Hard mode on. I use characters I like often too, it just happens to me I like the archetypes of Heroes and Swordmasters a lot.

I’m not sure I ever put much thought into what class my favorites fall into. I think my favorites in Ike’s games tended to be Myrmidons. I was a big fan of Lucia and Zihark but I also really liked Naesala, Tibarn, and the Black Knight. My favorites in Three Houses are Petra, Shamir, Felix, Dimitri, Bernadette, Edelgarde, and Katherine but I don’t know if they really have anything in common.

Magic Burst IS pretty much just Luminaire...

That’s a big reason I personally feel that Magus is a much more interesting Smash addition than Crono. Hero also has lightning attacks that perfectly fit Crono. I feel like dual techs are the only real thing that could make him stand out from Hero. Not to mention that he looks very similar (not that that’s necessarily a bad thing, but Magus is definitely more visually distinct). Sora did kind of steal my idea for Magus’ neutral special of rotating spells of different elements but the actual move could be different even if the idea is the same lol. I’d still be hyped to get anything from the Chrono series since it’s one of my favorite games ever but I’m just personally rooting for Magus.

 

[Geno Boost]

do you guys view Goomba as a joke character for smash?
i think he is pretty much a fully developed character after MLSSS remake and managed to become a main character

 

[Sucumbio]

do you guys view Goomba as a joke character for smash?
i think he is pretty much a fully developed character after MLSSS remake and managed to become a main character

Better than plant

 

[Gengar84]

do you guys view Goomba as a joke character for smash?
i think he is pretty much a fully developed character after MLSSS remake and managed to become a main character

Goomba is one of my most wanted characters. I’d love for either a basic Goomba or Goombella to get into Smash.

 

[Ivander]

But the bias of this archetype MIGHT just mean that Sakurai might choose Lyn after all?

I still somewhat jest that you could make a Myrmidon/Swordmaster moveset that could fit a whole bunch of Myrmidon characters and that way, we can get Lyn, Sakurai can get Navarre and Fire Emblem fans could get one of their favorite Myrmidons like Ayra, Joshua, Owain, Rutgar, etc.

That said, I still think Lyn's best chance would be if a remake of FE7 is in the works and so far, if the supposed rumors are true, we may be getting an FE4 Remake first before that.

 

[Geno Boost]

i am wondering if we are forever stuck with new gen pokemon and new fire emblem characters as being the only option for newcomers in their series during future smash games

 

[fogbadge]

i am wondering if we are forever stuck with new gen pokemon and new fire emblem characters as being the only option for newcomers in their series during future smash games

id say yes as firstly that’s how the Pokémon Company does things and secondly sakurai loooooooves fire emblem