Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

Zelda , has an undead equivalent to a zombie

...Zombie is literally a Fighter in this game.

TRIFLING GNOME! YOUR ARROGANCE WILL BE YOUR UNDOING!

But I'm in charge here...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

OK, hear me out…

Yeah, I know the Darkstalkers series has pretty much remained dormant for years, but after Capcom Fighting Collection (despite most players' short-lived interest in it), I think this franchise should at least have a sliver of a chance.

And I know that even if Darkstalkers were likely enough to have some playable representation for Smash, they'd just go with Morrigan. But in Japan, the series is called Vampire, which is exactly what Demitri is. Personally, I think he represents the series better than Morrigan does.

The Midnight Bliss models would be so funny, honestly

they would never do Midnight Bliss

 

[DarthEnderX]

The Midnight Bliss models would be so funny, honestly

they would never do Midnight Bliss

Step 1: Add Super Crown
Step 2: Reuse Super Crown assets for Midnight Bliss.
Step 3: PROFIT!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Step 1: Add Super Crown
Step 2: Reuse Super Crown assets for Midnight Bliss.
Step 3: PROFIT!

The idea that Demitri turns everyone into Peach is honestly so funny

 

[Guynamednelson]

Reuse Super Crown assets for Midnight Bliss.

Dimitri is going to turn the entire cast of Smash into 10 coins?

 

[Ivander]

The idea that Demitri turns everyone into Peach is honestly so funny

I mean, according to lore, Midnight Bliss doesn't change people into a girl, but into something Demitri himself finds more appealing for his tastes(quite literally when it's exactly what he does to them after changing them). The above would just mean that Demitri just finds Peach so appealing that he just transforms everybody else into her since nothing else appeals him anymore.

 

[TheQuester]

Kinda random.
But how do you guys feel about Threed as a new earthbound stage?
I'm playing Eartbound for the first time, and Threed has become one of my favourite locations in JRPGs.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Demitri can work as an Assist Trophy IMO.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Kinda random.
But how do you guys feel about Threed as a new earthbound stage?
I'm playing Eartbound for the first time, and Threed has become one of my favourite locations in JRPGs.
View attachment 393966

Only if we get to fight at Threed's Feed and Seed.

In all seriousness, even though I'm not super familiar with the source material I wouldn't mind this stage for aesthetics alone. Having a small town stage that takes place at night would be neat, especially if they kept the blue trees/grass and you fought near the graveyard. Maybe Urban Zombies could roam around too.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Threed's Feed and Seed

Formerly Mad Duck's

 

[Stratos]

... There's an answer to this but I don't wanna spoil anything lol

Also Kazuya is part demon, does he count?

Yes, you're right, but on the other hand I meant a character who was a demon to begin with.

Dracula is a vampire
Zelda , has an undead equivalent to a zombie
What do you mean by ; living object ?
There are ghosts from Pac-man
Kazuya definitely fits the demonic bill
Mega-Man is a Cyborg
There are spirits with horses and a horse can be considered a living food

Maybe you didn't read it well but I had written about fighters and not in general. As for live objects I mean, either a live car (like F-Type), or a live unicycle, or a live ball, or whatever, as long as it's a video game character. Also by live food I mean live pizza, live hamburger and others that are also from video games.

I mean we have a playable duck and a playable frog and people eat those so I think living food is covered. Also we have a zombie alt

Stratos said as fighters so several of your examples are moot
The Zelda enemies you are thinking of are called redeads
Megaman is a robot not a cyborg
Living objects are characters whose appearance is that of a usually inanimate object, see Pokemon like magenmite

Well said but about living objects I meant either living car (like F-Type), living unicycle, living furniture and many more. By live foods I meant live pizza, live pasta and more. As for the alt costume you mentioned... yes there is the zombie from the Minecraft series, but in general undead I would like it not to be anyone's alt costume. And generally everything I mentioned should be video game characters.

TRIFLING GNOME! YOUR ARROGANCE WILL BE YOUR UNDOING!

YOU FACE JARAXXUS

EREDAR LORD OF THE BURNING LEGION

Jaraxxus is an interesting character, but do you think of him in the Super Smash Bros series as a fighter or as a boss? However, either one or the other, I like him.

OK, hear me out…

Yeah, I know the Darkstalkers series has pretty much remained dormant for years, but after Capcom Fighting Collection (despite most players' short-lived interest in it), I think this franchise should at least have a sliver of a chance.

And I know that even if Darkstalkers were likely enough to have some playable representation for Smash, they'd just go with Morrigan. But in Japan, the series is called Vampire, which is exactly what Demitri is. Personally, I think he represents the series better than Morrigan does.

Indeed, they should bring Demitri into the Super Smash Bros. series as a fighter.

 

[ninjahmos]

TRIFLING GNOME! YOUR ARROGANCE WILL BE YOUR UNDOING!

YOU FACE JARAXXUS

EREDAR LORD OF THE BURNING LEGION

Jaraxxus would be pretty cool…but you know who I think would be even better?

LEEEEEROOOY JENKINS!

 

[CannonStreak]

Jaraxxus would be pretty cool…but you know who I think would be even better?

LEEEEEROOOY JENKINS!

Imagine if other Smasher could talk more, and said "God damnit, Leeroy!" When he wins.

His winning quote should be...

"At least I have chicken." LOL

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm very much not a fan of gliding.
Gliding I think is simply not healthy for the game in any form, yes, including Steve who can just recover from hell and has a hitbox on it and has zero endlag.
Having that level of aerial mobility at no expense means an incredibly large number of options unexploitable by pretty much any reasonable character in the cast. It's really boring, even in comparison to tethers which literally just grab the ledge. There are any number of ways to represent wings which would be both more interesting, visually appealing, and have some combat utility.

And, like honestly? Holy **** it looks so awful.
Like actually look at gliding characters, they lock up in a rigid pose and then get moved around midair with all the grace of a brick, certainly not the elegance I'd associate with wings.

If you said that Steve only gets away with Elytra because most of the other characters can't really be edge-guarded because they're either too fast or have to big of hitboxes, I'd probably believe you. In a lower recovery power game Elytra would definitely need nerfs. IIRC through, the only reason he can get that much height is due to weird exploits like flicking the stick down at certain points during your ascent, so in theory I don't think it'd be that hard to clean up.

As far as them animating...yeah the posing they chose for everyone but Steve is really bad, and the lack of transition frames from one angle to the next in Brawl just makes it look even more awkward. I highly doubt these are unsolvable problems though.

I think my problem with it as a general mechanic is that it doesn't really work outside of up specials. This is, like, 10ish year old me's anecdote so I guess a grain of salt is required, but I remember thinking that gliding was straight up bad because trying to go up put you in free fall, downward momentum from swooping didn't translate into upward momentum intuitively, trying to go up too much killed you, and I never figured out how to end it without sailing into my opponent. Steve's implementation made the whole thing a lot better in my eyes. I also just...wouldn't give it to most of the winged characters? I think it'd be more fitting for Ridley and Charizard to get actual flight, and Pit gliding always struck me as odd since he's supposed to be aviationally challenged. Meta Knight would probably be the only one I'd give it back to.

The Midnight Bliss models would be so funny, honestly

they would never do Midnight Bliss

I'd imagine most of the transformations would be jokes rather than gender bends of their characters. The avatars could swap to their female models though. lol

they'd still never do it though.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'd imagine most of the transformations would be jokes

This is actually the case with Morrigan, Demitri doesn't make her hotter.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I also just...wouldn't give it to most of the winged characters? I think it'd be more fitting for Ridley and Charizard to get actual flight, and Pit gliding always struck me as odd since he's supposed to be aviationally challenged. Meta Knight would probably be the only one I'd give it back to.

I do think it'd be more fitting for Charizard and Ridley to just get full on flight, but at the same time you can't really just give them full on flight for no recovery resource (or at least, I don't think it'd be a good idea to lol).

I also just wanted to chime in and say that I think it's really funny Steve is the only one with a "good" gliding animation and that's just because Steve already has that style of animation on most things he does lol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I do think it'd be more fitting for Charizard and Ridley to just get full on flight, but at the same time you can't really just give them full on flight for no recovery resource (or at least, I don't think it'd be a good idea to lol).

Oh definitely. My thinking is that it would act kind of like a combination of the float and Robo Burner mechanics, possibly with a further balancing point of limiting what you can do while flying.

In terms of how it's used, I'm mostly picturing what it's like in UMvC3 and MvCI. I definitely don't want it to be a 'lol I hover out of reach for the entire game" button.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

OK, hear me out…

Yeah, I know the Darkstalkers series has pretty much remained dormant for years, but after Capcom Fighting Collection (despite most players' short-lived interest in it), I think this franchise should at least have a sliver of a chance.

And I know that even if Darkstalkers were likely enough to have some playable representation for Smash, they'd just go with Morrigan. But in Japan, the series is called Vampire, which is exactly what Demitri is. Personally, I think he represents the series better than Morrigan does.

He! You know the character I'd love to get from that series is...

But I'm consciious of how moch improbable that is.
Heck! Even she has more chances to be in SSB:

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Mega-Man is a Cyborg

Actually, Mega-Man is an android. Cyborg is refered to someone that was once a human, like Cyborg 009, or has a large amount od metallic part in his body, like Robocop. The definition is very shaded, even John Silver in Treasure Planet referes to himself as a cyborg despite having just one cybernetic arm, but being born as human is the essential requirment.

 

[Kirbeh]

Re: Demitri

If we could actually get a Darkstalkers character or even just an AT or something, I'd be very happy.

Demitri is technically still the og protag and poster boy of the series if they want to avoid Morrigan for being "too exposed."

(Morrigan's sprite as an AT would be pretty funny tho)

I know we have Bayo, but they also skipped out on letting Mai appear in the background, so it's honestly hard to say where someone like Morrigan falls.

As for Midnight Bliss, there's no way that would ever make it in. For one, that's a lot of extra work even if they stuck to PNGs/sprites over models.

Second, they'd have to get the okay from everyone involved to give blatantly risque designs/gender bends to their characters. Some could be joke versions too, but even then, I highly doubt every IP holder would be on board.

The biggest hurdle of all though is that it's Darkstalkers and there's no way Capcom would push for it when they could advertise a series they actually use on a regular basis.

It's too much work and too much of a negotiations headache to be done today, especially for a project like Smash that probably wouldn't be looking to include something like that in the first place.

Midnight Bliss isn't even safe in it's own games. It's already been confirmed that there'll be some alterations and removals to it when Capcom Fighting Collection 2 drops.

He! You know the character I'd love to get from that series is...
View attachment 393970
But I'm consciious of how moch improbable that is.
Heck! Even she has more chances to be in SSB:

If Mai, Morrigan and Demitri are iffy longshot never evers then I don't even know where that puts Felicia.

If this were a different crossover game with at least a B/C rating she might have a chance given that she usually gets top billing alongside Morrigan but her design simply wouldn't fly in Smash.

 

[SharkLord]

Re: Demitri

If we could actually get a Darkstalkers character or even just an AT or something, I'd be very happy.

Demitri is technically still the og protag and poster boy of the series if they want to avoid Morrigan for being "too exposed."

(Morrigan's sprite as an AT would be pretty funny tho)

I know we have Bayo, but they also skipped out on letting Mai appear in the background, so it's honestly hard to say where someone like Morrigan falls.

Eh, Mai would've been a quick background cameo even if she did get in. If they want an actual Darkstalkers character I'm sure they'd go for Morrigan, and I'm also sure they'd put the extra work in for a family-friendly redesign.

And yeah, Mai's gotten some more modest redesigns in some crossover appearances, but those might be a bit tangled up with whoever owned the series recieving the crossovers. Either way, I think Bayo's a better reference point due to being an actual fighter and not a background cameo

 

[Kirbeh]

Eh, Mai would've been a quick background cameo even if she did get in. If they want an actual Darkstalkers character I'm sure they'd go for Morrigan, and I'm also sure they'd put the extra work in for a family-friendly redesign.

And yeah, Mai's gotten some more modest redesigns in some crossover appearances, but those might be a bit tangled up with whoever owned the series recieving the crossovers. Either way, I think Bayo's a better reference point due to being an actual fighter and not a background cameo

My point was less about the role and more of being included at all. Morrigan has pretty similar exposure to Mai. If anything it's more on top, and while she's got leggings, her leotard still leaves her in a similar position to characters like Mai or Cammy.

As for Felicia, if Mai couldn't be a background cameo then Felicia certainly wouldn't fare any better. Honestly the same goes for Morrigan too.

As for actually being playable, Morrigan is the obvious frontrunner for sure, but Demitri is still a fair alternative imo.

That all aside, it's not like DS had a chance to begin with when its got to compete with a second unique SF rep like Chun or Bison, a second MM rep like Zero, Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, Devil May Cry and Ace Attorney.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Demitri is technically still the og protag and poster boy of the series if they want to avoid Morrigan for being "too exposed."

They're more likely to keep Morrigan and just alter her outfit. She's been the face of the series for ages and is far and away the most popular character from it.

Morrigan has pretty similar exposure to Mai. If anything it's more on top, and while she's got leggings, her leotard still leaves her in a similar position to characters like Mai or Cammy.

Morrigan is no more exposed than Bayonetta is during her Final Smash. The main issue Mai has based on Japanese guidelines is the upskirt issue.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

If this were a different crossover game with at least a B/C rating she might have a chance given that she usually gets top billing alongside Morrigan but her design simply wouldn't fly in Smash.

They used to say the same about Snake, but Super Smash Bros. is pretty chaotic in design harmony, compared to other platform fighting games like Brawlhalla or Rivals Of Aether, and, be honest, that's why we love it!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Either way, I think Bayo's a better reference point due to being an actual fighter and not a background cameo

Another thing that helps Bayo is that while her usual outfits don't leave much to the imagination, they aren't exactly that far off from something like Zero Suit Samus, unlike Mai who is practically defined by showing way more skin than an E10+ game would allow.

There's a lot of things about her that make her not for good boys and girls, but her (default) outfits aren't one of them.

 

[fogbadge]

Kinda random.
But how do you guys feel about Threed as a new earthbound stage?
I'm playing Eartbound for the first time, and Threed has become one of my favourite locations in JRPGs.
View attachment 393966

I think I've suggested it as a stage once or twice. I like the idea of the circus tent and the graveyard

Actually, Mega-Man is an android. Cyborg is refered to someone that was once a human, like Cyborg 009, or has a large amount od metallic part in his body, like Robocop. The definition is very shaded, even John Silver in Treasure Planet referes to himself as a cyborg despite having just one cybernetic arm, but being born as human is the essential requirment.

something tells me you haven't watched that film in a while. cause it's more than the arm

 

[Hypercat-Z]

something tells me you haven't watched that film in a while. cause it's more than the arm

Note taken. Gotta rewatch it ASAP.

Back on thread. A thing they really should implement is an event match creator.
Like: You can choose the playable character(s), the ommponent(s), the conditions, the stage and the objective.
And where you can even assign a music not belonging to the same franchise of the stage.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Back on thread. A thing they really should implement is an event match creator.
Like: You can choose the playable character(s), the ommponent(s), the conditions, the stage and the objective.
And where you can even assign a music not belonging to the same franchise of the stage.

Honestly, I would be so down for that.

Getting to make your own stuff and send it online would be so cool.

 

[Pupp135]

Re:

Is it too early to speculate about the next Smash Bros?
The main questions so far are:
1. Will it happen?
2. Will Sakurai be still behind it?
3. Will it have a smaller roster (DLC excluded)?
4. Will it be a launch title for the "Switch 2"(I don't think this will be it's actual name)?

1. I’m confident that there will be a sequel because of how profitable the series is.
2. I think that Sakurai will stay for this one, but it may be his last one.
3. I’ll lean towards yes, but I think the roster will be at the lowest, base For’s, but I can see it reaching base Ultimate’s size (note that cuts would happen, and there are newcomers.
4. I don’t see the next game being a launch title for the Switch successor. I think the big launch title would be Mario Kart 9/10.

Do you think they could have adjusted the gameplay of Zelda and Sheik so they did actually play well off each other as a duo rather than splitting them up? I realize they had issues but I’m not sure it was an unfixable problem. They managed to make Pokemon Trainer work well in Ultimate despite their own problems in Brawl. I just thought the transformation idea was cool and I’m still sad to see it dropped. I wonder if they could have salvaged the idea with a better balanced character.

I feel like the best way to adjust their gameplay is to majorly buff Zelda (I don’t have concrete ideas), given that the problem was that she’s always been less viable than Sheik by a large amount even when split. The only time that I think where the transformation gimmick worked well was in a fangame.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Is it too early to speculate about the next Smash Bros?
The main questions so far are:
1. Will it happen?
2. Will Sakurai be still behind it?
3. Will it have a smaller roster (DLC excluded)?
4. Will it be a launch title for the "Switch 2"(I don't think this will be it's actual name)?

Asking if it's too early to speculate about the next Smash in a thread called "Next Smash - Speculation Discussion Thread"

Anyway...
1. No way Nintendo would give up on a massively profitable franchise like Smash. We even know based off of Brawl's development that they're willing to make plans without Sakurai in the eventuality that he says no.
2. Given the man's work ethic, no doubt on it.
3. I doubt we'll get the massive 76-character roster Ultimate started as from the get-go. However, including newcomers, I could still see it be around 50.
4. Smash has historically never been a launch title. Melee was intended to be one but ended up missing the mark by a couple days. I think the Brawl-onwards tactic of releasing it somewhere in the second year of a console's life has been effective enough that I don't see them changing it.

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve said this before but, at least for me, a drastically smaller roster pretty much kills my hype and interest in speculating newcomers. Smash has so many mainstays that basically have to come back every time. If the roster is cut to 50 or so, that doesn’t leave much room for anyone new unless you start cutting important characters. Third party is even worse where only the most mainstream characters could even have any chance. I think getting a smaller character like Fulgore is basically out of the question at that point. Like, it wouldn’t make any sense to cut Ryu or Mega Man to give us Phoenix Wright or another smaller Capcom character. The same is true for the other third party companies in Smash.

Thats not to say the game can’t still be fun to play. An ambitious single player adventure could go a long way in helping with that. Revamping veteran movesets could be interesting too. I just wouldn’t particularly care much about the roster at that point because it would essentially kill any hope I had for any of my most wanted characters. My main hope at that point would be at least keeping a few of my favorites rather than getting anyone new.

 

[Shinuto]

The Midnight Bliss models would be so funny, honestly

they would never do Midnight Bliss

Yeah but no one CARES about Demitri

 

[fogbadge]

I’ve said this before but, at least for me, a drastically smaller roster pretty much kills my hype and interest in speculating newcomers. Smash has so many mainstays that basically have to come back every time. If the roster is cut to 50 or so, that doesn’t leave much room for anyone new unless you start cutting important characters. Third party is even worse where only the most mainstream characters could even have any chance. I think getting a smaller character like Fulgore is basically out of the question at that point. Like, it wouldn’t make any sense to cut Ryu or Mega Man to give us Phoenix Wright or another smaller Capcom character. The same is true for the other third party companies in Smash.

Thats not to say the game can’t still be fun to play. An ambitious single player adventure could go a long way in helping with that. Revamping veteran movesets could be interesting too. I just wouldn’t particularly care much about the roster at that point because it would essentially kill any hope I had for any of my most wanted characters. My main hope at that point would be at least keeping a few of my favorites rather than getting anyone new.

it’s been that way for smaller first parties for a while

 

[Gengar84]

it’s been that way for smaller first parties for a while

We did get Banjo and Terry in Ultimate for third party at least. I think characters like that would have a hard time making it in with a 50 character roster limit.

For first party, we still got Duck Hunt in Smash 4 who most people younger than me have probably never heard of.

 

[fogbadge]

We did get Banjo and Terry in Ultimate for third party at least. I think characters like that would have a hard time making it in with a 50 character roster limit.

you’re not wrong I’m just saying it’s sort of happening

 

[Gengar84]

you’re not wrong I’m just saying it’s sort of happening

Yeah that’s true. My fear is how much worse it will be with essentially half the roster size. If we’re already struggling to get many smaller characters with 80+ characters, I don’t see how we’ll get any at all with around 50.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Yeah crashing back to the ground now that the sky is the limit would be pretty lame. In terms of the roster.

Everything else could improve, but it's difficult to imagine the gameplay becoming that much better for the audience at large and that's the most important thing alongside the roster.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I’ve said this before but, at least for me, a drastically smaller roster pretty much kills my hype and interest in speculating newcomers. Smash has so many mainstays that basically have to come back every time. If the roster is cut to 50 or so, that doesn’t leave much room for anyone new unless you start cutting important characters. Third party is even worse where only the most mainstream characters could even have any chance. I think getting a smaller character like Fulgore is basically out of the question at that point. Like, it wouldn’t make any sense to cut Ryu or Mega Man to give us Phoenix Wright or another smaller Capcom character. The same is true for the other third party companies in Smash.

Thats not to say the game can’t still be fun to play. An ambitious single player adventure could go a long way in helping with that. Revamping veteran movesets could be interesting too. I just wouldn’t particularly care much about the roster at that point because it would essentially kill any hope I had for any of my most wanted characters. My main hope at that point would be at least keeping a few of my favorites rather than getting anyone new.

A scenario like this is why third parties need to start investing more into their own crossovers.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think one thing that has been missed in the whole Midnight Bliss discussion is that the concept itself is going to be difficult to translate for Super Smash Bros. Most of its appearances either involve blood and/or the opponent withering away for a moment. Neither would gel with the age rating, and the latter is kinda impossible to do with 3D models. There's a version that doesn't have either of these things in Capcom Fighting Evolution, but it's pretty lame. I have a feeling an official take on Midnight Bliss would be more about highlighting the cool demon looking form he has as he sucks the Vague Purple Ethereal Energy that Definitely Isn't Blood (TM).

If they do the whole joke model swap thing, it'll be minor alterations or the usage of models on hand from other projects for any cast members that change at all. For example:

• Samus just turns into Zero Suit Samus, and Zero Suit Samus does not change.
• Fox gets a pair of shades.
• Kirby becomes Kirb.
• Mario has his NES color scheme.
• Ness and Lucas are retextured to look like clay.
• King Dedede turns into his Club Penguin Kirby Returns to Dreamland Deluxe design.
• Any male version of an avatar becomes the female version.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

A scenario like this is why third parties need to start investing more into their own crossovers.

If the other platform fighting games keep getting better and better I can see a scenario where their companies starts a tug of war to get the exclusive on guest characters.