Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

God, I wish copyright weren't so complicated and Sakurai could freely stick a franchise in Smash, even with his "video games only" rule in place/

Sadly, it's gonna be awhile before video games start entering the public domain...

 

[fogbadge]

God, I wish copyright weren't so complicated and Sakurai could freely stick a franchise in Smash, even with his "video games only" rule in place.

that is just one of sad truths about it all, licensing issues getting in the way and perhaps the license holders making unreasonable demands

 

[Gengar84]

that is just one of sad truths about it all, licensing issues getting in the way and perhaps the license holders making unreasonable demands

That’s the main reason I proposed the Nintendo Vs. Microsoft idea a while ago if they wanted to go a different route for Smash. Ideally, I’d love to keep all of the third party characters we have but if licensing becomes an issue in bringing them back, sticking to one major company like Microsoft would still give us a ton of iconic characters, many of which have major history with Nintendo.

 

[dream1ng]

and when your argument can be summed up by "they're all coming back cause it's smash" thats a terrible argument

But that's not my argument. I'm saying that unless they're bought out, all the current third-party companies will likely still be cooperative, other than possibly Microsoft. That's not the same as claiming perfect returning attendance.

And if the most pertinent counterpoints are invoking the nonexistent exclusivity clause of 'guests' in fighting games, fresh grudges concocted against Sakurai, and the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, I'd say that only proves how outlying these intervening factors are.

But hey, I can dig for reasons too. Maybe Square's CEO goes to a fortune teller who advises him against lending out characters for crossovers. Maybe they add Hayabusa and Capcom gets mad they don't have the only Ryu anymore. Maybe the next game releases in September and Sega doesn't like Virgos.

 

[osby]

That’s the main reason I proposed the Nintendo Vs. Microsoft idea a while ago if they wanted to go a different route for Smash. Ideally, I’d love to keep all of the third party characters we have but if licensing becomes an issue in bringing them back, sticking to one major company like Microsoft would still give us a ton of iconic characters, many of which have major history with Nintendo.

I feel like adding a bunch of Japanese developers to the mix at this point is pretty easy.

I don't see SNK, Capcom, Sega, and Bandai-Namco causing any problems for example. Konami and Square Enix might go either way. I'd say trying to establish a relationship with a large group of Western developers would be a lot harder than just bringing most of the existing guests back.

 

[Gengar84]

I feel like adding a bunch of Japanese developers to the mix at this point is pretty easy.

I don't see SNK, Capcom, Sega, and Bandai-Namco causing any problems for example. Konami and Square Enix might go either way. I'd say trying to establish a relationship with a large group of Western developers would be a lot harder than just bringing most of the existing guests back.

Yeah, that’s possible. I was just going by Sakurai’s comments stating that Ultimate was a miracle that would probably never happen again. I’d hate to lose Sephiroth, Mega Man, Sonic, Joker, and other third party characters. I’d also love to see a lot of Japanese characters like Magus, Bill Rizer, Zero, Lu Bu, Nightmare, Xemnas, and Alphen/Shionne still make it in. The optimal game for me is to just keep building on Ultimate.

 

[fogbadge]

But that's not my argument. I'm saying that unless they're bought out, all the current third-party companies will likely still be cooperative, other than possibly Microsoft. That's not the same as claiming perfect returning attendance.

And if the most pertinent counterpoints are invoking the nonexistent exclusivity clause of 'guests' in fighting games, fresh grudges concocted against Sakurai, and the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, I'd say that only proves how outlying these intervening factors are.

Hows the view from your high horse?

while I have you have you considered these?

that is just one of sad truths about it all, licensing issues getting in the way and perhaps the license holders making unreasonable demands

thinking everyone is going to play ball cause they have done before isnt logic its wishful thinking

 

[PeridotGX]

Hows the view from your high horse?

while I have you have you considered these?



thinking everyone is going to play ball cause they have done before isnt logic its wishful thinking

Why are you arguing like this? What kind of argument is "it could happen"? A meteorologist doesn't look at the forecast and say "welp no way of knowing for sure ill just say were getting a tornado", they analyze the situation, past trends, and then postulate what they predict. If new information turns up, they adjust their predictions accordingly. They aren't always right, but they try.

I swear, half the people in this thread need to take a debate class. Perhaps an English class wouldn't be remiss either...

 

[fogbadge]

Why are you arguing like this? What kind of argument is "it could happen"? A meteorologist doesn't look at the forecast and say "welp no way of knowing for sure ill just say were getting a tornado", they analyze the situation, past trends, and then postulate what they predict. If new information turns up, they adjust their predictions accordingly. They aren't always right, but they try.

I swear, half the people in this thread need to take a debate class. Perhaps an English class wouldn't be remiss either...

oh don’t give me that. If you did analyse the situation and past trends then you know that licensing issues can and have happened. Between the FF music and it taking 5 years to get Steve into the game and the famously problematic DQ composer

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Hows the view from your high horse?

while I have you have you considered these?



thinking everyone is going to play ball cause they have done before isnt logic its wishful thinking

It could happen is not a viable argument without a strong amount of evidence supporting it. Yellowstone "could" erupt any day now. Ireland "could" be united. Aliens "could" be in Area 51. That does not mean any of those is likely to happen. You are treating one outcome as a certainty when there is plenty of evidence to suggest that almost every company involved in Smash right now would still be open to collaborating in the future.

The evidence you have put forward is not the strongest. It really is not wishful thinking to assume that right now, the status quo will be upheld. None of these companies outside of a buyout seem poised to change course. Sure, a buyout "could" happen. But it also could easily not happen. You can throw hypothetical situations out there of perhaps a rights holder being unreasonable, but from what we have seen everyone on board with smash so far...has worked or been working well with Smash so far. The status quo could shift, but there really as of now no strong reason to assume it will shift radically. Even if the next smash did decide to scale back the roster, which I will say I doubt cuts would exceed the single digits, I think that at the end of the day its easier to assume someone like Simon or Cloud comes back than not.

Your arguments right now are very disjointed and people clearly have been pointing that out. I would suggest you take a step back for a bit instead of just posting one off the cuff two sentence reply and take a break, then come back and make a stronger argument.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Why are you arguing like this? What kind of argument is "it could happen"? A meteorologist doesn't look at the forecast and say "welp no way of knowing for sure ill just say were getting a tornado", they analyze the situation, past trends, and then postulate what they predict. If new information turns up, they adjust their predictions accordingly. They aren't always right, but they try.

I swear, half the people in this thread need to take a debate class. Perhaps an English class wouldn't be remiss either...

I’m tempted to repost the entire essay I made about the chances and conditions of every Third Party in a hypothetical Ultimate Deluxe.

 

[Gengar84]

It could happen is not a viable argument without a strong amount of evidence supporting it. Yellowstone "could" erupt any day now. Ireland "could" be united. Aliens "could" be in Area 51. That does not mean any of those is likely to happen. You are treating one outcome as a certainty when there is plenty of evidence to suggest that almost every company involved in Smash right now would still be open to collaborating in the future.

The evidence you have put forward is not the strongest. It really is not wishful thinking to assume that right now, the status quo will be upheld. None of these companies outside of a buyout seem poised to change course. Sure, a buyout "could" happen. But it also could easily not happen. You can throw hypothetical situations out there of perhaps a rights holder being unreasonable, but from what we have seen everyone on board with smash so far...has worked or been working well with Smash so far. The status quo could shift, but there really as of now no strong reason to assume it will shift radically. Even if the next smash did decide to scale back the roster, which I will say I doubt cuts would exceed the single digits, I think that at the end of the day its easier to assume someone like Simon or Cloud comes back than not.

Your arguments right now are very disjointed and people clearly have been pointing that out. I would suggest you take a step back for a bit instead of just posting one off the cuff two sentence reply and take a break, then come back and make a stronger argument.

I think anything is possible but I’d say the strongest point of evidence in fogbadge’s favor are Sakurai’s own words not to expect something like Ultimate again. Sakurai has gone on record saying what a miracle it was pulling everything together and that it almost didn’t happen. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that it might be difficult to repeat Ultimate again if we’re taking Sakurai’s words at face value.

 

[Lenidem]

That makes sense. I can see why a character like Goku would be very unlikely for the reasons you described. What I don’t get is why some people are so against the idea that they’d quit Smash if he or any other non game character made it in. I’m fine if none ever do but to me, a cool character is a cool character and I don’t care what media they originated from.

Smash is and always has been about video games. There are nostalgic of its early Nintendo-only era, but that's what it has always been about. Not only with the characters: the stages, the music, the trophies... If they ever introduce someone from a different media, that would shatter all its cohesion. Smash would be about... everything? Nothing? And no, video game adaptations don't make a license a video game license. Otherwise former French president Jacques Chirac would also be a Smash possibility.

And I absolutely love Dragon Ball.

 

[Gengar84]

Smash is and always have been about video games. There are nostalgic of its early Nintendo-only era, but that's what it has always been about. Not only with the characters: the stages, the music, the trophies... If they ever introduce someone from a different media, that would shatter all its cohesion. Smash would be about... everything? Nothing? And no, video game adaptations doesn't make a license a video game license. Otherwise former French president Jacques Chirac would also be a Smash possibility.

And I absolutely love Dragon Ball.

Yeah, I’m not really going to argue for Goku or non game characters because I’m totally fine either way. For me though, Smash has already changed what it was about. Smash 64 and Melee, it was a crossover of Nintendo properties and now it’s a celebration of gaming in general. True, it’s still video games but it has shifted focus over the years.

 

[fogbadge]

It could happen is not a viable argument without a strong amount of evidence supporting it. Yellowstone "could" erupt any day now. Ireland "could" be united. Aliens "could" be in Area 51. That does not mean any of those is likely to happen. You are treating one outcome as a certainty when there is plenty of evidence to suggest that almost every company involved in Smash right now would still be open to collaborating in the future.

The evidence you have put forward is not the strongest. It really is not wishful thinking to assume that right now, the status quo will be upheld. None of these companies outside of a buyout seem poised to change course. Sure, a buyout "could" happen. But it also could easily not happen. You can throw hypothetical situations out there of perhaps a rights holder being unreasonable, but from what we have seen everyone on board with smash so far...has worked or been working well with Smash so far. The status quo could shift, but there really as of now no strong reason to assume it will shift radically. Even if the next smash did decide to scale back the roster, which I will say I doubt cuts would exceed the single digits, I think that at the end of the day its easier to assume someone like Simon or Cloud comes back than not.

Your arguments right now are very disjointed and people clearly have been pointing that out. I would suggest you take a step back for a bit instead of just posting one off the cuff two sentence reply and take a break, then come back and make a stronger argument.

sunshine have you tried reading all the comments? i didnt say it could happen i said it has happened. if it was such an up hill struggle getting them all this time that struggle isnt going to magically disappear especially if the status quo doesnt change.

 

[Sucumbio]

Did someone say debate?

Hasty Generalization

A hasty generalization is a claim based on a few examples rather than substantial proof.

Appeal to Authority

Appeal to authority is the misuse of an authority's opinion to support an argument.

Carry on.

 

[Lenidem]

Yeah, I’m not really going to argue for Goku or non game characters because I’m totally fine either way. For me though, Smash has already changed what it was about. Smash 64 and Melee, it was a crossover of Nintendo properties and now it’s a celebration of gaming in general. True, it’s still video games but it has shifted focus over the years.

For me, the transition from "Nintendo only" to "Nintendo + several other" is on a totally different scale than "video games only" to "video games + mangas + ??". It's like going to the next town vs visiting another planet: might kinda look similar at first glance, but actually totally different.

 

[Chuderz]

oh don’t give me that. If you did analyse the situation and past trends then you know that licensing issues can and have happened. Between the FF music and it taking 5 years to get Steve into the game and the famously problematic DQ composer

I think both of these issues are much easier to address a second time around though. A lot of these negotiations are about representation in the game in conjunction with clearing the licensing through the respective rights holders. Those past contracts can work as a base for future negotiations and with the characters represented in-game already approved (think Sora's design being meticulously scrutinized) those representations now can serve as a base. The same goes for the music that's already cleared and remixed. Past clearance can serve as a base for future clearance and established remixes can be used again so they'd probably be approved much quicker than negotiating a fresh remix.

 

[fogbadge]

I think both of these issues are much easier to address a second time around though. A lot of these negotiations are about representation in the game in conjunction with clearing the licensing through the respective rights holders. Those past contracts can work as a base for future negotiations and with the characters represented in-game already approved (think Sora's design being meticulously scrutinized) those representations now can serve as a base. The same goes for the music that's already cleared and remixed. Past clearance can serve as a base for future clearance and established remixes can be used again so they'd probably be approved much quicker than negotiating a fresh remix.

sounds reasonable, but do we have any examples of it happening before?

 

[Chuderz]

sounds reasonable, but do we have any examples of it happening before?

I would guess that it's partially the reason Cloud, Midgar and his same two songs were able to be copy-pasted from Smash 4 to base game Ultimate despite it being rumored to be a massive hurdle to get him into said base game.

 

[fogbadge]

I would guess that it's partially the reason Cloud, Midgar and his same two songs were able to be copy-pasted from Smash 4 to base game Ultimate despite it being rumored to be a massive hurdle to get him into said base game.

I was under the impression that they it was the same license. They knew they were moving onto the next smash with all the old characters so surely they’d license him for two games

 

[JOJONumber691]

Nintendo is dumb sometimes lmao.

 

[fogbadge]

Nintendo is dumb sometimes lmao.

there was a time when i'd be the first to say no to that but i have to agree

 

[chocolatejr9]

Nintendo is dumb sometimes lmao.

Let me guess: you saw the new Mario Strikers intro?

 

[JOJONumber691]

I was responding to Fog on Cloud in Ultimate’s Base Game.

 

[SPEN18]

the strongest point of evidence in fogbadge’s favor are Sakurai’s own words not to expect something like Ultimate again. Sakurai has gone on record saying what a miracle it was pulling everything together and that it almost didn’t happen. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that it might be difficult to repeat Ultimate again if we’re taking Sakurai’s words at face value.

Yeah, it took almost everything out of them just to bring everyone back for Ultimate, even with the ability to reuse assets much more heavily than usual. And now we have even more characters to carry over, including unique and popular base game newcomers and a large number of DLC fighters originating from a diverse group of companies.

We've never had such a large third party roster to retain, and even the transition from 4 to Ultimate is not entirely applicable due to the opportunistic asset reuse and the shorter wait between Smash entries. We don't know what would've happened to Snake, Cloud, etc. if they hadn't been so committed to EiH from the start. And Brawl had just 2, count 'em, 2 third parties to bring back for 4. This is an unprecedented situation, even if you count fully the move from 4 to Ult, that I don't think even prior resistance to cuts is going to wholly remedy.

To reiterate, I don't think that company relations are going to be the only thing potentially holding back third party retention in the future...it would be wrong to assume that limited time and resources aren't going to play a role as well.

Between the reveal of EiH and the final base roster reveals I was holding out hope (and even arguing that) bringing back all of the vets wasn't going to take that much work and that we'd still get a healthy batch of unique newcomers. That belief was I think one of the drivers of believing the Grinch leak for some (if not a prerequisite for believing that leak). But as it turned out, bringing back everyone was an immense effort. After seeing the final roster and game, that was clear and is only further confirmed by Sakurai's statements.

 

[Chuderz]

I just don't see what scrapping all the work from Ultimate does for Smash. People claim some nebulous improvement but where?

Graphics? Can't that just be upscaled from Ultimate? We know for a fact that realistic-looking characters have to be brought closer to the colorful characters more than the other way around.

Gameplay? I don't see why an Ultimate DX couldn't potentially expand upon Smash's current gameplay with Sakurai talking about aerial smash attacks and with the likes of Terry adding a whole world of possibilities. If it's engine tweaking isn't that already been demonstrated as a possibility going from 4 to Ultimate? I'd love an even faster game than Ultimate you should check out the HDR mod if that's your speed.

Is the online? That's really a problem with Nintendo's pitiful online infrastructure as much as it's the game's netcode. Sakurai seems interested in rollback so I imagine it's going to be a focal point of Smash 6 whatever shape it takes. I don't understand how an Ultimate DX couldn't have rollback either but I'm open to being explained as to why it's impossible though I don't expect anybody with that sort of understanding to take their time explaining it to me just some guy on Smashboards that likes Smash too much.

Is it that old moveset reworks are exclusive to the idea of new entry started from scratch? There are quite a few solutions that could work within an Ultimate DX. There's the inheritance design philosophy where a character like Mario getting a massive overhaul would be complimented by Dr. Mario inheriting the classic Mario moveset. Similarly a character like Dr. Luigi could be created to serve this same purpose as could a completely separate character like Black Shadow inheriting Ganondorf's old moveset. Then there's the possibility of having the option to select the modern or classic moveset for the relevant characters at the character select screen with either a submenu before confirmation of the select or using a toggle (with a button currently not being utilized like X) similar to switching Pokemon for Pokemon Trainer or Pyra/Mythra and echoes if they're stacked.

I stand by the assertion that an Ultimate DX worked on like a true Smash 6 can do anything a Smash 6 started from scratch can and more because there are some things only an Ultimate DX can do like retaining EiH. I've never had it been explained why it's a better concept for a future entry other than it being more likely though that practically means nothing while Smash is in hibernation.

 

[dream1ng]

Hows the view from your high horse?

while I have you have you considered these?



thinking everyone is going to play ball cause they have done before isnt logic its wishful thinking

Have I considered licensing? Yes, I have, but apart from saying "licensing difficulties" and expecting that to be sufficient reasoning, I can't actually articulate which licensing difficulties would arise that would make third-party cooperation unlikely, apart from buyout.

I can't point to any of the third-parties, apart from maybe Microsoft, and deem them as a likely culprit of licensing difficulties. I have no reason to. Do I think these companies are going to to start trying to squeeze Nintendo past the point they will pay? Not really. I think having a significant budget allocated for licensing and the third-party companies presumably actually wanting to be in the game will keep them in play, if Nintendo still wants them involved.

Is it possible? Sure. But my contention was never it being impossible. Possibility and likelihood are very different.

You say it's wishful thinking to retain the cooperation of these companies, but the reasons they became cooperative in the first place aren't going away. Smash is in no danger of bottoming out and losing its budget, audience, clout, quality, engagement, or architect.

I think anything is possible but I’d say the strongest point of evidence in fogbadge’s favor are Sakurai’s own words not to expect something like Ultimate again. Sakurai has gone on record saying what a miracle it was pulling everything together and that it almost didn’t happen. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that it might be difficult to repeat Ultimate again if we’re taking Sakurai’s words at face value.

I'm sure assembling a game like Ultimate is a herculean task, and in the future Nintendo might alleviate that by not including all the previous third-party characters or companies... but that doesn't mean that those companies wouldn't still be game if approached.

There are good reasons to believe Nintendo won't seek to retain every third-party character. That's not what I personally have been arguing. I just think the likely reasons to believe the third-party companies won't be cooperative is much shorter.

I think if we don't get a third-party character back, it's because Nintendo didn't go to the effort of re-acquiring them. Not because x company took their ball and went home, not wanting to play anymore. Again, other than possibly Microsoft, and again, buyouts aside.

 

[fogbadge]

Have I considered licensing? Yes, I have, but apart from saying "licensing difficulties" and expecting that to be sufficient reasoning, I can't actually articulate which licensing difficulties would arise that would make third-party cooperation unlikely, apart from buyout.

I can't point to any of the third-parties, apart from maybe Microsoft, and deem them as a likely culprit of licensing difficulties. I have no reason to. Do I think these companies are going to to start trying to squeeze Nintendo past the point they will pay? Not really. I think having a significant budget allocated for licensing and the third-party companies presumably actually wanting to be in the game will keep them in play, if Nintendo still wants them involved.

Is it possible? Sure. But my contention was never it being impossible. Possibility and likelihood are very different.

You say it's wishful thinking to retain the cooperation of these companies, but the reasons they became cooperative in the first place aren't going away. Smash is in no danger of bottoming out and losing its budget, audience, clout, quality, engagement, or architect.

and there it is “if they want too” what proof is there that they care one way or the other? We don’t know what they got in return for letting them use those characters, was it a single payout or a cut of the profit? You can’t say its not going to change when we don’t know what it is in the first place. And if you don’t think any of them will start trying to squeeze money from Nintendo they you really haven’t been paying attention to SE
I also think it’s a sign of remarkable optimism that you don’t foresee any licensing problems when licensing characters, locations, music and probably sound effects in every region of the world they wish to sell it in.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That makes sense. I can see why a character like Goku would be very unlikely for the reasons you described. What I don’t get is why some people are so against the idea that they’d quit Smash if he or any other non game character made it in. I’m fine if none ever do but to me, a cool character is a cool character and I don’t care what media they originated from.

Goku is a very popular idea for the longest time yeah, and due to his massive popularity I might just think it's possible. I mean, Cloud, Ridley, Steve, Banjo and Sora where also once considered almost impossible. And Sora already sort of breached a barrier with having "fourth party" content (in the form of Disney, even tho it's ever so slight).

Goku has appeared in many games already in the past, and even if I don't directly support him (because of the floodgate he'd open) , I wouldn't be entirely opposed to him either.

I mean, I used to be a Nintendo purist. Wanted nothing to do with third party newcomers, but I slowly opened up towards them and started playing some of the games (FF7- which I haven't finished and DQ11 which I loved) and it all wasn't so bad.

All I do want is a good connection to Nintendo, and that's why I think Joker is still the weirdest addition to Smash so far. I was also quite upset with Cloud in Smash 4, mainly cause I felt cheated for not getting K.Rool. And I guess that's where the main problem lies, entitlement, and people thinking one character addition they don't like directly takes away the spot for a character they'd rather see included. But that **** has nothing to do with merits of inclusion in Smash, it's either the character is considered and deemed feasible or not.

Goku however is just about the most popular suggestion that's left. I think if Sakurai can make the deal with whomever is in charge of the copyrights of Dragonball Z in videogames, he'll do it. And he'd be crazy not to do it. I mean, "how can Ultimate be topped?" is a legitimate question, and it could be answered with Goku.

I don't like the idea, but am very much opening myself up for the possibility because it would be a sure way this next Smash is gonna see massive success. Even at the loss of popular third party characters as Cloud, Sephiroth, Sora and Hero.

 

[JOJONumber691]

As much as I think Goku is a god awful pick even by Non-Video Game Standards, if an Ultimate Deluxe somehow happens, I wouldn’t be shocked if Goku managed to sneak in as DLC as a last surprise, even if there are FAR better picks for Non-Video Game Characters. I mean, James Bond, Spider-Man, Team Rocket. But if any get on it’s probably Goku and I have just accepted it at this point.

 

[Gengar84]

As much as I think Goku is a god awful pick even by Non-Video Game Standards, if an Ultimate Deluxe somehow happens, I wouldn’t be shocked if Goku managed to sneak in as DLC as a last surprise, even if there are FAR better picks for Non-Video Game Characters. I mean, James Bond, Spider-Man, Team Rocket. But if any get on it’s probably Goku and I have just accepted it at this point.

Yeah, I never really got into Dragon Ball despite being a big anime fan so I don’t really care much about Goku one way or the other. I like a lot of Toriyama’s character designs and Chrono Trigger is one of my favorite games so that’s something. James Bond makes a lot of sense as a non game character. I loved GoldenEye on the N64 and it would be awesome to get its amazing soundtrack in Smash.

I’ve always just been very open minded so I’m pretty much down for anything in Smash. Obviously, I’d prefer my favorite characters but I’ve learned to appreciate anyone that makes it in, even if I didn’t want them previously. Steve was literally my least wanted character but I still bought him and I’m happy for his fans. His gimmick is fun to mess around with on occasion against the AI.

 

[Lenidem]

Goku is a very popular idea for the longest time yeah, and due to his massive popularity I might just think it's possible. I mean, Cloud, Ridley, Steve, Banjo and Sora where also once considered almost impossible. And Sora already sort of breached a barrier with having "fourth party" content (in the form of Disney, even tho it's ever so slight).

Goku has appeared in many games already in the past, and even if I don't directly support him (because of the floodgate he'd open) , I wouldn't be entirely opposed to him either.

I mean, I used to be a Nintendo purist. Wanted nothing to do with third party newcomers, but I slowly opened up towards them and started playing some of the games (FF7- which I haven't finished and DQ11 which I loved) and it all wasn't so bad.

All I do want is a good connection to Nintendo, and that's why I think Joker is still the weirdest addition to Smash so far. I was also quite upset with Cloud in Smash 4, mainly cause I felt cheated for not getting K.Rool. And I guess that's where the main problem lies, entitlement, and people thinking one character addition they don't like directly takes away the spot for a character they'd rather see included. But that **** has nothing to do with merits of inclusion in Smash, it's either the character is considered and deemed feasible or not.

Goku however is just about the most popular suggestion that's left. I think if Sakurai can make the deal with whomever is in charge of the copyrights of Dragonball Z in videogames, he'll do it. And he'd be crazy not to do it. I mean, "how can Ultimate be topped?" is a legitimate question, and it could be answered with Goku.

I don't like the idea, but am very much opening myself up for the possibility because it would be a sure way this next Smash is gonna see massive success. Even at the loss of popular third party characters as Cloud, Sephiroth, Sora and Hero.

Not wanting a character is not necessarily because of "entitlement". And you can think that a lot of people "deserve to be" or "should be" in Smash without wanting them.

I’ve always just been very open minded

I too am very humble.

 

[Gengar84]

Not wanting a character is not necessarily because of "entitlement". And you can think that a lot of people "deserve to be" or "should be" in Smash without wanting them.

I too am very humble.

Was that sarcasm? I’m definitely not full of myself if that’s what you’re getting at. I’ll be the first to admit that I generally suck at almost everything, including Smash. Since when does saying you’re open minded count as bragging?

 

[Diddy Kong]

As much as I think Goku is a god awful pick even by Non-Video Game Standards, if an Ultimate Deluxe somehow happens, I wouldn’t be shocked if Goku managed to sneak in as DLC as a last surprise, even if there are FAR better picks for Non-Video Game Characters. I mean, James Bond, Spider-Man, Team Rocket. But if any get on it’s probably Goku and I have just accepted it at this point.

That's the thing to me too, that last part about acceptance. I hear and read everywhere Goku is probably the most popular suggestion now, if they can strike the deal they'll do it. And market the next Smash accordingly. I already saw it happening with Sora being the last DLC character. I actually think Mickey Mouse is also very likely to happen one day, if they can keep Sora in then of course.

But there's no denying it, Goku in Smash would be huge. I'm not a DBZ fan at all, but it's just the way it is. They could even do a Smash vs Jump Superstar sort of crossover with this concept, and it would sell like hotcakes. There's a reason Sony and Microsoft are always so willing to work with Dragonball Z games on their systems, it's cause they sell, and they sort of lack the starpower with their own franchises compared to what Nintendo has at least, but having DBZ on your systems really helps with that.

It's big business, and both parties would likely be in it for the money. I see it as inevitable actually, if not this next Smash than the one after it.

And honestly, Nintendo better gets on with it because if they don't do it, Sony or Microsoft might do it before them.

Was that sarcasm? I’m definitely not full of myself if that’s what you’re getting at. I’ll be the first to admit that I generally suck at almost everything, including Smash. Since when does saying you’re open minded count as bragging?

You're creative, kindhearted, open-minded and passionate. That's what I can make up from your posts alone, don't undersell yourself!

 

[HyperSomari64]

List of non-video game characters that can join Smash because of it's franchise had good video games or have something related to Nintendo or other companies represented (and have to be a deserving but better addition than Goku):

• Mickey Mouse (The Game & Watch games, the card games, Illusion series, Magical Quest series)
• The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (The Konami beat 'em ups)
• Inspector Gadget (DIC's partnership with Nintendo and SEGA when making cartoons based on ther properties)
• Sailor Moon (Personal bias)
• Popeye the Sailor Man (Card games, the Arcade game and the G&Ws)
• Charlie Brown (w/ Snoopy and Woodstock) (The game & watch games)
• Kamen Rider 1/Takeshi Hongō (Nintendo made N&B Blocks based on it)

 

[Perkilator]

I thought it was established that no non-video game characters can join Smash period

There’s still hundreds of game series and characters that aren’t pet of Smash yet, even among series and companies already part of Smash.

 

[Gengar84]

I thought it was established that no non-video game characters can join Smash period

There’s still hundreds of game series and characters that aren’t pet of Smash yet, even among series and companies already part of Smash.
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It was also established that Villager couldn’t work as a fighter and Ridley was too big. I’m not saying non game characters are ever happening but I’m never going to rule anything out. My philosophy is to never view things in absolutes (only a Sith does that). Things can change if there’s enough demand for it. I’m not even necessarily advocating for it since I agree that there are tons of game characters left to choose from but I wouldn’t really be upset either if they went that route.

 

[RileyXY1]

It was also established that Villager couldn’t work as a fighter and Ridley was too big. I’m not saying non game characters are ever happening but I’m never going to rule anything out. My philosophy is to never view things in absolutes (only a Sith does that). Things can change if there’s enough demand for it. I’m not even necessarily advocating for it since I agree that there are tons of game characters left to choose from but I wouldn’t really be upset either if they went that route.

And the Smash Ballot clearly stated video game characters only. It's better if Smash remained restricted to video games only, with a strong leaning towards Japanese games.

 

[Perkilator]

It was also established that Villager couldn’t work as a fighter and Ridley was too big. I’m not saying non game characters are ever happening but I’m never going to rule anything out. My philosophy is to never view things in absolutes (only a Sith does that). Things can change if there’s enough demand for it. I’m not even necessarily advocating for it since I agree that there are tons of game characters left to choose from but I wouldn’t really be upset either if they went that route.

Villager and Ridley were purely from a gameplay perspective. They’re still video game characters.