Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Kirbeh]

Ok, I got a new question.

For your most wanted newcomer(s) for Smash 6, how would you like their reveal trailers to be animated?

Full CGI-(Examples:)

Pre-rendered in the style of their game-(Examples:)

2D animated-(Examples:)

For all newcomers: use their render for a simple splash screen followed by a brief gameplay showcase.

For actual cinematic stuff, do 1 big trailer that shows off multiple vets and newcomers all at once like the trailers for MVC3.

More efficient use of budget imo. (I know marketing gets its own budget, but I want it to get less and the actual development to get more.)

Third parties would be the exception though since they probably want the guests to feel special and get more fanfare.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Nah, don't you see Golden? Toon Zelda is the surprise character!

As in it'd be a surprise if anyone actually believed that!

.....listen here, you little-


I laughed

 

[Kirbeh]

Speaking of trailers though, bring the movies section back dang it.

Make a museum/archives mode that has the trailers for every game, the character art they'd do for Smash 4, etc. Maybe even some design docs now that Sakurai has already shared a few himself over the years.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think that leak mentioned Paper Mario was the early adopter character kind of like Plant, in which case I could see them being planned from the start since they need to be ready when the game comes out.

Plus Plant got a Palutena's Guidance unlike every other DLC character, so while I do agree for regular DLC, I could see the early adopter bonus character being planned early on.

EDIT: Should mention I don't think that leak is real, I just think it's for other reasons that aren't to do with Paper Mario being like Plant in this case lol

This has a major factor people like to forget; at no point do we know when the Guidances were recorded. They could've been recorded heavily at once, or slowly throughout it. DLC was still not outright planned from the start, even if Plant might've been. This means that Sakurai would never record a generic line for DLC unless he was sure it would exist. The only way it could've been done all at once is if it was very late into development, which is the only time we have information on Plant, a few months before the game's release.

Besides that, it was confirmed that every base game character was meant to be in there. There's also an old interview about Sakurai noting in 2017 is when Nintendo greenlit the DLC, but I can't re-find the source(I've shown Golden the link before, but yeah, it's a weirdly hard one to find). ...Which is far more likely when Plant was planned out(as the bonus DLC).

Regardless, it's still been a consistent thing that Sakurai doesn't start with DLC on the mind. But later on during development when it's greenlit. However, even Mewtwo wasn't done from the start, but later on, as confirmed in his own wording;

"Mewtwo:
Sakurai: Among the veteran fighters who didn’t appear in Smash for 3DS/Wii U, Mewtwo was particularly popular, and it was clear many people wanted him back. Unfortunately, it wasn’t possible to include him in the retail release. Thus, we decided that, if we were to release DLC, Mewtwo would be an effective veteran choice, so we began with him."

Nintendo Dream Interview with Sakurai: Part 2

Sakurai discusses all seven of the DLC characters in Smash for Wii U/3DS.

sourcegaming.info

Notice how he says "if"?

 

[Kirbeh]

Notice how he says " If "?

And that's why we got .

 

[Opossum]

DLC is never planned right away. That's way late into it. It's very unrealistic for it to ever be on an actual preparation document.

It wasn't necessarily on the design doc, but to play devil's advocate, based on the Gematsu leak, we know it was planned to some extent during early Smash 4 development. The leak specifically said that only one out of Ness or Lucas would stay and the other would be held off for DLC.

Lo and behold, Ness was in base 4 while Lucas was the second DLC character. Mewtwo, Lucas, and likely Roy by extension were likely decided on relatively early on compared to most other DLC.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Plant was likely planned ahead, but I have my doubts that it wasn't always meant to be a bonus.

I can't subscribe to the theory that it was intended at launch or else it would have been a free update for everyone, not just those who purchased the game early on. Sakurai kinda takes issue on holding things back meant for launch under a pricetag.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

This has a major factor people like to forget; at no point do we know when the Guidances were recorded. They could've been recorded heavily at once, or slowly throughout it. DLC was still not outright planned from the start, even if Plant might've been. This means that Sakurai would never record a generic line for DLC unless he was sure it would exist. The only way it could've been done all at once is if it was very late into development, which is the only time we have information on Plant, a few months before the game's release.

Besides that, it was confirmed that every base game character was meant to be in there. There's also an old interview about Sakurai noting in 2017 is when Nintendo greenlit the DLC, but I can't re-find the source(I've shown Golden the link before, but yeah, it's a weirdly hard one to find). ...Which is far more likely when Plant was planned out(as the bonus DLC).

Regardless, it's still been a consistent thing that Sakurai doesn't start with DLC on the mind. But later on during development when it's greenlit. However, even Mewtwo wasn't done from the start, but later on, as confirmed in his own wording;

"Mewtwo:
Sakurai: Among the veteran fighters who didn’t appear in Smash for 3DS/Wii U, Mewtwo was particularly popular, and it was clear many people wanted him back. Unfortunately, it wasn’t possible to include him in the retail release. Thus, we decided that, if we were to release DLC, Mewtwo would be an effective veteran choice, so we began with him."

Nintendo Dream Interview with Sakurai: Part 2

Sakurai discusses all seven of the DLC characters in Smash for Wii U/3DS.

sourcegaming.info

Notice how he says "if"?

I mean I definitely don't think Mewtwo was planned from the start for 4.

What I'm saying is that I do believe it was planned early on or midway or so for Ultimate considering 4's DLC was pretty successful, Plant was given a Guidance (which even Mewtwo wasn't given), Plant needed to be ready on day 1, and Joker was revealed the night the game came out, meaning DLC had already been started (or at least some of them decided) by then since they needed time to make the trailer for the Game Awards.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If they bring back Palutena's guidances i really hope they have the foresight to bring the actors in to record lines for the next batch of DLC fighters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean I definitely don't think Mewtwo was planned from the start for 4.

What I'm saying is that I do believe it was planned early on or midway or so for Ultimate considering 4's DLC was pretty successful, Plant was given a Guidance (which even Mewtwo wasn't given), Plant needed to be ready on day 1, and Joker was revealed the night the game came out, meaning DLC had already been started (or at least some of them decided) by then since they needed time to make the trailer for the Game Awards.

We knew Plant was worked on before the game's own release. We found files for it in the September demo. This has nothing to do with when it was decided it'd be on the roster. Just that it was started early enough to be a bonus.

Again, that's putting too much on the Guidances. Mewtwo not having one just means it was started on after the Guidances were all done. That, or Sakurai wanted a generic one, and since Mewtwo wasn't really planned for base itself, got a general DLC one. Also, do note Sakurai wasn't sure if more DLC would come, so who knows what was on his mind for that one. It could've been a "just in case" Guidance, in-case DLC became a thing. However, that also costs money. Why Mewtwo didn't get a special one is simply unclear.

Plant having one at least is understandable. As noted, the work was started on before Ultimate's release. This simply means that the Guidances were recorded in a time around when Sakurai decided Plant would be part of the roster. Which also means we don't have any hard information beyond(as I noted before), a couple of hard-to-find interviews at best.

 

[Kirbeh]

If they bring back Palutena's guidances i really hope they have the foresight to bring the actors in to record lines for the next batch of DLC fighters.

Tbh, I think it has less to do with foresight and more to do with Nintendo not wanting to pay for VAs...

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

We knew Plant was worked on before the game's own release. We found files for it in the September demo. This has nothing to do with when it was decided it'd be on the roster. Just that it was started early enough to be a bonus.

Again, that's putting too much on the Guidances. Mewtwo not having one just means it was started on after the Guidances were all done. That, or Sakurai wanted a generic one, and since Mewtwo wasn't really planned for base itself, got a general DLC one. Also, do note Sakurai wasn't sure if more DLC would come, so who knows what was on his mind for that one. It could've been a "just in case" Guidance, in-case DLC became a thing. However, that also costs money. Why Mewtwo didn't get a special one is simply unclear.

Plant having one at least is understandable. As noted, the work was started on before Ultimate's release. This simply means that the Guidances were recorded in a time around when Sakurai decided Plant would be part of the roster. Which also means we don't have any hard information beyond(as I noted before), a couple of hard-to-find interviews at best.

I have no idea why you're arguing with me about Mewtwo. I know Mewtwo wasn't planned to be an early adopter bonus like that.

In my initial message about the leak I only mentioned Plant and that's because Plant was likely planned from whenever he was added to the project (which we don't know but it had to be during the base game's development) to be an early adopter bonus. I don't think he was there from the very very start of development.

I brought up Plant because in the rumor we were discussing, Paper Mario was said to be the early adopter character, just like Plant was in Ultimate. If Smash comes out in 2026, it's in full swing development and Paper Mario would be entering the project much like I imagine Plant did. Maybe it's too early to point out an early adopter character? But I already said I don't believe this rumor anyway, so like...

No idea how this started a conversation about when Plant was added or if Mewtwo was planned from the start when all I was saying was that Paper Mario's situation in this specific leak was basically the same as Plant's lol

 

[Bölverkaizer]

I'm sorry for coming with a different topic here but do you guys think Super Robot Wars (OG ofc) can have a shot in Smash? Bandai and Nintendo are in good terms and they have collaborating for develop Smash the last titles, thought there are other Bandai Namco series that might have a higher priority (Tales Of, SoulCalibur, even Dark Souls if we are more broader with the term of what is a Bandai Namco game). I just think it would be neat and wanted to hear if anybody also had the idea at least.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Tbh, I think it has less to do with foresight and more to do with Nintendo not wanting to pay for VAs...

It just seems kind of difficult to do, let alone do without leaking any DLC. They're not going to know every single possible DLC candidate or their movesets ahead of time when the guidances are recorded.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I have no idea why you're arguing with me about Mewtwo. I know Mewtwo wasn't planned to be an early adopter bonus like that.

In my initial message about the leak I only mentioned Plant and that's because Plant was likely planned from whenever he was added to the project (which we don't know but it had to be during the base game's development) to be an early adopter bonus. I don't think he was there from the very very start of development.

I brought up Plant because in the rumor we were discussing, Paper Mario was said to be the early adopter character, just like Plant was in Ultimate. If Smash comes out in 2026, it's in full swing development and Paper Mario would be entering the project much like I imagine Plant did. Maybe it's too early to point out an early adopter character? But I already said I don't believe this rumor anyway, so like...

No idea how this started a conversation about when Plant was added or if Mewtwo was planned from the start when all I was saying was that Paper Mario's situation in this specific leak was basically the same as Plant's lol

It's way too early to point out a bonus DLC character, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Though that said, if it's a 2022 start, well, that's 2 years in. Unless the cycle is 3 years, it's pretty unlikely the rumor could pan out from that factor.

Anyway, the fact it had Trophies among it was what killed the rumor even more. Trophies are way too costly to try and redo nowadays. It doesn't mean we can't get maybe a few at best(but even the roster is costly to make, since that's a lot of rendering for a single model, which takes a lot of time. But even then, the bigger thing is how much time it takes to translate each description too, which is pretty much why Spirits have very little text to them. To speed up the process).

Speaking of 2022, I know I read about Sakurai working on a game in that year, but did it specify around what time in the year? That matters too.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

It just seems kind of difficult to do, let alone do without leaking any DLC. They're not going to know every single possible DLC candidate or their movesets ahead of time when the guidances are recorded.

Yeah, this makes me think of how I think Xander Mobus said something about how he got given a ton of names to read and some were real and some were fake characters so he wouldn't actually know which was which?

I don't remember if he actually said that but I feel like I remember he did?

Anyway, I feel like that'd be way harder, for the team to just make up an absolute boatload of fake Palutena's Guidances and then have them all voiced out by multiple people, rather than just one guy saying names.

 

[Kirbeh]

I'm sorry for coming with a different topic here but do you guys think Super Robot Wars (OG ofc) can have a shot in Smash? Bandai and Nintendo are in good terms and they have collaborating for develop Smash the last titles, thought there are other Bandai Namco series that might have a higher priority (Tales Of, SoulCalibur, even Dark Souls if we are more broader with the term of what is a Bandai Namco game). I just think it would be neat and wanted to hear if anybody also had the idea at least.

HyperSomari64 one of your people has come.

It just seems kind of difficult to do, let alone do without leaking any DLC. They're not going to know every single possible DLC candidate or their movesets ahead of time when the guidances are recorded.

I'm sure that plays a factor as well, but Nintendo has a history of not going back for additional VO work especially if they can avoid those within unions. If they could get non-union VAs for Pit, Palutena and whoever else they have participating in the Guidances, I'm sure they'd be more willing to go back and add more. Not guaranteed mind you but paying for more VOs is still the primary factor imo.

 

[ninjahmos]

I'm sorry for coming with a different topic here but do you guys think Super Robot Wars (OG ofc) can have a shot in Smash? Bandai and Nintendo are in good terms and they have collaborating for develop Smash the last titles, thought there are other Bandai Namco series that might have a higher priority (Tales Of, SoulCalibur, even Dark Souls if we are more broader with the term of what is a Bandai Namco game). I just think it would be neat and wanted to hear if anybody also had the idea at least.

There definitely could be a chance of SRW getting into Smash, but I feel like people may associate it more with its origins as a spinoff of Compati Hero, which is a crossover of various tokusatsu and mecha franchises, than as its own video game franchise.

…So that might be difficult.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't remember if he actually said that but I feel like I remember he did?

He did, and actually thought Duck Hunt was one of the fake ones, which makes it seem odd that he emphasizes the space inbetween "Duck" and "Hunt" so it doesn't sound vulgar.

Something else I wonder about that is if his list included every single Smash fighter regardless of whether or not they'd be included in 4, so they wouldn't need to bring him back in for veterans at least.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I'm sorry for coming with a different topic here but do you guys think Super Robot Wars (OG ofc) can have a shot in Smash? Bandai and Nintendo are in good terms and they have collaborating for develop Smash the last titles, thought there are other Bandai Namco series that might have a higher priority (Tales Of, SoulCalibur, even Dark Souls if we are more broader with the term of what is a Bandai Namco game). I just think it would be neat and wanted to hear if anybody also had the idea at least.

The original characters have a non-zero chance on the grounds that they are game-original characters from a game IP, just like Sora for Kingdom Hearts. And there is plenty of representation possible without dipping into the licensed IPs.

That being said....it's a hard sell to imagine anyone making the jump to Smash, honestly.
There's no real push for it and no one in particular stands out as an option from what I see.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

He did, and actually thought Duck Hunt was one of the fake ones, which makes it seem odd that he emphasizes the space inbetween "Duck" and "Hunt" so it doesn't sound vulgar.

I feel like that one was probably the voice director telling him to make sure it's annunciated properly to avoid just that kind of scenario lmao

Like even if you think it's fake, you'd still be like "All right I can understand why they want me to separate those sounds" lol

 

[Bölverkaizer]

There definitely could be a chance of SRW getting into Smash, but I feel like people may associate it more with its origins as a spinoff of Compati Hero, which is a crossover of various tokusatsu and mecha franchises, than as its own video game franchise.

…So that might be difficult.

Ngl Roar would be fun but I think they might stuck with their easiest to get series that is OG, they could go for Masaki in the Cybaster.

The original characters have a non-zero chance on the grounds that they are game-original characters from a game IP, just like Sora for Kingdom Hearts. And there is plenty of representation possible without dipping into the licensed IPs.

That being said....it's a hard sell to imagine anyone making the jump to Smash, honestly.
There's no real push for it and no one in particular stands out as an option from what I see.

That's true..., a shame, my hopes are in that sakurai is in secret a huge srw nerd or smth and he tries to get them for a bit of indulgence.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The original characters have a non-zero chance on the grounds that they are game-original characters from a game IP, just like Sora for Kingdom Hearts. And there is plenty of representation possible without dipping into the licensed IPs.

That being said....it's a hard sell to imagine anyone making the jump to Smash, honestly.
There's no real push for it and no one in particular stands out as an option from what I see.

My personal idea here is too go for the Robots and not the humans, but have the pilots voicing as if they are inside the robot controlling it.

I dont think size would be an issue since neither the smash devs or the SRW devs care about canonical sizes when adding characters to the games.

Here's an example where we have a human sized character in their show fighting a giant robot from a different show.

To be honest the biggest issue i can see standing in the way of this being a thing is just the fact that in a series as massive as SRW, only a few of its titles are playable to a worldwide audience.
(four original generations games on GBA, DS and PS4, the Project X Zone spin off and four mainline titles on Switch/Steam)
If there were more games available i could see the likelyhood being higher, simply due to the series being one of the longest lasting JRPG series alongside Final fantasy, Dragon Quest, Fire emblem etc.

 

[Perkilator]

I’d like to note that in Project X Zone, Sänger Zonvolt (another Super Robot Wars OC) fights on-foot with a colossal blade, and his signature move is cleaving evil with it. At the be try least, I can see him in that incarnation as an Assist Trophy.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Well Chaos Control refers to an entire category of abilities. He's guaranteed to have it in some form. If you're just referring to teleportation, it could be his up special or they could make it one of his other specials, with him teleporting and doing an attack when he reappears.

The teleport should be his dodge.

For all newcomers: use their render for a simple splash screen followed by a brief gameplay showcase.

I'm still disappointed that Ultimate's DLC characters didn't get those short number trailers.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I’d like to note that in Project X Zone, Sänger Zonvolt (another Super Robot Wars OC) fights on-foot with a colossal blade, and his signature move is cleaving evil with it. At the be try least, I can see him in that incarnation as an Assist Trophy.

I actually thought about a funny hypothetical here where Sanger's sidekick Ratsel got to be an assist trophy and they reference the glitch that became a running gag in the SRW series that whenever Ratsel shows up to fight the music glitches out and starts playing his main theme instead of whatever was playing in that moment.

 

[HyperSomari64]

HyperSomari64 one of your people has come.

If only they heard of my Super Robot Wars USA idea, with Regular Show and Disney's Fireball.

 

[Bölverkaizer]

My personal idea here is too go for the Robots and not the humans, but have the pilots voicing as if they are inside the robot controlling it.

I dont think size would be an issue since neither the smash devs or the SRW devs care about canonical sizes when adding characters to the games.

Here's an example where we have a human sized character in their show fighting a giant robot from a different show.

To be honest the biggest issue i can see standing in the way of this being a thing is just the fact that in a series as massive as SRW, only a few of its titles are playable to a worldwide audience.
(four original generations games on GBA, DS and PS4, the Project X Zone spin off and four mainline titles on Switch/Steam)
If there were more games available i could see the likelyhood being higher, simply due to the series being one of the longest lasting JRPG series alongside Final fantasy, Dragon Quest, Fire emblem etc.

Sometimes that logic is also applied into the proper heroes right, like Gespenst was originally an armor in Hero Senki till it was reporpused as a mech. Also they could made them more squishy like the SD sprites considering its quite a characteristic element of the franchise.

My personal bet is on Masaki, the first OG in the mainline series and he also has a franchise of own being Masou Kishin, so he has a lot in his bag.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Sometimes that logic is also applied into the proper heroes right, like Gespenst was originally an armor in Hero Senki till it was reporpused as a mech. Also they could made them more squishy like the SD sprites considering its quite a characteristic element of the franchise.

Using the chibi aesthetic from the early SNES/PS1 titles is pretty much the direction i imagine the devs going with here to get around size issues.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I say let them be big. Be like Iron Giant.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Which 3 Nintendo unique/non-clone fighters do you think would be the ones most likely to get cut in the next game?

I'll assume pure time constraints. Plant, Corrin, and Ivysaur.

My thing with Jigglypuff is that, well, it's always a very low priority character that barely scraped by in games where there's not very many cuts. So, what happens in a game when more significant cuts actually have to be made? Jiggs is always living on the edge, that luck seems likely to run out.

I don't disagree; I don't have Jigglypuff very high either (52nd out of 66 first parties, which definitely puts her in my "low priority" range), but I feel like the addition/return of new Pokemon gives her possible buffers she didn't have before.

She likely beats Incineroar (could go either way, but they feel pretty even and I think this is a case where seniority would be the tiebreaker), and honestly, I can see both of them above Squirtle and Ivysaur; in a trimmed roster with the knowledge he can't bring everyone back, I can see a world where Sakurai choosing to prioritize bringing back the other (non-Pichu) Pokemon vets first to catch the widest net.

I guess that would come down to what you think Smash 6 will prioritize in vet retention, but I do think she could plausibly be like, the third/fourth lowest unique Pokemon instead of the last this time. And likely still get cut regardless

 

[Kirbeh]

I say let them be big. Be like Iron Giant.

Only if these guys get to be that big too.

Also, PTX-40A for smash

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Sometimes that logic is also applied into the proper heroes right, like Gespenst was originally an armor in Hero Senki till it was reporpused as a mech. Also they could made them more squishy like the SD sprites considering its quite a characteristic element of the franchise.

My personal bet is on Masaki, the first OG in the mainline series and he also has a franchise of own being Masou Kishin, so he has a lot in his bag.

He's also shown up in most of the english releases so if you've only played the localized games you would have a good handle on his character and what he's about.

Plus his VA has a habit of doing a lot of extra pro bono voice work where he trash talks the licensed characters when he fights them, something i imagine he would do for the sake of smash victory screens or taunts.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Only if these guys get to be that big too.

Also, PTX-40A for smash

Nah. Make them slightly bigger but keep the mech noticeably bigger than them.


Also throw in Blitztank.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Nah. Make them slightly bigger but keep the mech noticeably bigger than them.


Also throw in Blitztank.

I know your joking but im pretty sure Ridley is the same size as a couple of the "mascot" mechs from SRW.

There are 3 technically four mechs which are basically the "moogle", "Noppon" or "Anna" of the series, always having some presence in most games.
Cybuster, Gespenst, Grungust and Huckbein.

 

[Bölverkaizer]

I know your joking but im pretty sure Ridley is the same size as a couple of the "mascot" mechs from SRW.

There are 3 technically four mechs which are basically the "moogle", "Noppon" or "Anna" of the series, always having some presence in most games.
Cybuster, Gespenst, Grungust and Huckbein.

The Huckebein would be very silly to have cuz it would probably the closest you can be to have an anime in Smash. But I see it more as an assist or just a spirit/trophy.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm sorry for coming with a different topic here but do you guys think Super Robot Wars (OG ofc) can have a shot in Smash?

Well...the entire franchise was built to be a 4th Party crossover. But then, so was Kingdom Hearts. So it's possible.

Whatever gets me Trombe!

 

[Bölverkaizer]

Well...the entire franchise was built to be a 4th Party crossover. But then, so was Kingdom Hearts. So it's possible.

Whatever gets me Trombe!

Lowkey KH was the thing it started to give me hope, with the notorious thing that SRW has a lot more of content that is separated of the animes to the point of having complete series without them.

And hell yeah we need Trombe. I also lowkey would hold the hope they would convince JAM Project, at least to put a song or two. They have turned into such an iconic element to the franchise that as unlikely it might be I think its truly something that it would elevate to a whole level how they would representate it. Probably Messiah of Steel and Skill/Gong/Victory cuz they are the most iconic imo.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Lowkey KH was the thing it started to give me hope, with the notorious thing that SRW has a lot more of content that is separated of the animes to the point of having complete series without them.

And hell yeah we need Trombe. I also lowkey would hold the hope they would convince JAM Project, at least to put a song or two. They have turned into such an iconic element to the franchise that as unlikely it might be I think its truly something that it would elevate to a whole level how they would representate it. Probably Messiah of Steel and Skill/Gong/Victory cuz they are the most iconic imo.

SRW rivals Sonic in having some of the most hype final boss themes in gaming.

But i doubt they would ever put them in because Jam project is the band that made them. (You'd have to pay multiple singers for royalties maybe? I dont know jack about music licensing)
Granted one of the singers of Jam project sang a large chunk of the Pokemon openings so they already have one of them connected to Nintendo.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

If they bring back Palutena's guidances i really hope they have the foresight to bring the actors in to record lines for the next batch of DLC fighters.

Although they did for Bayonetta’s trailer in Smash 4 but not for the actual game.