Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I actually think those two are too big to be playable characters, not in the same way as Ridley, but in the same way as Kraid, where the absolutely mammoth size of the characters is part of the point. Just to get a good example, here are the size comparisons between all the bosses from Kid Icarus Uprising.

I don't really think it's true for either character. They are large for a cool setpiece yeah, and it makes a ton of sense for Hades to be this large just to show off his power, but unlike Kraid which is just a big monster, Medusa and especially Hades have colorful personalities that take center stage whenever they're onscreen.

Can’t Medusa change her size like Palutena?

When Palutena's huge, she's portrayed as a vision to Pit. When Medusa's huge, she's just actually that big. With Medusa, it's her actual size, with Palutena, it isn't.

I wouldn't be surprised if size was variable for all of these characters. They're all gods who can do pretty much whatever they want within their domain, Hades seems to change size in each phase, and in the final phase Medusa is the same size as he is despite being much smaller in this model viewer (and I assume, her boss fight).

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Dedicating a significant amount of resources to a single-player mode in game genre that is multiplayer at its core will always be a misuse of said resources in practical terms no matter how you slice it. Okay we bring a new souped-up version of Subspace back. The overwhelming majority of players play it once and then never touch it again. Great could have had more actual content people regularly would engage with but instead we have a dead mode.

I believe Sakurai was in the right to feel disenchanted by the Subspace cutscenes being leaked. What he potentially doesn't understand is that even if they hadn't leaked it's still a waste of time to make them because you watch them like every now and again and after the first time it's not novel anymore so it has diminishing returns right out the gate and on top of all of that Smash is just not the kind of game that requires cutscenes. A game like Final Fantasy with the narrative it's telling being the driving force of the game requires this. Smash doesn't as a game and it's "universe" doesn't even lend itself to tell a narrative.

As far as single-player goes I think they nailed it with Ultimate concerning resources. I think World of Light and spirits are the extent a single-player mode should receive in a game like Smash. World of Light was Event mode reaching its full potential. If they could expand upon it I would try adding elements of Melee's Adventure mode to the in between the spaces because the traversal of across the WoL board would be a nice parrel contrasted with the traversal across the Adventure mode inspired obstacle courses.

I like that spirits didn't take resources away from content that actually matters and how they added the power-ups to them that make them actually engaging with playing the actual game versus a completely pointless gallery dedicated to reading trivia you could just find online anyways. People don't play Smash to read trivia about other games and I don't understand why there's this vocal online sect of the community that keeps pushing it so hard. Nostalgia? Idk but I hate nostalgia anyways.

So I really hope they don't bring back trophies or go all in on some kind of Subspace successor because it'd be such a waste of time and energy for borderline nothing. Smash is not a collect-a-thon and shouldn't aspire to be. Smash is also not a suitable setting to tell some kind of narrative and shouldn't try to be. I'm concerned the loud minority online could influence Nintendo/Smash-team to go in this direction and I'm hoping Sakurai knows better. Smash is a multiplayer platform fighter crossover game with enough tech and simplicity to be enjoyed by both casual and hardcore gamers alike. Thus the true content of this game will always been Characters, Stages, Items and Cosmetics coupled with core mechanics and the number of options in the cast's movesets.

Took the words out of my mouth and mind. Single-Player, not matter mode nor from Melee to Ultimate will be constrained in this way. People asking Subspace 2 are also the same people who want 40-60 roster or even weirder expect Nintendo and Sakurai to overhaul the roster in its entirely for that one mode.

I don't think Trophies need to disappear. Just have them for models already in-game. Fighters, Assist Trophies, Items, Pokemon and Stages. A whole slate set already which shouldn't too difficult

Rewards for completing certain modes like Beating Mario's Classic Mode gives you Mario trophy with descriptions etc

I liked the Collecthon aspect of World of Light. One of the best parts.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"Single player is a dumb idea and a complete waste of time" is certainly a take. I mean, yeah, multiplayer will always be the focus but it's nice to have something else to do.


Especially when there's never anyone around to play with so the entire game is single player anyway.

 

[Gengar84]

Took the words out of my mouth and mind. Single-Player, not matter mode nor from Melee to Ultimate will be constrained in this way. People asking Subspace 2 are also the same people who want 40-60 roster or even weirder expect Nintendo and Sakurai to overhaul the roster in its entirely for that one mode.

I don't think Trophies need to disappear. Just have them for models already in-game. Fighters, Assist Trophies, Items, Pokemon and Stages. A whole slate set already which shouldn't too difficult

Rewards for completing certain modes like Beating Mario's Classic Mode gives you Mario trophy with descriptions etc

I liked the Collecthon aspect of World of Light. One of the best parts.

I’m torn because I want a huge roster and a fun platforming adventure story mode with character interaction but I know both aren’t really feasible at the same time. I think DLC could help with either one though. I’d gladly pay $30 for another mode equivalent to SSE but with modern improvements and we’re likely to get more Fighter’s Passes as well.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

"Single player is a dumb idea and a complete waste of time" is certainly a take. I mean, yeah, multiplayer will always be the focus but it's nice to have something else to do.


Especially when there's never anyone around to play with so the entire game is single player anyway.

Nobody said this. it just isn't the main grand attraction people are paying and playing Smash for like most fans on the internet like to exaggerate. Nice novelties and good replay time. sure

Plus that line can be said for virtually any multiplayer-focused game ever made. Why is seen as Smash-centric problem? We have Online to mitigate this which unfortunately you have to pay for

 

[Louie G.]

So with that in mind am quite confident in there being very little cuts. If any at all.

I’ve been thinking about this and I’d like to provide a rebuttal that isn’t just about time and resources. Although those are relevant, let’s say they’ve been working on Smash all this time now. That’s a pretty lengthy development cycle.

But Ultimate will be on the Switch and I think it’s high time Smash learns to move on. “Ultimate but bigger” will sell, no doubt. But is that what Sakurai and Nintendo want to do, similar in their interest to provide a fresh new experience with each title? I think those who suggest that this is the way Sakurai wants to one-up himself, by making a 100 character roster or something, are just serving their own fantasy. He is not someone who likes to retread ground, he likes to look forward and not just improve upon himself, but to innovate and justify that game’s existence singularly.

What I will say is I’ve warmed up to the idea of the roster being Ultimate-sized, hitting around 70 unique characters. It’s possible especially if assets continue to be heavily reused. Although I think we need to address that Smash surpassing itself doesn’t always mean getting bigger. It means improving on itself, offering new experiences and gameplay opportunities, bold and creative surprises. And if that comes with condensing the roster I’m at the point where I just welcome it, by now.

Ultimate was great but let’s let it be great as its own singular experience. Switch 2 being cross compatible gives Nintendo a great excuse to try some bold new stuff while still providing the tried and true entries in those series as a fallback. If MK9 does some big new thing with connected tracks and a fuel gauge, MK8D will still be there for everyone to play as an alternative. Options are key here. I’d rather my options not be Ultimate and Ultimate again, to be honest with you. Not to reignite this tired conversation but I’m trying to encourage more people to understand this mindset.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Thinking about it, I think a better response is that, for the most part, people who play Super Smash Bros. (or any fighting game for that matter) for this long are kind of outliers. I mean heck, it was kind of a running gag on the previous thread that none of us played the game either because we're more interested in talking about it.

Given that, the big story mode that people play once and then never again along with other side modes that people fool around with for a bit and then leave alone probably account for a decent chunk of the play time. In that case, I don't think it's that much of a waste.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

When Palutena's huge, she's portrayed as a vision to Pit. When Medusa's huge, she's just actually that big. With Medusa, it's her actual size, with Palutena, it isn't. Palutena's actual size is how she's portrayed in Smash at 5'9.

The gods clearly can change their size at will as part of their divine power. This isn't a problem whatsoever, especially when it's Sakurai's own interpretation and he can do what he wants with the characters.

Frankly, the only reason why Palutena isn't giant when you fight her is because she spent quite a lot of her power trying to resist the Chaos Kin for years.


And bear in mind we have a clear example of Medusa changing size as far back as the NES game where after she's defeated in her giant monster form, she appears much smaller, able to fit in her monster form's eye socket before crumbling over in defeat.

Yes, this isn't Uprising's model, but there's literally no reason to believe she can't naturally be the same height as Palutena.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I agree, Would be such a wasted opportunity just for Ultimate twice

Development and wait times are increasing and waiting in-between games are large already. Smash Bros is an event and experience. Why wasted ot on the same game over and over?

Ultimate is my favorite but it will be available on my Switch and 2. Really hate sentiments like this but i think its time to move on.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

"Single player is a dumb idea and a complete waste of time" is certainly a take. I mean, yeah, multiplayer will always be the focus but it's nice to have something else to do.


Especially when there's never anyone around to play with so the entire game is single player anyway.

There’s a reason people really complained about Street Fighter V when it launched, that’s all I’ll say.

 

[Oracle Link]

I don't think Trophies need to disappear. Just have them for models already in-game. Fighters, Assist Trophies, Items, Pokemon and Stages. A whole slate set already which shouldn't too difficult

This could also mean that smash has to really buckle down and include nintedo icons SOMEHOW in game and be it as background chars!
I personally think Octoroks (the cute 2d ones) and koroks should be included in the next game considering they seem pretty heavily merchandised/ focused in marketing!

Also i think smash should cut down on pokeball pokemon and alocate more slots for assisttrophys (with the option to enable and disable single ones at will)

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve been thinking about this and I’d like to provide a rebuttal that isn’t just about time and resources. Although those are relevant, let’s say they’ve been working on Smash all this time now. That’s a pretty lengthy development cycle.

But Ultimate will be on the Switch and I think it’s high time Smash learns to move on. “Ultimate but bigger” will sell, no doubt. But is that what Sakurai and Nintendo want to do, similar in their interest to provide a fresh new experience with each title? I think those who suggest that this is the way Sakurai wants to one-up himself, by making a 100 character roster or something, are just serving their own fantasy. He is not someone who likes to retread ground, he likes to look forward and not just improve upon himself, but to innovate and justify that game’s existence singularly.

What I will say is I’ve warmed up to the idea of the roster being Ultimate-sized, hitting around 70 unique characters. It’s possible especially if assets continue to be heavily reused. Although I think we need to address that Smash surpassing itself doesn’t always mean getting bigger. It means improving on itself, offering new experiences and gameplay opportunities, bold and creative surprises. And if that comes with condensing the roster I’m at the point where I just welcome it, by now.

Ultimate was great but let’s let it be great as its own singular experience. Switch 2 being cross compatible gives Nintendo a great excuse to try some bold new stuff while still providing the tried and true entries in those series as a fallback. If MK9 does some big new thing with connected tracks and a fuel gauge, MK8D will still be there for everyone to play as an alternative. Options are key here. I’d rather my options not be Ultimate and Ultimate again, to be honest with you. Not to reignite this tired conversation but I’m trying to encourage more people to understand this mindset.

Yeah, I think you’re right overall. However, I think we can disagree on how they can best stand out from Ultimate while still delivering a great experience on its own. I feel like the best approach that can achieve this is to strive for a large roster, comparable to Ultimate’s base, at launch but make enough cuts and additions to still make it feel fresh. You’re right that just bringing everyone back again with only a few newcomers is less exciting the second time around, especially with backwards compatibility. I do still think the large roster is a huge selling point. The larger the roster is, the higher chance we have of actually seeing some of our more niche favorite characters. I think a strong single player is also important though so they need to find a good balance.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

I guess I'll do my version. Thoughts on Smash 64 stages

WANT

• Planet Zebes: Brinstar is cool and all, but it can miss one game. Why not make an HD version of it's ancestor?
• Sector Z: Same reasoning as Planet Zebes. Corneria shows up all the time, just modernize the ancestor for one game.
• Hyrule Castle: It'd work great as a home stage for Zelda.
• Yoshi's Story (64); Really cute stage and I love the cloud. Hard choice between this and Melee's Yoshi stage (which is also peak), but this one has the more unique layout and it probably wouldn't be great for so many stages to look like Battlefield

LIKE BUT DON'T WANT

• Congo Jungle: It's a nice stage, but yeah we've seen it enough. I like Kongo Falls more anyways, take that one for another spin.
• Peach's Castle: It's a fine stage with a charmingly weird layout, but I think Melee's Peach Castle stage works much better as a "Mario Castle" stage and should be a series regular.

INDIFFERENT

• Saffron City: TBH I never cared much for this stage. If it's in, cool, if it isn't, cool. It hasn't showed up much in Smash, so I don't think it'd get worn out by returning, but it might be better to give Poke Floats a second chance instead (I hate Poke Floats, but it is a fan favorite stage)
• Dream Land (64): Iconic stage, but it has a nearly identical layout to Fountain of Dreams; I don't imagine both would be able to coexist in a smaller stage roster so one would have to bite the bullet; this would be an easier loss for me since Green Greens is similar, but I also don't want too much of the returning stagelist to be Melee stages.

DON'T WANT

• Mushroom Kingdom (64): The 2nd Mushroom Kingdom stage deserves a HD remake too. Feel free to swap back to this one for Smash 7 tho.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly just thinking about what Sakurai would do and remembering him saying things like seriously considering if Super Smash Bros. actually needed the ability to jump in it, it's kind of hard to believe that once reaching the limit of how much stuff he can put into a game, he wouldn't set his sights on refining/redefining the gameplay.

There's also that 50-60 characters is still ludicrously large for a fighting game roster. It's not as absurd as eighty freaking two, but even that was only possible through DLC and heavy asset reuse. I think what this next game is going to boil down to is 1, how good are the new mechanics/systems introduced, and 2, how do they handle veteran DLC, because they don't want players to just feel like they're selling the characters back to us.

 

[Louie G.]

Side thought about Palutena’s size, it’d be nice if she was a little taller in Smash. I’d like to see her standing around Rosalina or Sephiroth’s heights, to further emphasize her nature as a goddess. Being no taller than Zelda as it currently stands, I feel like her design doesn’t fully reflect that dominance.

Proportionally she looks a bit odd next to Pit too, whose big anime head feels double Palutena’s. I get it, but maybe beefing her up would make that less noticeable. It stands out more when she is barely a full head taller than him in the first place.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Side thought about Palutena’s size, it’d be nice if she was a little taller in Smash. I’d like to see her standing around Rosalina or Sephiroth’s heights, to further emphasize her nature as a goddess. Being no taller than Zelda as it currently stands, I feel like her design doesn’t fully reflect that dominance.

Proportionally she looks a bit odd next to Pit too, whose big anime head feels double Palutena’s. I get it, but maybe beefing her up would make that less noticeable. It stands out more when she is barely a full head taller than him in the first place.

Being fair, she is canonically 5’9” and and Pit is canonically 5’3”

It makes sense for her to not be super tall and also for her to not be that much taller than Pit.

 

[Louie G.]

Being fair, she is canonically 5’9” and and Pit is canonically 5’3”

It makes sense for her to not be super tall and also for her to not be that much taller than Pit.

Yeah, but Smash often ignores canon to better emphasize an idea. To me, if you’re conveying / exaggerating a character’s essence in a fighting game, Palutena being a literal goddess is more important than maintaining canon. And making her tall, similarly to the way Rosalina already is, would just convey that essence more clearly to everyone.

I do know that Palutena has a canon height, but I think it undersells that idea when followed so rigidly. Maybe Sakurai feels more strapped to the canon because he was the one who came up with it. I just think it can be shrugged off in favor of pushing Palutena further dynamically.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Iirc, I remember reading that her model in Smash is actually slightly shorter than Pit's, which is where it looks off.

 

[Opossum]

Iirc, I remember reading that her model in Smash is actually slightly shorter than Pit's, which is where it looks off.

Yep. The thing with how the model is in-game is that Pit's idle stance leaves him just barely shorter than Palutena...but then you take into account the fact that Pit's idle stance has his legs bent and positioned pretty far apart while Palutena is standing straight up, and you realize that Pit's model is actually a bit taller. That, combined with the difference in head size, is why it feels so off.

 

[fogbadge]

Being fair, she is canonically 5’9” and and Pit is canonically 5’3”

It makes sense for her to not be super tall and also for her to not be that much taller than Pit.

Pit is 5’3???

 

[Ivander]

I mean, it wouldn't be the first time Pit became taller than Palutena, especially because Palutena has made him tall as her.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Pit is 5’3???

Yeah Pit is meant to be a dorky pre-teen. Palutena is meant to be an adult woman (goddess aside). She should be significantly taller.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Pit and Palutena's rough Smash Ultimate idle heights for reference. Make of these what you will.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I’ve been thinking about this and I’d like to provide a rebuttal that isn’t just about time and resources. Although those are relevant, let’s say they’ve been working on Smash all this time now. That’s a pretty lengthy development cycle.

But Ultimate will be on the Switch and I think it’s high time Smash learns to move on. “Ultimate but bigger” will sell, no doubt. But is that what Sakurai and Nintendo want to do, similar in their interest to provide a fresh new experience with each title? I think those who suggest that this is the way Sakurai wants to one-up himself, by making a 100 character roster or something, are just serving their own fantasy. He is not someone who likes to retread ground, he likes to look forward and not just improve upon himself, but to innovate and justify that game’s existence singularly.

What I will say is I’ve warmed up to the idea of the roster being Ultimate-sized, hitting around 70 unique characters. It’s possible especially if assets continue to be heavily reused. Although I think we need to address that Smash surpassing itself doesn’t always mean getting bigger. It means improving on itself, offering new experiences and gameplay opportunities, bold and creative surprises. And if that comes with condensing the roster I’m at the point where I just welcome it, by now.

Ultimate was great but let’s let it be great as its own singular experience. Switch 2 being cross compatible gives Nintendo a great excuse to try some bold new stuff while still providing the tried and true entries in those series as a fallback. If MK9 does some big new thing with connected tracks and a fuel gauge, MK8D will still be there for everyone to play as an alternative. Options are key here. I’d rather my options not be Ultimate and Ultimate again, to be honest with you. Not to reignite this tired conversation but I’m trying to encourage more people to understand this mindset.

The way I see it, it can reuse Ultimate and take a new approach and improve on itself at the same time. Why wouldn't this be possible ?

I mean, just check at what was accomplished in the past.

From 64, a game not even too "serious" and more of a testing ground to Melee with a very tight release schedule. Doubling the roster and with a huge graphical update amongst all other new modes, stages and you name it.

Then Brawl. Nothing being able to be recycled from Melee, all had to be rebuild from scratch and still a lot of new and especially unique newcomers, on top of Subspace Emissary and lots of other new features.

Smash 4, a dual system release, expanded the roster yet again. Even greater heights where achieved with the roster later on with DLC. For a dual system release that's quite impressive.

Then came Ultimate of course.

Now I have a huge disbelief that there won't be an amazing huge growth in effort and delivery yet again. It has been proven time and time again. All the odd favors where overcome in the end.

Even IF a roster will not be as big as Ultimate and say, we miss a few beloved veteran fighters , I have strong faith they'll be brought back through DLC regardless. Why? Ultimate had them all. It'll be way easier.

Just have some faith. Things will be amazing. This is Smash Bros., not just a huge priority for Nintendo but gaming's biggest celebration of crossovers and a huge system seller. That's needed after something like Smash Ultimate on Switch. We, the customer expect nothing less, and will not be easily impressed with nothing less. Nintendo knows. And Sakurai will deliver.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

This guy really sums up how I feel when I come to roster speculation lately.

 

[Louie G.]

Just have some faith. Things will be amazing.

I have absolute faith in this, that’s why I’m here. My enjoyment just doesn’t hinge on every character coming back. I think the game will be great even if they cut it in half.

I’m more fixated on the new - how longstanding characters can be updated, the new gameplay experiences that fresh faces will bring. I’m sure the roster will be substantial enough regardless. I know the game will be great. But my priorities are here.

Maybe this is kind of the dissociation here, where if I say we will lose content in transition people think I’m being negative. I see it as a neutral - of course there are characters I would rather not see go, but I understand most series are not as fortunate as Smash to have this level of legacy content retention. Part of my faith in Smash and Sakurai is realizing that if we need to scale back it is probably for good reason. I’ll be there all the same.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah Pit is meant to be a dorky pre-teen. Palutena is meant to be an adult woman (goddess aside). She should be significantly taller.

palutena is quite a shock as well considering she’s about the same height as me

 

[Diddy Kong]

I have absolute faith in this, that’s why I’m here. My enjoyment just doesn’t hinge on every character coming back. I think the game will be great even if they cut it in half.

I’m more fixated on the new - how longstanding characters can be updated, the new gameplay experiences that fresh faces will bring. I’m sure the roster will be substantial enough regardless. I know the game will be great. But my priorities are here.

Maybe this is kind of the dissociation here, where if I say we will lose content in transition people think I’m being negative. I see it as a neutral - of course there are characters I would rather not see go, but I understand most series are not as fortunate as Smash to have this level of legacy content retention. Part of my faith in Smash and Sakurai is realizing that if we need to scale back it is probably for good reason. I’ll be there all the same.

Well out of curiosity, which characters will stay and which will be cut? And whom would you revamp first?

I have my own opinion in this as well. I just really don't think they'll gut 50% of the roster. At the very very least I say 75% will stay. And cuts are mostly done out of character redundancy or a different approach in series representation altogether.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, I think Smash means different things to different people. Some people are most excited for the huge crossover appeal bringing in characters you never thought you’d see in the same place. For these people, the more characters added, the more exciting the crossover becomes and the higher chance they’ll be able to see some of their favorites join the fight. For others, gameplay mechanics and character balance is more important than roster size. If you’re really into the competitive side of the game, I’d imagine that would be your top priority. Some fans may love Smash for the wacky single player modes like Break the Targets and Stage Builder while others might love the adventure and other campaign modes. It’s hard to satisfy all these types of fans at once, which is why I think it leads to a lot of disagreements about which direction they should take the series. I don’t think there’s any one right answer for everyone.

 

[Louie G.]

Well out of curiosity, which characters will stay and which will be cut? And whom would you revamp first?

I don’t have too much time to get into the full roster scope of keeps and cuts right now, but I would like to see Samus updated to accommodate Samus Returns / Dread and Sonic reworked to be more intuitive, expressive and fun. I honestly think the dumb match stalling thing he has going on is more of a fundamental design issue than Steve (who just needs nerfs, less so complete design overhaul). Olimar could stand for a bit of a rework to give his surprisingly one-note gameplay more depth.

If Lucario returns, I think he should get a rework because his current shtick really isn’t working anymore. Less popular and/or consistently less viable fighters should be re-examined to rally people behind them again. Ganondorf is an obvious one that feels almost cliche to mention, but if not for giving him a more accurate kit he should just have better options available to him.

I’d say the same of Little Mac but I honestly don’t know what I can realistically expect from him. Giving him better “bob and weave“ style options, giving him Terry’s attack out of spot dodge mechanic etc could be nice. I think he should have real aerials but I’m not holding my breath. Small adjustments to other fighters, like giving Ridley less startup and an extra jump, are gonna inevitably be less extreme but still worth talking about.

 

[Pupp135]

Stage Reviews (64):

Want Back

• Planet Zebes: It probably is just worse Brinstar, but it's got a cool look and I'd like to play on it one day.
• Dream Land: It's kinda redundant, but I like the vibes, and a competitive stage with Kirby music is always a bonus.
• Saffron City: I love the pixelmon that come out and smack you. It's also one of the Pokémon stages that isn't almost identical to another Pokémon stage except it has different transformations.

Like, But Don't Specifically Want

• Super Happy Tree: It's not the greatest since it incentivizes sitting on the clouds and watching everyone fail to get to you, but it's a fun gimmick sometimes. I do think it could benefit from the hazards off version shrinking the blast zones though.
• Kongo Jungle: The vibes are nice here, and it can be a fun casual stage. I've just seen it for two games straight.
• Hyrule Castle: It just feels like a classic, and there's a bunch of fun stuff to keep things interesting in casual matches.

Don't Really Care

• Peach's Castle: This stage is oddly kinda awkward to fight on, and I wonder if it just isn't gelling super well with Ultimate's physics because I remember it being fun on the N64. It does have a unique aesthetic so I kinda like it on those grounds. The Bumper is also pretty fun.
• Mushroom Kingdom: The pipes are fun, but the layout is kinda eh, and I'm not too big of a fan of the fight club walk-off. Matches somehow always end with someone trying to KO someone over there.

Not a Fan

• Sector Z: The vibes are really cool, but I'm not really into the idea of getting Corneria, but bigger, and without collision on the guns. I wouldn't mind seeing a stage like it (as in wide with a pretty space background), but if we do get it I think I'd want it instead of Corneria rather than alongside it, but that scenario would be pretty weird.

Here’s mine:

Want
(Above) Peach’s Castle: The stage is clunky, but I find it fun to fight on.
Hyrule Castle: One of my favorite stages on the larger side.
Dream Land: While I prefer Fountain of Dreams, it’s a nice, simple stage.

Like but can part with it
Kongo Jungle: I like the layout of the stage, and it’s a staple, but I just prefer the three above.
Saffron City: I think the pokemon gimmick is cool.
Mushroom Kingdom: The pipe gimmick was cool, and I like it as a casual stage.

Indifferent
Planet Zebes: This is effectively Brinstar, but larger.
Super Happy Tree: Probably my least favorite of the 64 stages, but I don’t hate it.
Sector Z: I’m fine with just keeping Corneria.

If I’m allowed to add Meta Crystal/Metal Cavern, I think I would put it in the want territory as it’s never been playable in multiplayer without hacking/modding.

 

[Opossum]

Well out of curiosity, which characters will stay and which will be cut? And whom would you revamp first?

I have my own opinion in this as well. I just really don't think they'll gut 50% of the roster. At the very very least I say 75% will stay. And cuts are mostly done out of character redundancy or a different approach in series representation altogether.

I'll be honest, I think setting 75% retention as the absolute bare minimum is pretty wild; I think that's around the maximum retention, if not well past it. Given that there are currently 89 characters in Smash, that would be roughly 66.75 returning characters, and rounding up gives us 67. Ultimate's base roster had 69 non-Echo Fighter characters, which is only two more. And that's without including any potential newcomers that the next game will absolutely have.

Personally I don't see the next game having more characters at base than base Ultimate did, considering just how much content needed to be gutted to make that happen. So having 75% veteran retention seems highly unrealistic to me. I'm personally expecting a base roster of, at maximum, 60-62 characters...and that's including at least ten newcomers.

 

[Gengar84]

I'll be honest, I think setting 75% retention as the absolute bare minimum is pretty wild; I think that's around the maximum retention, if not well past it. Given that there are currently 89 characters in Smash, that would be roughly 66.75 returning characters, and rounding up gives us 67. Ultimate's base roster had 69 non-Echo Fighter characters, which is only two more. And that's without including any potential newcomers that the next game will absolutely have.

Personally I don't see the next game having more characters at base than base Ultimate did, considering just how much content needed to be gutted to make that happen. So having 75% veteran retention seems highly unrealistic to me. I'm personally expecting a base roster of, at maximum, 60-62 characters...and that's including at least ten newcomers.

I think if this game has a significantly longer development window than Ultimate did I could see them at least matching Ultimate’s base roster size if not slightly exceeding it. It also partly depends on just how much they carry over from Ultimate itself and how much they have to build from the ground up.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Do guys think that the older characters will get new recordings or it will only be a few like in Ultimate?

 

[Gengar84]

Do guys think that the older characters will get new recordings or it will only be a few like in Ultimate?

I’m guessing it will be similar to Ultimate but that’s just a guess. I’d at least love to hear Cloud and Sephiroth get English dubs this time around if they stay.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I’m guessing it will be similar to Ultimate but that’s just a guess. I’d at least love to hear Cloud and Sephiroth get English dubs this time around if they stay.

Better pray that Cloud's remake actor isn't under the same extreme contract that Burton was, then. That's the only way we'd get an English voice for him (and Sephiroth; haven't heard anything about Newbern not being allowed to go uncredited or under pseudonym but even if he didn't have the same limitations as Burton I'd imagine Sephiroth was kept Japanese to match Cloud regardless).

 

[Louie G.]

Do guys think that the older characters will get new recordings or it will only be a few like in Ultimate?

I’m honestly hoping for an entirely new slate, although obviously some will be recycled. I’m just pretty tired of so much reuse from Brawl, and in some cases even earlier. New victory theme arrangements too please.

 

[Gengar84]

Better pray that Cloud's remake actor isn't under the same extreme contract that Burton was, then. That's the only way we'd get an English voice for him (and Sephiroth; haven't heard anything about Newbern not being allowed to go uncredited or under pseudonym but even if he didn't have the same limitations as Burton I'd imagine Sephiroth was kept Japanese to match Cloud regardless).

Not a huge deal either way since that something that can be easily addressed with mods but it would be nice to have for the base game.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I do think moving on from Ultimate is the best move. Ultimate Deluxe, or bringing back most veterans will likely be an idea in Nintendo’s back pocket just in case, but I doubt they’ll need to pull those cards with a new game.

It is pretty unsustainable to prioritise only the next big thing, the next big franchise to be in Smash, as you likely end up with a barebones roster. We’ve seen Mario V Sonic, Link V Cloud. At some point, it does get old.

That’s why we see a lot of fighting games cycle out old faces for new faces.

The big question is how severe will this change be?

If it’s a traditional new game, I’d expect certain third parties, legacy characters, and fluff from series past their prime and the obvious Mario/Pokémon/FE fluff to be cut first.

That isn’t a guarantee some veterans will never come back. skipped out on Brawl, but returned in Smash 4. So never say never.

I’ve talked about it before, but I think Ultimate delayed a lot of other Nintendo additions due to its focus on legacy newcomers and third parties. More specifically, who represents Nintendo the best today?

Series like Animal Crossing, Xenoblade, Splatoon, and Pikmin are all primed for substantial roster growth, ingraining themselves into the core lineup much more.

This does probably mean things may work the other way too.

If it’s a reboot, I think some questions are in order. Many expecting a reboot are also expecting more legacy picks to join and return. I think under a true reboot, we will see less legacy franchises than a traditional sequel.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes to literally do “Everyone is Here” again. I do think we could use a bit of a roster shake up so it doesn’t feel redundant with Ultimate, especially since the Switch 2 is backwards compatible. That doesn’t mean that I think the game should have drastically fewer characters than Ultimate though, just different ones. I’d try to bring back as many fan favorites as possible but some of the less popular or redundant characters can be replaced by fresh new faces. I do still think a large roster is the way to go as it plays into Smash’s strengths as a huge crossover toy box.