Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Diddy Kong]

Whatever the circumstances that led to Funky Kong placing so highly, the indisputable conclusion is that people just plain like the guy.

The general goal and format of the poll makes it difficult to say confidently that Funky Kong is straight up one of the most highly requested characters. But what I think we are able to say is he would be one of the least controversial additions. It’s hard not to love him.

I wonder how this would flip if Funky Kong was slated to make it in over Dixie Kong though? Even if some people are chill with him on paper, I think it might not sit well with some older fans if Dixie was snubbed again in his favor. But that’s just my speculation, I’d like to know what others think.

Personally I kinda just want Funky and/or Cranky more than Dixie Kong at this point anyway.

I doubt that Funky is gonna take priority over Dixie. We can probably get them both. If they're lower effort inclusions as semi clones or Dixie as semi clone and Funky as Echo especially. Unique Dixie and Echo Funky is what I can reasonably defend too. And that's my personal choice.

However this very reason is why I suspect Cranky is overlooked. He's the OG Arcade DK, and has appeared in the Mario Movie, basically all Donkey Kong games, and wouldn't have the "problem" of being any sort of clone character.

Not that I think Dixie is in too deep of a trouble of being clonish. People seem to forget that she was intended as a duo with Diddy. A switching mechanic. Why switch between characters if the one plays similar to the other? That was saved for Pyra and Mythra anyway and even they're semi clones at best of each other.

Not to forget: the only switching characters at that given time where Zelda and Sheik, hugely different characters, and Brawl added the Pokemon Trainer. Diddy and Dixie would take example after them. Therefore Dixie would be a unique fighter if we see what Sakurai wanted and using pure logic.

I honestly think we can see Dixie and Funky both. Easily. Their popularity suggests it's a strong possibility. And I suspect a grand revival of the DKC brand anyway.

 

[Louie G.]

What if Dixie and Diddy become one shifting character like in the original plans?

I don’t really see them changing Diddy Kong that drastically after four games. I like the Diddy and Dixie concept but the time for that is well past by now.

I think if they want to re-explore the idea they’d sooner just use another duo of characters rather than retroactively overhaul an established one. Unless a lot of characters are getting major overhauls, I suppose.

Dixie should be a semi-clone with a different up special.

I think Dixie Kong should reasonably be a Wolf type semiclone or perhaps something like Isabelle with some shared DNA but some brand new specials, and mostly new animations.

In essence I think she would be a character that demands a fair bit more effort than a basic clone, her ponytail animations would be especially significant, but it also makes a lot of sense for these two to share properties. Luigi, the Star Fox characters, Isabelle, Toon Link, Lucas and so forth are deliberately designed to be similar to their counterparts in key ways. Diddy and Dixie’s visual similarity and close relation pretty much assures this off precedent, and as a side note I feel the same about why Octoling would not be fully unique.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

I don’t really see them changing Diddy Kong that drastically after four games. I like the Diddy and Dixie concept but the time for that is well past by now.

I think if they want to re-explore the idea they’d sooner just use another duo of characters rather than retroactively overhaul an established one.

Like Dixie and Kiddy?

Speaking of shifting characters, what about Tiny Kong with the ability of changing from her teenage self to her toddler form?

 

[Louie G.]

Like Dixie and Kiddy?

Honestly I’d say probably not, because Kiddy Kong isn’t a popular character individually and I think it’d feel odd to implement what’s effectively just a prop for Dixie Kong. At that point you’re just adding them for Dixie, and you need not even bother with the team-up IMO.

The swap-the-leader mechanic doesn’t need to be Donkey Kong related. My pitch is a Splatoon idol duo but Noah / Mio are discussed in this context sometimes, and I’m sure there are several other prospects I’m not thinking of.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I die a little inside every time someone suggests Funky should be a DK Echo.

This **** is what you're asking for. Stop. This does not look natural whatsoever. And if you think it does, you desperately need to see an optometrist.

Funky does not stand hunched and walk on his knuckles like a Silverback like DK does. He stands upright and walks like Bigfoot; like a human. And he can't do that in Smash with DK's proportions because an upright DK is too tall to work. So Funky would have shorter legs like in Tropical Freeze meaning he'd be an at most. Similar enough to DK to where he can borrow some attacks but adds in plenty of his own attacks and attributes that DK doesn't have. The versatile surfboard should be his bread and butter just like it is in his playable role, not just a "side dish" just to give him one different attack or two.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Hot take: I like Funky but I couldn't care less for him in Smash, at least compared to Dixie.
He'd be fun as an echo but he doesn't really have enough going on to fill an original moveset on his own.

I don't want to sound elitist (but I probably will), but I have a feeling that Funky's support base stems more from Mario Kart fans, while actual DKC fans would usually prioritize Dixie.

 

[Opossum]

Honestly I'm glad Funky is getting discussed more. To be frank I think Dixie is kind of...boring as hell lmao. Funky appeals to me significantly more.

Given I vastly prefer DK over Diddy too, I guess for me it's just that Big Monke > Little Monke.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Funky ever gets in, I wouldn't really want him to be an Echo of DK, but I think they should at least give him Smash remixes of Funky's Fugue and Funky the Main Monkey.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

He'd be fun as an echo but he doesn't really have enough going on to fill an original moveset on his own.

You're entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is.

We've had this discussion before; it's not that he doesn't; it's that you refuse to accept that he does because he doesn't appeal to you.

I mean hell, a mod has been posted of a moveset that only marginally borrows from DK AND a full visual moveset has been posted in the past.
It's clearly possible to make Funky "wholly unique". It isn't likely since there's the Isabelle/Luigi route, but to say Funky "doesn't have enough" is blatantly ignoring everything that shows otherwise.

 

[Louie G.]

I do consider it maybe a tad hypocritical how much insistence is done on the sentiment that Dixie Kong cannot be an echo fighter but such dismissal of Funky Kong’s unique potential in his own right, and particularly his visual distinction that would make a copy paste moveset difficult.

I don’t think either character should be an echo fighter, and I don’t think they would be tbh. But comparing the two, Dixie Kong is technically closer to Diddy Kong than Funky is to DK. Most of Diddy Kong’s animations lend themselves to Dixie well enough, whereas like Golden said you pretty much have to overhaul DK’s animations entirely and shrink him down to make Funky Kong functional, and at that point it’s more semiclone territory after the necessary adjustments are in place.

In fairness to Dixie Kong I believe if Sakurai saw her as echo fighter material she would have been in Ultimate. So this isn’t me saying she’s gotta be a echo or bust, like I said before I feel like Isabelle or Wolf is the window we’d be looking at, I just think we ought to be consistent with the way we judge these two because I don’t really like the double standard.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This **** is what you're asking for. Stop. This does not look natural whatsoever. And if you think it does, you desperately need to see an optometrist.

Funky does not stand hunched and walk on his knuckles like a Silverback like DK does. He stands upright and walks like Bigfoot; like a human. And he can't do that in Smash with DK's proportions because an upright DK is too tall to work. So Funky would have shorter legs like in Tropical Freeze meaning he'd be an at most. Similar enough to DK to where he can borrow some attacks but adds in plenty of his own attacks and attributes the DK doesn't have. The versatile surfboard should be his bread and butter just like it is in his playable role, not just a "side dish" just to give him one different attack or two.

1. Aside from the weird facial expression (and the fact that it's obviously not an official SSBU model), it looks fine.
   • My eyes were checked fairly recently, they're 20/20.
2. As an Echo Fighter, Funky Kong would receive the necessary animation changes needed to properly convey his character.
3. Funky Kong actually does walk with his hands in Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze.

You are right that he does stand like a human though. I don't know how they'd want to handle that, but given that they made the entire cast more animalistic, it probably wouldn't be too out of place if they decided him having a taller hibox while standing was too much of a problem.

Echo Fghters are more than just model swaps, and while just about every Echo Fighter will be a case of missed potential, if a character like Funky Kong doesn't work as one, then Echo Fighters as a concept don't work.

 

[Guynamednelson]

As an Echo Fighter, Funky Kong would receive the necessary animation changes needed to properly convey his character.

But not to the point where even the most casual Smash fans can notice hitbox differences. may all have animation changes, but they're ultimately still trying to go through the same motions as outside of taunts and victory animations.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I do consider it maybe a tad hypocritical how much insistence is done on the sentiment that Dixie Kong cannot be an echo fighter but such dismissal of Funky Kong’s unique potential in his own right, and particularly his visual distinction that would make a copy paste moveset difficult.

That's probably the biggest thing that irritates me about all this.
It's pointed out dozens of times how Funky has his surfboard as a major tool for his potential moveset with the variety of ways it can function, and it's shut down as not even worth considering....."but Dixie has a ponytail, guys! She can do so many things with it that makes her so unique and special and not even possible to be like Diddy in any conceivable way!"

I'm sick of the double standards and hypocrisy.

 

[Gengar84]

For me, it comes more from a combination of my personal preference toward Dixie Kong and her importance in the series why I’d rather see her as unique compared to Funky. Funky Kong has always been more of a side character in the series that’s never had a playable role until the DLC of Tropical Freeze. Both characters could easily have enough to work with to fill out a unique moveset but it seems odd to me to go with the side character over the third playable character in the series.

I guess it’s like comparing Toad to Waluigi in a sense. If Toad wasn’t already a part of Peach’s moveset, it wouldn’t feel right to me if they went with Waluigi over him for Smash. In the end, I think it’s mostly a personal preference thing because there are other examples where I’d prefer the more minor character.

 

[ninjahmos]

Ignore this post

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

For the record, I do think Funky could make for a really cool DK adjacent unique fighter. I just highly doubt we'd even get a clone, and I'd be more satisfied with him as an Echo Fighter than completely absent.

On the subject of doing more with him, I do like the idea of him being the Captain Falcon to...DK's Gannon? I never remember how that saying works. Give him DK's moveset, but a flashy rushdown playstyle and showboaty animations.

 

[Gengar84]

I apologize if I started all this because I assumed that Funky would be an echo. I didn’t mean to imply that he couldn’t work as a unique character or had no moveset potential. Sakurai has shown that he can make pretty much anything work if he wants to. Just that I’d rather see a unique Dixie than a unique Funky. Let’s just agree that both Dixie and Funky have unique potential.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

For the record, I do think Funky could make for a really cool DK adjacent unique fighter. I just highly doubt we'd even get a clone, and I'd be more satisfied with him as an Echo Fighter than completely absent.

On the subject of doing more with him, I do like the idea of him being the Captain Falcon to...DK's Gannon? I never remember how that saying works. Give him DK's moveset, but a flashy rushdown playstyle and showboaty animations.

As opposed to DK’s zoning playstyle and uninterested animations?

Anyway, I’m more of a Cranky guy myself, but I can’t see Funky as an Echo because DK’s moveset goes so far into the “fighting gorilla” archetype that cool dude surfer Funky Kong just doesn’t match. As a Daisy fan I’m also pretty miffed with the insistence that Dixie couldn’t possibly be an echo, though I can also see Dixie’s potential for more acrobatic moves. Though her fan movesets do have trouble trying to think of specials that don’t have to reach for an idle animation guitar or the general DK kitchen sink like the Animal Buddies

 

[Gengar84]

As opposed to DK’s zoning playstyle and uninterested animations?

Anyway, I’m more of a Cranky guy myself, but I can’t see Funky as an Echo because DK’s moveset goes so far into the “fighting gorilla” archetype that cool dude surfer Funky Kong just doesn’t match. As a Daisy fan I’m also pretty miffed with the insistence that Dixie couldn’t possibly be an echo, though I can also see Dixie’s potential for more acrobatic moves. Though her fan movesets do have trouble trying to think of specials that don’t have to reach for an idle animation guitar or the general DK kitchen sink like the Animal Buddies

The guitar was a victory pose, not an idle animation. It’s fair that you don’t care for that idea but I really like it. I know the buddies aren’t a Dixie exclusive thing but it is a major part of the series that is currently unrepresented and Dixie is a part of that. Plus, my moveset only used the buddies for four total moves in her set. Everything else was her own abilities. I can respect that everyone has their own opinions on what they’d like to see but that’s my stance. If you prefer something else, that’s cool too.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

1. Aside from the weird facial expression (and the fact that it's obviously not an official SSBU model), it looks fine.
   • My eyes were checked fairly recently, they're 20/20.

Fire your optometrist then.

As an Echo Fighter, Funky Kong would receive the necessary animation changes needed to properly convey his character.

Which he cannot do with DK's existing model. Funky CANNOT BE UPRIGHT UNLESS HIS LEGS ARE SHORTER.

Funky Kong actually does walk with his hands in Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze.

To run. In literally every other appearance he's had, he doesn't do this. So because he could run by using his arms to propel himself forward a grand total of one game, it makes sense for him to completely copy DK's posture and movements exactly?

You are right that he does stand like a human though. I don't know how they'd want to handle that, but given that they made the entire cast more animalistic, it probably wouldn't be too out of place if they decided him having a taller hibox while standing was too much of a problem.

They're more "animalistic" because they're reflective of their old Rare days. Even back then Funky was not "animalistic". He was still walking upright and humanlike.

This wasn't a trait invented by the modern DK era.

Echo Fghters are more than just model swaps, and while just about every Echo Fighter will be a case of missed potential, if a character like Funky Kong doesn't work as one, then Echo Fighters as a concept don't work.

This is a nothingburger of a statement.
I could turn this around to say "if Dixie Kong doesn't work as one, then Echo Fighters as a concept don't work" and it'd be just as valid.

But then you'd probably raise issue with that because it's Dixie.

 

[Louie G.]

In the end, I think it’s mostly a personal preference thing because there are other examples where I’d prefer the more minor character.

The preference is fine, I feel like Dixie Kong is technically “next” in line too. She is the last remaining SNES protagonist of the bunch, and is still prominent in the series marketing. I just think it comes off a bit dismissive of some fans to disregard Funky Kong’s unique potential after swearing up and down that a Dixie Kong clone of Diddy would be a disservice. Not directed toward you in particular but that consistent sentiment makes it harder to take that defense for Dixie Kong seriously if it isn't extended toward a very similar case within her own series.

As a separate thought about Funky Kong, I think the most compelling point in his favor is that he is perhaps the only DKC character that has seen an increase in "stock" over the Switch era. The Funky Mode promotion for the Tropical Freeze port and most recently the return to MK8D alongside Diddy Kong are positive boosts in his direction that further frame him as a genuinely significant character to the brand. Dare I say to the wider audience outside of the hardcore base of DKC / Smash fans I believe Funky Kong is probably the third most popular character in the series.

With that said, I believe DKC will probably just stick with the three characters it has next game. But I feel like Dixie Kong, Funky Kong and even Cranky Kong have fairly equal cases to make for themselves. At least looking at it specifically from today's perspective.

 

[Gengar84]

On the flip side, why does everyone seem to be insisting that Dixie Kong has to be an echo? They had very different attacks in DKC2 where they were both playable. Dixie was also slower but had better aerial mobility. I don’t think they shared a single attack in those games. Admittedly, there were very few attacks in general but they were pretty distinct animation wise.

I take as hard a stance as I do defending her unique potentially partially because virtually everyone I see bring her up automatically assumes that she’d be an echo and dismissing any unique potential she has. I acknowledge that Funky can be unique if they wanted to but I feel like Dixie is often dismissed as having her own potential. Not trying to dismiss Funky fans and I’ve tried to be fair here.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As opposed to DK’s zoning playstyle and uninterested animations?

Eh? DK may have range but he's still primarily a heavy. As for his animations, they aren't showboaty so much as they're just...ape.

As a Daisy fan I’m also pretty miffed with the insistence that Dixie couldn’t possibly be an echo, though I can also see Dixie’s potential for more acrobatic moves.

Honestly I think the ponytail is only a problem because it would require extra rigging, even if you didn't do anything with it, which Isabelle seems to prove is a no-go. Then again it also doesn't throw her proportions off and would just be a thing they'd have to animate on top of what exists already, so maybe?

 

[Louie G.]

On the flip side, why does everyone seem to be insisting that Dixie Kong has to be an echo?

Maybe this is the problem here, because I hardly ever see people say this (I've seen nobody say it today) but many approach the conversation as if it's a commonly held sentiment. Personally as I've addressed a couple times I think Dixie Kong is more in the ballpark of semiclones like Isabelle or Wolf. It's not as black or white as totally original or straight up 1:1 clone. But in this conversation, we are using Dixie Kong's similarities to Diddy Kong as a way to explain why it's a bit hypocritical to simultaneously be judgmental of Funky Kong. Many of the same arguments can be applied toward both.

I feel like Sakurai wouldn't add Dixie Kong if he couldn't implement her hair in a meaningful way / the ponytail would require a good amount of extra rigging and animation. Similarly I don't think it would be worth adding Funky Kong if he's not using his surfboard / his upright stance will drastically effect his hitbox. These are definitive traits, so I don't believe either of them have any business being echo fighters.

But is the negative response just toward the idea that Dixie Kong be derivative at all? Because with respect, I think it's unrealistic to believe she wouldn't share a number of baseline traits with him that would sooner align her with the likes of Luigi or Falco.

 

[Gengar84]

Maybe this is the problem here, because I hardly ever see people say this (I've seen nobody say it today) but many approach the conversation as if it's a commonly held sentiment. Personally as I've addressed a couple times I think Dixie Kong is more in the ballpark of semiclones like Isabelle or Wolf. It's not as black or white as totally original or straight up 1:1 clone. But in this conversation, we are using Dixie Kong's similarities to Diddy Kong as a way to explain why it's a bit hypocritical to simultaneously be judgmental of Funky Kong. Many of the same arguments can be applied toward both.

I feel like Sakurai wouldn't add Dixie Kong if he couldn't implement her hair in a meaningful way / the ponytail would require a good amount of extra rigging and animation. Similarly I don't think it would be worth adding Funky Kong if he's not using his surfboard / his upright stance will drastically effect his hitbox. These are definitive traits, so I don't believe either of them have any business being echo fighters.

I think it’s more YouTube Smash roster videos than anyone here but I’ve definitely seen it here too. I haven’t seen a whole lot of ideas for how she could be unique and she’s almost always brought up as an echo for Diddy in the same way Impa is brought up as an echo or replacement for Sheik. Thats not to say she can’t be an echo, just that I’d like to see her talked about a bit more as unique. I realize my concept isn’t for everyone but I’d like to see some other ideas too.

I just wanted to clarify: I’m not trying to claim that Dixie can’t be an echo or that Funky can only be an echo. I think both could work in either direction. My preference is just for a unique Dixie.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Which he cannot do with DK's existing model. Funky CANNOT BE UPRIGHT UNLESS HIS LEGS ARE SHORTER.

That's not inherently true. Unless there's a weird set of restraints on his skeleton, they should be able to pose him however they want. I get the idea that standing him up straight could make him shove his head into platforms, and that would be a problem, but I think it's possible to find a pose that conveys a more anthropomorphic stance while keeping him hunched over. Perhaps a modified version of his stance in Mario Kart Wii?

To run. In literally every other appearance he's had, he doesn't do this. So because he could run by using his arms to propel himself forward a grand total of one game, it makes sense for him to completely copy DK's posture and movements exactly?

Again. Echo Fighters are not just model swaps. The animations don't need to be 1-1.

They're more "animalistic" because they're reflective of their old Rare days. Even back then Funky was not "animalistic". He was still walking upright and humanlike.

I'd have to go back and look, but I'm pretty sure that was true for King K. Rool too.

But then you'd probably raise issue with that because it's Dixie.

I'm not Team Unique Dixie. Honestly if Sakurai came out and stated the verdict on that whole argument I wouldn't find the answer weird regardless of what he said. Mostly though, I just don't care about her.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

On the flip side, why does everyone seem to be insisting that Dixie Kong has to be an echo? They had very different attacks in DKC2 where they were both playable. Dixie was also slower but had better aerial mobility. I don’t think they shared a single attack in those games. Admittedly, there were very few attacks in general but they were pretty distinct animation wise.

“Having a different Dash Attack” and “She was slightly slower” does not save her from a potential Echo status, and saying she could never ever be one feels really dismissive of other characters that currently have the moniker. Daisy was never associated with Toads, Lucina canonically learns swordplay from her father Chrom rather than Marth and thus has a much rowdier style in Awakening, Dark Pit has a full signature weapon he only pulls out for a Final Smash and Dark Samus uses a completely different source of attacks with an untapped arsenal. Outside of the Echo category, Falcondorf exists as the most extreme example of clones that were made to work. Of course Dixie fans are entitled to their wishes, but characters with far worse issues than “did not canonically perform a cartwheel” had to be given the Echo status to make it in and honestly it irks me when Dixie is touted as being too good for this treatment.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Echo Fighters are not just model swaps. The animations don't need to be 1-1.

They have to be close enough. Even some of Ken's animation changes are replacing one punch/kick with another.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yeah, I dunno, I could kinda sorta see Funky being an Echo but only in the same vein as like people saying Shadow would be an Echo of Sonic during Ultimate speculation/DLC cycle, meaning it would probably look really weird?

Considering Funky is an easygoing surfboarder, a skilled mechanic, and a gun and ammo salesman, I feel like there's definitely enough to work with to make him unique, or at worst a semi-clone.

I feel the same way about Dixie for the most part, but considering she and Diddy don't play very differently in the classic games minus the hair twirl, I honestly kind of believe there's more of a case for Dixie being a possible Echo, all things considered. People mention she doesn't have a tail sometimes and I'm just kinda like "okay but you could use her ponytail for that to functionally do the same thing" and then give her DK's Up Special, maybe with a little bit of lift on it like Dixie can get in Tropical Freeze.

Ideally though, both characters would be unique enough to make it on their own merits as unique fighters, but like Louie said a bit ago, I feel like next Smash will just keep DK, Diddy, and K. Rool, and that's it lol

 

[Louie G.]

I realize my concept isn’t for everyone but I’d like to see some other ideas too.

My ideas for Dixie Kong might not be what people think is ideal, being that it isn't fully unique, but I think it takes advantage of her unique traits while also tying her closely in line with the characters she shares so much in common.

Neutral B is the Bubble Gun which I think could go a couple ways. The ammo is smaller than Diddy's peanuts but can stick to the stage and influence character movement. Perhaps it can briefly immobilize opponents or slow them down if they come in contact. Alternatively I think it'd be fun to have her full charge blow a big bubble and pop for a close quarters power move.

I think Diddy Kong's Side B can stick around. Naturally Dixie Kong would grab on using her hair instead, but it would be functionally similar. Up B is borrowed from DK and maybe a bit from Meta Knight, or rather rightfully taken back from DK lol. I think she'd probably have three jumps or a really big second jump, so a more horizontal recovery makes sense. Grounded I think it'd function more like Mach Tornado or Incineroar's Lariat rather than the way DK does it.

Down B would be a reversal type attack. Dixie can grab physical projectiles or items out of the air with her ponytail and walk around with them freely before tossing back. I always thought her capability to do this was one of her most fun quirks, and highlights the unique utility of that ponytail.

I realize this isn't the bold fresh new direction for the character some people want, but this is kind of what I think would be realistic. Like Isabelle you got a couple unique attacks, a couple derivative ones with some tweaked function. And then normals would be a lot of brand new stuff with her ponytail. But in my mind she'd land somewhere on the Falco / Wolf spectrum and frankly I like that. I don't mind fun new spins on a base concept, I think those options are valuable and I believe I'd probably end up enjoying Dixie Kong more than Diddy (who I unfortunately just don't gel with in Smash at all).

 

[WeirdChillFever]

December 7th, 2022:

There‘s a difference between not adhering to ultra accuracy like a fighting game character and devising a cannon fodder set comprised of elements a character is barely associated with aside from appearing in the same series while jumping high and low that lending a majority of moves from a character from the same series with the same body type and the same acrobatic tendencies is unacceptable

And this is where to me the discussion stings, because Echoes all gave up their own moveset potential in order to get in, sometimes on a much grander scale than a little stats tick here and a different grab animation there. Lucina canonically fights like her father, not her grandgrandgrandgrandfather. Dark Pit also has a signature weapon he does not use outside of his Final Smash and render. Daisy is not associated with Toads whatsoever, did not appear in Super Mario Bros. 2 to pluck Turnips, does not share Peach’s float ability, is usually in a different stat class than Peach in spin-offs and her signature flower power is relegated to the measliest of animation changes. Dark Samus is made of a substance that doesn’t feature in her set at all. Even Richter, whose moves are implemented in the base Belmont set, does not use Holy Water the way it works in his game.

To jump high and low that Dixie could never in the whole wide world be an Echo because of animation differences and stat tweaks flies past the characters that have already been made into Echo Fighters, especially when there is no friction in abilities at all in any of Diddy’s moves and the reason why it “couldn’t“ work is because Dixie is supposed to have potential. She does, but she can join the club with the rest in that regard.

Of course, this is not about potential or preference. Obviously a unique Dixie could carry her weight and a set that shows what the series is known for is always preferable. I’m not arguing Dixie should be an Echo or would be an Echo. Just that she could.

I knew this discussion sounded familiar

 

[Gengar84]

“Having a different Dash Attack” and “She was slightly slower” does not save her from a potential Echo status, and saying she could never ever be one feels really dismissive of other characters that currently have the moniker. Daisy was never associated with Toads, Lucina canonically learns swordplay from her father Chrom rather than Marth and thus has a much rowdier style in Awakening, Dark Pit has a full signature weapon he only pulls out for a Final Smash and Dark Samus uses a completely different source of attacks with an untapped arsenal. Outside of the Echo category, Falcondorf exists as the most extreme example of clones that were made to work. Of course Dixie fans are entitled to their wishes, but characters with far worse issues than “did not canonically perform a cartwheel” had to be given the Echo status to make it in and honestly it irks me when Dixie is touted as being too good for this treatment.

She also has a different grab but I get the picture. I’m not completely happy with Diddy’s moveset in Smash either so that might be part of it. I think people are reading my statements the wrong way. I’m not saying that she can’t be an echo, just that I’d prefer she be unique. On the flip side, Funky could easily be unique, I’d just prefer that effort go to another character. I’m not trying to make any definitive statements that anyone can’t or has to be an echo.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They have to be close enough. Even some of Ken's animation changes are replacing one punch/kick with another.

I think most, if not all, of the attacks that Ken has animation changes for are functionally different from Ryu's attacks as well. Whether or not this strengthens or weakens your argument relies entirely on whether or not you consider Ken an Echo Fighter, and I don't really want to get into that now.

 

[Gengar84]

I do feel kind of hypocritical here to be fair. I’m the one that constantly talks about my preference for side characters but it’s still kind of hard for me to accept Smash going with a unique Funky before Dixie. I think a big part of that is that Donkey Kong Country 2 was my absolute favorite game growing up so I have a strong connection to Dixie. I used to also really like Funky but I personally find his voice kind of annoying in Tropical Freeze and I preferred his earlier designs from the SNES games.

That’s why I responded that I’d be cool with getting Funky over Dixie if he were an echo since they don’t take as much work. Not to say that Funky can’t be unique but it would help me accept not getting Dixie. At the end of the day, Smash is just a game and I’ll be fine either way. I’ll even be happy for Funky’s fans like I was for Steve’s (who was my #1 least wanted). I was just trying to explain my personal preference and I apologize if any of that came off as dismissive.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Whether or not this strengthens or weakens your argument relies entirely on whether or not you consider Ken an Echo Fighter

Well uh I do since his gameplay differences are nowhere near as vast as the likes of Ness and Lucas.

What's allegedly the "one rule that Echoes absolutely need to follow" is that they have to have the exact same body proportions, which applies to Ness and Lucas, and yet despite that and being a variant on Ness's moveset, Lucas isn't Fighter 10e and I'm sure that has a lot to do with how Lucas has a lot more moves and stats that aren't 1:1 with Ness than Ken has with Ryu.

 

[Louie G.]

I was just trying to explain my personal preference and I apologize if any of that came off as dismissive.

You're good, there's no bad blood here I just wanted to highlight the bit of inconsistency within the discussion. I think any community will feel a bit burnt at being told their character doesn't have much else going for them than being a clone, Dixie and Funky alike. But I felt like it was important to try and stomp out the argument early seeing Funky Kong slowly rise up into being a more prominently discussed character.

My potentially controversial take with DK as well is simply that with a hero, sidekick and villain already in tow they can get away with segmenting off into a choice driven entirely by unique inspiration rather than going down the list to see who's next in line. That's kind of why I feel for Cranky Kong, because I think he'd be a fighter like none other so far. Once upon a time I'd have said the same of Kirby but BWD is a bit too much to ignore right now, whereas Cranky and Funky are effectively serving the same prominent roles that Dixie Kong is as of Tropical Freeze. I don't think it's quite as clear cut a matter of main character vs side character as it would have been suggesting this prior to that game.

Dixie has the legacy, Funky has the new school marketing and Mario Kart, Cranky Kong has the Mario Movie... they've all got some good stuff going on.

 

[Gengar84]

You're good, there's no bad blood here I just wanted to highlight the bit of inconsistency within the discussion. I think any community will feel a bit burnt at being told their character doesn't have much else going for them than being a clone, Dixie and Funky alike. But I felt like it was important to try and stomp out the argument early seeing Funky Kong slowly rise up into being a more prominently discussed character.

My potentially controversial take with DK as well is simply that with a hero, sidekick and villain already in tow they can get away with segmenting off into a choice driven entirely by unique inspiration rather than going down the list to see who's next in line. That's kind of why I feel for Cranky Kong, because I think he'd be a fighter like none other so far. Once upon a time I'd have said the same of Kirby but BWD is a bit too much to ignore right now, whereas Cranky and Funky are effectively serving the same prominent roles that Dixie Kong is as of Tropical Freeze. I don't think it's quite as clear cut a matter of main character vs side character as it would have been suggesting this prior to that game.

Dixie has the legacy, Funky has the new school marketing and Mario Kart, Cranky Kong has the Mario Movie... they've all got some good stuff going on.

Yeah that’s true. Dixie is my personal favorite character in the series (even more than the three characters already in Smash) so I’ve been really looking forward to seeing her join the roster. Thats why I’d be kind of disappointed seeing another character first. Like I said though, as long as that character is fun to play, I’ll be fine. Smash is just a game so it’s not worth getting so worked up over it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm somehow simultaneously aggressively disinterested in the concept of adding Cranky Kong, and expect that if they did add him that I'd find him to be one of the most charming characters added within that game.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I'm somehow simultaneously aggressively disinterested in the concept of adding Cranky Kong, and expect that if they did add him that I'd find him to be one of the most charming characters added within that game.

“What, you need some newfangled meter gimmick to be excited for a character? What’s wrong with some good old buttons, lad?”

 

[Gengar84]

I'm somehow simultaneously aggressively disinterested in the concept of adding Cranky Kong, and expect that if they did add him that I'd find him to be one of the most charming characters added within that game.

I’m right there with you. I actually think he’d have a really fun moveset, I’m just pulling for Dixie over him.

The main thing I think we can all agree on is that Smash could use a lot more David Wise music than it currently has. His music was a big part of why I loved the DKC games so much.