Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Diddy Kong]

Phantom Slash has the benefit of being a move added in Smash 4, years after Melee based her off of Ocarina of Time, which is why her magic is themed after that game's spells.

I think it would be strange for them to just replace one of the three named magic spells and leave the other two...
so I think we should scrap all of them tbh.

Like none of them are particularly interesting and I feel like she is really lacking in terms of "light" powers, opting to mainly use fire or sparkles. Give me Age of Calamity's laser beam goddess inspired moveset please.

Been telling all along that these games shouldn't be ignored in terms of move set potential. Zelda, Ganondorf, Sheik, Toon Link, Impa, yo even Link himself as his move set is seriously overtuned... it would in my opinion be the best case scenario.

 

[fogbadge]

Now that you mention it... I wonder if Nintendo will ever consider developing a remake of Detective Club 3 (Ironically enough, the D.C. game where Ayumi was the star).

probably not. nintendo don't see to acknowledge the satellaview games a lot. at least not outside of japan. and they certainly don't seem to count any of them as part of the main series of their franchises so I imagine as far as they're concerned Emio is FDC3

Do you guys think that, with time, another Zelda character could rival the non-Triforce Trio of Skull Kid, Impa and Midna in terms of demand?

Those three are on another level.

it's possible but I doubt it. it my experience the zelda fan mostly just argues with each other so I have a hard time picturing them rallying around anyone

 

[Gengar84]

Nintendo is my favorite game company and has more characters and franchises I care about than any other company. There are still quite a few first party characters I’d be excited for. That said, a lot of my remaining favorite first party characters are more niche side characters that aren’t terribly likely to join Smash. A lot of my more realistic favorites are already in. For that reason, I’m generally more hyped for some of my favorite third party characters that have at least a small chance. Smash hasn’t really gone all in on third parties until Smash 4 so there’s still a ton of untapped potential there.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Well. I think Super Smash Bros. is quite overdoing the third party characters stuff, but NGL I'd prefer a third party character anytime over another FE swordy.
What I love most of Super Smash Bros. tough is how it took very secondary characters, or barely characters, and turned them into iconic fighters, like Captain Falcon. He hadn't even a 3D model prior Super Smash Bros.
Every new episode there's some unpredictable character, like Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Wii Fit Trainer, Piranha Plant...
Can't wait to see the surprise character of the next Smash.
Any idea of who or what that could be?

 

[fogbadge]

Well. I think Super Smash Bros. is quite overdoing the third party characters stuff, but NGL I'd prefer a third party character anytime over another FE swordy.
What I love most of Super Smash Bros. tough is how it took very secondary characters, or barely characters, and turned them into iconic fighters, like Captain Falcon. He hadn't even a 3D model prior Super Smash Bros.
Every new episode there's some unpredictable character, like Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Wii Fit Trainer, Piranha Plant...
Can't wait to see the surprise character of the next Smash.
Any idea of who or what that could be?

I think there’s an inherent flaw with surprise characters. Seeing as we all now know that they are a thing we’re going to be expecting one. So we’re either getting someone who we all guessed could be a surprise character or sakurai really goes out of his way to surprise us and the next fighter is a super mushroom

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I'd love more Nintendo characters but it depends on which ones. I doubt that the likes of Starfy, Porky or Kururin have particularly high chances.
Even Dixie and the Skull Kid I'm pretty sure won't happen.
So... I don't care all that much about the most likely Nintendo characters. Yeah.

3rd parties on the other hand have always managed to feel fresh still. There's 3-4 that are in my wishlist but aside from those I'm open to surprises.

 

[Oracle Link]

I like the idea of the Bubble dragons being in Smash, but here is how I visualize all the eight skins:View attachment 394165
In Bubble Bobble Symphony they can turn back human (as side quest) and keep making bubbles through a straw.

Bub and bob triyng to become humans again:

 

[Louie G.]

So we’re either getting someone who we all guessed could be a surprise character or sakurai really goes out of his way to surprise us and the next fighter is a super mushroom

Yeah, I mean this is pretty much what happened with Piranha Plant already. Many of us routinely predicted a “wtf” character with each new game and usually this was regulated to some celebration of Nintendo hardware. So getting a Mario enemy was well outside expectation, and presumably the next one just goes in a totally different direction.

Although truth be told, we already have a surprise character people predicted. Duck Hunt (Dog) was on the radar for a new “retro” character for a good while at that point, but it was still executed in a pretty unpredictable way.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, I mean this is pretty much what happened with Piranha Plant already. Many of us routinely predicted a “wtf” character with each new game and usually this was regulated to some celebration of Nintendo hardware. So getting a Mario enemy was well outside expectation, and presumably the next one just goes in a totally different direction.

Although truth be told, we already have a surprise character people predicted. Duck Hunt (Dog) was on the radar for a new “retro” character for a good while at that point, but it was still executed in a pretty unpredictable way.

Wasn't it just that one guy though? I remember people being extremely pessimistic on Duck Hunt before the leaks.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Do you guys think that, with time, another Zelda character could rival the non-Triforce Trio of Skull Kid, Impa and Midna in terms of demand?

Those three are on another level.

Probably not. I expect Impa to gain popularity over time in fact. Remakes of Twilight Princess such as rumored will boost Midna yet again. Anything with Impa, which is highly likely, will boost her popularity even further.

But as said before, Midna and Skull Kid have a huge following cause their respective games do. But these games are also quite centralised around Skull Kid and Midna. So logical.

Again I find this very telling for Impa. Cause she doesn't have this. Skyward Sword isn't nearly as popular as Majora or Twilight.

 

[Louie G.]

Wasn't it just that one guy though? I remember people being extremely pessimistic on Duck Hunt before the leaks.

It was more than one guy who supported the Dog (“Mr. Peepers” is how some referred to him), although one or two people who were especially adamant about it. Smash 4 had a support thread with a fairly substantial list of names.

He was never the frontrunner, but often lumped in with the fringe retro pulls (AKA anyone who wasn’t Takamaru, at that point in speculation). I’m not trying to say they were heavily expected, just not as totally out of left field as his contemporaries. I mean, Duck Hunt was one of the biggest games on NES and the Dog one of the console’s most persisting icons so it makes sense.

It was frequently a joke among fans that adding Duck Hunt Dog would be great because you could finally punch the guy for taunting you all these years. So it was definitely a visible request.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It was more than one guy who supported the Dog, although one or two people who were especially adamant about it. Smash 4 had a support thread with a fairly substantial list of names.

He was never the frontrunner, but often lumped in with the fringe retro pulls (AKA anyone who wasn’t Takamaru, at that point in speculation). I’m not trying to say they were heavily expected, just not as totally out of left field as his contemporaries. I mean, Duck Hunt was one of the biggest games on NES and the Dog one of the console’s most persisting icons so it makes sense.

Duck Hunt and Mario Bros where probably the biggest games. It was a seriously overlooked contender. I'm from 1990 and even I remember Duck Hunt being big. Let alone literally any body within the range of 5 to 10 years older than me. Literally a retro pick for the oldies.

Duck Hunt makes way more sense to be there than Ice Climbers in my opinion. The more I think about it, the more weird I find their inclusion in Melee of all games.

 

[Perkilator]

That makes me wonder, do you all think Smash can go back to a mostly first party newcomers selection?

Probably so, at least for the base game. Speaking of which:

I think that's why base game third-parties are so nebulous; What makes them "better" for the base game instead of the DLC? Is there really anything that makes a fighter better for DLC? Who knows

• What I think would be better for the base game:
  • Crash Bandicoot
  • Monster Hunter
  • Chun-Li
  • Shadow
  • Nakoruru
  • Rayman
• What I think would be better for DLC:
  • Estelle Bright
  • 2B
  • Aigis

 

[ninjahmos]

I kinda think they should have added either Duck Hunt or Takamaru instead of the Ice Climbers for Melee.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It's worth noting that Duck Hunt Dog was pretty hated before his reveal. Immensely so.

His fandom liked to portray him as this devious troll, the kind of guy who hates the player and loves to laugh at every mistake. Fan designs made him grotesque. They often focused on that smiling laugh to the point of absurdity. Fan movesets usually had him hitting people with ducks and generally abusing them. He wasn't popular because that was the fandom's general reception of the character. An ugly jerk who laughs at you in particular. The overall gaming scene didn't like the dog either, with him often topping most hated gaming character lists (along with Tingle and Navi). The gaming scene was cringe in the 2000s and they outgrew their hate of Navi and Tingle, but not the dog.

But when Duck Hunt was revealed, things changed. He was... cute, like a Disney character. He was best friends with a duck. He only laughed and had that smile for a taunt and a victory screen. His moveset was very inspired. He was more dog like and less troll like. He walked on all fours and barked. And if you still didn't like him, the moveset let people take out their grievances by letting them scare the dog. Sakurai effectively reinvented the character for a lot of people.

I don't think there's ever been a bigger 180 of opinion in the Smash scene.

 

[osby]

Duck Hunt makes way more sense to be there than Ice Climbers in my opinion. The more I think about it, the more weird I find their inclusion in Melee of all games.

Melee had a lot of gimmick characters in general.

could transform, had a 2D visual gimmick, had movesets consisting entirely of sweet/sour spots, had the self-damage mechanic, could float... 's 2-in-1 deal fits right into the others and we know it was a determining factor.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What I love most of Super Smash Bros. tough is how it took very secondary characters, or barely characters, and turned them into iconic fighters, like Captain Falcon. He hadn't even a 3D model prior Super Smash Bros.
Every new episode there's some unpredictable character, like Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Wii Fit Trainer, Piranha Plant...

I wouldn't lump Falcon and Fit Trainer in with the likes of G&W or ROB. At the time of their addition to Smash, their franchises were actually still alive and popular.

 

[ninjahmos]

RE: First Party Newcomers

I would like them to have a good balance between first party and third party newcomers, but I do feel like they might lean a little more towards first party for the next game.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Bub and bob triyng to become humans again:

Rainbow Islands is right there bro.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That makes me wonder, do you all think Smash can go back to a mostly first party newcomers selection?

We may have passed the point of no return in regards to hype.

Outside of Sephiroth and Sora I don't think there where many characters who got as much hype as K.Rool and Ridley.

It's quite possible. But they gotta be high fan demanded characters.

Or you know, just revamp characters on the roster who are already insanely popular? And present them as if they're newcomers.

Mario, Pikachu, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Samus, Link all with newer flashier move sets true to their home series. I have no idea what could be more hype honestly.

Now add some other fan favorites as Wario, Diddy, Mewtwo, Charizard, Lucario, Ike, all hugely updated and true to their home series and deliberately made flashier and more appealing. And build up from that onwards.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Duck Hunt makes way more sense to be there than Ice Climbers in my opinion. The more I think about it, the more weird I find their inclusion in Melee of all games.

What's so weird about their inclusion? Because they make just as much sense as Duck Hunt to me.

I kinda think they should have added either Duck Hunt or Takamaru instead of the Ice Climbers for Melee.

Takamaru at that point? I'm not sure about that. Unlike Ice Climbers, his game was still only in Japan.

 

[ninjahmos]

Takamaru at that point? I'm not sure about that. Unlike Ice Climbers, his game was still only in Japan.

So was Fire Emblem, but Marth got into Melee, and they even included Roy before his game was even released.

 

[Gorgonzales]

It's worth noting that Duck Hunt Dog was pretty hated before his reveal. Immensely so.

His fandom liked to portray him as this devious troll, the kind of guy who hates the player and loves to laugh at every mistake. Fan designs made him grotesque. They often focused on that smiling laugh to the point of absurdity. Fan movesets usually had him hitting people with ducks and generally abusing them. He wasn't popular because that was the fandom's general reception of the character. An ugly jerk who laughs at you in particular. The overall gaming scene didn't like the dog either, with him often topping most hated gaming character lists (along with Tingle and Navi). The gaming scene was cringe in the 2000s and they outgrew their hate of Navi and Tingle, but not the dog.

But when Duck Hunt was revealed, things changed. He was... cute, like a Disney character. He was best friends with a duck. He only laughed and had that smile for a taunt and a victory screen. His moveset was very inspired. He was more dog like and less troll like. He walked on all fours and barked. And if you still didn't like him, the moveset let people take out their grievances by letting them scare the dog. Sakurai effectively reinvented the character for a lot of people.

If anything I wished they leaned into the troll angle more. Yeah, they're like Disney characters, but the Duck Hunt Dog is the last character you should turn into a Disney character. It goes against what he was known for in the first place. Duck Hunt should be somewhat ugly, they should be a character that you should actively hate fighting against. And yeah, they're kinda annoying now, but it's more of the "oughh this character has such an annoying moveset" type of annoying instead of the dog him acting like a prick to you throughout the whole match in addition to his annoying yet versatile zoning kit. The opponent should hate seeing his ugly mug and the dog should take joy in making the opponent's life miserable.

Something always felt "missing" to me about Duck Hunt in Smash, aside from the painfully absent laugh sound effect. None of their Smash 4 or Ultimate renders really scream "the dog from duck hunt" to me because they sanitized him to the point where he just kind of looks like a regular dog. Or dare I say, a discount Banjo-Kazooie NPC. He should be baring his teeth in the renders or at least have those closed pupils or something.

I'm glad Duck Hunt Dog is here, I just think the Smash team could've gone a bit further with his portrayal. For a character whose whole identity is predicated on being an active jerk to the player, they didn't lean into that angle nearly as much as I would've liked.

 

[Wonder Smash]

So was Fire Emblem, but Marth got into Melee, and they even included Roy before his game was even released.

Sure but Fire Emblem was and still is an ongoing series. Takamaru only just had one game and that came out way back on the NES/Famicom. Plus, they weren't that confident in adding Japan-only characters in Smash. I think Takamaru would have been too risky.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

So was Fire Emblem, but Marth got into Melee, and they even included Roy before his game was even released.

And from that on the series has become trojan horse for Fire Emblem.

 

[Wonder Smash]

If anything I wished they leaned into the troll angle more. Yeah, they're like Disney characters, but the Duck Hunt Dog is the last character you should turn into a Disney character. It goes against what he was known for in the first place. Duck Hunt should be somewhat ugly, they should be a character that you should actively hate fighting against. And yeah, they're kinda annoying now, but it's more of the "oughh this character has such an annoying moveset" type of annoying instead of the dog him acting like a prick to you throughout the whole match in addition to his annoying yet versatile zoning kit. The opponent should hate seeing his ugly mug and the dog should take joy in making the opponent's life miserable.

View attachment 394184

Something always felt "missing" to me about Duck Hunt in Smash, aside from the painfully absent laugh sound effect. None of their Smash 4 or Ultimate renders really scream "the dog from duck hunt" to me because they sanitized him to the point where he just kind of looks like a regular dog. Or dare I say, a discount Banjo-Kazooie NPC. He should be baring his teeth in the renders or at least have those closed pupils or something.

I'm glad Duck Hunt Dog is here, I just think the Smash team could've gone a bit further with his portrayal. For a character whose whole identity is predicated on being an active jerk to the player, they didn't lean into that angle nearly as much as I would've liked.

I'm not entirely sure about this. I think this would only work if Duck Hunt was just an enemy. But the dog is not actually your enemy in Duck Hunt. In fact, he's actually your companion. He finds the ducks for you, and picks them up after you shot them. He only laughs if you miss all of your shots. So even if people did find that annoying about him, that's just based what he does after they mess up. I don't think the intention was to make him an annoying character, as if that's the way he acts all the time.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

I think there’s an inherent flaw with surprise characters. Seeing as we all now know that they are a thing we’re going to be expecting one. So we’re either getting someone who we all guessed could be a surprise character or sakurai really goes out of his way to surprise us and the next fighter is a super mushroom

Good point!
Every time he managed to catch us unprepared, but this time he will have to think very very outside the box to perform that.
First guess: Movie Yoshi

It makes sense because it could work and his design would not collide too much with the design with of all the other characters.
It's improbable because last surprise character was already a Mario character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And from that on the series has become trojan horse for Fire Emblem.

Eh, Smash probably helped, but the gateway was probably Awakening rather than Smash specifically. The series was very niche until then, even with Ike coming in Brawl.

I'm not entirely sure about this. I think this would only work if Duck Hunt was just an enemy. But the dog is not actually your enemy in Duck Hunt. In fact, he's actually your companion. He finds the ducks for you, and picks them up after you shot them. He only laughs if you miss. So even if people did find that annoying about him, that's just based what he does after they mess up. I don't think the intention was to make him an annoying character, as if that's the way he acts all the time.

Also, if you're making a playable character, it kinda needs to have appeal and the intentionally ugly 1-1 sprite recreation models just repulse people. I think I agree with it being a poor conveyance of their character as well. They're a dependable ally that has a little fun at your expense when you fail entirely, and if you get even one duck, he does his job and even celebrates the kill with you. The other depiction gives off the idea that he's an absolute gremlin with more than just a little bit of a mean streak, and a tendency to abuse animals.

That's probably why the idea is so repulsive, it's like the Nintendog idea except now you're playing as an animal abuser and your power is animal abuse. Yeah they're both cartoony animals, but there's a reason why slapstick butt monkeys generally have the slapstick happen to them as comeuppance, or they have some sort of dynamic with another character that removes the abuse angle from the equation (Ex. they're just unlucky or klutzy).

 

[Stratos]

I don't know how you feel about what I'm writing, but I feel that it doesn't matter if each video game character was released only in Japan or in other countries, I believe that the characters that are destined to be in a Super Smash Bros. game can and do are found in every video game version of the Super Smash Bros. series as playable characters. I admit that back when I had Super Smash Bros. Melee, that's when I found out about the Fire Emblem series and I didn't know that this series was only released in Japan back then and I also didn't have the internet to search for more. If I read correctly about Super Smash Bros. Melee, Marth would only be put in Super Smash Bros. Melee released in Japan, while Super Smash Bros. Melee released in other countries would not have Marth, but they put him in Super Smash Bros. Melee in any version and thanks to the internet we can learn about any character coming to the Super Smash Bros series that we don't know, even if the video game it comes from was only released in Japan. I'm writing this because some people assume that since the video game series each newcomer comes from was only released in Japan, that it will only be released in the Japanese version of the Super Smash Bros. game.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I'm glad Duck Hunt Dog is here, I just think the Smash team could've gone a bit further with his portrayal. For a character whose whole identity is predicated on being an active jerk to the player, they didn't lean into that angle nearly as much as I would've liked.

That's your own personal interpretation on the matter, probably formed from the popular characterization fans have given it since 1985.

The only thing the dog ever does that's "being a jerk" is laughing when you fail to shoot a duck. That's it. Oh, and getting mad at you for shooting it in the Vs. release, but then again who WOULDN'T get angry if they got shot?

Otherwise it celebrates when you shoot even one of them (rather than mock you for letting one get away) and starts out by helping you by scaring the ducks out of the grass for you to shoot.

How the dog is represented in Smash is how the dog ACTUALLY IS. And the only reason that it feels "off" is because people spent so long villifying it for the crime of....playfully laughing at you for missing your shots.

 

[Louie G.]

How the dog is represented in Smash is how the dog ACTUALLY IS.

Yeah, I think this is most evident in his fighter spirit, art from the original game.

He’s just a happy little guy here, a loyal dog. I quite like the jerky persona myself, it’s fun, but Smash handled him accurately to original intent over fanon.

Although I do wish they kept the original sound byte for at least one of his taunts or something. Muttley laugh is cool too so I don’t mind that much, but it’s such an iconic sound to exclude altogether.

 

[fogbadge]

That's your own personal interpretation on the matter, probably formed from the popular characterization fans have given it since 1985.

The only thing the dog ever does that's "being a jerk" is laughing when you fail to shoot a duck. That's it. Oh, and getting mad at you for shooting it in the Vs. release, but then again who WOULDN'T get angry if they got shot?

Otherwise it celebrates when you shoot even one of them (rather than mock you for letting one get away) and starts out by helping you by scaring the ducks out of the grass for you to shoot.

How the dog is represented in Smash is how the dog ACTUALLY IS. And the only reason that it feels "off" is because people spent so long villifying it for the crime of....playfully laughing at you for missing your shots.

I’m with you. I love the way the dog is in smash and I hate the perpetual grin the fans gave him

 

[Hypercat-Z]

How the dog is represented in Smash is how the dog ACTUALLY IS. And the only reason that it feels "off" is because people spent so long villifying it for the crime of....playfully laughing at you for missing your shots.

Plus, not many people realized the duck hunt dog was heavily inspired by...

 

[Louie G.]

I just remembered though, I do like that they have Duck Hunt get up to some mischief in the Banjo trailer. He still gets a kick out of a good prank, he’s just not wringing ducks by their necks lol.

Maybe a little difficult to convey that in normal gameplay but they have him do the laugh in his entrance, taunt AND victory pose so clearly it’s considered an important aspect of the character anyway.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Plus, not many people realized the duck hunt dog was heavily inspired by...
View attachment 394191

This is why if Waluigi actually does make it in, his trailer needs him and Duck Hunt to interact.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I just remembered though, I do like that they have Duck Hunt get up to some mischief in the Banjo trailer. He still gets a kick out of a good prank, he’s just not wringing ducks by their necks lol.

Maybe a little difficult to convey that in normal gameplay but they have him do the laugh in his entrance, taunt AND victory pose so clearly it’s considered an important aspect of the character anyway.

Let's not forget, even in his Final Smash.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

This is why if Waluigi actually does make it in, his trailer needs him and Duck Hunt to interact.

I see what you mean!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yeah they're both cartoony animals, but there's a reason why slapstick butt monkeys generally have the slapstick happen to them as comeuppance, or they have some sort of dynamic with another character that removes the abuse angle from the equation (Ex. they're just unlucky or klutzy).

Little side tangent here, I think that's why Banjo and Kazooie work so well as partners, because Kazooie is an unabashed *** to most characters you meet, but it's balanced out by her being the one taking the brunt of some of the moves in the game, like getting slammed into the ground by Beak Buster or Breegull Bash or getting pulled out to be used as a gun for Breegull Blaster.

It's also why I don't think Yooka and Laylee work as well as a team dynamic, but that's a side tangent on a side tangent lol

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Little side tangent here, I think that's why Banjo and Kazooie work so well as partners, because Kazooie is an unabashed *** to most characters you meet, but it's balanced out by her being the one taking the brunt of some of the moves in the game, like getting slammed into the ground by Beak Buster or Breegull Bash or getting pulled out to be used as a gun for Breegull Blaster.

It's also why I don't think Yooka and Laylee work as well as a team dynamic, but that's a side tangent on a side tangent lol

Kazooie apparently also likes being used as a weapon, so there's clear consent.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Kazooie apparently also likes being used as a weapon, so there's clear consent.

And Banjo and Kazooie tease at each other in their idle animations (Kazooie pecking Banjo's head and occassionally Banjo flips the script by yanking Kazooie by the neck), so it's basically just back and forth slapstick and teasing between two friends who feel like they could realistically be friends despite being so different. Kazooie has the same sort of relationship with Bottles too, where they just ****-talk each other constantly lol