Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm just saying. People had these discussions about Meta Knight and Bayonetta back in the day.

A character being OP is not a reason to cut them when they can just be tweaked instead.

 

[Gengar84]

Smash fans when the moat successful game of all time is in Smash

View attachment 394785

Lol, I wouldn’t go that far for myself. He was my least wanted but it makes sense why he was chosen so I was cool with it. My brother and friend were more bothered by Steve but I defended his inclusion and tried to explain why they added him.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'm just saying. People had these discussions about Meta Knight and Bayonetta back in the day.

A character being OP is not a reason to cut them when they can just be tweaked instead.

Especially Bayo, I remember watching reactions to Everyone is Here when it came out and it felt like half of them were like "NOOOOO" when Bayonetta was shown even though they knew it was happening lmao

 

[MeteoRain]

Steve's inclusion in Smash Brothers relatively recently has been a quite a contravesial topic especially in terms of balance, the amount of complexity getting him in and his competitive placement. Being the best character in-game according to tier-list to being busted and causing ires and for bans.

Do you think it's possible for him to return next game especially the difficulty implementing him with stages and mechanics?

Do you event want to return next-game or should get cut or even replace with other Microsoft reps like Crash or Master Chief?

Should Steve's moveset should be entirely revamped next game or should stay as is?

He's not getting replaced by Crash or Master Chief

I'm not an oracle but if he gets cut it would probably be because all Microsoft IPs didn't return to Smash

 

[Gengar84]

I could be wrong but I feel like Crash’s chances are a bit overestimated. If we’re just going by historical impact, I feel like other Activision/Blizzard series were bigger like StarCraft, WarCraft, and Diablo. Microsoft also has Halo and DOOM for huge iconic series. There is a strong argument that Crash’s rival mascot status on the PS1 could be enough though. I think a second RARE character has a strong case for a similar reason due to their connection to Nintendo. Crash also has fan support, which helps. Crash certainly still has a chance, I just don’t see him as the default most likely Microsoft rep.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I feel like other Activision/Blizzard series were bigger like StarCraft

Well at least in Japan Crash wasn't so unpopular that they never localized patches for the game nor the Brood War expansion, I'll give him that.

 

[Gengar84]

Well at least in Japan Crash wasn't so unpopular that they never localized patches for the game nor the Brood War expansion, I'll give him that.

Weird how a game can be so unpopular in one country and a huge cultural phenomenon in another. Not sure why Japan never took to StarCraft in the same way South Korea did.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Weird how a game can be so unpopular in one country and a huge cultural phenomenon in another. Not sure why Japan never took to StarCraft in the same way South Korea did.

PC gaming was always super-niche in Japan until recently.

Ironically despite this, SC actually got a Japanese dub on day 1, unlike Korea which had to wait until the remaster:

Starcraft quotes - Japanese version

Share your videos with friends, family and the world

www.youtube.com

 

[SharkLord]

I could be wrong but I feel like Crash’s chances are a bit overestimated. If we’re just going by historical impact, I feel like other Activision/Blizzard series were bigger like StarCraft, WarCraft, and Diablo. Microsoft also has Halo and DOOM for huge iconic series. There is a strong argument that Crash’s rival mascot status on the PS1 could be enough though. I think a second RARE character has a strong case for a similar reason due to their connection to Nintendo. Crash also has fan support, which helps. Crash certainly still has a chance, I just don’t see him as the default most likely Microsoft rep.

It definitely helps that Crash has outstanding fan support; Hell, I think he even got first place in the last SourceGaming megapoll. That said, you're also correct in that much of Microsoft's other IPs that they bought out are very impactful in the general sphere of pop culture. I think it'd be something of a Banjo situation, where Crash would be chosen for his ties to Nintendo (albeit as a former rival and not a former 64 exclusive) and fan support than hard sales.

Truth be told, though, I don't know if Crash would be chosen over another Microsoft character; As in, I don't think characters from the same company are necessarily mutually exclusive. Nintendo managed to negotiate Simon and Richter together on top of getting Snake back, and assuming they weren't negotiated for in advance during Smash 4's DLC cycle, they probably had to negotiate to get Mega Man AND Ryu back at the same time, on top of getting the rights to Ken. I don't think it's likely that we'd Crash and, say, Doomguy in the same DLC wave, but I don't think it's necessarily impossible. If Nintendo sees two popular, influential characters from the same company who would both make a big impact, I think they'd go for 'em regardless.

Unless their owners say no, obviously. Maybe Microsoft would attach too big a price tag on both. But still, we got Banjo and Steve just fine on top of Cuphead, Fallout, Dragonborn, and Doomguy Miis, so I don't think MS is that hard to work with.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I totally agree. Hyrule Warriors was also the first playable appearance for almost all of these characters so it makes sense to pull from that game even if it is a spinoff. I agree HW has a lot of awesome designs for the characters. They’re probably my second favorite for almost every character behind OoT Link, Ultimate Ganondorf, and TP Zelda. HW Impa is actually my favorite version of the character.

I get the sentiment that spin offs shouldn't be taken as much into account but... this is literally a fighting game ? Why shouldn't they take things in account ? Not fully comprehending this. HW did the most in terms of creating fitting move sets for the Smash Zelda cast. Better than Smash itself.

If an exception should be made, its very much this one. Especially for Age of Calamity since Nintendo promoted it as a true BOTW sequel, and is the best selling Warriors game.

However yeah, copyright might be an issue. Sure wish it wasn't though! But this doesn't seem as hard to manage as getting Sora, or **** even Cloud and Sephiroth or even Snake to get into Smash. But yeah I won't get into this.

Hyrule Warriors and its sequel shouldn't be overlooked is all am saying. Cause I even think the support of Midna and Skull Kid still lives because of this very game.

 

[dream1ng]

Even if rebalancing somehow wasn't an option consider that cutting Steve means you're giving up on that Minecraft money.

 

[cashregister9]

Monolith has a 25th anniversary site up

モノリスソフト設立25周年記念特設ページ| SPECIAL | モノリスソフト

皆さまに支えられて設立25周年を迎えました。

www.monolithsoft.co.jp

Not much new info but there are some wallpapers

If you want to stretch it could also be a decent indicator of what characters could be considered for smash? or some **** like that IDK

 

[dream1ng]

I could be wrong but I feel like Crash’s chances are a bit overestimated. If we’re just going by historical impact, I feel like other Activision/Blizzard series were bigger like StarCraft, WarCraft, and Diablo. Microsoft also has Halo and DOOM for huge iconic series. There is a strong argument that Crash’s rival mascot status on the PS1 could be enough though. I think a second RARE character has a strong case for a similar reason due to their connection to Nintendo. Crash also has fan support, which helps. Crash certainly still has a chance, I just don’t see him as the default most likely Microsoft rep.

I think Crash getting in would be due to demand, not the heights reached by his series, nor his (tenuous) connection to Nintendo. Third-parties aren't really included on that latter basis. It's just that having a connection can lend them demand, and that demand can get them included.

That's how Sonic, and Mega Man and Banjo did it. Because there are plenty of third-parties with some connection to Nintendo. That in an of itself isn't really enough, it needs to be leveraged into popularity. Look at the remaining Rare characters. They have a Nintendo connection, but let's be real, the chance of any of them being fighters is pretty small, as none really have much demand.

It definitely helps that Crash has outstanding fan support; Hell, I think he even got first place in the last SourceGaming megapoll. That said, you're also correct in that much of Microsoft's other IPs that they bought out are very impactful in the general sphere of pop culture. I think it'd be something of a Banjo situation, where Crash would be chosen for his ties to Nintendo (albeit as a former rival and not a former 64 exclusive) and fan support than hard sales.

Truth be told, though, I don't know if Crash would be chosen over another Microsoft character; As in, I don't think characters from the same company are necessarily mutually exclusive. Nintendo managed to negotiate Simon and Richter together on top of getting Snake back, and assuming they weren't negotiated for in advance during Smash 4's DLC cycle, they probably had to negotiate to get Mega Man AND Ryu back at the same time, on top of getting the rights to Ken. I don't think it's likely that we'd Crash and, say, Doomguy in the same DLC wave, but I don't think it's necessarily impossible. If Nintendo sees two popular, influential characters from the same company who would both make a big impact, I think they'd go for 'em regardless.

Unless their owners say no, obviously. Maybe Microsoft would attach too big a price tag on both. But still, we got Banjo and Steve just fine on top of Cuphead, Fallout, Dragonborn, and Doomguy Miis, so I don't think MS is that hard to work with.

No, characters from the same company aren't mutually exclusive, and it seems entirely possible we get multiple Microsoft newcomers, they have a wealth to choose from.

But also, whether they are licensed at the same time or not is probably going to be on a case by case basis. Like, for base, I would agree that, like, Snake and Simon were probably licensed at the same time. But I think, based on how the content was distributed, Cloud and Sephiroth may have also been licensed at the same time, with one just being held. And then, even though they were in the same wave, I think Sephiroth and Sora were not licensed at the same time (I know Disney owns the license, but Square was obviously involved). You also have to wonder if a character like Bayonetta was licensed for both Smash 4 DLC and Ultimate simultaneously.

I think some characters are licensed further in advance of when they show than others, and also that they will be licensed in waves, potentially returning to the same companies later on. I think it's pretty highly variable, and maybe Crash would be licensed at the same time as Banjo and Steve... or maybe it'd be much later. It depends on the rollout and the unique deals between the companies. There's no one pattern, imo.

Also I agree MS probably will be amenable to cooperation, but of that list only Banjo and Steve were (probably) involving MS. Cuphead the IP isn't owned by them, and Vault Boy, Dovahkiin and Doom Slayer were, I would guess, licensed at the same time, prior to the Bethesda buyout.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Monolith has a 25th anniversary site up

モノリスソフト設立25周年記念特設ページ| SPECIAL | モノリスソフト

皆さまに支えられて設立25周年を迎えました。

www.monolithsoft.co.jp

Not much new info but there are some wallpapers

If you want to stretch it could also be a decent indicator of what characters could be considered for smash? or some **** like that IDK

Having watched their 25th anniversary video, gotta say I didn't expect Raymond Bryce from Disaster: Day of Crisis to show up for a little bit in it lmao

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm just saying. People had these discussions about Meta Knight and Bayonetta back in the day.

A character being OP is not a reason to cut them when they can just be tweaked instead.

Maybe. But Bayonetta and Meta Knight turned out to be fine in later installments. I seriously think Steve by design is over tuned. He shouldn't be able to do all that. And doing all that is his whole design.

Or just make every block easily breakable and nerf the **** out of the foraging stuff especially diamond stuff. And maybe he's fine?

I just think / suspect he will at worst end up like Min Min.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

But still, we got Banjo and Steve just fine on top of Cuphead, Fallout, Dragonborn, and Doomguy Miis, so I don't think MS is that hard to work with.

Cuphead is not owned by Microsoft and Bethesda was not owned by Microsoft at the time the costumes happened. They are irrelevant to the point.

Correction; I am misinformed as I believed Bethesda was acquired in 2022.

Still applies to Fallout.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Maybe. But Bayonetta and Meta Knight turned out to be fine in later installments. I seriously think Steve by design is over tuned. He shouldn't be able to do all that. And doing all that is his whole design.

People said that about Meta Knight and Bayonetta too.

Especially Bayonetta.

 

[Diddy Kong]

People said that about Meta Knight and Bayonetta too.

Especially Bayonetta.

Well yeah. True. Her combo centric playstyle got nerfed in Ultimate, and eventually buffed. She's now a solid character again. But it just goes to show... certain character designs are just stronger than others by default. Unless they're not done right. Ultimate Marth for example. Or Bayonetta and Diddy before the buffs. Meta Knight also doesn't need to have that little reach for example.

 

[dream1ng]

Cuphead is not owned by Microsoft and Bethesda was not owned by Microsoft at the time the costumes happened. They are irrelevant to the point.

Correction; I am misinformed as I believed Bethesda was acquired in 2022.

Still applies to Fallout.

My guess, though I don't have proof or anything, is that the three were licensed simultaneously, all before the buyout, and just spread across different waves.

 

[SharkLord]

I think Crash getting in would be due to demand, not the heights reached by his series, nor his (tenuous) connection to Nintendo. Third-parties aren't really included on that latter basis. It's just that having a connection can lend them demand, and that demand can get them included.

That's how Sonic, and Mega Man and Banjo did it. Because there are plenty of third-parties with some connection to Nintendo. That in an of itself isn't really enough, it needs to be leveraged into popularity. Look at the remaining Rare characters. They have a Nintendo connection, but let's be real, the chance of any of them being fighters is pretty small, as none really have much demand.


No, characters from the same company aren't mutually exclusive, and it seems entirely possible we get multiple Microsoft newcomers, they have a wealth to choose from.

But also, whether they are licensed at the same time or not is probably going to be on a case by case basis. Like, for base, I would agree that, like, Snake and Simon were probably licensed at the same time. But I think, based on how the content was distributed, Cloud and Sephiroth may have also been licensed at the same time, with one just being held. And then, even though they were in the same wave, I think Sephiroth and Sora were not licensed at the same time (I know Disney owns the license, but Square was obviously involved). You also have to wonder if a character like Bayonetta was licensed for both Smash 4 DLC and Ultimate simultaneously.

I think some characters are licensed further in advance of when they show than others, and also that they will be licensed in waves, potentially returning to the same companies later on. I think it's pretty highly variable, and maybe Crash would be licensed at the same time as Banjo and Steve... or maybe it'd be much later. It depends on the rollout and the unique deals between the companies. There's no one pattern, imo.

Also I agree MS probably will be amenable to cooperation, but of that list only Banjo and Steve were (probably) involving MS. Cuphead the IP isn't owned by them, and Vault Boy, Dovahkiin and Doom Slayer were, I would guess, licensed at the same time, prior to the Bethesda buyout.

Yeah, Sora was explicitly stated to be a last-minute addition because Sakurai bumped into someone from Disney and they hit it off really well, so he was definitely licensed later.

Cuphead is not owned by Microsoft and Bethesda was not owned by Microsoft at the time the costumes happened. They are irrelevant to the point.

Correction; I am misinformed as I believed Bethesda was acquired in 2022.

Still applies to Fallout.

Zenimax was bought out in 2020 and the merger was completed in March of 2021, shortly before the second Fighters Pass began. Though, we don't know how far in advance supplementary content like Spirits or Mii Costumes are negotiated, so it's likely they were all negotiated before the merger.

With Cuphead I was under the assumption that Microsoft had some sort of presence in the IP, but it seems Cuphead is published by the devs. Perhaps MS funded the development or something. I'm pretty sure there was something about Microsoft being responsible for the Switch port, though

 

[dream1ng]

Yeah, Sora was explicitly stated to be a last-minute addition because Sakurai bumped into someone from Disney and they hit it off really well, so he was definitely licensed later.

Zenimax was bought out in 2020 and the merger was completed in March of 2021, shortly before the second Fighters Pass began. Though, we don't know how far in advance supplementary content like Spirits or Mii Costumes are negotiated, so it's likely they were all negotiated before the merger.

With Cuphead I was under the assumption that Microsoft had some sort of presence in the IP, but it seems Cuphead is published by the devs. Perhaps MS funded the development or something. I'm pretty sure there was something about Microsoft being responsible for the Switch port, though

MS owns the rights to the first game, but not the IP itself. So MS needed to sign off for it to come to non Xbox platforms, but Studio MDHR owns all the content, so MS wouldn't be necessary to license the character.

 

[SharkLord]

MS owns the rights to the first game, but not the IP itself. So MS needed to sign off for it to come to non Xbox platforms, but Studio MDHR owns all the content, so MS wouldn't be necessary to license the character.

Aaaah, so that's what it was. That explains it

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Microsoft owns so many big series at this point, they could create their own crossover game if they wanted to. But I would like Dovahkiin as the next one in Smash. I always liked his design, and you could work some of his shouts into his moveset.

 

[BritishGuy54]

If Microsoft returns to the next Smash, is the face they will use. Minecraft is so big that it could justify two ATs all to itself.

There would undoubtedly be nerfs. Even if Netherite weapons get thrown into the mix next time, it won’t be as busted.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

I really want to see an insect Smash Bros. character but I don’t think any of them are really popular or important enough to have much of a chance. Insect characters tend to have some of my favorite designs and I just think it would be really cool, that’s all.

Heres a few of my favorites by series:

Pokemon: Golisopod
Digimon: Tyrant Kabuterimon
League of Legends: Kha’Zix
Megaman: Kuwagust Anchus
Kirby: Buggzy

Sarah Kerrigan and the Zerg in general from StarCraft have a lot of insect traits and I’d say she’s the most likely character with any kind of insect theme for Smash. I’d love any of these but Kerrigan seems the most realistic.

Queen Sectonia

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Smash fans when the most successful game of all time is in Smash

View attachment 394785

It's not that drastic but there are quite a lot of Old-head responses. I personally like Steve even if he is hard to grasp when playing. He is only unique DLC characters alongside Piranha Plant and probably Hero. He definitely brings the best DLC stage out of all the passes probably besides Momentos and the Spirits selections was neat

I know there was this civil war when came to speculation between Banjo vs Steve and then the narrative was Banjo overcame the evil Steve because honestly, as a Smash inclusion, I prefer Steve over Banjo. Which is weird to say as I don't like Minecraft, the game itself, outside Dungeons and BK is a platformer and I love platformers.

I would want him to return to Smash 6 and getting some assists like Creepers or even Ender Dragon as a Boss. I don't think him being competitively strong should bar him for entry. Minecraft is the most successful game in history. If Smash actually is a gaming celebration then him being cut would be a stupid idea.

I'm just saying. People had these discussions about Meta Knight and Bayonetta back in the day.

A character being OP is not a reason to cut them when they can just be tweaked instead.

Don't think that comparison really works. Meta-Knight and Bayonetta were just overtuned which was dial-backed in later entries whilst keeping their overall core-design in tact.

Steve's issue that his OP-ness stems from how his character is designed in Smash and how it's pure translation from his game. I don't know how meaningfully nerf him without radically his entire character

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I don't know a lot about top tier Steve but I feel like with some nerfs to his frame data and damage output he'd be mostly fine?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I could be wrong but I feel like Crash’s chances are a bit overestimated. If we’re just going by historical impact, I feel like other Activision/Blizzard series were bigger like StarCraft, WarCraft, and Diablo. Microsoft also has Halo and DOOM for huge iconic series.

None of that matters to the Smash fandom though, because most of those are PC characters. And Nintendo fans don't know PC characters exist.

 

[Gengar84]

None of that matters to the Smash fandom though, because most of those are PC characters. And Nintendo fans don't know PC characters exist.

I don’t understand how PC is so overlooked by Nintendo fans. I imagine most people own a PC so it would probably be easier for them to play PC than buy another expensive console like PlayStation or X-Box. True, you do have to spend more on a good PC if you want to play the newest AAA games but there are plenty of smaller games that aren’t as demanding. Until this Gen, I’ve bought every Nintendo console and PlayStation but PS5 didn’t have enough that interested me to justify the cost. I think I might stick to Nintendo and PC from here on if nothing changes.

Isn’t Minecraft also primarily a PC game itself? I know it was ported later but I feel like most people still play it on PC. I could be totally wrong there though.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I don’t understand how PC is so overlooked by Nintendo fans. I imagine most people own a PC so it would probably be easier for them to play PC than buy another expensive console like PlayStation or X-Box. True, you do have to spend more on a good PC if you want to play the newest AAA games but there are plenty of smaller games that aren’t as demanding. Until this Gen, I’ve bought every Nintendo console and PlayStation but PS5 didn’t have enough that interested me to justify the cost. I think I might stick to Nintendo and PC from here on if nothing changes.

Isn’t Minecraft also primarily a PC game itself? I know it was ported later but I feel like most people still play it on PC. I could be totally wrong there though.

PCs aren’t as common as most would think. They’re still relatively niche, and may become more so, nowadays where most kids have grown up with consoles and smart devices.

And with Minecraft, it’s a strange situation where most content creators played on PC (mainly Java).

Meanwhile, most casual gamers play on the legacy console editions and the current Bedrock edition, which contributed to Minecraft itself becoming very successful and well known.

Most people know that PC content exists, but I doubt many of them actually played on PC beyond school.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't know a lot about top tier Steve but I feel like with some nerfs to his frame data and damage output he'd be mostly fine?

It's not just that. His anvil has a ridiculously large hitbox, being able to simultaneously walk and loop his forward tilt even more than Mega Man can is bound to be annoying, and his blocks are too strong, last too long, and make up for his limited mobility a bit too well.

And that's not even half of his problems.

 

[Will]

I think playing Steve is fun.​

 

[Hypercat-Z]

ATM Carmen Sandiego is probably the most popular computer game character, mostly due to her two animated series.

 

[Gengar84]

ATM Carmen Sandiego is probably the most popular computer game character, mostly due to her two animated series.

I think she probably was back in the 90’s but is Carmen Sandiego used anymore these days? I’m not sure I’d consider her bigger than someone like Jinx who also had a widely successful animated show on Netflix with a new season coming out in a couple months. Carmen would make for a very interesting Smash character though.

 

[AreJay25]

I think she probably was back in the 90’s but is Carmen Sandiego used anymore these days? I’m not sure I’d consider her bigger than someone like Jinx who also had a widely successful animated show on Netflix with a new season coming out in a couple months. Carmen would make for a very interesting Smash character though.

Well she literally had a new game announced a few weeks ago lol.

Granted, I don't think she's particularly likely whatsoever, but hey.

 

[Gengar84]

Well she literally had a new game announced a few weeks ago lol.

Granted, I don't think she's particularly likely whatsoever, but hey.

Oh that’s cool. I used to watch the game show when I was younger but I hadn’t kept up with the series since then. Cool to see they’re still doing something with the property.

 

[chinkuru]

I really want to see an insect Smash Bros. character but I don’t think any of them are really popular or important enough to have much of a chance. Insect characters tend to have some of my favorite designs and I just think it would be really cool, that’s all.

Heres a few of my favorites by series:

Pokemon: Golisopod
Digimon: Tyrant Kabuterimon
League of Legends: Kha’Zix
Megaman: Kuwagust Anchus
Kirby: Buggzy

Sarah Kerrigan and the Zerg in general from StarCraft have a lot of insect traits and I’d say she’s the most likely character with any kind of insect theme for Smash. I’d love any of these but Kerrigan seems the most realistic.

The perfect bug newcomer, Sakurai's v pet

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I am going to try to sell you on Oatchi from Pikmin 4 as a Smash bros. character, here is a basic moveset mock up. Artwork is borrowed from Kino Takahashi's official Pikmin 4 comic strips.


General Stats and Premise

Down Special: Lumiknoll Dig

Neutral Special: Glowmob

Side Special: Mega Rush

Up Special: Space Dog Lift-off

Misc. Mechanics

Final Smash: The Glowbomb

 

[FazDude]

I am going to try to sell you on Oatchi from Pikmin 4 as a Smash bros. character, here is a basic moveset mock up. Artwork is borrowed from Kino Takahashi's official Pikmin 4 comic strips.


General Stats and Premise
View attachment 394798

Down Special: Lumiknoll Dig
View attachment 394800

Neutral Special: Glowmob
View attachment 394801

Side Special: Mega Rush
View attachment 394802

Up Special: Space Dog Lift-off
View attachment 394803

Misc. Mechanics
View attachment 394804

Final Smash: The Glowbomb
View attachment 394805​

Consider me sold - This looks pretty fun!

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Consider me sold - This looks pretty fun!

Thank you, Fazdude