Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

Part of the issue is the (seeming?) lack of more significant non-Sakurai Kirby elements in Smash makes BWD not being playable look worse than it really merits. Most probably would simply conclude he lacked major significance until recently but that backdrop of perceived Sakurai bias with all things Kirby related in Smash colors a lot of perceptions, fairly or unfairly.

That's why I think the most productive conversation is to talk stages and Assist Trophies. We all know that Great Cave Offensive and GB Dream Land were pretty silly picks in juxtaposition with the recent developments the series had made. A Nightmare AT that does nothing but make the screen dark is lame. Kirby's music could be better, but it feels like they've at least attempted to mend their shortcomings here. If we got a couple modern stages, like Lor Starcutter, and an AT for Magolor or something then this conversation would look much different.

Which is to say I understand why people are so sore about it, but it really has nothing to do with Bandana Dee. Once we start nitpicking the roster about it, it feels like less of a problem. I'd love a couple more Kirby characters too but Kirby / Dedede / Meta Knight is a perfectly fair lineup for Brawl -> Ultimate.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The funny thing is that I think the most slept on Kirby character might actually be Prince Fluff. Epic Yarn is so charming and has so many cool little abilities and transformations that representing it via that character would be a great tribute to generally well executed Kirby spin-off. He's not likely given the sheer number of mainline characters that could do wonderful things in Smash, but there's merit there if done right.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I just wish HAL was able to decide how their series is represented in Smash like Intelligent Systems or Pokemon Company (two other second party studios) were, since I really doubt that we'd still be getting nothing but Adventure/Super Star stages if it were up to them and not the guy who decided to quit the Kirby series like 20 years ago.

Like we get it Sakurai, you were a director on the Kirby series up until Air Ride and then a special advisor on Amazing Mirror, but the series has literally had two decades beyond that I'd like to see explored at some point. Hell, even within your games, I'd be okay with a stage from like 64 or Amazing Mirror, can we just stop with all the Super Star stuff? It's kinda been played to death at this point lol

I'm very hopeful Forgotten Land being the new best selling Kirby game will give HAL the ability to choose some things on their own if you couldn't tell lol

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, Great Cave Offensive was picked... with things like 8-Player Smash in mind and chaos. It's meant to be ridiculous. And that's a good thing. We should have those kind. The problem was that it could show up in stuff like Classic Mode, where you're playing serious matches and that costs a lot of Stocks too easily.

Stages are fine as selections generally. It's just sometimes they're not appropriate for a specific mode and make some tasks difficult in an unreasonable way. Or if you will, fake difficulty.

 

[Louie G.]

I just wish HAL was able to decide how their series is represented in Smash like Intelligent Systems or Pokemon Company (two other second party studios) were, since I really doubt that we'd still be getting nothing but Adventure/Super Star stages if it were up to them and not the guy who decided to quit the Kirby series like 20 years ago.

Honestly, I think this might have something to do with it. Less so that they CAN'T decide, moreso that they have deep respect for Sakurai's vision for his own characters / series and probably just let him do his thing. A lot of these other series probably have specific requests from devs, concerns over character representation, yadda yadda, but Kirby is a unique case where Sakurai is kind of allowed to freestyle and HAL chooses to adapt to him instead.

But this does invite a bit of a sticky situation. Is it right to tell Sakurai how to handle the series he created? Personally I think they ought to push back a bit more on stage selection, but Sakurai should be able to develop the characters however he likes. I've seen people get petty over some of the moveset decisions he's made in regards to the trio but he absolutely should have the authority to make those calls with characters that he knows so intimately. Like how Marx's boss battle had new stuff like those veins and his eyeballs popping out... he made that stuff up, but it's built off a concept he created. I kinda really like to see that because it's the only opportunity he has to explore these characters himself otherwise.

Naturally though, if we invite in characters like Bandana Dee or Magolor, then he's probably going to have to communicate a bit more.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I mean, Great Cave Offensive was picked... with things like 8-Player Smash in mind and chaos. It's meant to be ridiculous. And that's a good thing.

See, if I wanted 8-Player Smash chaos though, I'd pick a smaller stage like Shadow Moses because it's hilarious seeing everyone careening off the walls like they're pinballs.

Palutena's Temple, Great Cave Offensive, and to a lesser extent Temple from Melee just kinda lend themselves to everyone splitting off and doing whatever because they're so huge, which zooms the camera out and makes everyone look like ants on the screen. They're not really good at the chaos they were supposed to embody, they're just kinda big for the sake of big.

 

[fogbadge]

Bandana Dee got to sit in with the big boys in Return to Dream Land, and then served in a background supporting role in Triple Deluxe and Robobot. His major appearances past that, leading up to the crafting of Ultimate's roster, were spinoffs like Battle Royale and Rainbow Curse. This really wasn't that impressive of a resume up until he hit a further stride with Star Allies, reaffirming him as the fourth party member, and then upgrading to Player 2 in Forgotten Land. Star Allies came out the same year as Smash Ultimate and was only able to influence music and spirits.

The bottom line is I really can't take the criticisms about Bandana Dee all that seriously until now. Right this moment, and leading into next game, is where his inclusion makes the most sense. His track record was way spottier than that of Dedede or Meta Knight prior to this, both of these characters had much more impact on a given narrative and usually served as one of the game's central elements (Triple Deluxe and Robobot, for Dedede and MK respectively). "Player 4 in Return to Dream Land" was his badge of honor circa 2016, when the roster was decided, because I don't think throwing Kirby power-ups was uniquely inspiring.

I’m not saying bandana should have been in by now. I’m saying he’s probably not getting in at all. I just don’t see why his bias would only extend to the stages. Look at how he treats other series. Look at the other characters who got in before or after their time. How many characters who were next in line got passed over? So what if bandana doesn’t make sense until now? That’s not how smash works. But Kirby, meta knight and dedede all get a fair bit of special treatment here and there like the OCs in a work of fanfiction. Which I suppose they are

palutena is not getting cut. especially not if the only reason anyone can come up with for why she’d be cut is a case of extreme cuts. And sakurai will continue to give favouritism to the games he made. Or at least the ones he can easily license

Yeah, in the far future. But that one sounds incredibly hard to make.

Like for real. The possibilities are endless with that one. Nintendo at least has an end.

I thought you would just have a list of characters for all the series in smash and then an open section for people to suggest whoever

Those are the same facts as during the earlier years of Smash, when it took three games to get the other two characters. Which is apparently too long ago to matter, even though nothing about this has changed. He wasn't in a rush to include his characters then, and he still doesn't seem to be now.

So, despite the Kirby content being highly concentrated to his games since the beginning of the Smash series, Sakurai's bias kicked in around the time it was convenient for your argument, huh?

Don’t try and twist it. Like I said before I’m focusing on the now not 20 years ago when his thinking was probably very different. If you think sakurai is a robot who hasn’t changed in all that time then more power to you. But if you can say that the games always being skewed towards his work is somehow proof he isn’t bias then you need to rethink your position. Why don’t you try that instead of attacking other people’s character?

 

[ScrubReborn]

Palutena's Temple, Great Cave Offensive, and to a lesser extent Temple from Melee just kinda lend themselves to everyone splitting off and doing whatever because they're so huge, which zooms the camera out and makes everyone look like ants on the screen. They're not really good at the chaos they were supposed to embody, they're just kinda big for the sake of big.

I get what you sayian but at the same time, sometimes everyone splitting off and doing whatever is exactly what I'm looking for. I think it's cool when you can have multiple different fights going on at once without them intruding on each other.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I thought you would just have a list of characters for all the series in smash and then an open section for people to suggest whoever

We wouldn't get many meaningful results if characters were just written in.

We'd only have so many slots.

 

[fogbadge]

We wouldn't get many meaningful results if characters were just written in.

We'd only have so many slots.

fair point. well good luck with it anyway

 

[PeridotGX]

Is Palutena in any real danger?

I'm confident Pit is safe and Dark Pit is a different set of circumstances.

I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up being cut. Let's be honest for a moment: she's a side character from a series that hasn't had a game in a decade. She's one of the most disposable unique characters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

See, if I wanted 8-Player Smash chaos though, I'd pick a smaller stage like Shadow Moses because it's hilarious seeing everyone careening off the walls like they're pinballs.

Palutena's Temple, Great Cave Offensive, and to a lesser extent Temple from Melee just kinda lend themselves to everyone splitting off and doing whatever because they're so huge, which zooms the camera out and makes everyone look like ants on the screen. They're not really good at the chaos they were supposed to embody, they're just kinda big for the sake of big.

I dunno, I felt they did a good job at making it ridiculous for chaos. Whether you split off into another area(as noted by another user), or just grouped together.

Palutena's Temple is the only one that feels a tad big, but I get why it's there. I don't do 8-Player Smash often, but I really do enjoy it on large stages since it's so damn silly. The issue isn't the stage so much as there's no good way to make sure players have split screens focused on them to prevent it from being hard to see. Which isn't a strict issue with its design, so much as it's great for chaos, bad for anything else. Temple and GCO don't have this issue, though. They're not that big.

 

[Louie G.]

Look at how he treats other series. Look at the other characters who got in before or after their time. How many characters who were next in line got passed over?

Who else should I be looking at exactly? Genuine question. The absence of some of the glaring examples like Ridley were explained to us in detail before finally switching up and making it work. The series that people tended to suggest Sakurai was biased against were DK and Metroid, to which Ultimate directly responded. Maybe nowadays Zelda is the most frustrating example? But that series has supplemental content in spades, from stages to music to ATs etc. I think it would be difficult to make the case that Sakurai is biased toward Zelda, although we can question his personal philosophy on these characters.

Sakurai's characters on the roster are Kirby, Meta Knight, Dedede, Pit and Palutena. I'm not counting Dark Pit because he probably took like a weekend to implement... we're not going to die on this hill over echo fighters. These seem like pretty fair lineups for these series, they highlight their most important players, and all of them were highly requested. It's not like we piled on Marx and Viridi too (although I wish we did).

You do have a series like Fire Emblem that is often cited as an example of Sakurai bias, but the state of things is easily explained by Fire Emblem's game to game progression and the existence of Everyone is Here, which required them all to be back. Corrin is the most egregious one and apparently it was the rest of the team that wanted them, not Sakurai. Byleth was chosen by Nintendo. It wasn't really seen as an issue until Smash 4 DLC.

If the conflict is which characters were specifically the ones chosen, then that is quite literally impossible to decide without "bias". If I directed Smash, I would have my own biases. I like avatar characters less, I don't care if a character has only appeared in one game. I think Ridley could have worked sooner and frankly I don't care a whole lot about Fire Emblem. This perspective is going to be totally different no matter who's in charge. So nobody is trying to argue the man is flawless and without his own perspective - I can certainly disagree with Sakurai over some decisions, but it's not like I think it's possible to replace him with a robot of a director who makes all the right choices all the time. I'm willing to say Sakurai spreads the love a lot better then most other directors would, and has the freedom to be more out there with his choices instead of following a play by play of who the most important and marketable Nintendo characters at a given time may be. "Next in line" isn't really a tangible or objective thing.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I dunno, I felt they did a good job at making it ridiculous for chaos. Whether you split off into another area(as noted by another user), or just grouped together.

Palutena's Temple is the only one that feels a tad big, but I get why it's there. I don't do 8-Player Smash often, but I really do enjoy it on large stages since it's so damn silly. The issue isn't the stage so much as there's no good way to make sure players have split screens focused on them to prevent it from being hard to see. Which isn't a strict issue with its design, so much as it's great for chaos, bad for anything else. Temple and GCO don't have this issue, though. They're not that big.

Maybe it's just the people I play with every once in a blue moon, but I've never had a chaotic game on Palutena's or GCO. I've had plenty of games on them that have gone to time and plenty of games that end up being boring as **** with two players left who no longer wish to engage each other and just kinda run around, so my perception on these stages has been incredibly soured over time, as it was with Temple with a childhood spent fighting my brother who loved to run away at every possible opportunity.

I also just really don't like Palutena's Temple as a stage in general because at least GCO still feels like a Kirby stage. Outside of the Palutena statue on the right side of Palutena's, nothing about it feels Kid Icarus to me. It feels like someone made a really big Stage Builder stage, slapped a Skyworld backdrop on it, and then it was someone else's job to make it not LOOK like a Stage Builder stage, but they forgot to change how it feels to play on it.

I also don't really like Skyworld, so the only Kid Icarus stage I actually like is Reset Bomb Forest.

 

[Undella2]

Personally, regarding characters that might be cut, I think that Wolf has a good chance of not being in the next game due to Star Fox, uh, struggling in recent years, along with the fact he was already cut in Smash 4.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Hi-Fi Rush and its studio has been revived and it's now third party.

Krafton (a South Korean Publisher) announced that it has taken over Tango Gameworks, welcoming all employees back.

They plan on reviving and expanding the Hi-Fi Rush IP which they now own. https://t.co/mbabs4M0Pd pic.twitter.com/rx2rCfpx2H

— Stealth (@Stealth40k) August 12, 2024

I guess Chai might be coming to the next Smash Bros game?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

A greater amount of platforms can only help Hi-Fi Rush. While PC gaming is growing in Japan, a release on the Switch 2 could expose it to a big audience there, not to mention Switch owners in the West that don't have Xbox consoles or do Steam that much.

 

[AreJay25]

Hi-Fi Rush and its studio has been revived and it's now third party.

Krafton (a South Korean Publisher) announced that it has taken over Tango Gameworks, welcoming all employees back.

They plan on reviving and expanding the Hi-Fi Rush IP which they now own. https://t.co/mbabs4M0Pd pic.twitter.com/rx2rCfpx2H

— Stealth (@Stealth40k) August 12, 2024

I guess Chai might be coming to the next Smash Bros game?

This shouldn't have had to happen in the first place but wow that's fantastic news. Easily one of the most mind boggling decisions of the year getting semi-reversed is cool to see.

As for Chai showing up, well... let's wait on that Switch port first, I guess lol.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So basically everyone from Captain N made it into Smash finally. Or are we missing any that showed up once (remember the elecman episode well he was an AT!)

You're missing plenty of one-shot characters.

But for recurring characters, King Hippo and Eggplant Wizard are just Spirits.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Since I talked about Palutena's Temple a little bit and it's on my mind now, I'm just gonna put my stage thoughts here, even if they might be a tiny bit unorthodox.

I would like very much (even if it's unlikely) for the next Smash to have almost entirely new stages and for us to drop the Brawl/Smash 4 ones. I was fine with Ultimate bringing a lot of stages back since it was the big celebratory "Everyone is Here" game, so almost every stage from the series coming back is fine, but I'm getting kinda tired of the Brawl stages especially since I've been playing on them for like 15 years (and the returning Melee stages that are in Brawl have been playable for like 23 years in some cases like Temple) lol

Basically I'd like a ratio more like Brawl's where almost everything is new stage-wise, and there's a separate select screen for some of the new ones from Ultimate, like New Donk City, Great Plateau Tower, Moray Towers, Garreg Mach Monastery, Cloud Sea of Alrest, and Spring Stadium (basically all the first party ones), and maybe a few of the third party ones if their characters return (like Dracula's Castle or Mementos for instance).

 

[ScrubReborn]

Personally, regarding characters that might be cut, I think that Wolf has a good chance of not being in the next game due to Star Fox, uh, struggling in recent years, along with the fact he was already cut in Smash 4.

I feel like his best chance is if Sakurai decides he really likes wolves and prioritizes him as Smash 6's secondary Star Fox rep. Precedent suggests he won't, but after his glowing reception in Ultimate, I guess there's a chance. Otherwise, he's fried. Whoever Star Fox Rep #3 is - finger lickin' fried. There's no way Star Fox is gonna be priority enough to keep all three reps in a trimdown. Not in the state it's in.

Hell, this might be controversial, but while we talkin' Star Fox, I feel like it's worth questioning if it'll keep multiple reps in a trimdown at all. Remember my feelings on Palutena? I feel the same way on Star Fox Rep #2 (assume Falco for the sake of the argument). I imagine they'll try to keep a second rep to sate the fans, but as a secondary smaller rep character, he'll naturally fall towards the middle-low end of priority and be a "if we have time" thing. Which, I think they most likely would, but I can see some scenarios where, well, they don't.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So basically everyone from Captain N made it into Smash finally. Or are we missing any that showed up once (remember the elecman episode well he was an AT!)

There's a fair amount of minor characters not having any kind of appearance. Dragonlord, for instance. Or Baiyou Billy. Generally, a ton won't show up. Among the more important ones? Everybody's shown up in some way. Spirits, Trophies, Stickers, Playable, AT's. We've got DK(including his giant form that's technically Cranky), Medusa, Simon, Palutena(depending if Lana was based upon her or not. They have a lot of similarities to them), Link, Zelda, Ganon(via his Zelda 1 design, which was in Captain N specifically), Eggplant Wizard, King Hippo, Dr. Wily, Pit, MegaMan, Roll(who MegaGirl was clearly based around), multiple Robot Masters(though not all? I have to relook at it), Ridley, Kraid, Mother Brain(in her container, which is more accurate to the show), Dracula, Alucard(hilariously his newer design from games was changed to have some similarities to Captain N, quite coincidentally).

But yeah, almost everything of note is here. Duke and Kevin obviously were never going to appear, even as a cameo(but to be fair, they were never in an actual video game beforehand. It doesn't matter what their origins are when Nintendo owns them, but having zero game cameos? That flies in the face of the point of a video game celebration. Tons of non-game 3rd party characters do have video game appearances, so effectively make more sense to exist in a video game crossover. Not saying they should either).

 

[Opossum]

Honestly I'd be surprised if Palutena doesn't come back. She's prominent in both Smash's advertising and competitively as a fairly popular pick-up-and-play character, is easily the second most important character in Kid Icarus as a whole, doesn't have any crazy things making her hard to develop, and is a female character in a fighting game series with, infamously, pretty atrocious gender balance.

I don't see her leaving unless the next game has a roster that's literally Brawl sized, and even then I could see her sneak in.

 

[Arcanir]

...High priority? Middle priority, I could see the argument, but "high priority" is like, Link or Mario or Inkling Kid or whoever. Characters that you just could not have Smash without. That is not Palutena. I'm not gonna deny her merit but you can easily have a Smash game without her. Pit could have an argument for high priority but not Palutena. There's at least 20 characters you definitely need to include before her.

You're nitpicking at words here. Characters like Mario I would consider mainstays, or main priority, someone who would never leave the roster under any circumstances. You can't have a Smash game without them so they'll always be first in line. She's not that, which is why I said she'd be at risk in an extreme case, but she's a character I would say they're more likely to try and keep because her traits lend well to that category. If push comes to shove, yes she could get cut, but I feel that's something that would happen if we got many cuts in the next game.

But in the end, this is just an argument of how we're defining terminology.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Hi-Fi Rush and its studio has been revived and it's now third party.

Krafton (a South Korean Publisher) announced that it has taken over Tango Gameworks, welcoming all employees back.

They plan on reviving and expanding the Hi-Fi Rush IP which they now own. https://t.co/mbabs4M0Pd pic.twitter.com/rx2rCfpx2H

— Stealth (@Stealth40k) August 12, 2024

I guess Chai might be coming to the next Smash Bros game?

I don't think Chai is Smash Bros status yet but regardless this is great news! I hope the pillows of Microsoft's CEOs are warm on both ends for as long as they're in business. Absolute baffling to see them axe this studio, it's awesome to see Tango getting a second chance.

Is it right to tell Sakurai how to handle the series he created?

If someone abandons the series they created for two decades, I think it's alright to push back against their decisions at least a little bit... because unless the series was dormant (which it isn't, it could be so much further than the truth honestly), it's not exactly the same series the creator left since so much new games and materials have been added.

In my experience as a creative, you can't expect to get the best ideas out if you don't have someone else in the room to bounce them off of, whether they add to them or fight against them. There's a lot of genuinely great feedback people can give that can flesh out concepts to their fullest potential, and when it's absent you get an absolute deluge of Super Star content as your most significant form of representation.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It really is strange just how many people act like Palutena wasn't one of the most popular requests for Smash 4 and was widely praised.

Is it that she aged poorly as an addiction? Do people just not know about her original games? Are people too young to see her in her prime?

Why the massive flip flop?

 

[RileyXY1]

It really is strange just how many people act like Palutena wasn't one of the most popular requests for Smash 4 and was widely praised.

Is it that she aged poorly as an addiction? Do people just not know about her original games? Are people too young to see her in her prime?

Why the massive flip flop?

It's mostly the expectation that the next game is going to be a massive roster reduction with a crapton of cuts. That's honestly what I expect anyways.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

It really is strange just how many people act like Palutena wasn't one of the most popular requests for Smash 4 and was widely praised.

Is it that she aged poorly as an addition? Do people just not know about her original games? Are people too young to see her in her prime?

Why the massive flip flop?

I genuinely think it might just be because it's been a decade since Uprising and there's no guarantee of anything else Kid Icarus related happening down the line.

Uprising came out in 2012, so she was very fresh in everyone's mind when Smash 4 was revealed at E3 2013, and Pit being part of the original group of reveals alongside the mainstays like Mario, DK, and Pikachu in that first trailer also certainly helped. Now it's been a decade, we're an entire system lifespan removed from those days, and the 3DS eshop is dead, so anyone who wants to experience Uprising has to go secondhand or through emulation for the game she's almost entirely based on (because let's be honest, until Uprising Palutena was basically a damsel in distress/Pit's Final Smash in Brawl lol)

She's also from a much smaller series than most characters since Kid Icarus only has 3 games.

Now I don't think those factors really matter and Palutena has a great shot to come back, but I can sorta understand where people are coming from since Kid Icarus's future is very up in the air despite Uprising's success.

 

[Opossum]

It's mostly the expectation that the next game is going to be a massive roster reduction with a crapton of cuts. That's honestly what I expect anyways.

The issue is I have no idea what you are defining as massive. Most people don't think the next game will be any smaller than Smash 4 was post-DLC. Palutena not being on a roster of that size would be weird, not the reverse.

 

[Noipoi]

Re: Palutena

I do think she’s on the chopping block beyond the obvious cuts, such as legacy clones, a few retro picks, and the third parties with licensing issues.

But I also think she could be one of the first veterans back. She sits comfortably with and in my opinion as easy veterans to bring back as DLC, but just expendable enough at this point in time to be lower priority for the base game.

If they ever cut K Rool for any reason I will ****ing

CRY

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

That's why I think the most productive conversation is to talk stages and Assist Trophies. We all know that Great Cave Offensive and GB Dream Land were pretty silly picks in juxtaposition with the recent developments the series had made. A Nightmare AT that does nothing but make the screen dark is lame. Kirby's music could be better, but it feels like they've at least attempted to mend their shortcomings here. If we got a couple modern stages, like Lor Starcutter, and an AT for Magolor or something then this conversation would look much different.

Which is to say I understand why people are so sore about it, but it really has nothing to do with Bandana Dee. Once we start nitpicking the roster about it, it feels like less of a problem. I'd love a couple more Kirby characters too but Kirby / Dedede / Meta Knight is a perfectly fair lineup for Brawl -> Ultimate.

Hence why I wish Bandana Dee wouldn't be touted as the end-all-be-all of Kirby inclusions. Even in the context of his inclusion vouching for modern titles, I feel there are tons of holes that would cause Kirby to fall into similar problems that Smash currently displays. The three fighters we have retained are theoretically fine, but not within the hole in Smash it's dug itself into. We'd need more assist trophies, a couple more stages (or a replacement for GCO) and much better reference points to really make the most of Kirby. Bandana Dee could solve this partially, but to treat his inclusion as an absolute endgoal is missing crucial details.

 

[Undella2]

Actually, regarding D.K., what are the chances of them cutting Diddy instead of King K. Rool (in the interest of keeping the series' villain in instead of a secondary protagonist) in the event a character from that series is taken out?

 

[Arcanir]

It really is strange just how many people act like Palutena wasn't one of the most popular requests for Smash 4 and was widely praised.

Is it that she aged poorly as an addiction? Do people just not know about her original games? Are people too young to see her in her prime?

Why the massive flip flop?

There's a couple things it could be.

The 'Sakurai is bias' bit people pulled back in Smash 4 may've played a role. Back when it first released a lot of fans cried fowl when she and Dark Pit got in and KI had a large amount of content in the game that was ported over from Uprising. A lot of fans back then were already trying to dismiss her demand and rewrite history to pretend she was a bias pick, and it somehow may've stuck.

Another potential reason is that, yeah, KI went back into dormancy and we're now about a decade out from Smash 4's release. Many fans may not be aware of her high popularity and demand from the pre-release period or how well received both her and Uprising were at that time, so they may be falsely justifying her inclusion as bias without knowing the full story.

Regardless, it's one of the weirdest cases of character reception changing dramatically in the fandom.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Actually, regarding D.K., what are the chances of them cutting Diddy instead of King K. Rool (in the interest of keeping the series' villain in instead of a secondary protagonist) in the event a character from that series is taken out?

Diddy is one of the characters I consider absolutely safe.

Or at least, he better be. If we ever get to the point of cutting Diddy, Smash has gone too far.

 

[PeridotGX]

It really is strange just how many people act like Palutena wasn't one of the most popular requests for Smash 4 and was widely praised.

Is it that she aged poorly as an addiction? Do people just not know about her original games? Are people too young to see her in her prime?

Why the massive flip flop?

Palutena was a pretty good inclusion in Four. I wouldn't even say she aged poorly. It's just that Kid Icarus is pretty irrelevant in 2024, and assuming that doesn't change, having two unique Kid Icarus characters feels kinda silly

 

[Louie G.]

Actually, regarding D.K., what are the chances of them cutting Diddy instead of King K. Rool (in the interest of keeping the series' villain in instead of a secondary protagonist) in the event a character from that series is taken out?

Virtually zero. I don't think K. Rool is in that much danger to begin with, but Diddy Kong is absolutely staying over him if they needed to narrow things down. I feel like people underestimate how important and still prominently used he is. Like yeah, obviously less than the first member of the crew, but when DKC comes up he is always there. Here's the most recent example, the Universal park attraction.

Also since you said in the interest of keeping the villain... that isn't the precedent Smash has set. There's a reason Diddy was added first, I feel. Note that Falco stayed over Wolf also. Routine has kind of convinced me Smash prioritizes the secondary protag over the antagonist on most relevant occasions.

 

[Laniv]

Is Palutena in any real danger?

I'm confident Pit is safe and Dark Pit is a different set of circumstances.

Palutena is a character who was one of the most requested characters for Smash 4 and still remains a popular character to this day. She's pretty safe.

As an aside, I did do the poll! Very nice choices in there

 

[SPEN18]

On Palutena, it definitely shouldn't be discounted that she's a secondary character from a smaller and inactive series. But she's definitely a level above a pretty decent chunk of much easier cuts. I have her well beneath the tier of locks but not in absolute peril, as a character I could see going either way.

And yeah, I don't think it's even controversial to guess that Star Fox might get reduced to one character. Falco is one who I feel is overrated by the community. I think he gets way too much credit from being around since Melee and having history in the competitive scene when, if you look past that, he's a derivative sidekick type from a fading franchise. I could even see Wolf outranking him these days, and Wolf is on thin ice himself.

As for the chances of KRool being ranked over Diddy...yeah that's essentially zero. I don't see any scenario in which Diddy is cut. Boiling it down to "prioritizing the villain over a secondary protagonist" would be a complete inaccuracy here, because Diddy is easily more important overall, and it's not even a contest.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Actually, regarding D.K., what are the chances of them cutting Diddy instead of King K. Rool (in the interest of keeping the series' villain in instead of a secondary protagonist) in the event a character from that series is taken out?

Not gonna happen, ever. Diddy was one of the highest requested characters for Brawl. The fact this is even thought of while Diddy is still appearing in every DK game and ever so often a Mario sport or even Party game is just weird to me. Diddy isn't going anywhere. I doubt K.Rool is either, but Diddy wouldn't ever be cut before him. Even on a 30 character roster we'd see Diddy.

 

[SharkLord]

Hi-Fi Rush and its studio has been revived and it's now third party.

Krafton (a South Korean Publisher) announced that it has taken over Tango Gameworks, welcoming all employees back.

They plan on reviving and expanding the Hi-Fi Rush IP which they now own. https://t.co/mbabs4M0Pd pic.twitter.com/rx2rCfpx2H

— Stealth (@Stealth40k) August 12, 2024

I guess Chai might be coming to the next Smash Bros game?

In a year when creatives have been laid off en masse and numerous promising pieces of media have been canned, it's great seeing Tango get the second chance they deserve.

Honestly I'd be over the moon for Chai, but it's hard to make a call until we see that fabled Switch port (Or more likely a Switch 2 port). If I remember correctly leaks found exclusive Switch and PlayStation shirts in Hi-Fi's files, so there was likely a plan for a Switch port, but that hasn't turned up yet. It might be because of the Switch's different hardware making the port take longer to make, or the Switch just not being strong enough to run the game well, so the devs decided to wait until next system. Or maybe Hi-Fi can run on the Switch just fine, but they're holding off regardless so they can drop it during the big opening push for the Switch 2.
I don't think being on Nintendo systems is an absolute necessity for a fighter, but it's usually a good indication of the negotiations between companies. In this case, I think it might be especially important for Chai, since his series just traded hands, which would likely complicate any sort of negotiations with Nintendo (For a Switch port OR the hypothetical Smash 6).

As for Chai's chances beyond the buyout, Hi-Fi Rush was a surprise hit that got quite a bit of praise, so Nintendo or Sakurai might want to capitalize on this successful new IP; On the other hand, I don't think Nintendo and Krafton are really that close in terms of corporate relations, so that would probably leave a hurdle for Chai. Arguably, he might have had better chances under Microsoft, thanks to Nintendo and MS's close relations. Granted, they might prioritize other Microsoft characters before Chai, but we got Snake back and Simon and Richter added in Ultimate's base game all at once. I don't think the "one character per company" assumption for content waves is a hard and fast rule.

Regardless of likelihood, Hi-Fi Rush is one of the most stylized and downright fun games I've played in a long time and I think Chai would be awesome to see. Hi-Fi's essentially a stylish action game, and Chai has a sizeable movelist from his guitar swings and magnetic powers, plus the ability to summon his friends in combat. And, of course, the rhythm mechanics, which would probably show up in some form is Chai was added. You could easily make a fun and unique moveset for Chai.