Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

The fallacy with Xenoblade 3, coming from both angles, is that it is buckled by the same restrictions that infest Pokemon or Fire Emblem representation. Xenoblade being a cyclical, "promo" type series is something that the community has entirely made up itself. I've always felt that this is a really premature judgement, and neither Shulk nor Pyra and Mythra were added under these conditions. With that in mind, two things are true.

Point one is what Poppy Bro said, that timing is not the be all end all of this character's inclusion. I think if Xenoblade 4 dropped tomorrow then maybe it would be an issue, but since that isn't happening I don't think it's in that much danger of being rendered especially irrelevant by release. Compared to someone like Alear I don't think Noah or Mio need to worry about competition.

Point two is that more Xenoblade content is not a guarantee in the same way those other aforementioned series are. This has been my personal reservation with backing the XB3 horse, kind of an overcorrection on my part to make the point that many are jumping the gun on its obligation. To many, the addition of a Xenoblade 3 character is an assurance the way a new Pokemon or Fire Emblem are by precedent. I think it's ultimately kind of reductive of Xenoblade to paint it in this way. It's also not that absolutely massive of a series to mandate a designated new slot every game like Pokemon... this isn't to discredit their odds entirely, but I do not like the way or reasons it manifests onto most rosters. You know?

I'm currently not sure how to feel about it, but I always consider Noah / Mio a really interesting case worth at least keeping an eye on.

Yeah, I dunno if Noah/Mio is guaranteed, but I just really like the characters, locations, and music in 3 and I really hope they get the full package lol

 

[Swamp Sensei]

By the way, think we'll learn of the Switch 2 in October?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

HW doesn't have any real ties to the canon either way. Even the first Tingle game has more relations to the Toon style, and the canon of the latter is at best dubious.

Meanwhile, HW in itself was deliberately designed to be a fun crossover. Age of Calamity in comparison was made to relate to BOTW, but is non-canon too.

We also don't know how the licensing works for some designs. Nintendo may not have full ownership of the unique ones(whereas AoC borrows from a specific Zelda game instead of making its own most of the time) either, making them not worth trying to get. Never mind that as a spin-off, Nintendo might not even want them to be representation of the character's official canonical designs when used in Smash. Every single Zelda character is designed after a canon game to begin with. It's just as easily on Nintendo as it is on Sakurai. As long as something is a non-canon spin-off, its usage is dubious with how companies can act. It can absolutely vary, of course. Light references to one may exist, but hard references are not as likely. It still of course depends upon the company. Sometimes a color alt might reference a non-canon source, but still represents how they overall want the core design(Sonic's dark costume is quite similar to Dark Super Sonic, but it doesn't change the core design, something that other franchises would have to deal with. Everything in HW(the original) for designs are quite different from the original, so they might not represent how Nintendo feels they should be.

Also, I do remember that the AoC Spirits were licensed to Koei Tecmo, so we pretty clearly know licensing is an issue. How much, not sure. But it's there. Nintendo as well, but they were clearly required. And that's with those not even being HW-specific designs, which should say a lot.

 

[RodNutTakin]

I understand the movement for Impa. This is kind of a pick I've always been a bit stubbornly opposed to putting too much stock in, since it has always read to me as something of a desperation to find the "sensible" option. Again, I get it, but I don't know if any of Impa's singular appearances are demanding her to be playable over even those one or two shot characters who have left more of a prominent, lasting impression. Sidon is a choice that I'm really not all that confident in, I'm just kind of spitballing with Switch-era Zelda picks, but Impa is the kind of character I'm really just gonna have to see to believe.

No worries. Like I said, I don't have any real stake in the Zelda series proper and I'm certainly not going to lose much sleep over who gets picked, the more important matter is if anyone new gets added at all. It would be much easier to name a character if there was a single one consistently being rallied, but the split nature of everything regarding the series does kind of force me to stick to the "safe" option in my gut.

Octolings will be playable, 100%. I'm just not convinced they will be fully original characters, so I left them off of this list on the assumption they will be clones. My dark horse scenario is just that Splatoon is a series that can easily justify two new faces after such tremendous growth, and Smash Ultimate pretty much just accounting for Splatoon 1 for the most part. Contrary to Animal Crossing, it is also a series that specializes in diverse combat. So yeah even though it could get by with two characters, I'm going out on a limb and advocating for it to get just a little more than what's "safe" to assume.

As for the idols themselves, when we're thinking about some of the most popular new faces to come out of the last decade then they ought to be in the conversation. Off the Hook is demonstrably the most popular of the three as well, and IMO just offer the best material. I think this is a very prominent and well loved part of the series that is easy to neglect but would make a lot of sense to see implemented proper.

I personally think Octolings have much room to be Isabelle'd here, using weapons featured in 2 and 3 while keeping the Inkling as primarily 1-inspired. This may be an outsider perspective bleeding in again as well, since most of the time I see either the Sisters or Off the Hook, they aren't usually in combative roles story-wise, and while Deep Cut in 3 has actual fights, my understanding is that they are not as popular.
As I have alluded to before, I feel that, while not as dire as Ultimate, I feel the newcomer count for next game's base will be hampered a bit by the big amount of characters I expect to return initially, and to me, I imagine they will want to keep the newcomer list diverse series-wise. But I will concede that someone fresh (huehue) may be on the table if they go the lame route and make Octolings practically "Daisy & Richter in Ultimate" levels of clone.
My personal idea of a "meeting things partway" option could be having the Octoling explicitly be representing Agent 8 from Octo Expansion, they come with an Octo Expansion stage, and they would have a Smash Taunt that lets Marina and Pearl comment on one of the fighters like Palutena's Guidence and Codec Calls before them.

This is how I felt for a while, but I came around on it. I also think Mach Rider is insanely cool, and for a while (still, kinda) they were my most wanted retro choice. But Excitebiker speaks more to me lately in the context of Smash, creating a clear, streamlined premise around a simple Nintendo classic a la Duck Hunt or Ice Climbers. And Excitebike remains one of the most prominent pieces of early Nintendo arcade / Famicom branding, perhaps the most significant absent from the game right now. I still really like Mach Rider, but part of me feels like it's "too much" for Smash when the simple premise of a permanently mounted biker is already enough material to build off of. But I'd really like either of them.

To echo your words earlier, it's pretty much a "I'd have to see it to believe it" situation for me, to be honest. But like I said with the Zelda character, I won't lose sleep over being wrong about the "gag" character prediction...even though I think Diskun would be cool and also be a throwback to ROB's inclusion.

I'll say fair enough on Oatchi, I'm still not like 100% convinced and I also believe he'd make a fine Assist Trophy. But I also recognize the way Pikmin has become a central Nintendo brand, and I think it's ready to make the jump to a two character series. Oatchi has been a marketing machine, with plenty of merch to his name already, I'm seeing his face on juice pouches. I realize that this on its own doesn't warrant him to be playable, but I think it's worth considering just how much Pikmin's brand hinges on its creatures. Oatchi has kind of cemented this big new mascot that I think has a good deal of staying power. I'm not gonna die on this hill but I'll defend his placement.

Honestly...I want Pikmin to have a boss next time, if we're talking about the creatures (on top of putting in more enemies if we get Smash Run back). Again, this mainly is going off of me assuming newcomer spots are still going to be a bit of a tight squeeze here. I can see the character missing the boat in favor of more requested characters and other late-Switch headliners, this is far from the first time a series would weirdly miss out on a new character despite circumstances.

Tom Nook and Isaac are characters I'm very confident about. Nook for his level of mascot omnipresence for not just Animal Crossing but Nintendo as a whole, and Isaac for his presumably strong ballot showing. For what it's worth, Nintendo doesn't pump out a lot of big new IPs anymore so I think it's feasible that we are able to pull back toward an older one. Golden Sun got a surprisingly solid showing in Ultimate, so I really think he's one of those characters that would have made it had the crop of newcomers been "normal". And Animal Crossing really speaks for itself. We can split hairs on how much potential Nook has on his own (I've defended it frequently, for what it's worth) but I seriously think AC's series growth is too massive not to account for. And Nook kind of took a backseat in New Leaf, but Horizons re-established him as a major player equivalent to Isabelle again. So I think the timing is right and if Tom Nook is on the table I see virtually no first party out-prioritizing him. Want to suggest also that casual audiences adore Animal Crossing, so similarly to Waluigi this is a character with a lot of pull toward those less intimately familiar with Nintendo.

I have no brakes with Isaac, I actually somewhat considered putting him on my prediction outright, but I'm not fully confident enough to not envision him having to fight for the "last spot" on my base game prediction roster. And of course, Nook is one of his opponents. I will say Nook has a better shot in my eyes than Oatchi, but some of the other characters or series I have seen push for (Ayumi, Takamaru, a Rhythm Heaven fighter, obviously Isaac) could edge out in terms of a face-value moveset diversity standpoint, some more likely than others. I think my feelings are going to have to be a "wait and see" situation--going off of Swamp's survey, Tom may have been fifth overall, but it's a very close fifth--Ashley, Krystal and Isaac were all in arms' reach distance of outperforming him (all of them had a difference with him of just 10 or less votes). Even if Animal Crossing is undeniably strong, I still think Tom has pretty stiff competition from a "what the fans want" angle.

Noah, Bandana Dee, Officer Howard. I guess the most I can say about this is the reverse of what you said to me, that in competition for these base slots I'm inclined to advocate for at least Isaac and Nook first. BWD has a strong case given his popularity, and I'm not opposed. He could replace Oatchi if you want, although I'm perpetually skeptical about Kirby's character lineup. I do acknowledge BWD's demand and frankly how much he deserves it at this point - particularly after Star Allies and Forgotten Land. He just narrowly misses the boat for me.

I'm less convinced on Noah, although I couldn't fault anyone for it. I just think people overestimate the necessity to have a Xenoblade 3 character on the roster. Xenoblade is still a relatively small series, and I don't mean to be harsh but XB3 did not rock the world the way XB2 did. I'm not saying this means it absolutely won't get a character, but that Pyra and Mythra are still viable representatives for XB's growth on the Switch. Consider this a character that I wouldn't be surprised about, but I'm personally not hedging my bets toward. And the same goes for Astral Chain, a game that has seen fairly decent success but I'm not convinced this is batting any higher than "AT level" first parties from Brawl era like Golden Sun or Sin & Punishment. Kind of a gut feeling, but I did acknowledge the relative lack of new Nintendo IP. So if they wanna pull something, or Sakurai feels inspired, then it's a decent option but IMO inessential.

Truthfully, Waddle Dee on my prediction roster used to be a second Fan Pick placeholder, as he was the one character I intially could see things going either way, and it was him briefly topping Swamp's survey that was the push I needed to give him (or at least his species) a solid spot. In hindsight, it is easy to make excuses for him missing previous games--Smash 4 had its lineup decided before HAL became more committed to the character, and Ultimate had very little room for new first-parties, particularly ones coasting on demand. However, I feel the status quo has certainly been shaken up since then, particularly after Forgotten Land became the new #1 Kirby game in terms of sales, which heavily features Waddle Dees in general. Admittedly I was a bit cheeky and had the slot be a generic Waddle Dee slot--I don't realistically think Sakurai would be that cheeky/petty to focus on the generic Dee over the spear-chucker many of you love, but I don't know the man personally any more than any of you do. But the main point is that it's hard to deny at the very least how much Waddle Dees as a whole have been pushed by HAL, between their prominence in FL, having an April Fools' joke dedicated to them, having Mr. Bandanna himself being assigned to Player 2 in a good amount of recent games (including being the first Dream Friend you obtain in Star Allies IIRC). I think this is all going to hinge on the do-or-die moment of what Sakurai does with Kirby representation in general next game.

XB3 may not have reached the highs of 2, but being lesser than the previous game didn't stop us from getting Corrin, who I felt was less justifiable from a series growth standpoint when they got in. I know it is a low hanging fruit to point out, but the various flavors of RPGs seem to be the Smash devs' bread-and-butter with choosing characters to translate to Smash, and I doubt much will change here. I am not sure if the "viable representatives for growth on the Switch" comment means you'd sooner expect a character from a hypothetical Xenoblade 4 on the next system--but (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe I remember seeing something impying that Monolith was taking a break from the series after 3 to do something else. I don't think there is any harm in expanding the Xenoblade fighter lineup further currently. If 3 proves to remain unpopular even after future installments come out, I also think it wouldn't be too much of a loss to cycle out Noah and his cat-ears friend on a future roster with someone more notable. I know it may be unfair to lump Xenoblade in with Fire Emblem and Pokemon in terms of becoming a cyclical series, but other than the possible aforementioned thing of Monolith maybe taking a break, I don't see any justification for the series to end either like how Mother did. Regardless, I think Noah feels in line with a good amount of characters that have also been added in the last couple of Smash games. The devs love their humans with big swingy things.

As for Astral Chain, the main reason I cling onto it currently is simply because there isn't really much else in terms of brand new Switch IPs without characters, and any new IPs made for the next system will likely have to arrive late with DLC. I think it is unfair to compare it to Golden Sun and S&P's situations, since both series were skipped over during a time where there were a lot of potential options for fresh series to get in the game. If AC was still under Platinum's thumb, I would be singing a very different tune, but Nintendo's acquisition tells me that they see some value in the property. I think we'll have to wait and see if a follow-up comes quickly for the next system or not.

I'm sorry if they bore you, but I really don't see Zero being prioritized over Chun-Li. On his own I understand his value, and I get where you're coming from with his assets already being present in the game, but if we're expanding on mainstay third party series then Chun-Li is pretty much the absolute biggest no-brainer available. She's a character with strong crossover appeal, where being able to pit her against Peach or Samus feels like a selling point in its own right. She's one of the single most iconic video game characters absent from the game and pretty much justifies herself on her own star power, independent from being a second SF rep. Zero is great, but I personally think he gets eclipsed here and I don't see myself budging on that.

Genuinely, my only hold-up is that every third-party addition to Smash so far has had an obvious gameplan in terms of adding content, which is why my needle is towards Zero. When Ken was added to Ultimate, he brought practically the entire Hyper Street Fighter II OST, spirits for every SF2 fighter, a Guile Assist plus an arrangement of the family man's theme PLUS an extra arrangement of Claw's theme, and a dedicated World of Light section based off of SF2. Ken basically brought in all of the Street Fighter II-relevant content that was missing from Ryu's Smash 4 inclusion, and to me, that honestly leaves Chun-Li in a void of uncertainity. Yes, she could bring in content from later titles she appears in, but I doubt people want her because "oh yeah, she'd totally represent 3rd Strike/Street Fighter 6!" It honestly feels like Ken stole her thunder in that regard, and I wouldn't have had any qualms if both had gotten in at the same time in Ultimate. That is pretty much one of my sticking points towards favoring Zero, since the X side of Mega Man is still pretty bare and Zero would be an obvious patch for that hole.

Monster Hunter I can go either way on. They aren't a character that I personally feel all that strong about. But MH already has a showing in Smash, and has seen sufficient growth in the time between Ultimate's release and the present day. It's absolutely massive overseas, MH World became Capcom's best selling game, and MH Rise was a hot Switch exclusive. If this doesn't happen I won't be surprised, I'll be convinced there really is just some reservation internally about making a generic Hunter playable, but I'm willing to give them one more chance.

I actually think there is an easy solution to this problem in my eyes, and it's actually a solution that has been done before in the series; give the series everything a fighter-represented series would have, short of an actual fighter, just like with Animal Crossing in Brawl. While AC did get playable characters later on, its treatment in Brawl means that there is good precedent for a solution like this being done for another series that is less player-character focused in promotion, like...well, Monster Hunter.

I get that, this is one of those things where I can't fault someone for just abiding by the status quo. We don't really know what the deal with indie fighters in next Smash will be, but I think Undertale is like... just WAY bigger than Shovel Knight. Compared to Undertale's viral worldwide success, its remarkable popularity in Japan, Shovel Knight is absolutely trumped. I personally feel this is a different case, where Undertale is straight up maybe the most crowd pleasing western character that can be added from an overseas perspective. And I think it's fair game for base roster just because the negotiations for indie properties are probably much less difficult and Toby has already been a very willing participant. IMO this is a great bang for your buck pick.

As for Kris, I just don't really get this perspective. Undertale has had nearly 10 years to establish its legacy and popularity and Deltarune simply hasn't and likely won't surpass that. I'm absolutely loving everything about Deltraune so far, but if we got a character I'm certain it would just be from Undertale. At least for next game, maybe by Smash 7 Deltarune will have firmly planted its full release as Toby's magnum opus.

My primary hold-up with Undertale is that it feels borderline incongruent with the "protagonist-first" mentality Smash has used for nearly every other series, and has only slightly been bent for ARMS (and this likely wouldn't have happened if Ultimate came out later in the Switch's life than it did, tbh). The morality system with the Fallen Children feel like a headache to work with in a Smash context, on top of the children themselves not being the ones marketed in merchandise. Sans moving out and about and taking hits like other fighters feels OOC, and the other boss monsters outside of probably Papyrus all kind of share equal importance enough for me to have a hard time selecting one as a representative. It's not like something like Cave Story, Shovel Knight, Hades, Touhou where I could easily say "yes, the player character would fit Smash well enough from a character and gameplay standpoint".
My perspective for Kris was that, even though he is as much of a mute as Link or the DQ Heroes, he is much more easy in my mind to pin down fighting-style wise than Undertale's fallen children, since Deltarune has less emphasis on the "kill-or-spare" nature for its combat sequence. But I did say I only envisioned him as being a late, late DLC character for a reason, being that I can only see Toby wanting him as a fighter once he's got the remainder of Deltarune fleshed out and finalized. I guess as it stands, Undertale is indeed probably the Indie ever, but it's in the awkward position where both of its seemingly-obvious first-picks are very, very unclear in terms of how they could translate to Smash smoothly.
would still be easier than anyone from Five Nights at Freddy's, at least...

 

[Louie G.]

Admittedly I was a bit cheeky and had the slot be a generic Waddle Dee slot--I don't realistically think Sakurai would be that cheeky/petty to focus on the generic Dee over the spear-chucker many of you love, but I don't know the man personally any more than any of you do. But the main point is that it's hard to deny at the very least how much Waddle Dees as a whole have been pushed by HAL, between their prominence in FL, having an April Fools' joke dedicated to them, having Mr. Bandanna himself being assigned to Player 2 in a good amount of recent games (including being the first Dream Friend you obtain in Star Allies IIRC). I think this is all going to hinge on the do-or-die moment of what Sakurai does with Kirby representation in general next game.

What's funny is I also had this idea independent of you, and I'm also unsure how much I buy into it but I am inclined to agree that Sakurai might feel more inclined to represent Waddle Dees as an "idea" rather than the one specific Waddle Dee. This ends up being a kind of have your cake and eat it too situation with Sakurai where he doesn't have to stretch so far outside of his comfort zone (Kirby games he worked on) but is still technically giving the people what they want from outside of the bubble.

And yes, it's worth noting that HAL often puts the spotlight on "Waddle Dee" the species rather than "Waddle Dee" the character. This is another thing that got my mind racing. I do think BWD stock is up from the last couple games, and he works as the species representative either way, so it's not a big deal but I do suspect if he makes it then it will center strongly around him being THE Waddle Dee, and expanding on what that means.

My personal idea of a "meeting things partway" option could be having the Octoling explicitly be representing Agent 8 from Octo Expansion, they come with an Octo Expansion stage, and they would have a Smash Taunt that lets Marina and Pearl comment on one of the fighters like Palutena's Guidence and Codec Calls before them.

This is my ideal scenario for Octoling, but I'm just not sure. I've gotten this idea in my head that visual clarity is important for Smash, where often a character that looks a lot like another character's silhouette is inclined to be very similar to them in execution. We don't have many exceptions to this rule, and I strongly believe that character silhouette is a major, major element of the way Sakurai designs for Smash. Especially when we consider the way players sometimes need to be able to identify characters from a far distance. From this angle, Inkling and Octoling look about the same.

That's kind of why I like Pearl and Marina so much. Their designs are so dynamic and their silhouettes / body types provide strong contrast both against one another and against a playable Inkling / Octoling (moreso than Squid Sisters, notably). So my affinity for them comes largely from an attempt to "think like Sakurai", even beyond the fact that I do quite like them. And as for combat material, my argument is that every idol has a "favorite weapon type" and Pearl / Marina do get some active play in the DLC campaigns for 2 and 3. You don't get to see them fight so much, but if you strap them with existing weapon types from the game then we already have a strong point of reference for that. In some sense they are just Inklings / Octolings like anyone else.

But in addition to that, I visualize them at least partially as musical fighters since it would be somewhat of a waste to implement musicians without making their career a strong part of their identity. Abstract sound based attacks or dance choreography are fair game. Definitely think if we got an idol duo it would be a mix of some weapon stuff pulled directly from Splatoon with these thematic creative liberties.

 

[superprincess]

I never understood how people thought Hyrule Warriors designs in Smash would make sense. Why would Nintendo, in their own crossover game, use someone else's renditions of some of their most popular characters?

It just makes no sense. Koei Tecmo can have their own characters. No good reason to give Link, Zelda or Ganondorf anything other than in-house developed designs.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I mean in a series that has first party characters and third-party characters, at this point having first party renditions as worked on by a third party doesn't that out there as a concept even if only for one Smash entry.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I never understood how people thought Hyrule Warriors designs in Smash would make sense. Why would Nintendo, in their own crossover game, use someone else's renditions of some of their most popular characters?

It just makes no sense. Koei Tecmo can have their own characters. No good reason to give Link, Zelda or Ganondorf anything other than in-house developed designs.

I don't care if it doesn't make sense.

Those designs are ****ing awesome!

 

[Laniv]

I never understood how people thought Hyrule Warriors designs in Smash would make sense. Why would Nintendo, in their own crossover game, use someone else's renditions of some of their most popular characters?

It just makes no sense. Koei Tecmo can have their own characters. No good reason to give Link, Zelda or Ganondorf anything other than in-house developed designs.

Because they look cool. Next question

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They're cool, but yeah, they weren't realistic to expect. Being cool doesn't make them a realistic option.

It would be neat if they were used for some minor costumes, but there's no way they'd be the main designs at any point. Besides that, the only HW designs we got were AoC ones, and were already from BOTW/TOTK in general, so they already were pretty much Nintendo-created designs. Impa is pretty much just a revisioned Paya, the Diminutive Guardian is just a younger variant of the originals, and Kohga is pretty much the same.

Also, keep in mind how long it took to get any Oracle references, which were games made by Capcom. It's pretty clear licensing is not easy and non-in-game stuff is just not worth the extra money at times. We already knew that with Geno anyway, heh.

 

[Ivander]

Me watching the Zinogre three-quarters the size of Final Destination do an epic backflip and spike me at the edge of the screen
View attachment 394763

I must stress that every single large monster is borked. You thought Ridley was bad? That's cute, here our monsters are elephant sized as the bare minimum. And all the mascots are like twice as long.

Meanwhile, me with the Plesioth twice the size of Final Destination trying to swim around on on the stage:

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

For what it's worth, I don't like the Hyrule Warriors designs. They totally lack the unique Zelda charm and they look like they could have come from any fantasy game.
I much prefer Smash sticking to canon designs, or at least to make its own interpretations as Sakurai and his team have a good eye for this kind of stuff.

 

[Arcanir]

Meanwhile, me with the Plesioth twice the size of Final Destination trying to swim around on on the stage:

Meanwhile, it hipchecks the opponent in the opposite blastzone.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If returns, is there any new Minecraft content you’d like to see?

Creeper AT. That's it.

Though that begs the question; what new Assist Trophies would you like to see for the DLC series that didn’t get one?

Dragon Quest: A group of Slimes that merge into a King Slime if you don't kill them fast enough.
Final Fantasy: Cactuar and/or Tomberry.

I never understood how people thought Hyrule Warriors designs in Smash would make sense. Why would Nintendo, in their own crossover game, use someone else's renditions of some of their most popular characters?

Because they're the best some of those characters have ever looked.

HW Ganondorf is best Ganondorf. HW and AoC Impa are the TWO best Impa designs.

It's not as though KT made those designs without Nintendo's permission. Nintendo approved them.

 

[fogbadge]

I never understood how people thought Hyrule Warriors designs in Smash would make sense. Why would Nintendo, in their own crossover game, use someone else's renditions of some of their most popular characters?

It just makes no sense. Koei Tecmo can have their own characters. No good reason to give Link, Zelda or Ganondorf anything other than in-house developed designs.

you could argue that's what K.Rool's and Dark Samus' smash designs are

 

[Hypercat-Z]

I never understood how people thought Hyrule Warriors designs in Smash would make sense. Why would Nintendo, in their own crossover game, use someone else's renditions of some of their most popular characters?

Well, excuuuuuuuse me, princess!
I'd like to remind you that the modern design of Donley Kong, and of all the Kong family, was actually developed by Rare,before the divorce.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't care if it doesn't make sense.

Those designs are ****ing awesome!

As well as their combat abilities. It's a win win.

 

[Gengar84]

As well as their combat abilities. It's a win win.

I totally agree. Hyrule Warriors was also the first playable appearance for almost all of these characters so it makes sense to pull from that game even if it is a spinoff. I agree HW has a lot of awesome designs for the characters. They’re probably my second favorite for almost every character behind OoT Link, Ultimate Ganondorf, and TP Zelda. HW Impa is actually my favorite version of the character.

 

[Dinoman96]

The funny thing is that Smash hardly acknowledges Hyrule Warriors as is, there's literally nothing from it in the base Ultimate game and it took until post-release for that subseries to get any rep via spirits from Age of Calamity.

I think a big part of that is simply because Nintendo doesn't actually publish those games in Japan, they're really just third party Koei Tecmo games with licensed Nintendo characters. On the flipside of things, games like Mario + Rabbids got repped in base Ultimate because it's the exact opposite, as Nintendo published it in Japan (as opposed to the west where Ubisoft was the publisher).

It's still an interesting thought that Shantae is distinctly the only third party game repped in base Ultimate that doesn't have a playable rep, a game published by Nintendo in Japan (Even Shovel Knight and Rayman have that), or is owned by a company that does have a playable rep on the roster (i.e Akira is an AT while Sonic and Bayonetta are playable fighters from SEGA).

 

[Gengar84]

At the very least, I hope we can get some music from Hyrule Warriors in the next Smash. That game had such an awesome soundtrack. It’s such a shame that none of it made it into Ultimate. Age of Calamity had some cool music too that would be great in Smash but not much tops the original HW.

 

[Shinuto]

The funny thing is that Smash hardly acknowledges Hyrule Warriors as is, there's literally nothing from it in the base Ultimate game and it took until post-release for that subseries to get any rep via spirits from Age of Calamity.

I think a big part of that is simply because Nintendo doesn't actually publish those games in Japan, they're really just third party Koei Tecmo games with licensed Nintendo characters. On the flipside of things, games like Mario + Rabbids got repped in base Ultimate because it's the exact opposite, as Nintendo published it in Japan (as opposed to the west where Ubisoft was the publisher).

It's still an interesting thought that Shantae is distinctly the only third party game repped in base Ultimate that doesn't have a playable rep, a game published by Nintendo in Japan (Even Shovel Knight and Rayman have that), or is owned by a company that does have a playable rep on the roster (i.e Akira is an AT while Sonic and Bayonetta are playable fighters from SEGA).

It speaks to her popularity and charm

 

[Wunderwaft]

By the way, think we'll learn of the Switch 2 in October?

Yes, and the mods should create a sub forum for the untitled next Smash game while we're at it so we can start organizing character threads.

 

[Shinuto]

I wish I could be a fly on the wall when they were deciding to put in Shantae spirits in the base game and mii costume for dlc and wonder what the process was.

 

[superprincess]

Well, excuuuuuuuse me, princess!
I'd like to remind you that the modern design of Donley Kong, and of all the Kong family, was actually developed by Rare,before the divorce.

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And that design was then adopted by Nintendo for every. single. subsequent. DK game. Even Mario spinoffs used his Rareware design.

Meanwhile, blue-scarf Link hasn't been seen outside HW. No comparison here, we're grasping.

Also I disagree with the "they look cool!" argument. That's literally subjective. Maybe Link is cuter and Ganondorf is a more elevated version of TP Dorf but Zelda....? She looks so generic and anime mobile game-like. Completely lacks that LOZ charm.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

And that design was then adopted by Nintendo for every. single. subsequent. DK game. Even Mario spinoffs used his Rareware design.

Then that would mean Nintendo is no stranger in adopting other designs then.

Plus i think the designs themselves were designed in-house anyways. Mariko Hirokane, the art designer, had worked on Nintendo in-house games throughout

 

[Gengar84]

This is why I really want alts of different incarnations for the Zelda characters. That way, no matter who your favorite version of the character is, you still get to play as the one you like most. My personal favorites are OoT Link, Ultimate Ganondorf, TP Zelda, and HW Impa. If we can’t have HW costumes, I’ll settle for SS Impa since her design is pretty close and my second favorite.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm not sure there's any way of knowing whether or not Nintendo owns the Hyrule Warriors designs or characters. Given how protective of their IP they are, they probably own the existing character redesigns, but we have precedence of characters like this that they don't own like Geno and Vaati.

Even if they do own them, given how they have a lot of characters they don't use even if it would make sense (Waluigi in the Wario series being the prime example), I highly doubt we'll be seeing Lana, Cia, Volga, Wizzro, or Linkle ever again unless we get more Hyrule Warriors.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm not sure there's any way of knowing whether or not Nintendo owns the Hyrule Warriors designs or characters. Given how protective of their IP they are, they probably own the existing character redesigns, but we have precedence of characters like this that they don't own like Geno and Vaati.

Even if they do own them, given how they have a lot of characters they don't use even if it would make sense (Waluigi in the Wario series being the prime example), I highly doubt we'll be seeing Lana, Cia, Volga, Wizzro, or Linkle ever again unless we get more Hyrule Warriors.

Even though it will never happen, Wizzro would be awesome as a Smash character just from a design and moveset standpoint. He’s just so fun to use in HW and he looks really cool. The rest of the original characters would be fun too. Lana is my friend’s number one most wanted Smash character overall.

 

[Perkilator]

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Definitely either Iori or Nakoruru for me.

 

[Gengar84]

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Definitely either Iori or Nakoruru for me.

I don’t actually have a ton of experience with SNK games but I recently discovered that King of the Monsters was made by them. I actually owned both games on the SNES and I enjoyed them. The first was a fighting game and the second was more of a Beat ‘em Up. The monsters themselves are too big for playable characters but it would make for a cool stage at least.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

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Definitely either Iori or Nakoruru for me.

I always liked Athena Asamiya, let's get her in. It'd be interesting if they pulled a few things from Psycho Soldier, in addition to her KOF moveset.

 

[fogbadge]

And that design was then adopted by Nintendo for every. single. subsequent. DK game. Even Mario spinoffs used his Rareware design.

Meanwhile, blue-scarf Link hasn't been seen outside HW. No comparison here, we're grasping.

Also I disagree with the "they look cool!" argument. That's literally subjective. Maybe Link is cuter and Ganondorf is a more elevated version of TP Dorf but Zelda....? She looks so generic and anime mobile game-like. Completely lacks that LOZ charm.

but that is literally them doing what you said they’d never do

 

[Jave]

And that design was then adopted by Nintendo for every. single. subsequent. DK game. Even Mario spinoffs used his Rareware design.

Meanwhile, blue-scarf Link hasn't been seen outside HW. No comparison here, we're grasping.

Also I disagree with the "they look cool!" argument. That's literally subjective. Maybe Link is cuter and Ganondorf is a more elevated version of TP Dorf but Zelda....? She looks so generic and anime mobile game-like. Completely lacks that LOZ charm.

When people ask for HW characters in Smash they don't necessarily ask for their versions of Link/Zelda/Ganondorf. I mean I'm sure SOME do, but I believe most people are aware that getting those versions of the characters even just as an alt is kind of a longshot.

People mostly ask for HW versions of more secondary characters like Impa, Marin or Skull Kid because HW and/or AoC are the only games where those characters are playable (or at least playable to a traditional extent), so when coming up with moveset ideas people will obviously look at the games where the characters can actually be controlled, and their designs will logically carry over to those movesets.

Impa is the most obvious example. HW and AoC are the only games where she is playable and her designs are widely different from any of the mainline games, and even as an NPC, she doesn't do much in the mainline games in terms of fighting. Personally I don't think the Naginata moveset from HW or the Ninja style from AoC fit any of her mainline designs, so obviously I will support HW and AoC Impa (I prefer HW but I won't complain if we get AoC).

 

[jamesster445]

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Definitely either Iori or Nakoruru for me.

Goose Howard

 

[dezeray112]

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Definitely either Iori or Nakoruru for me.

For me, it would be between Rock Howard, Nakoruru or Mai Shiranui. But then again, they could also put Kyo Kusanagi, Marco Rossi as potential candidates too.

I'm already looking forward to that new Fatal Fury: City of the Wolves game especially since that it will have Ken and Chun-Li crossing over as guests.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Goose Howard

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[Gengar84]

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The first thing that came to my mind was this lol

 

[Laniv]

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Definitely either Iori or Nakoruru for me.

Metal Slug babyyy

As an aside, with Mai Shiranui's new design in City of the Wolves, do y'all think she might have a shot at making a cameo appearance next game?

 

[Speed Weed]

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Definitely either Iori or Nakoruru for me.

The Ninja Commandos. For their Final Smash they go back in time to kill Oda Nobunaga

 

[Gengar84]

I really want to see an insect Smash Bros. character but I don’t think any of them are really popular or important enough to have much of a chance. Insect characters tend to have some of my favorite designs and I just think it would be really cool, that’s all.

Heres a few of my favorites by series:

Pokemon: Golisopod
Digimon: Tyrant Kabuterimon
League of Legends: Kha’Zix
Megaman: Kuwagust Anchus
Kirby: Buggzy

Sarah Kerrigan and the Zerg in general from StarCraft have a lot of insect traits and I’d say she’s the most likely character with any kind of insect theme for Smash. I’d love any of these but Kerrigan seems the most realistic.