Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pokemon debuted on the Game Boy, and also was on the GBA. I don't know if any others are missing, though.

 

[Ivander]

A bit of a fun fact to add to Swamp's post: If you include character swap costumes then the Wii U and GBA's situation slightly improves as they get and respectively. The DS however still remains at one as Lucario is the only character, costume or not, that debuted on the console.

You know the DS' situation is dire if the Wii U is beating it.

So if we're including costume swaps, then if we put in Ray from Custom Robo into Smash and make X-Ray, Ray 01 and Ray MKIII costumes for Ray, we'll get an extra N64, Gamecube, GBA and NDS Rep.

 

[DKing]

Just out of curiocity, I tried to make a list of franchises that appeared on the Game Boy and it's sequels just to see how it shakes out for characters and here's what I came up with (Bold is, to my knowledge, a series debut):

Spoiler

Game Boy	Game Boy Color	Game Bow Advance
Pokémon	Super Mario	Super Mario
Kirby	The Legend of Zelda	Yoshi
Advance Wars	Pokémon	Magical Starsign
Super Mario	Wario Land/WarioWare	Earthbound
The Legend of Zelda	Card Hero	Golden Sun
Donkey Kong	Balloon Fight	Kururin
Sports	Donkey Kong	Kirby
F-1 Race	Game & Watch	Drill Dozer
Metroid		Advance Wars
Wario Land/WarioWare		Fire Emblem
Alleyway		Wario Land/WarioWare
Solar Striker		F-Zero
Balloon Fight		Donkey Kong
Radar Mission		Excitebike
Game & Watch		Ice Climber
Kid Icarus		Metroid
Mole Mania		Balloon Fight
Wave Race		Clu Clu Land
Yoshi		Kid Icarus
		Shin Onigashima
		Rhythm Heaven
		Custom Robo
		The Legendary Starfy

Obviously the big franchises (Pokémon, Kirby, Mario, etc.) got characters, and from day one. WarioWare is the only series that debuted on these consoles that got a character. Golden Sun, Kururin, Drill Dozer, and The Legendary Starfy all got Assist Trophies in Super Smash Bros. Brawl (likely because they were still fairly fresh), but Isaac and Starfy are the only characters that have stuck around till today, and Isaac was even cut once.

I'm not really sure I have any opinion on this. It's just interesting.

Tetris debuted on the gameboy right? Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

This is probably an extremely unpopular opinion, but if I had the chance, I would've added Starfy in Lucas's place for Brawl.
Come to think of it, it's kind of messed up that, not counting Zero Suit Samus (who I don't think will be around much longer if cuts come back), the only GBA debuts in the entire Smash series have been derivatives of other fighters. Roy has the excuse of being a last-minute bonus addition, but it's crazy that Lucas has consistently outprioritized several other GBA debuts like Advance Wars, Golden Sun, and Starfy (and also Rhythm Tengoku, but that game was a year away when Brawl's roster was finalized). All those other series continued past the GBA, some would have worldwide releases as well, and yet the Japanese-only intended conclusion to Itoi's series won out both for Brawl and for 3DS/Wii U.
I am aware that Sakurai didn't know Mother 3 was intended to be Japan-only back in late 2005, but I'd still imagine he would be aware that Itoi intended to move on from Mother after it was done.

This is why Ace Attorney should join smash

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just for fun, here are the third party characters who debuted on Nintendo consoles...



That's it. All the rest debuted on other hardware.



Really puts things into perspective. A lot of these characters with strong Nintendo connections didn't get them on their first debut.

 

[Borskaboska]

Honestly, I don't even think are bad choices for the GBA.

It's just that there should be a lot more GBA characters. The GBA was a time where so many new franchises found life. To have our only GBA characters be from already existing series is a bit sad. But, that's not a bad number honestly.

Aside from the NES and SNES and N64, who have dozens of characters, most recent consoles only have a handful of characters that debut from them.

GBA:
NGC:
DS:
Wii:
3DS:
Wii U:
Switch:

Most only have a few, and the 3DS has an almost unnatural amount.
The DS absolutely got it worst though. Poor is all alone and the DS is a hugely successful console. The Wii U may suffer a similar fate with but at least that console is widely known to be a failure.

Seeing this layed out makes me want to see what characters could be added from each console to get them to match the 3DS's count.
GBA (5): Isaac, Andy, Starfy, Gardivour, Phoenix Wright
GCN (3): King Boo, Chibi Robo, Midna
DS (7): Daroach, The protag from Rune Factory, Cooking Mama, Landsknecht from Etrian Odyssey, Maxwell Scribblenauts, Serperior, Professor Layton
Wii (5 according to your list, though I feel like the Miis would also count as Wii reps): Captain Toad, Amaterasu, Magalor, Wii Play Tank, Travis Touchdown
Wii U (7): Monita, Shovel Knight, Sidon, Plasm Wraith, Elma from Xenoblade X, Squid Sisters, Dr Luigi.
Switch (4): Officer Howard, Elma from Xenoblade 3, Nahobino, Raven Beak

 

[DarthEnderX]

Tetris debuted on the gameboy right? Correct me if I am wrong.

I mean, it started as a Soviet computer game.

But even on Nintendo, the Tengen version came to NES game first.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Okay everyone! Good news.

I have created a massive poll for first party newcomers! I have been working on this or months and I would love for you to give your opinions. Be warned, its kind of long.

Here is the poll!

And here is a thread with more info. Please visit that too! I'll need volunteers to help spread this thing. I'm hoping for 500 unique voters.

Happy trails.

 

[Undella2]

Regardless of who ends up added/kept for the next game, I hope Mega Man stays around even if for no reason other than to get yet another shot of Mega Man's final smash in one of the next game's big hype trailers.

It's better every time. And I haven't even played a Mega Man game.

 

[Speed Weed]

Of course, that honestly makes me realize how Ness could've easily been left behind if Smash was done by any other Nintendo devteam besides probably Game Freak or APE itself. Crazy, that.

Well, to be fair, my conversation started with me talking about what I would've done differently with Brawl. I get the angle of doing it to honor Itoi for wrapping up a series the way he wanted, I guess it just feels strange since Lucas is the odd one out amongst Smash's "picked before their game came out" lineup, being from a series that was still pretty underground back in the early 00s, compared to Fire Emblem, which was a consistent trucker in Japan, and...well, Pokemon. Though I do feel that I can still comment on how it was a bit strange that Sakurai was intending to outright replace Ness with him in Melee, since there is no indication that anyone else in 64 was also drafted to be cycled out for someone new. Not even Jigglypuff, who I could have seen being replaced with, say, Marill or Meowth.

Not that this invalidates the general points being made here, but one very important bit of context that I feel goes unsaid oftentimes is that, while certainly not as big as other Nintendo properties of the time, Mother was already a very popular and well-respected series in Japan. IMO there's more to its heavy presence in Smash than HAL having made the games, and I honestly can see Sakurai going for a pick like that from a series that already had plenty of acclaim to its name and was headed by a very famous figure - even if, again, it wasn't as big or consistent as others.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Just for fun, here are the third party characters who debuted on Nintendo consoles...



That's it. All the rest debuted on other hardware.



Really puts things into perspective. A lot of these characters with strong Nintendo connections didn't get them on their first debut.

Eleven technically did debut on Nintendo hardware as the 3DS version of DQXI released simultaneously with the PS4 version in Japan.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Eleven technically did debut on Nintendo hardware as the 3DS version of DQXI released simultaneously with the PS4 version in Japan.

I will make that correction then.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Does it really matter which Dragon Quest protagonists had their appearance where? I think an argument could be made cause the first Dragon Quest was on Nintendo, the while umbrella character called Hero could fit as a character that started out on Nintendo.

I did fill in the poll btw. Nice initiative !

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I did fill in the poll btw. Nice initiative !

Thank you. I want to get as many unique results as possible. So far, we have 23 voters and considering its the middle of the night in the USA and the poll was released at night, I think that's pretty good.

Hopefully I'll have a lot more results when I wake up tomorrow. I plan to spread it farther then.

But I really do need help when it comes to spreading this. If its only me, we'll never get enough results. I'm hoping for 500 to start with.

 

[robot067]

I'd definitely like to see a new game over a port of Ultimate, and a full on reboot if possible. In particular for a change to the stage selection. There are so many redundant stages like Kongo Jungle, Jungle Japes, and Kongo Falls or the ridiculous amount of Mario stages that are just generic areas vaguely based on level 1-1 from their respective games. The fact that Sakurai decided to just make a forgettable 'Mario Galaxy' stage instead of making one based on the Comet Observatory still makes me groan nearly ten years later (this just made me realize Sm4sh is going to turn ten this year, holy ****). And don't get me started on Kirby. Green Greens is same stage as Dream Land with a more annoying layout. Then a gameboy version of Green Greens, seriously!? Oh god and Great Cave Offensive, pukes.

Really I'd like to see a totally different approach to stage choices in general. These generic stages that seem to try to represent the entire game they're from while also sticking to the first hour of the game need to go. Sometimes it feels like the stages are based on more on the box art than the actual game. Go for the most memorable locations from these games instead that people who've played the games will recognize. Ultimate's DLC has gone more in this direction. Northern Cave, Mementos, and Hollow Bastion are exactly what I want to see. They are all specific locations and very memorable (regardless of your feelings on Mementos in P5 it's definitely memorable ). I'd like to see older franchises' get new stages more in line with this philosophy. Of course, not all the older stages are as bad as the examples above. Fountain of Dreams, Peach's Castle, and Bridge of Eldin are great stages and notably are all specific locations very important to the story of their respective games. But seriously, where the **** is Gangplank Galleon!!!!

Okay everyone! Good news.

I have created a massive poll for first party newcomers! I have been working on this or months and I would love for you to give your opinions. Be warned, its kind of long.

Here is the poll!

And here is a thread with more info. Please visit that too! I'll need volunteers to help spread this thing. I'm hoping for 500 unique voters.

Happy trails.

I filled it out! Excited to see what the results look like.

 

[fogbadge]

Okay everyone! Good news.

I have created a massive poll for first party newcomers! I have been working on this or months and I would love for you to give your opinions. Be warned, its kind of long.

Here is the poll!

And here is a thread with more info. Please visit that too! I'll need volunteers to help spread this thing. I'm hoping for 500 unique voters.

Happy trails.

I'll fill it in. hope i don't skew your results to much

great selection of characters btw

 

[DKing]

Okay everyone! Good news.

I have created a massive poll for first party newcomers! I have been working on this or months and I would love for you to give your opinions. Be warned, its kind of long.

Here is the poll!

And here is a thread with more info. Please visit that too! I'll need volunteers to help spread this thing. I'm hoping for 500 unique voters.

Happy trails.

I fill the poll and I appreciate your effort.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Tetris debuted on the gameboy right? Correct me if I am wrong.

Without fact checking myself, I'm fairly certain it's on the NES, but I should have specified I was only looking at Nintendo franchises, and Tetris definitely isn't that.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Tetris debuted on the gameboy right? Correct me if I am wrong.

In terms of actually playing Tetris, it started on various computers (the Electronika 60 in Russia, IBM PC in various other regions, numerous home computers in Britain), the arcades (Sega and Atari Games versions) and then the first home console version with the Famicom in 1988. Game Boy was the first portable variation though.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Okay everyone! Good news.

I have created a massive poll for first party newcomers! I have been working on this or months and I would love for you to give your opinions. Be warned, its kind of long.

Here is the poll!

And here is a thread with more info. Please visit that too! I'll need volunteers to help spread this thing. I'm hoping for 500 unique voters.

Happy trails.

Submitted my stance on the poll. I actually had extreme difficulty discovering what characters were missing, because you covered so much ground! The only omissions I could find that were notable all happened to be Pokémon. The oddest of those exclusions was Espeon, mostly in the presence of Umbreon; but I also prefer the latter to the former, so it's more an observation than it is a complaint. Well done!

 

[Geno Boost]

I'm being unironic when I say Smash should add Nokia Snake.

The game had sequels, there is moveset potential.

well there is something for you its not official smash but still
skip to 11:40

 

[Garteam]

Regardless of who ends up added/kept for the next game, I hope Mega Man stays around even if for no reason other than to get yet another shot of Mega Man's final smash in one of the next game's big hype trailers.

It's better every time. And I haven't even played a Mega Man game.

Mega Man is tied with Fire Emblem for my favourite video game franchise of all time and X is my favourite game character of all time, so I ****ing lost it in the best way possible when we were first shown that final smash over a decade ago. You can just feel the love that Sakurai and the Smash team have for Mega Man's legacy. They really went the extra mile to make the other Mega Men look like full fighters. Smash for Wii U is still the best X has looked in any game, IMO.

I really think Mega Man is the most likely third party after Sonic simply because of how liberal Capcom is with their licensing of Mega Man in Smash. Between the amount of music, assist trophies, spirits, character cameos, and the general attention to detail that Mega Man gets, it's clear that both Capcom and Sakurai really like having Mega Man in Smash. Capcom letting Ridley murder Mega Man is emblematic of how they are willing to play ball in a way that most licensors aren't with their IPs. He's not going anywhere. I also think X and Zero are more likely than a lot of people give them credit for.

There's this weird conception that Capcom hates Mega Man and treats it as a red-headed stepchild that was never popular. In reality, Capcom's relationship with Mega Man is a lot more complicated. Franchises that are actively hated by their corporate owners don't get frequent re-releases, crossover DLC, merchandise, and corporate mascot status. It more comes down to the C-suite not knowing how to manage a franchise with so many sub-series and internal developers being intimidated by the standard of quality that comes with the Mega Man name. Inafune is a narcissist who is quick to take credit for other's work, but his real talent was being able to manage a brand with such a fractured identity.

 

[RileyXY1]

Mega Man is tied with Fire Emblem for my favourite video game franchise of all time and X is my favourite game character of all time, so I ****ing lost it in the best way possible when we were first shown that final smash over a decade ago. You can just feel the love that Sakurai and the Smash team have for Mega Man's legacy. They really went the extra mile to make the other Mega Men look like full fighters. Smash for Wii U is still the best X has looked in any game, IMO.

I really think Mega Man is the most likely third party after Sonic simply because of how liberal Capcom is with their licensing of Mega Man in Smash. Between the amount of music, assist trophies, spirits, character cameos, and the general attention to detail that Mega Man gets, it's clear that both Capcom and Sakurai really like having Mega Man in Smash. Capcom letting Ridley murder Mega Man is emblematic of how they are willing to play ball in a way that most licensors aren't with their IPs. He's not going anywhere. I also think X and Zero are more likely than a lot of people give them credit for.

There's this weird conception that Capcom hates Mega Man and treats it as a red-headed stepchild that was never popular. In reality, Capcom's relationship with Mega Man is a lot more complicated. Franchises that are actively hated by their corporate owners don't get frequent re-releases, crossover DLC, merchandise, and corporate mascot status. It more comes down to the C-suite not knowing how to manage a franchise with so many sub-series and internal developers being intimidated by the standard of quality that comes with the Mega Man name. Inafune is a narcissist who is quick to take credit for other's work, but his real talent was being able to manage a brand with such a fractured identity.

I think Ryu is also likely to come back for the same reasons. Considering how many crossovers he's involved with it's probably very easy to get the rights to Street Fighter. Also Pac-Man, because his creators are the ones developing the game in the first place.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think Ryu is also likely to come back for the same reasons. Considering how many crossovers he's involved with it's probably very easy to get the rights to Street Fighter. Also Pac-Man, because his creators are the ones developing the game in the first place.

While this doesn't mean Namco isn't still helping, it does look like they're forming a dedicated team for Super Smash Bros. I don't think it hurts Pac-Man's chances either way, but it is worth noting.

As far as the Capcom characters, my main thing is just roster space. I dunno where priorities lie and which Capcom characters are going to be more of a priority.

 

[Garteam]

I think Ryu is also likely to come back for the same reasons. Considering how many crossovers he's involved with it's probably very easy to get the rights to Street Fighter. Also Pac-Man, because his creators are the ones developing the game in the first place.

I agree with this. You could add Bayonetta to this because Platinum is very easy to work with generally and Nintendo already owns IP for Bayonetta 2 and 3. It's just a matter of licensing Bayonetta 1 and the character herself.

We're basically guaranteed , , , , and . I'd also say we're guaranteed at least one new third party, too.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think Mega Man is simply in the slightly awkward position of being a legacy franchise at Capcom that is respected. but that without a dedicated internal team pushing for it and it being a more modest game franchise with its sales numbers in comparison to RE, MH, and SF, it ends up lacking the same kind of consistent releases. I'm reminded a bit of DK at Nintendo and Castlevania at Konami; IP's that are active in everything (re-releases, media cameos, crossovers) except actual new games. Mega Man getting new comics from Udon without any new gaming entries being announced definitely makes it feel similar in that regard.

It does mean good things for Smash as that position at least really lends itself to further content in SSB sequels.

 

[Garteam]

As far as the Capcom characters, my main thing is just roster space. I dunno where priorities lie and which Capcom characters are going to be more of a priority.

There are three Capcom characters in Smash right now. Even you wanted to add another Capcom fighter on top of that, that's four characters in a roster of at least. It'd take a massive overhauling of Smash itself or Capcom's representation in Smash (e.g. we get 3 Capcom newcomers) for Mega Man or Ryu to be at any real risk.

Ken may be gone because he's a semi-clone, but even he's relatively safe IMO. He's one of the more popular and notable characters that has a derivative moveset.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know what would be a cool character conversation? Fox and Captain Falcon discussing James McCloud. Captain Falcon asks about potential relations due to both having the same last name and sporting similar looks, and from there they have an earnest conversation about the characters before slowly realizing that they're talking about two different people.

For Smash, I'd probably end the conversation on that joke, but in a larger story you could extend it to cover multiversal topics like characters that appear in multiple universes and how cool or weird that is.

 

[RileyXY1]

You know what would be a cool character conversation? Fox and Captain Falcon discussing James McCloud. Captain Falcon asks about potential relations due to both having the same last name and sporting similar looks, and from there they have an earnest conversation about the characters before slowly realizing that they're talking about two different people.

For Smash, I'd probably end the conversation on that joke, but in a larger story you could extend it to cover multiversal topics like characters that appear in multiple universes and how cool or weird that is.

I'm hoping there would be character conversations in the next single player campaign mode, which I believe will be like NASB2's.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Regardless of who ends up added/kept for the next game, I hope Mega Man stays around even if for no reason other than to get yet another shot of Mega Man's final smash in one of the next game's big hype trailers.

It's better every time. And I haven't even played a Mega Man game.

Im sure Megaman will be like Sonic in that he's just going to be a part of smash from now on.

Capcom has always been a company happy to do collabs with others so anything from them is easy to license and Megaman is just too iconic of a series to let go.

 

[toonito]

I think Ryu is also likely to come back for the same reasons. Considering how many crossovers he's involved with it's probably very easy to get the rights to Street Fighter. Also Pac-Man, because his creators are the ones developing the game in the first place.

I'd go as far as saying Ryu is likely to be a permanent mainstay for Smash since he represents the genre Smash spun off from and is a unique archetype in Smash. Not only that he and Chun-Li are two of Capcom's main crossover representatives.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Oh Yeah!!
Let's have a discussion about "Capcom's True Mascot".
Very underrated theme to talk

In all seriousness, Capcom doesn't really need a definitive company mascot, they already have a large amount of iconic franchises with their respective ensemble cast. No need to fight on who's the real mascot.

'...we don't have an "official" mascot. We have a logo, that’s it.[…]'

-Seth Killian, Capcom-Unity forums
2009​

 

[Louie G.]

Mega Man is going absolutely nowhere. Out of every third party in the game he is most frequently treated like family. He’s just chilling with the Nintendo crew in Bowser Jr’s trailer, and he gets to be impaled by Ridley of all things. He was the very last character to be shown in the Everyone is Here montage. In Ultimate, five years after his series debut, he received a massive crop of new arrangements usually reserved for newcomers. He is a character treated with extreme reverence and acknowledgement of just how popular of a request he was.

Ryu is also going nowhere. Since his debut in Smash 4 we have seen two other traditional fighting game characters join the fight and follow the foundation that Ryu helped set in Smash. Even if you disregard the fact that it’s ****ing Ryu, it makes no practical sense to remove what’s essentially the posterboy of an archetype / gameplay style that has been used multiple times now. If you cut him you’re essentially going to be cutting the entire fighting game genre, I can’t see Kazuya or Terry sticking around in that scenario.

They are not in competition for space. The idea that we need to abide by some arbitrary company balance is just false. Mega Man and Ryu are both here on their own individual merit and frankly it doesn’t really even matter where they’re from. They could add characters from both Monster Hunter and Resident Evil and I’d be defending them the same way. Capcom’s propensity for strong characters and massively important, genre defining series is only matched by one company and it’s the one making this game.

So even if we somehow cut down to like, only four third party characters for some reason, Capcom will be half of those characters.

 

[Sucumbio]

So basically everyone from Captain N made it into Smash finally. Or are we missing any that showed up once (remember the elecman episode well he was an AT!)

 

[Noipoi]

So basically everyone from Captain N made it into Smash finally. Or are we missing any that showed up once (remember the elecman episode well he was an AT!)

The living GameBoy

 

[Wonder Smash]

So basically everyone from Captain N made it into Smash finally. Or are we missing any that showed up once (remember the elecman episode well he was an AT!)

There was a ninja in a city at one point in the show, like a certain Tecmo game that came out that same year:

There also a certain Nihon Falcom world was also the center of an episode:

 

[Sucumbio]

The living GameBoy

Yes please! Someone else here wants a Super Scope but I forgor who

 

[Stratos]

There was one character in the Captain N: The Game Master series that made an impression on me years ago and that is Wombatman. I was impressed because he is a character that debuted in this series, when at first I thought he was a video game character that was a parody of Batman. I thought this because I didn't have the episode he appeared in.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is Palutena in any real danger?

I'm confident Pit is safe and Dark Pit is a different set of circumstances.

 

[Sucumbio]

I only kinda worry about anyone who is only in 1 game so far or was cut previously