Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

I’m thinking it’s in part to sega pushing joker

 

[Perkilator]

Here’s my idea for an Eggman Challenger Pack:

Spoiler: Dr. Eggman Slips Through the Cracks!

Fighter: Dr. Eggman

Stage: Egg Planet Park

Music:

1. Tropical Resort (Act 1)
2. Sweet Mountain (Act 3)
3. Starlight Carnival (Act 1)
4. Planet Wisp
5. Aquarium Park (Act 1)
6. Asteroid Coaster (Act 2)
7. Terminal Velocity (Act 1)
8. Vs. Nega-Wisp Armor (Phase 2)
9. Chemical Plant Zone
10. Death Egg Robot
11. Palmtree Panic (Present)
12. Stardust Speedway (Bad Future) (JP)
13. Big Arms
14. Sky Sanctuary Zone
15. Doomsday Zone
16. Theme of Sonic 3D Blast
17. Unknown from M.E.
18. Run Through the Speed Highway
19. E.G.G.M.A.N.
20. Supporting Me
21. System Screen: Select
22. Seaside Hill / Ocean Palace
23. Egg Emperor
24. What I'm Made Of
25. Right There, Ride On
26. Back 2 Back
27. Wrapped in Black
28. I Am (All of Me)
29. Crisis City
30. Dreams of an Absolution
31. Endless Possibility
32. Vs. Egg Dragoon
33. Honeycomb Highway
34. The Deadly Six Theme
35. Sonic Mania Medley
36. Tabloid Jargon
37. Rogues Gallery
38. Hi-Spec Robo Go!
39. Built to Rule / Steel Cortex
40. Moonlight Battlefield (Aqua Road)

Spirits:

1. Dr. Eggman (Fighter Spirit)
   • Dr. Eggman
   • Classic Eggman
   • Eggrobo
2. Classic Sonic
3. Motobug
4. Knuckles
5. Mighty & Ray
6. Dr. Eggman Nega
7. Black Doom
8. Jet the Hawk
9. Mephiles the Dark
10. Erazor Djinn
11. Wisps
12. Orbot & Cubot
13. Zavok -> The Deadly Six
14. Sticks the Badger
15. Hard-Boiled Heavies
16. Custom Hero
17. Death Egg Robot

Mii Costumes

1. Axel Stone (Brawler)
2. Sakura Shinguji (Swordfighter)
3. G (Gunner)

 

[ahemtoday]

Hey thanks for reading it and offering your thoughts. I do massively disagree though with the approach of your criticism so keep that in mind if you want to read the rest of this response.

For me personally these ideas simply just have to pass the fun test and be creative approaches/implementations; either by utilizing buttons untapped/redundant (Shield-Specials/ZAIRS) in-game or something entirely unique. No character "needs" anything other than the standard kit. Anything past that is entirely subjective. Does Terry need his Go command input moves and Back-Special? Does Kazuya need his omnidirectional tilts? Does Sora need to be able to Side-Special after doing his Up-Special? Does Pikachu need to be able to Up-Special twice with one input? Do the Ice-Climbers need to be a duo? Does Cloud need to be able to actively charge his Limit by his own will? It's not an accurate portrayal of how it works in his game after all just as the time-limit nerf is also not accurate to the source material. Or is this all about making the character fun and applicable in Smash? I'd say so. Also more broadly are true combos necessary for any character?

I wasn't making the case that Banjo "needed" any of this. I was making the case on how to bring his moveset into a state that could be true to the character while making him more unique and fun to play. A lot of his fans (myself included) find his moveset to be lacking and especially in comparison with the other DLC characters. This is just how I'd personally go about it and I think it's a very inspired approach.

The idea of giving them a second set of aerials is about more fully realizing the "two that fight as one" design philosophy Sakurai was operating under when designing them by giving them something no other character has. I explained I felt it's justified with Kazooie being a bird/dragon. Again it's about what would be a fun and inspired implementation for them in Smash and no game every comes with the criteria for hard limit on aerials in Smash so I don't know what any character's game has to do with their number of aerials in Smash at all.

Similarly a Shield-Special isn't in any way a consequence of a character's game. Inkling's and Steve's Shield-Specials are a consequence of their implementation in Smash. I've also been suggesting it becomes a standard, completely grounded, special move across the entire cast among many other moves. Clockwork Kazooie eggs functioning as their Shield-Special is derived from this sentiment of mine but also the fact of reappropriated work being helpful in development with them being a complete one for one with Bowser Jr.'s Down-Special.

I don't see how Dragon Kazooie could be anything other than CSS toggle and I don't see how not needing the transformation to complete the game has even the most remote thing to do with representing the character in Smash either. It'd be a simple fun toggle option with a simple reskin for one move and one slight gameplay difference for the other that I think a lot of players would find very enjoyable in Smash. That's my priority what's fun and enjoyable versus what's "needed". Including Dragon Kazooie is just that and also a more complete representation of Banjo's limited releases. Dragon Kazooie is legitimately like the only side-quest in the series and a very fondly remembered one at that.

That all being said I still appreciate the response. I still don't at all agree with your reasoning or justifications and find your standards to be way too restrictive with them overall only serving to hamper down the fun factor of Smash implementation for seemingly no gain in particular other than some nebulous entirely subjective "need" being met. Now if you said they were unbalanced this way I could contextualize that somewhat better but that'd be an entirely different conversation with a completely different set of rebuttals of mine.

I mean, clearly this is just a difference in moveset design philosophy, so... I am not entirely certain either of us will be able to change the other's mind. (Not to imply you were expecting that to happen.)

Just to further our understanding of each other, though, please understand: these rules are an attempted formalization of how I feel about movesets. It's not that I wrote down some rules first and judge things based on them. I feel a certain way, attempt to find out why, and express it as best I can.

If you're giving everyone shield specials, then I retract my criticism of the Clockwork Eggs. I don't even consider them a gimmick in that case, it's just what the special is.

Something I think I forgot to mention in my last post is: I think a big thing with me is that I tend to prefer when gimmicks are replacements of standard character mechanics rather than additions to them. Like Mega Man's walking jab or Min Min's double arm thing.

...Y'know, come to think of it, just like you want to add shield specials to every character, I want to add a super meter and four supers (arranged like specials: neutral, side, up down) per character. I mean, they might as well be a universal thing now, right? Some characters (like Steve or Little Mac) could have unique meters instead of the standard one, but I think the standard one would be more than enough room to put everything cool about a character in there.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah, well. Lots of characters who made it to the roster have "notable issues" too. I would absolutely love Tingle, by the way: he might not be "relevant" anymore, but so are plenty of other - Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, and many more.

Wii Fit Trainer was relevant when Smash 4 was being planned, though. Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus were huge hits on Wii, and Wii Fit U was released over a year after Smash 4's roster was locked down, in 2013.

Duck Hunt is just one of Sakurai's usual wacky retro, really "surprise" characters he likes to put in every game. Really that type of character is exempt from most perceived "rules", because of their shock value.

 

[Lenidem]

Wii Fit Trainer was relevant when Smash 4 was being planned, though. Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus were huge hits on Wii, and Wii Fit U was released over a year after Smash 4's roster was locked down, in 2013.

Duck Hunt is just one of Sakurai's usual wacky retro, really "surprise" characters he likes to put in every game. Really that type of character is exempt from most perceived "rules", because of their shock value.

I'm aware of that. What I'm trying to say is : the current roster has several characters who are not "relevant", weither they were when first introduced in Smash and aren't anymore (Wii Fit Trainer...) or because they are considered "retro pics" (Duck Hunt...). So "relevancy" can be ignored if there are other factors at play.

Besides, if we're talking shock value, I think Tingle, for instance, would have shocked about as much as Piranha Plant, although for different reasons.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Embracer Group buying Ubisoft seems plausible.

 

[Chuderz]

I mean, clearly this is just a difference in moveset design philosophy, so... I am not entirely certain either of us will be able to change the other's mind. (Not to imply you were expecting that to happen.)

Just to further our understanding of each other, though, please understand: these rules are an attempted formalization of how I feel about movesets. It's not that I wrote down some rules first and judge things based on them. I feel a certain way, attempt to find out why, and express it as best I can.

If you're giving everyone shield specials, then I retract my criticism of the Clockwork Eggs. I don't even consider them a gimmick in that case, it's just what the special is.

Something I think I forgot to mention in my last post is: I think a big thing with me is that I tend to prefer when gimmicks are replacements of standard character mechanics rather than additions to them. Like Mega Man's walking jab or Min Min's double arm thing.

...Y'know, come to think of it, just like you want to add shield specials to every character, I want to add a super meter and four supers (arranged like specials: neutral, side, up down) per character. I mean, they might as well be a universal thing now, right? Some characters (like Steve or Little Mac) could have unique meters instead of the standard one, but I think the standard one would be more than enough room to put everything cool about a character in there.

No I appreciate you sharing your opinions on my post. Not everybody does that and it gives me the chance to have a conversation about it. I'm just being defensive of my precious post. I'm willing to be a little stern in my rebuttals but I mean not to be harsh.

So your supers would be kind of like Cloud's limit? Except they'd be unique moves versus a powered-up version of their usual attacks? What would they be inputted to? Diddy said something about Super Smash Specials or Super Specials I think where (if I remember correctly) would be a meter that'd empower your specials like Cloud's gimmick or I think it was like a timed empowered state where all your specials would suddenly be buffed. I thought it would be a cool idea though I'd personally just like generalized moveset expansion.

This is a post I made of my general moveset expansion ideas. It's very extensive but it's what potential for expansion I've noticed so far. Check it out if you want. I tried to be as details as I possibly could. There are some tangents about specific character shield-specials namely Cloud's.

Official - Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

That COULD work, if it weren't for the fact Capcom is also rumored to be Sony's big Japanese buy. Granted, that theory mostly stands on the fact that we don't know what platforms Street Fighter 6 is coming to, but still. It's only rumours, right? Cause I thought the people who claimed Sony was...

smashboards.com

 

[Geno Boost]

In terms of Chinese games rep in smash what if we get Azur Lan rep? The series has expanded into anime and manga and released games on switch so who would make the best pick for the series?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In terms of Chinese games rep in smash what if we get Azur Lan rep? The series has expanded into anime and manga and released games on switch so who would make the best pick for the series?

I know nothing of the series, but Unicorn is cute?

 

[osby]

In terms of Chinese games rep in smash what if we get Azur Lan rep? The series has expanded into anime and manga and released games on switch so who would make the best pick for the series?

I can see Enterprise being a good pick. She's so popular that from what I understand, they essentially used her as the face of the game in the English version.

 

[Geno Boost]

I can see Enterprise being a good pick. She's so popular that from what I understand, they essentially used her as the face of the game in the English version.

oh you just reminded me the developers actually made a popularity poll back in 2019 and these were the results https://noisypixel.net/azur-lane-reveals-top-ten-shipgirls-2019/
i am guessing this might be useful for Azur Lane smash candidate

 

[HyperSomari64]

If Geno Boost brings Azur Lane, then i can bring it's rival KanColle.

#Shimakaze4Smash

 

[PeridotGX]

In terms of Chinese games rep in smash what if we get Azur Lan rep? The series has expanded into anime and manga and released games on switch so who would make the best pick for the series?

im sorry to tell you this, but there is only one game from china. it is called genshin impact. all other "chinese" games are a hoax by the government.

 

[Geno Boost]

if we get a Mana rep wouldnt Riesz makes the most sense since she is the only one that has been in a fighting game before and already has smash spirit and she is also a spear user which brings a new playstyle to smash?

If Geno Boost brings Azur Lane, then i can bring it's rival KanColle.

#Shimakaze4Smash

has game KanColle ever been on a Nintendo system though?

 

[ahemtoday]

No I appreciate you sharing your opinions on my post. Not everybody does that and it gives me the chance to have a conversation about it. I'm just being defensive of my precious post. I'm willing to be a little stern in my rebuttals but I mean not to be harsh.

So your supers would be kind of like Cloud's limit? Except they'd be unique moves versus a powered-up version of their usual attacks? What would they be inputted to? Diddy said something about Super Smash Specials or Super Specials I think where (if I remember correctly) would be a meter that'd empower your specials like Cloud's gimmick or I think it was like a timed empowered state where all your specials would suddenly be buffed. I thought it would be a cool idea though I'd personally just like generalized moveset expansion.

This is a post I made of my general moveset expansion ideas. It's very extensive but it's what potential for expansion I've noticed so far. Check it out if you want. I tried to be as details as I possibly could. There are some tangents about specific character shield-specials namely Cloud's.

Official - Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

That COULD work, if it weren't for the fact Capcom is also rumored to be Sony's big Japanese buy. Granted, that theory mostly stands on the fact that we don't know what platforms Street Fighter 6 is coming to, but still. It's only rumours, right? Cause I thought the people who claimed Sony was...

smashboards.com

No, I was thinking they'd just be on a separate button. There's two jump buttons, so you could switch it for one of those.

(Oh, maybe it wasn't clear - this is the new version of Final Smashes, they wouldn't coexist.)

Although I was also thinking about turning ZL (currently a duplicate shield button) into a modifier trigger. By default, ZL+attack could do a smash attack, ZL+special could do the new super mechanic, and ZL+jump could do a short hop. Those are all things people have wanted separate buttons for.

Other changes I was thinking of making.

• L is now the "Rush" button. In the air, it's the airdodge replacement, being more of an airdash instead. It's a lot quicker and less committal, but isn't invincible. I was thinking on the ground it could be some kinda diet wavedash, but I'm not entirely sure on that.
• Aerial smash attacks.
• Shielding can be done in the air now. (Also, shield health is now unrelated to shield size, and is shown by cracks traveling through the shield instead.)
• Grabs and throws can be done in the air as well. Kind of necessary to add counterplay to air shielding.
• Sweetspots are much less of a thing. Almost every attack will have consistent damage across all of its hitboxes. The exceptions are on characters and moves where that's kind of the whole point (like Marth, Roy, or Ridley's Skewer).
• Between down air throws and consistent hitboxes on spikes, this game's gonna have too many ways to murder people at low percents. So, I'm bringing back meteor canceling, but only if you're below 100% when you get hit by the spike.
• Backwards ledge attacks. They can be done by hitting B while on the ledge. Your character will attack behind them and be unable to get trumped off the ledge while doing so.
• All walkoff blast lines now have KOF Stadium barriers on them.

 

[JOJONumber691]

No, I was thinking they'd just be on a separate button. There's two jump buttons, so you could switch it for one of those.

(Oh, maybe it wasn't clear - this is the new version of Final Smashes, they wouldn't coexist.)

Although I was also thinking about turning ZL (currently a duplicate shield button) into a modifier trigger. By default, ZL+attack could do a smash attack, ZL+special could do the new super mechanic, and ZL+jump could do a short hop. Those are all things people have wanted separate buttons for.

Other changes I was thinking of making.

• L is now the "Rush" button. In the air, it's the airdodge replacement, being more of an airdash instead. It's a lot quicker and less committal, but isn't invincible. I was thinking on the ground it could be some kinda diet wavedash, but I'm not entirely sure on that.
• Aerial smash attacks.
• Shielding can be done in the air now. (Also, shield health is now unrelated to shield size, and is shown by cracks traveling through the shield instead.)
• Grabs and throws can be done in the air as well. Kind of necessary to add counterplay to air shielding.
• Sweetspots are much less of a thing. Almost every attack will have consistent damage across all of its hitboxes. The exceptions are on characters and moves where that's kind of the whole point (like Marth, Roy, or Ridley's Skewer).
• Between down air throws and consistent hitboxes on spikes, this game's gonna have too many ways to murder people at low percents. So, I'm bringing back meteor canceling, but only if you're below 100% when you get hit by the spike.
• Backwards ledge attacks. They can be done by hitting B while on the ledge. Your character will attack behind them and be unable to get trumped off the ledge while doing so.
• All walkoff blast lines now have KOF Stadium barriers on them.

That sounds interesting. The KOF thing especially.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So about last page, and the talk of Zelda newcomers, no there's a clear front runner and it has always been Impa. I don't even see how Tingle could have been brought up to the discussion, it's pretty unlikely the character will ever show up again.

And thinking of Impa as a mere Sheik clone is just straight up ignorant, it's about as silly as calling Dixie a Diddy clone. Semi clone, or at worst a Ken style "Echo" is the worst they could end up. And given their popularity and prominence, they would get the Echo treatment over minor characters as Dark Samus and Daisy in Ultimate.

Personally I think the Zelda roster is in bigger need of a total rehash than the Fire Emblem roster.

 

[SPEN18]

And without Rosalina I might say.

Care to elaborate on this one? I've kind of mellowed into being fine with her, but when she was first revealed for 4 I remember being pretty against it.
She's one of those characters that a lot of people don't even think about possibly cutting, but I could see interesting arguments either for or against her.
I also still don't really like the puppet-Luma moveset, but that's a different matter.

 

[Ivander]

if we get a Mana rep wouldnt Riesz makes the most sense since she is the only one that has been in a fighting game before and already has smash spirit and she is also a spear user which brings a new playstyle to smash?

Riesz wouldn't be in because she's been in a fighting game already or because she's a spear user. She'd be in because she's easily the most popular Mana character in Japan by far.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Why does people wants Neptune for Smash ?
I know she's the protagonist, but Blanc may be unironically a better choice.
She uses a hammer and she represents Nintendo in her home series.

 

[Lenidem]

Care to elaborate on this one? I've kind of mellowed into being fine with her, but when she was first revealed for 4 I remember being pretty against it.
She's one of those characters that a lot of people don't even think about possibly cutting, but I could see interesting arguments either for or against her.
I also still don't really like the puppet-Luma moveset, but that's a different matter.

To be honest, I am biased against her. I stopped playing video games almost completely during the Wii/Wii U era, so I never played the Mario Galaxy games.

But I would argue that she is barely more than a one-off. Yes, she is now part of the spin-off crew, but I have my issues with this too. To put it in a few words, I think Rosalina is just not that important. She's just there because she's lucky to be part of the Mario franchise. There are plenty of characters whose inclusion would have brought more significant stuffs to Smash. Just in the Mario-verse, professor E.Gadd could represent the whole Luigi's Mansion branch, arguably better than Luigi whose moveset has to stay kinda close to his brother's, ans I think this sub-serie's legacy exceeds the one of the two Galaxy.

 

[Diddy Kong]

To be honest, I am biased against her. I stopped playing video games almost completely during the Wii/Wii U era, so I never played the Mario Galaxy games.

But I would argue that she is barely more than a one-off. Yes, she is now part of the spin-off crew, but I have my issues with this too. To put it in a few words, I think Rosalina is just not that important. She's just there because she's lucky to be part of the Mario franchise. There are plenty of characters whose inclusion would have brought more significant stuffs to Smash. Just in the Mario-verse, professor E.Gadd could represent the whole Luigi's Mansion branch, arguably better than Luigi whose moveset has to stay kinda close to his brother's, ans I think this sub-serie's legacy exceeds the one of the two Galaxy.

In her defence, despite not having the most prominent roles since her debut in Galaxy, Rosalina is now a Mario series mainstay, and there haven't been much since Bowser Jr., outside of her, Captain Toad and maybe Nabbit. The ones being in Smash being the more important characters overall.

Mario was also definitely lacking characters, Brawl just had Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser, it was inevitable they'd add a newcomer, and she seemed to be in the perfect spot with Bowser Jr. (and Koopalings and the return of Dr.Mario I guess).

 

[chocolatejr9]

Remember when people thought Pauline would be added because of Odyssey?

 

[fogbadge]

Remember when people thought Pauline would be added because of Odyssey?

i only remember fooling myself into think toad had a chance for 4

 

[Perkilator]

Remember when people thought Pauline would be added because of Odyssey?

Well, at least she’s notable in Smash cause of her Spirit Battle, right?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Remember when people thought Pauline would be added because of Odyssey?

She can be in the Donkey Kong section.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Well, at least she’s notable in Smash cause of her Spirit Battle, right?

cue PTSD flashback

Why are we still here... just to suffer?

 

[Lenidem]

In her defence, despite not having the most prominent roles since her debut in Galaxy, Rosalina is now a Mario series mainstay, and there haven't been much since Bowser Jr., outside of her, Captain Toad and maybe Nabbit. The ones being in Smash being the more important characters overall.

Mario was also definitely lacking characters, Brawl just had Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser, it was inevitable they'd add a newcomer, and she seemed to be in the perfect spot with Bowser Jr. (and Koopalings and the return of Dr.Mario I guess).

I guess so, but from what I've seen, this character just doesn't appeal to me. She just looks like, I don't know... space blue Peach on prozac. I cited E. Gadd as a more interesting character, I could say the same for Captain Toad, whose inclusion seemed so natural. Rosalina has become a mainstay, yes. But I wonder why. Wario and Waluigi, Daisy, or even Donkey and Diddy Kong could have done very well too. Heck, I could easily see K. Rool or Captain Syrup in a Mario game!

 

[Dinoman96]

Remember when people thought Pauline would be added because of Odyssey?

There are a lot of cases where people think a character would be added because of some new game tbh

 

[Wonder Smash]

Just realizing that Ultimate's roster was just one character away from having 8 NES platforming characters (not counting characters from the same series).

vsvsvsvsvsvs

I could have had the ultimate NES platforming showdown with as a playable character.

 

[Geno Boost]

I am not sure why people specifically wants Captain Toad he can just be an alt skin alongside Toadette and Captain Toadette for regular playable Toad
Toad moveset can simply just consist of everything Toad as a whole can do

 

[Lenidem]

Just realizing that Ultimate's roster was just one character away from having 8 NES platforming characters (not counting characters from the same series).

vsvsvsvsvsvs

I could have had the ultimate NES platforming showdown with View attachment 351236 as a playable character.

Can't you count Zelda 2 as kind of a platformer?

I am not sure why people specifically wants Captain Toad he can just be an alt skin alongside Toadette and Captain Toadette for regular playable Toad
Toad moveset can simply just consist of everything Toad as a whole can do

It doesn't really matter to me, but I think Captain Toad holds more weight as the protagonist of his eponymous sub-serie. And when you see him, you instantly know it's, well, him, and not just a generic Toad. It's not that important (see Yoshi, Pikachu...), but I think it's a plus. Besides, you get to give him a moveset with a strong theme.

 

[Dinoman96]

I kinda feel like Ryu Hayabusa ain't happening unless Ninja Gaiden gets a full blown successful revival between now and Smash 6, or alternatively there really is Banjo/Mega Man/etc levels of fan demand for him...which I kinda doubt.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Remember when people thought Pauline would be added because of Odyssey?

I mean, look at how the Mario spin-offs seem to be handling her rn. I wouldn’t be surprised if she gets in next time. Her trajectory in the series at least with the modern Pauline is mirroring Rosalina’s to an extent. I wouldn’t be shocked if she gets into the next game if her star keeps rising and she becomes a spin-off staple like Rosalina did.

In terms of Chinese games rep in smash what if we get Azur Lan rep? The series has expanded into anime and manga and released games on switch so who would make the best pick for the series?

I think if we get a rep from a Chinese game, Genshin Impact is standing head and shoulders above the competition. Genshin is huge, especially in Japan, and it shows no signs of slowing down. Legit I think Aether/Lumine from Gensin is super slept on and I would not be shocked if the next game has super mainstream picks for outside of Japan like Jinx and Aether/Lumine. Both of those picks also do a good job of pushing Nintendo’s expansion into Asia as well, so I wouldn’t be shocked.

 

[fogbadge]

I am not sure why people specifically wants Captain Toad he can just be an alt skin alongside Toadette and Captain Toadette for regular playable Toad
Toad moveset can simply just consist of everything Toad as a whole can do

because we love him

 

[Wonder Smash]

Can't you count Zelda 2 as kind of a platformer?

I did at first but that's just one game out of the two on that console and Zelda isn't really known for its platforming.

I guess I'm just going to have to do with Arthur, even if he is a Mii costume.

I kinda feel like Ryu Hayabusa ain't happening unless Ninja Gaiden gets a full blown successful revival between now and Smash 6, or alternatively there really is Banjo/Mega Man/etc levels of fan demand for him...which I kinda doubt.

He kind of already has that. After Mega Man, Simon, and (to some extent) Hero, Hayabusa is the next big NES icon with huge fan demand for him. Plus, when you consider Koei Tecmo's partnership with Nintendo that's still on-going to this day, as well as his iconic status in video games, he seems like a Smash Bros character just waiting to happen at some point.

 

[Dinoman96]

I still think the issue with Pauline is...how does she dance?

Like, what moveset could they give her that actually fits and doesn't feel forced? With at least with Rosalina, she's a powerful space deity person that also commands the Lumas, so there's a bit more to go off with her. She and her lumas are also essentially the heart of the story of at least the first Mario Galaxy.

Pauline in the context of Odyssey on the other hand, outside of singing Jump Up Superstar!...isn't really that important. She has a major role in one level and goes into the background for the rest of the game. And not only that, she doesn't really display any special skill or ability, she's just some ordinary woman who sings.

I see some people say "oh, just pair her up with Cappy!" but again that just feels forced, considering she and Cappy have virtually no relationship to each other, unlike Rosalina and the Lumas. Some people say "oh, just give her a moveset based on arcade DK, i.e have her throw barrels"...and to me, that's like giving Peach a move where she breaths fire.

 

[92MilesPrower]

I am not sure why people specifically wants Captain Toad he can just be an alt skin alongside Toadette and Captain Toadette for regular playable Toad
Toad moveset can simply just consist of everything Toad as a whole can do

Probably because of how regular Toad is still a part of Peach’s moveset, unlike Captain Toad. If it weren’t for Daisy having no association with him or any equivalent, I would’ve said that Toadsworth should still replace the regular Toad that’s in Peach’s moveset.

 

[SPEN18]

Yes, she is now part of the spin-off crew, but I have my issues with this too

Yeah I don't think she plays an important role in any of the spin-offs, does she? Like, being a recurring character is great and all but if you're barely doing anything in any of your appearances then it hardly pushes your status above one-offs.

Just in the Mario-verse, professor E.Gadd could represent the whole Luigi's Mansion branch, arguably better than Luigi whose moveset has to stay kinda close to his brother's, ans I think this sub-serie's legacy exceeds the one of the two Galaxy.

Now see, before the success of the LM sequels I would've said Galaxy's legacy was definitely bigger. And Galaxy's legacy is still pretty big. But now with LM seemingly being a continuing series for the foreseeable future with its sales ever-growing, things could be changing; these days it's more plausible to argue LM is worth giving a dedicated rep. What are your thoughts on E. Gadd vs. King Boo for such a rep?

--

I am not sure why people specifically wants Captain Toad he can just be an alt skin alongside Toadette and Captain Toadette for regular playable Toad
Toad moveset can simply just consist of everything Toad can do

I think part of it comes from the Captain Toad games being Toad's chance to actually be the main character. Many people assumed he wasn't in because he was too much of a secondary/tertiary character. And the Captain moniker also counteracted the "generic mook" label that detractors would put on Toad.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah I don't think she plays an important role in any of the spin-offs, does she? Like, being a recurring character is great and all but if you're barely doing anything in any of your appearances then it hardly pushes your status above one-offs.



Now see, before the success of the LM sequels I would've said Galaxy's legacy was definitely bigger. And Galaxy's legacy is still pretty big. But now with LM seemingly being a continuing series for the foreseeable future with its sales ever-growing, things could be changing; these days it's more plausible to argue LM is worth giving a dedicated rep. What are your thoughts on E. Gadd vs. King Boo for such a rep?

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I think part of it comes from the Captain Toad games being Toad's chance to actually be the main character. Many people assumed he wasn't in because he was too much of a secondary/tertiary character. And the Captain moniker also counteracted the "generic mook" label that detractors would put on Toad.

non captain toad has been the star of two games