Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[RileyXY1]

And we now have Multiversus as an "Anything Goes" crossover platform fighter.

 

[92MilesPrower]

All I’ll say on the 4th party debate is that I highly doubt we’ll ever see any non-video game characters get into Smash, as it’s always been a video game crossover game, rather than a crossover featuring characters from any form of media period. We almost had James Bond in Melee, but of course that didn’t happen, but we definitely could have seen a 4th party character in Brawl or Smash 4 if Sakurai wanted.

 

[Gengar84]

Villager and Ridley were purely from a gameplay perspective. They’re still video game characters.

True but my point was that Sakurai has changed his mind on characters before. Like I mentioned before, Smash has already shifted focus from a Nintendo crossover to a celebration of gaming. I don’t get what’s so sacred about the fact that a character originated from a video game other than the fact that Sakurai mentioned he only wanted game characters previously.

 

[fogbadge]

We almost had James Bond in Melee, but of course that didn’t happen, but we definitely could have seen a 4th party character in Brawl or Smash 4 if Sakurai wanted.

no we didn’t, what sakurai said was he’d be a licensing nightmare not that he was almost in

 

[chocolatejr9]

And we now have Multiversus as an "Anything Goes" crossover platform fighter.

And considering I keep forgetting MultiVersus exists, I doubt that'll mean much in the end...

 

[Diddy Kong]

James Bond was considered, not "almost in". But it's a fair point that there where non video game characters once considered for Smash at least.

And I don't want it to happen, but it's an easy way to topple Ultimate. And make lots of cash of course.

I think Sora is already proof that it CAN happen, even if he originated from videogames, he's still partially owned by Disney.

Anyway, it's a topic that has already strayed from it's original meaning, Goku is popular but we never had non video gaming characters in Smash before. Yet to completely rule him or others out, with so much insecurity about being able to topple Ultimate? I don't think that's wise. I'm prepared at the very least to see it happen one day.

I honestly still think that we get an enchanted port of Ultimate with "Everything Is Here" in terms of single player modes and newcomers from recent and popular Nintendo titles amongst newcomers from Sega, Capcom and Namco, with a few of them being Echoes, "Isabelles" or semi clones.

 

[Perkilator]

Anyways...here's a WIP I've been working on recently.

 

[fogbadge]

And considering I keep forgetting MultiVersus exists, I doubt that'll mean much in the end...

now now, just cause you forget about something doesn’t mean it won’t be impactful

I kept forgetting castlevania exists

 

[osby]

I think Sora is already proof that it CAN happen, even if he originated from videogames, he's still partially owned by Disney.

I mean, Banjo and Steve are owned by Microsoft but nobody is using them as proof that non-video game characters are possible.

Just because Disney doesn't mainly develop software doesn't mean that Sora is skirting over some rule loophole.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

As much as I think Goku is a god awful pick even by Non-Video Game Standards, if an Ultimate Deluxe somehow happens, I wouldn’t be shocked if Goku managed to sneak in as DLC as a last surprise, even if there are FAR better picks for Non-Video Game Characters. I mean, James Bond, Spider-Man, Team Rocket. But if any get on it’s probably Goku and I have just accepted it at this point.

Low key think Spongebob or Batman would make better non videogame character choices than Goku would be.

Because Battle for Bikini Bottom and the Arkham series are probably the best licensed games ever made.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Again, i repeat without questioning myself: Doraemon made it into a Top 10 for Melee newcomers before it was released.
I think his gadgets give him a lot of potential in the battles.

 

[fogbadge]

Again, i repeat without questioning myself: Doraemon made it into a Top 10 for Melee newcomers before it was released.
I think his gadgets give him a lot of potential in the battles.

so did toad and look how that’s going for him

 

[Gengar84]

so did toad and look how that’s going for him

I feel like the biggest reason we never got Toad as a stand-alone character is because he’s already a part of Peach’s moveset. They even recently included Toad in all of Peach’s throws so I feel like that’s Sakurai’s way of representing him.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Not wanting a character is not necessarily because of "entitlement". And you can think that a lot of people "deserve to be" or "should be" in Smash without wanting them.

Yeah, like, I had no interest in the likes of Banjo, Steve or Sora, but I can't reasonably argue that they don't deserve to be in Smash.

Because Battle for Bikini Bottom and the Arkham series are probably the best licensed games ever made.

You spelled DuckTales weird.

 

[fogbadge]

I feel like the biggest reason we never got Toad as a stand-alone character is because he’s already a part of Peach’s moveset. They even recently included Toad in all of Peach’s throws so I feel like that’s Sakurai’s way of representing him.

like that stopped chrom

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, like, I had no interest in the likes of Banjo, Steve or Sora, but I can't reasonably argue that they don't deserve to be in Smash.

I try not to concern myself too much with how much a character “deserves” to get in because I feel like that is very subjective. I never use a character’s “deservedness” to argue against their inclusion but I do sometimes bring it up to help justify why I feel some of my favorites would be cool to see.

like that stopped chrom

I think Chrom only happened because he was an easy echo of Roy. Toad would be a completely unique character and require a lot more resources.

 

[Stratos]

Before the release of Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U, I did not think Little Mac would come as a newcomer, because in Super Smash Bros Brawl he appeared as an Assist Trophy, but when I saw him as a newcomer and played him I changed my mind, the same goes for Ridley. So maybe I'll change my mind again if I see in the next game of the Super Smash Bros. series some 4th party characters come as newcomers.

 

[HyperSomari64]

You spelled DuckTales weird.

Seriously, both Scrooge McDuck and Wreck-It Ralph are better choices to represent Disney than Sora.

 

[Ivander]

I thought it was established that no non-video game characters can join Smash period

There’s still hundreds of game series and characters that aren’t pet of Smash yet, even among series and companies already part of Smash.
View attachment 352133

I don't think it's that non-video game characters "can't" join Smash Bros. But it's more like you have so many video game characters and series not yet in Smash and it feels like a non-video game character joining would just open the non-video game floodgates, making it more harder for video game characters and series that people want that aren't in Smash to make the cut.

I don't think that the non-video game character rule will hold forever, especially if Nintendo gets a hold of something popular that didn't originate as a video game. But I do see that rule staying for quite some time.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Low key think Spongebob or Batman would make better non videogame character choices than Goku would be.

Because Battle for Bikini Bottom and the Arkham series are probably the best licensed games ever made.

Lowkey, James Bond should be here. Bond not only has GOLDENEYE, but also really good run in gaming as a whole regardless of the impact Goldeneye had in Gaming.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Seriously, both Scrooge McDuck and Wreck-It Ralph are better choices to represent Disney than Sora.

Okay, okay i get ya, but counterpoint, Sora is friends with both of these characters, so by havng Sora in the game we by proxy have both of them repped.

 

[Gengar84]

Lowkey, James Bond should be here. Bond not only has GOLDENEYE, but also really good run in gaming as a whole regardless of the impact Goldeneye had in Gaming.

At least we have Joanna Dark as the gaming equivalent to James Bond. Perfect Dark even kept elements of GoldenEye like some of the stages for multiplayer.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It'd be cool if Yooka-Laylee got into Smash to. Honestly, these characters just scream and ooze Nintendo to me. I wish Nintendo could just purchase Playtonic.

 

[Gengar84]

It'd be cool if Yooka-Laylee got into Smash to. Honestly, these characters just scream and ooze Nintendo to me. I wish Nintendo could just purchase Playtonic.

Yeah, they seem like a great fit for Nintendo. I’d love to see them work on the DK series again if they’re up for it.

 

[fogbadge]

It'd be cool if Yooka-Laylee got into Smash to. Honestly, these characters just scream and ooze Nintendo to me. I wish Nintendo could just purchase Playtonic.

yes

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, they seem like a great fit for Nintendo. I’d love to see them work on the DK series again if they’re up for it.

With how much inspiration the Impossible Lair took from the Retro DKC games, am pretty sure they would love nothing more.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Honestly a Playtonic developed DKC Game would be amazing and go full circle. Maybe even add Yooka-Laylee in there as well?

 

[chocolatejr9]

It'd be cool if Yooka-Laylee got into Smash to. Honestly, these characters just scream and ooze Nintendo to me. I wish Nintendo could just purchase Playtonic.

Speaking of which, what has Playtonic been up to lately? Haven't heard from them in awhile...

Unrelated, but here's a more unique form of character deconfirmation:

Street Fighter composer says Fei Long won't appear in the series ever again https://t.co/ogpcvblZOt pic.twitter.com/NVAEwDSJUr

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) May 10, 2022

TLDR: Bruce Lee's family doesn't want anymore parodies of him, and this is Capcom's way of respecting their wishes.

 

[Stratos]

Yeah, they seem like a great fit for Nintendo. I’d love to see them work on the DK series again if they’re up for it.

And if it is possible to get the Banjo-Kazooie series from Microsoft.

 

[Perkilator]

Speaking of which, what has Playtonic been up to lately? Haven't heard from them in awhile...

Unrelated, but here's a more unique form of character deconfirmation:

Street Fighter composer says Fei Long won't appear in the series ever again https://t.co/ogpcvblZOt pic.twitter.com/NVAEwDSJUr

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) May 10, 2022

TLDR: Bruce Lee's family doesn't want anymore parodies of him, and this is Capcom's way of respecting their wishes.

Oh…I wonder how this will affect Law’s appearances in future Tekken games?

 

[Gengar84]

Oh…I wonder how this will affect Law’s appearances in future Tekken games?

I’m guessing Rock Lee and Might Guy from Naruto are gone too.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I’m guessing Rock Lee and Might Guy from Naruto are gone too.

Oh no, the only good Naruto characters.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Oh…I wonder how this will affect Law’s appearances in future Tekken games?

I’m guessing Rock Lee and Might Guy from Naruto are gone too.

Well, FWIW, this particular case seems to be specifically Capcom's response. I don't think we know yet how Bandai Namco or Shonen Jump are gonna respond.

 

[SPEN18]

I think Chrom only happened because he was an easy echo of Roy. Toad would be a completely unique character and require a lot more resources.

Yeah, Chrom only happened because he was cloneable. But that's not the point...the point is that even though being a part of Robin's moveset was the best they could do for Chrom in 4, it was not the best they could do for him in Ult and the previous decision to incorporate him into another character did not stop them from making him playable.
So, if you apply the logic to Toad, then deciding in a previous game to represent Toad through Peach's moves does not preclude them from making Toad a standalone later on, even if they didn't want to significantly alter Peach at all.

Hopefully that's not too long-winded to follow...

 

[Gengar84]

Well, FWIW, this particular case seems to be specifically Capcom's response. I don't think we know yet how Bandai Namco or Shonen Jump are gonna respond.

That’s true. There’s also Hitmonlee from Pokémon. That will be interesting to see if anything happens there. Hopefully not because it’s one of my favorite Fighting types but they did remove Kadabra from the TCG so we’ll see.

Yeah, Chrom only happened because he was cloneable. But that's not the point...the point is that even though being a part of Robin's moveset was the best they could do for Chrom in 4, it was not the best they could do for him in Ult and the previous decision to incorporate him into another character did not stop them from making him playable.
So, if you apply the logic to Toad, then deciding in a previous game to represent Toad through Peach's moves does not preclude them from making Toad a standalone later on, even if they didn't want to significantly alter Peach at all.

Hopefully that's not too long-winded to follow...

I don’t think being part of Peach’s moveset means that Toad can’t make it in on his own, just that I feel it probably makes him a lower priority in Sakurai’s eyes. If there is a huge demand for him and Toadette for the next game, I’m sure that wouldn’t stop him and Sakurai could just edit Peach so they could both make it in as separate characters.

 

[Stratos]

Capcom has made crossover games with non-video game companies as it is known and these are Marvel with which it has made several games and one with Tatsunoko and all of them are fighting games.

 

[Yamat08]

Yeah, Chrom only happened because he was cloneable. But that's not the point...the point is that even though being a part of Robin's moveset was the best they could do for Chrom in 4, it was not the best they could do for him in Ult and the previous decision to incorporate him into another character did not stop them from making him playable.
So, if you apply the logic to Toad, then deciding in a previous game to represent Toad through Peach's moves does not preclude them from making Toad a standalone later on, even if they didn't want to significantly alter Peach at all.

Hopefully that's not too long-winded to follow...

I mean, Chrom does set a precedent. Still, like many others, I'd much prefer Captain Toad over some generic one. I still remember when New Super Mario Bros. Wii was first released, having two rando Toads were NOT popular choices for playables.

 

[SPEN18]

I don’t think being part of Peach’s moveset means that Toad can’t make it in on his own, just that I feel it probably makes him a lower priority in Sakurai’s eyes.

Yeah, that is something that can be argued, at least. Although Toad could rise in priority, especially now that there aren't a lot of likely Mario reps besides Waluigi.

could just edit Peach

But if we extrapolate from the situation with Chrom, editing Peach wouldn't even be strictly necessary.

If I was designing things and Toad were playable, then I'd remove him from Peach's moveset. But Sakurai, well, he doesn't always do exactly what I personally want...

I'd much prefer Captain Toad over some generic one

I used to be more a Captain person but now I think the main one is the best choice. He's not any more generic than Yoshi and perhaps other avatar-type characters like Villager.

I still remember when New Super Mario Bros. Wii was first released, having two rando Toads were NOT popular choices for playables.

But do you think that reaction would've been the same if it was just the main red Toad? In any event, I don't think that's entirely relevant to Smash, which already has plenty of playable Mario characters that aren't playable in New SMB Wii; one Toad wouldn't be taking up nearly as much of the PC roster, proportionally speaking.

 

[Wonder Smash]

There's always going to be plenty of video game characters to put in Smash. No need to add non-video game characters. In fact, I think characters like that should have their own platform fighter. Nintendo doesn't need to throw everything in Smash.

 

[Sucumbio]

I see no reason why Toad or Captain Toad etc can't be playable. Peach using -a- toad aka Mushroom Retainer as part of a combination character move is to me just a red herring.