Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Lenidem]

Not gonna lie , Captain Toad looks pretty damn cool with such a moveset. I'd love for him to make it on the roster despite never playing his games. Seems well deserved at this point, and am honestly confused as to why they opted for Piranha Plant instead of him.

I'll even go as far and mention Captain Toad amongst the first party characters I feel are most deserving for inclusion, so far I always said it was Dixie, Impa and Bandana Dee, but Captain Toad belongs there too I feel.

I totally agree. Except maybe on Impa, but that's a whole topic.

 

[fogbadge]

Not gonna lie , Captain Toad looks pretty damn cool with such a moveset. I'd love for him to make it on the roster despite never playing his games. Seems well deserved at this point, and am honestly confused as to why they opted for Piranha Plant instead of him.

I'll even go as far and mention Captain Toad amongst the first party characters I feel are most deserving for inclusion, so far I always said it was Dixie, Impa and Bandana Dee, but Captain Toad belongs there too I feel.

well if you look at all of sakurais reasons he gave for PP it does sound like he was wanted to include a mario enemy and then just picked whomever he felt like

 

[Diddy Kong]

I totally agree. Except maybe on Impa, but that's a whole topic.

Bring the topic, she's easily the character am most passionate about from all listed, including Dixie (because I feel despite her being the most deserving, Cranky Kong will likely make it over her due to the Mario Movie appearance establishing him as Arcade DK once and for all).

So far, Zelda didn't have a newcomer because "everyone is a one-off or Tingle", but Impa challenges that, has been around since the very first game, and the latest, and has had multiple important appearances.

Her most popular one being from Age of Calamity, and yes despite being a spin off, it's one to an actual Zelda game, promoted by Nintendo as a "prequel" (with it's own issues). So yes despite original Hyrule Warriors being overlooked, this one definitely should challenge that, as it's also the most popular and best selling Warriors games to date. And it inspired Fire Emblem Warriors Three Hopes to be made, another spin off to a highly acclaimed Nintendo title.

And to top that, Breath of the Wild and Three Houses where the most ambitious and most popular Zelda and Fire Emblem series to date.

So I argue that Impa should indeed get in, based on her Age of Calamity appearance. Which would fit nicely with BotW Link. And in case of there being cuts, I think Sheik and either Toon Link or Young Link are quite likely to go (Young Link more so than Toon Link). In that case Impa would fill the gaps of having lesser Zelda characters.

 

[92MilesPrower]

As cool as Kamek would be, the issue I see with him getting in is Ashley being a much more popular character and having basically the same moveset potential Kamek would have, both being spellcasters with brooms. If Ashley were to get in as a playable character (which is pretty likely, given how popular she is), then Kamek could end up being seen as redundant, unfortunately.

 

[dream1ng]

well if you look at all of sakurais reasons he gave for PP it does sound like he was wanted to include a mario enemy and then just picked whomever he felt like

Well, really, it seems like he wanted to add another wtf character, but a wtf character people would be very familiar with.

So Captain Toad wouldn't have got past that first hurdle, he wouldn't qualify as a surprise character.

As cool as Kamek would be, the issue I see with him getting in is Ashley being a much more popular character and having basically the same moveset potential Kamek would have, both being spellcasters with brooms. If Ashley were to get in as a playable character (which is pretty likely, given how popular she is), then Kamek could end up being seen as redundant, unfortunately.

Magic is even more variable than swordplay is, and it's not like, despite the complaints, we've actually exhausted the potential for uniqueness from that arsenal. They could definitely be differentiated, especially if Ashley uses Red.

I do agree Ashley is likelier than Kamek though. I think Kamek mostly gets requested when he does get requested simply to bump the Yoshi count up, but Ashley gets requested mostly because people genuinely like Ashley, which is why the latter popularity exists much more strongly, and the former popularity never really breaks through.

Past that, I'd just be surprised if Kamek got in. I see him as more or less simmering below the surface of likelihood, while Ashley will presumably regain her popularity and will again be a plausible contender for next time. Though if WarioWare doesn't keep getting games that'd make things harder for her.

 

[AEMehr]

you can argue kamek should be in smash like he should be in mario kart, but we could also just agree that the next yoshi character they should add is shy guy because honestly everybody just loves the guy

 

[Yamat08]

I think for some fans, it's not even a case where they must have six or more reps from the various franchises, just that it actually feels off to not have a few particular prominent characters like Dixie, BWD, & Impa in; the difference between mild disappointment of not seeing one-shots from an IP get a chance vs a sense that the franchise's representation in Smash genuinely feels incomplete.

Granted, what counts as a "prominent character" can vary wildly from person to person, not to mention the fact that characters who do eventually find their way into Smash typically have other factors going for them on top of their prominence. I mean, it's kinda why Smash speculation views literally hundreds of characters as competing for a spot on the roster in the first place.

I guess in the case of my MWs, I do strongly feel this way about KOS-MOS (not just as a playable character, but even as a Mii costume or a Spirit, neither of those happening with a Challenger Pack based around a game she appears in, no less). Given the increasing prominence of Xenoblade, as well as the increasing prevelance of Monolith as a company under Nintendo, it does seem remiss for Smash to not include a major character from their earlier roots, all the more so since the company that owns the rights to her is also the company working on Smash's development (incidentally, that was another reason I started pushing for her: at the time, Bandai Namco had so little of their own representation, and even now, they still only have two Fighters).

Likewise, Reimu is the star of a MAJORLY popular and long-running series of indie games....... yet somehow, BIT.TRIP, Shovel Knight (Nintendo-published, granted), Shantae, Undertale, Minecraft (though, does that still count as indie by this point?), and even Cuphead all managed to beat out Touhou Project in getting to be in Smash. My other MWs, though, I could acknowledge are more just my personal choices and don't seem like particularly glaring omissions: Lip's just one of many other classic Nintendo characters vying to get in (though at least she got a Mii costume). Terra just because Final Fantasy VI is my favorite in the franchise (though the fact that Sakurai himself name-dropped her does kinda make it seem like she might've had a chance..... but regardless of whether it's Terra or someone else, I just want Final Fantasy to get ANYTHING outside of VII). And I KNOW that Lana's a hot take (more so given the discourse of potential Zelda characters which was brought up in just the last couple pages of this thread), but still, given Koei Tecmo's ongoing line of games based off of Nintendo IPs, a notable original character from one of them would be a nice way of representing them (plus, she a cutie ^^).

 

[fogbadge]

Well, really, it seems like he wanted to add another wtf character, but a wtf character people would be very familiar with.

that wasnt the only reason he gave. he also said stuff along the lines of adding in a minor villain

 

[92MilesPrower]

that wasnt the only reason he gave. he also said stuff along the lines of adding in a minor villain

But PP is honestly not a minor villain, he’s a generic enemy grunt character. I’d say a character like Petey or Boom Boom would count as a minor villain.

 

[Dukefire]

Honestly, Sakurai destroyed so many fan created roadblocks with Ultimate's run. Anything goes for the next title if Sakurai is willing to go another round in the near future (except for any characters that did not originate from a video game. AKA fourth party).

Still, questions are:
Will the Mii costumes in Ultimate be transferred over with the possibility that some might get promoted to fighter status? (Geno perhaps?)
Will an indie character make it to fighter status? They have made an impact in Mii Costumes and Assist Trophy after trophy/spirit status. So, their presence cannot be ignored.
What third party mascots might make it this time?
Any characters cuts? I know this collaboration was crazy with Disney as the last one, but it looks like a one and done deal if another game is coming. Who do you think might get the cut?
Potential new characters from games being released?
Where will the Super Smash Bros series go from here? Ultimate seems to be the game that no other sequel will be able to top off. Unless Sakurai does another trick to blow our minds.

 

[fogbadge]

But PP is honestly not a minor villain, he’s a generic enemy grunt character. I’d say a character like Petey or Boom Boom would count as a minor villain.

it was the wording he used

 

[SPEN18]

As cool as Kamek would be, the issue I see with him getting in is Ashley being a much more popular character and having basically the same moveset potential Kamek would have, both being spellcasters with brooms. If Ashley were to get in as a playable character (which is pretty likely, given how popular she is), then Kamek could end up being seen as redundant, unfortunately.

Just because two characters might share an archetype doesn't mean at all that they'd have the same moveset.

And the reasons for inclusion would be different: Kamek would get in for his role as a main antagonist for Yoshi (existing within mainline Mario also helps, although being explicitly for Yoshi is the way he would get chosen over other Mario reps), while Ashley would get in basically due to popularity. It's being role-important vs. being popular.

The reasons they wouldn't get in are also not the same: Kamek is not as popular in the Smash setting and despite having a role as primary antagonist we've debated how memorable he is in that role; on the other hand, Ashley deals with serious side-character syndrome and despite her popularity she is largely outclassed by a select few such as Isaac and Dee, with others like Krystal also on a competitive level with her.
One is role-important but arguably struggles to stand out in that role; the other is popular but arguably fails to reach the highest echelons of demand.
The main thing in common, IMO, is that both suffer from an apparent hesitancy to expand representation for their respective series/subseries of Yoshi and WarioWare.

 

[Perkilator]

If Celica could only be a base game Echo cause of time, than I could see her being a Robin Echo that’s a mix of Marth, Roy and Robin. I’m currently working on a moveset, but here’s my general idea:

B : Seraphim; Celica charges an angelic orb of light
B + Forwards : Excalibur; Celica shoots a pillar of wind that launches opponents upward
B + Up : Ragnarok; Celica lunges upward with her sword set ablaze
B + Down : Nosferatu; Celica grabs the opponent and saps their health, but as a single hit

Final Smash: Ragnarok Ω; Celica unleashes a devastatingly powerful fire spell in a large area in front of her

 

[Laniv]

I still think the issue with Pauline is...how does she dance?

Like, what moveset could they give her that actually fits and doesn't feel forced? With at least with Rosalina, she's a powerful space deity person that also commands the Lumas, so there's a bit more to go off with her. She and her lumas are also essentially the heart of the story of at least the first Mario Galaxy.

Pauline in the context of Odyssey on the other hand, outside of singing Jump Up Superstar!...isn't really that important. She has a major role in one level and goes into the background for the rest of the game. And not only that, she doesn't really display any special skill or ability, she's just some ordinary woman who sings.

I see some people say "oh, just pair her up with Cappy!" but again that just feels forced, considering she and Cappy have virtually no relationship to each other, unlike Rosalina and the Lumas. Some people say "oh, just give her a moveset based on arcade DK, i.e have her throw barrels"...and to me, that's like giving Peach a move where she breaths fire.

Well, she busts out some moves during the big musical number, so I'd say she dances pretty well.

But seriously, though, I believe she could make like Rosalina and use mechanics from Odyssey, throwing her cap for certain attacks. Then the rest of her moveset could be supplemented with using the rest of her history, like using the Mini-Toys from Mario vs. Donkey Kong like C chocolatejr9 mentioned.

I, personally, made a moveset that pulls from all of her history, from Donkey Kong all the way up to Odyssey:

Spoiler: large images

 

[Perkilator]

If Celica could only be a base game Echo cause of time, than I could see her being a Robin Echo that’s a mix of Marth, Roy and Robin. I’m currently working on a moveset, but here’s my general idea:

B : Seraphim; Celica charges an angelic orb of light
B + Forwards : Excalibur; Celica shoots a pillar of wind that launches opponents upward
B + Up : Ragnarok; Celica lunges upward with her sword set ablaze
B + Down : Nosferatu; Celica grabs the opponent and saps their health, but as a single hit

Final Smash: Ragnarok Ω; Celica unleashes a devastatingly powerful fire spell in a large area in front of her

Decided to expand upon this

Spoiler: Celica moveset

Intro: Celica appears from a Warp circle through red smoke

Stance/Idle 1: Her idle stance from Shadows of Valentia
Idle 2: Celica lowers her sword and looks upward, loosely mimicking her artwork from Gaiden
Idle 3: Celica puts her left hand on her sword and points it upward

Notable Palette Swaps:

1. Celica (default)
2. Alm (blue)
3. Mae (pink)
4. Boey (green)
5. Saber (brown)
6. Enemy Priestess (red)
7. Witch (purple)
8. Gaiden Celica (yellow)

Walk: Her run animation from Shadows of Valentia
Dash: Her dash animation from Shadows of Valentia
Damage: Her damage animation from Shadows of Valentia
Jump: Jumps and double jumps similarly to Marth
Crouch: Celica crouches with her sword pointing down to the ground

Normal Attacks
Jab: Combination Flurry; Celica slashes twice (4%), creates a wind flurry (1% each hit; .1% recoil), then finishes with a small explosion (7%, small knockback; 1% recoil)
Forward+A: Hard Edge; Celica performs a fast upward swipe while leaning forward (8%, small knockback)
Down+A: Celica performs a crouching, outward slash (5%, small knockback)
Up+A: Celica performs an inward turning, upward slash (6%, small knockback)

Aerial Attacks
Air+A: Double Slash; Celica performs two horizontal slashes around herself (6%, small knockback)
Air Forward+A: Flag Cut; Celica performs a descending crescent slash in front of herself (11%, OK knockback)
Air Back + A: About Face; Celica performs an upward crescent slash behind herself (9%, OK knockback)
Air Up+A: Condense Blast; Celica extends her arm and creates a fire burst (15%, OK knockback; 2% recoil)
Air Down+A: Halfmoon; Celica performs a horizontally downward crescent slash below herself (12%, OK knockback)

Dash Attack: Her running finish animation from Shadows of Valentia (9%, OK knockback)
Edge Attack: Celica backflips onto the stage and slashes (9%, OK knockback)
Get-Up Attack: Celica erupts in a heavenly light (10%, OK knockback)

Smash Attacks
Forward+A: Sunder; Celica rotates her body counterclockwise with a strong one-handed slash (14%, OK knockback)
Up+A: Flame Sword; Celica raises her blazing blade above herself, hitting the opponent multiple times (17%, OK knockback; 4% recoil)
Down+A: Whirlwind; Celica slashes downward on both sides of herself (8% each hit, OK knockback)

Grab Game
Grab: Celica uses magic to grab the opponent
Pummel: Celica uses a small blast of magic (2%)
Forwards+Throw: Shove; Celica does an elbow strike with her sword arm (5%, OK knockback)
Down+Throw: Thunder; Celica calls down Thunder from above (12%, OK knockback; 3% recoil)
Back+Throw: Celica turns around and magically tosses the opponent behind herself (11%, OK knockback)
Up+Throw: Celica magically heaves the opponent upwards (9%, OK knockback)

Special Moves
B : Seraphim; Celica charges an angelic orb of light in four stages

• The first stage is a small blast of light (5%, small knockback; 1% recoil)
• The second stage is a slightly larger blast of light (11%, OK knockback; 2% recoil)
• The third stage is a slower but larger projectile that briefly paralyzes opponents (17%, OK knockback; 3% recoil)
• The last stage is a powerful projectile with quite a bit of startup and endlag (26%, medium knockback; 5% recoil)

B + Forwards : Excalibur; Celica shoots a pillar of wind that launches opponents upward (14%, OK knockback; 3% recoil)
B + Up : Ragnarok; Celica soars upward with her sword set ablaze (15%, OK knockback; 5% recoil)
B + Down : Nosferatu; Celica grabs the opponent and saps their health, but only as a single hit (10%, OK knockback); how much Celica heals is based on how much damage she has compared to the opponent.

Final Smash: Ragnarok Ω; Celica summons a ring of five fire that pulls in opponents (20%; 10% recoil). She then follows up with an explosion of fire (24%, far knockback; 10% recoil)

Gimmick: Celica takes slight recoil damage when using special moves.

Taunts
1: Celica loosely mimics her official artwork pose from Shadows of Valentia
2: “I am yours to shape, Mother Mila.” Celica holds her sword up in the air, mimicking her map sprite from Shadows of Valentia
1+2: “I fight to protect what is dear.” Celica loosely mimics her pose from Gaiden

Winposes
1: “All thanks to the Mother.” Celica's Priestess victory animation from Shadows of Valentia
2: “May the Earth Mother watch over us.” Celica performs the conclusion to her victory animation from Warriors
3: “Mila has seen us through safely.” Celica's Rigain victory animation from Shadows of Valentia

Applause: Celica claps for the opponent
Icon: The Fire Emblem series icon
Boxing Ring Title: The Exiled Priestess
Star K.O.: “How can this be…!?”
Victory Music: https://youtu.be/o0l6BSZURKE
Kirby Hat: Celica’s hair

 

[Laniv]

Decided to expand upon this

Spoiler: Celica moveset

Intro: Celica appears from a Warp circle through red smoke

Stance/Idle 1: Her idle stance from Shadows of Valentia
Idle 2: Celica lowers her sword and looks upward, loosely mimicking her artwork from Gaiden
Idle 3: Celica puts her left hand on her sword and points it upward

Notable Palette Swaps:

1. Celica (default)
2. Alm (blue)
3. Mae (pink)
4. Boey (green)
5. Saber (brown)
6. Enemy Priestess (red)
7. Witch (purple)
8. Gaiden Celica (yellow)

Walk: Her run animation from Shadows of Valentia
Dash: Her dash animation from Shadows of Valentia
Damage: Her damage animation from Shadows of Valentia
Jump: Jumps and double jumps similarly to Marth
Crouch: Celica crouches with her sword pointing down to the ground

Normal Attacks
Jab: Combination Flurry; Celica slashes twice (4%), creates a wind flurry (1% each hit; .1% recoil), then finishes with a small explosion (7%, small knockback; 1% recoil)
Forward+A: Hard Edge; Celica performs a fast upward swipe while leaning forward (8%, small knockback)
Down+A: Celica performs a crouching, outward slash (5%, small knockback)
Up+A: Celica performs an inward turning, upward slash (6%, small knockback)

Aerial Attacks
Air+A: Double Slash; Celica performs two horizontal slashes around herself (6%, small knockback)
Air Forward+A: Flag Cut; Celica performs a descending crescent slash in front of herself (11%, OK knockback)
Air Back + A: About Face; Celica performs an upward crescent slash behind herself (9%, OK knockback)
Air Up+A: Condense Blast; Celica extends her arm and creates a fire burst (15%, OK knockback; 2% recoil)
Air Down+A: Halfmoon; Celica performs a horizontally downward crescent slash below herself (12%, OK knockback)

Dash Attack: Her running finish animation from Shadows of Valentia (9%, OK knockback)
Edge Attack: Celica backflips onto the stage and slashes (9%, OK knockback)
Get-Up Attack: Celica erupts in a heavenly light (10%, OK knockback)

Smash Attacks
Forward+A: Sunder; Celica rotates her body counterclockwise with a strong one-handed slash (14%, OK knockback)
Up+A: Flame Sword; Celica raises her blazing blade above herself, hitting the opponent multiple times (17%, OK knockback; 4% recoil)
Down+A: Whirlwind; Celica slashes downward on both sides of herself (8% each hit, OK knockback)

Grab Game
Grab: Celica uses magic to grab the opponent
Pummel: Celica uses a small blast of magic (2%)
Forwards+Throw: Shove; Celica does an elbow strike with her sword arm (5%, OK knockback)
Down+Throw: Thunder; Celica calls down Thunder from above (12%, OK knockback; 3% recoil)
Back+Throw: Celica turns around and magically tosses the opponent behind herself (11%, OK knockback)
Up+Throw: Celica magically heaves the opponent upwards (9%, OK knockback)

Special Moves
B : Seraphim; Celica charges an angelic orb of light in four stages

• The first stage is a small blast of light (5%, small knockback; 1% recoil)
• The second stage is a slightly larger blast of light (11%, OK knockback; 2% recoil)
• The third stage is a slower but larger projectile that briefly paralyzes opponents (17%, OK knockback; 3% recoil)
• The last stage is a powerful projectile with quite a bit of startup and endlag (26%, medium knockback; 5% recoil)

B + Forwards : Excalibur; Celica shoots a pillar of wind that launches opponents upward (14%, OK knockback; 3% recoil)
B + Up : Ragnarok; Celica soars upward with her sword set ablaze (15%, OK knockback; 5% recoil)
B + Down : Nosferatu; Celica grabs the opponent and saps their health, but only as a single hit (10%, OK knockback); how much Celica heals is based on how much damage she has compared to the opponent.

Final Smash: Ragnarok Ω; Celica summons a ring of five fire that pulls in opponents (20%; 10% recoil). She then follows up with an explosion of fire (24%, far knockback; 10% recoil)

Gimmick: Celica takes slight recoil damage when using special moves.

Taunts
1: Celica loosely mimics her official artwork pose from Shadows of Valentia
2: “I am yours to shape, Mother Mila.” Celica holds her sword up in the air, mimicking her map sprite from Shadows of Valentia
1+2: “I fight to protect what is dear.” Celica loosely mimics her pose from Gaiden

Winposes
1: “All thanks to the Mother.” Celica's Priestess victory animation from Shadows of Valentia
2: “May the Earth Mother watch over us.” Celica performs the conclusion to her victory animation from Warriors
3: “Mila has seen us through safely.” Celica's Rigain victory animation from Shadows of Valentia

Applause: Celica claps for the opponent
Icon: The Fire Emblem series icon
Boxing Ring Title: The Exiled Priestess
Star K.O.: “How can this be…!?”
Victory Music: https://youtu.be/o0l6BSZURKE
Kirby Hat: Celica’s hair

Man, I kinda want Celica in Smash now, nice job

 

[dream1ng]

that wasnt the only reason he gave. he also said stuff along the lines of adding in a minor villain

Those are strange grounds on which to want to add a character. Can I get a source?

 

[fogbadge]

Those are strange grounds on which to want to add a character. Can I get a source?

hold on

Verde Coeden Scalesworth where'd you get those links about sakurai talking about PP?

 

[dream1ng]

Honestly, Sakurai destroyed so many fan created roadblocks with Ultimate's run. Anything goes for the next title if Sakurai is willing to go another round in the near future (except for any characters that did not originate from a video game. AKA fourth party).

Still, questions are:
Will the Mii costumes in Ultimate be transferred over with the possibility that some might get promoted to fighter status? (Geno perhaps?)

If the Miis return (which is probable if they're making good money on the costumes), then yes, many probably will. But not all. And the third-party ones you will likely need to buy again, some for the third time.

And I have to imagine at least one costume will become a playable character. Probably more than one.

Will an indie character make it to fighter status? They have made an impact in Mii Costumes and Assist Trophy after trophy/spirit status. So, their presence cannot be ignored.

I'd give this the odds, yes.

What third party mascots might make it this time?

Well, which third-party mascots are left? And mascots of entire companies, or a certain part within a company? A character like Master Chief is undoubtably a mascot, but is a character like Ryu Hayabusa a mascot, or is he just KT's biggest character?

Any characters cuts? I know this collaboration was crazy with Disney as the last one, but it looks like a one and done deal if another game is coming. Who do you think might get the cut?

Oh, for sure at least some. Sakurai has repeatedly said this is untenable.

And people keep pointing fingers at Sora because he was dicey to land, but that's totally different criteria than whether they can get him back. It was hard to land Sonic the first time, they failed to get Snake back in 4, it sounds like it was tough to get Cloud back in base, but all those characters returned. Once the bridge is built, the process is different.

Potential new characters from games being released?

Well there's going to be Pokemon and FE, but I'm more interested in whether characters from Ring Fit, Astral Chain, and games like that make it.

Where will the Super Smash Bros series go from here? Ultimate seems to be the game that no other sequel will be able to top off. Unless Sakurai does another trick to blow our minds.

I think just tacking on more mass to this game isn't a route they feel they can just continue down, so it'll have to branch out in a new direction.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

hold on

Verde Coeden Scalesworth where'd you get those links about sakurai talking about PP?

Google or Source Gaming, generally.

"Sakurai selected Piranha Plant because a game full of protagonists and major players isn’t terribly interesting. A lineup full of plain-old heroes is boring. Just like Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt, Piranha Plant brings something special and unique to the roster. He anticipates Piranha Plant to be a rather unconventional fighter. "

That said, you are remembering it a bit off.

Sakurai Tells More Details About Smash Ultimate’s Development

Sakurai discusses Ultimate’s character selection, Smash as an e-sport and more!

sourcegaming.info

 

[fogbadge]

Google or Source Gaming, generally.

"Sakurai selected Piranha Plant because a game full of protagonists and major players isn’t terribly interesting. A lineup full of plain-old heroes is boring. Just like Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt, Piranha Plant brings something special and unique to the roster. He anticipates Piranha Plant to be a rather unconventional fighter. "

That said, you are remembering it a bit off.

Sakurai Tells More Details About Smash Ultimate’s Development

Sakurai discusses Ultimate’s character selection, Smash as an e-sport and more!

sourcegaming.info

in fairness its been a while

 

[HyperSomari64]

(except for any characters that did not originate from a video game. AKA fourth party)

Unless Dragon Ball's loose version of the Monkey King (Sun Wu Kong) was the first character revealed and the internet as a whole will go nuts.

 

[Gengar84]

Google or Source Gaming, generally.

"Sakurai selected Piranha Plant because a game full of protagonists and major players isn’t terribly interesting. A lineup full of plain-old heroes is boring. Just like Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt, Piranha Plant brings something special and unique to the roster. He anticipates Piranha Plant to be a rather unconventional fighter. "

That said, you are remembering it a bit off.

Sakurai Tells More Details About Smash Ultimate’s Development

Sakurai discusses Ultimate’s character selection, Smash as an e-sport and more!

sourcegaming.info

I completely agree with this. It is a little boring getting nothing but main protagonists all the time, especially all the avatar characters from recent games. Villains, secondary characters, and even random enemies like Piranha Plant are a really nice change of pace.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I completely agree with this. It is a little boring getting nothing but main protagonists all the time, especially all the avatar characters from recent games. Villains, secondary characters, and even random enemies like Piranha Plant are a really nice change of pace.

Though in this particular case, major players were also included in the "would be nice to not have". So any notable villain was something he didn't want either for this slot.

...So where's Waluigi then. He fits. I mean, he starts off the plot in one spin-off at best, but for the most part, he's not really treated as a major player in those games. Maybe. Depends how you look at it. He certainly has story bits, but even Mario Party 3 doesn't really have the various "VS Character" parts as major. It's more the person who is running the entire game that's major and Bowser at best(and your current player character... which cannot be Waluigi or Daisy, funny that).

Either way, it's nice to have more variety. Though I'd have picked Shy Guy, taking notes from the entire set of games. Interestingly enough, PP did take notes from the rpg's, including Paper Mario-exclusive stuff. And that's not counting the Palutena's Guidance which references Super Mario RPG.

 

[Gengar84]

Though in this particular case, major players were also included in the "would be nice to not have". So any notable villain was something he didn't want either for this slot.

...So where's Waluigi then. He fits. I mean, he starts off the plot in one spin-off at best, but for the most part, he's not really treated as a major player in those games. Maybe. Depends how you look at it. He certainly has story bits, but even Mario Party 3 doesn't really have the various "VS Character" parts as major. It's more the person who is running the entire game that's major and Bowser at best(and your current player character... which cannot be Waluigi or Daisy, funny that).

Either way, it's nice to have more variety. Though I'd have picked Shy Guy, taking notes from the entire set of games. Interestingly enough, PP did take notes from the rpg's, including Paper Mario-exclusive stuff. And that's not counting the Palutena's Guidance which references Super Mario RPG.

Waluigi makes a ton of sense and certainly has a lot of fan demand. I wouldn’t be surprised if he makes it into the next Smash. I’ve always loved Goombas so that would have been my personal choice for the random enemy slot. Hopefully we’ll get more similar types of characters every now and then in the future.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Well, she busts out some moves during the big musical number, so I'd say she dances pretty well.

But seriously, though, I believe she could make like Rosalina and use mechanics from Odyssey, throwing her cap for certain attacks. Then the rest of her moveset could be supplemented with using the rest of her history, like using the Mini-Toys from Mario vs. Donkey Kong like C chocolatejr9 mentioned.

I, personally, made a moveset that pulls from all of her history, from Donkey Kong all the way up to Odyssey:

Spoiler: large images

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I'm sorry but I'm really not a fan of this moveset. You can argue that Rosalina also does stuff that normally Mario do in the Galaxy games, but at least in those games she was always heavily associated with the Luma. Cappy and the barrel were never associated with Pauline aside from the fact that they appeared in the same game. Would it make sense for a Shy guy to have Kamek wand because both are associated with Yoshi games in general?

 

[SPEN18]

It would be kinda funny to see Pauline throwing barrels in Smash before Donkey Kong...

Laniv there are some pretty nice ideas in that moveset, though.

 

[Yamat08]

Either way, it's nice to have more variety. Though I'd have picked Shy Guy, taking notes from the entire set of games. Interestingly enough, PP did take notes from the rpg's, including Paper Mario-exclusive stuff. And that's not counting the Palutena's Guidance which references Super Mario RPG.

I could see how Shy Guy might have potential as a playable mook, but honestly, I'm kinda glad that Sakurai went with Pirahna Plant as the first (of potentially more?) in the end. It's a long-time enemy, yet at the same time, it's less iconic than the likes of Goomba, Koopa Troopa, and even Shy Guy (in fact, outside of Mario Odyssey's Cappie mechanic, I don't think Plant's even had a playable appearance up to that point). And given that they were working with a stationary enemy that's mostly known for just biting, it's nice to see how creative they managed to get with it. In contrast, Shy Guy is short, but nevertheless has a pretty standard body type of two arms and two legs, so it already has a bit to work with.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I could see how Shy Guy might have potential as a playable mook, but honestly, I'm kinda glad that Sakurai went with Pirahna Plant as the first (of potentially more?) in the end. It's a long-time enemy, yet at the same time, it's less iconic than the likes of Goomba, Koopa Troopa, and even Shy Guy (in fact, outside of Mario Odyssey's Cappie mechanic, I don't think Plant's even had a playable appearance up to that point). And given that they were working with a stationary enemy that's mostly known for just biting, it's nice to see how creative they managed to get with it. In contrast, Shy Guy is short, but nevertheless has a pretty standard body type of two arms and two legs, so it already has a bit to work with.

It's more there's tons of species of Shy Guy with tons of unique moves. Even the Bandits are basically subspecies, giving lots of options. I also really love the character, especially since Paper Mario made them even more interesting. Fair point, though. PP stands out more on the uniqueness scale. I'm guessing Goomba had a lot less to work with anyway, due to the odd bodyshape and a serious lack of abilities throughout the various Mario games. Koopa Troopa is very different in that regard, having lots of options too.

But I can't disagree with your point about how unique PP is. Also, it's not always stationary, as shown in Paper Mario(which it did give some of them more movement options to some degree). Albeit, most of it is being able to pop up anywhere in the ground, not being hardcoded to a pipe, which is a start.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Okay guys, hear me out: Pokey.

Y'know, the cactus.

 

[Perkilator]

It would be kinda funny to see Pauline throwing barrels in Smash before Donkey Kong...

Well technically he can already do that with the item

Hear me out; Cranky Kong Assist Trophy that throws barrels from the top of the screen.

 

[Laniv]

I'm sorry but I'm really not a fan of this moveset. You can argue that Rosalina also does stuff that normally Mario do in the Galaxy games, but at least in those games she was always heavily associated with the Luma. Cappy and the barrel were never associated with Pauline aside from the fact that they appeared in the same game. Would it make sense for a Shy guy to have Kamek wand because both are associated with Yoshi games in general?

Fair, but it's not as if Smash hasn't taken certain liberties with other characters. Look at Isabelle, she's not associated with fishing at all, and she, not Villager, is the one with the fishing pole move. Meanwhile, half of Duck Hunt's specials aren't even from Duck Hunt.

Also, regarding the Shy Guy using a Magikoopa wand... that actually happened once!

So it's not too far-fetched.

 

[fogbadge]

Fair, but it's not as if Smash hasn't taken certain liberties with other characters. Look at Isabelle, she's not associated with fishing at all, and she, not Villager, is the one with the fishing pole move. Meanwhile, half of Duck Hunt's specials aren't even from Duck Hunt.

isabelle has fished. in that spin off only i seemed to have played a better example of creative liberty is the fact that she use lloyd as a rocket

 

[PeridotGX]

I'm sorry but I'm really not a fan of this moveset. You can argue that Rosalina also does stuff that normally Mario do in the Galaxy games, but at least in those games she was always heavily associated with the Luma. Cappy and the barrel were never associated with Pauline aside from the fact that they appeared in the same game. Would it make sense for a Shy guy to have Kamek wand because both are associated with Yoshi games in general?

I feel like it would make more sense for Kamek to summon Shy Guys. Magikoopas are known for summoning generic enemies, and Kamek is usually in a leadership position.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Okay, I know we've all agreed that Square Enix is a bit hard to work with (though admittedly, it's not entirely their fault), but here's some more fuel for that fire:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Not gonna lie, didn't expect more Balan Wonderworld drama in 2022...

 

[fogbadge]

Okay, I know we've all agreed that Square Enix is a bit hard to work with (though admittedly, it's not entirely their fault), but here's some more fuel for that fire:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Not gonna lie, didn't expect more Balan Wonderworld drama in 2022...

yes it’s quite a turn up for the books

 

[PeridotGX]

Okay, I know we've all agreed that Square Enix is a bit hard to work with (though admittedly, it's not entirely their fault), but here's some more fuel for that fire:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Not gonna lie, didn't expect more Balan Wonderworld drama in 2022...

Balan Wonderworld director's cut is going to be the best game of all time, and sell 3 trillion units

 

[Guynamednelson]

Balan Wonderworld director's cut is going to be the best game of all time, and sell 3 trillion units

The first video game to be rated 900/10 by IGN and GameSpot. Balan Wonderworld truly is one of the video games.

 

[Gengar84]

Balan Wonderworld director's cut is going to be the best game of all time, and sell 3 trillion units

I unironically like the design for the main character of Balan Wonderworld. For some reason, until a few months ago, I always though the game was called Balan Wonderland. I have no idea what made me think that lol.

 

[Dukefire]

Pretty much me when balan wonderland was out. I was cautious and was it not worth to buy other then good design.