Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Impa was only actually similar to Sheik... in OOT. By proxy of having taught her how to fight in that form. That's it. Since then, Impa has gained abilities in the canon games and really isn't that similar anymore. HW alone shows a lot of unique stuff, but even without that, she has tons of unique material.

The idea of a semi-clone fits best if HW won't be taken into account. That way you can use something besides the OOT design, but also allow for various abilities in various games while making her stand out. I mean, maybe some abilities will be shared(Impa is still a ninja archtype in canon, after all), but not that much. And even if it was a fair amount, it wouldn't really change her being reasonably unique. Just look at Isabelle. She's a branch of Villager's moveset(in practice. I'm aware she was designed in a way to try and be unique but ended up being similar to Villager), but damn, does she stand out. Albeit, I'd have loved some more Work Project stuff, but still.

 

[Borskaboska]

Sidon in particular is a very beloved character and has been since Wild. His popularity has waned slightly from what I've seen due to the Water Temple in Tears being kind of meh, but I still think he has the popularity to warrant being added. Riju or Tulin are also possible but Sidon having such a prominent role in both Wild and Tears and his popularity give him the edge.

You know, sidon is an interesting pick that I hadn't considered before. He's popular, has a trident, and can use water-based attacks which not many characters on the roster can do. He could trap people in bubbles like Rikuo from Darkstalkers. Plus, if they add sidon they can have the entire zelda cast use their TotK designs.
Considering the guy is 10 feed tall and has a huge trident, he'd probably be another distance-demon type of character like byleth and sephiroth. Not even to mention whatever water projectiles they end up giving the guy.
For some reason, I think it would be cool if one of his moves attached octorok balloons to people.
Yeah I'm coming around on Sidon. My preferred Zelda rep is Guardian, and I don't think they'd add both, so it's pretty tough for me.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I want my Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat, even if it takes Smash Bros. for it to happen.

 

[Gengar84]

I want my Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat, even if it takes Smash Bros. for it to happen.

Same here. Sub-Zero is on my most wanted list. There’s definitely some hurdles that will make that difficult but I feel MK’s global popularity outside Japan might still make it possible. I was a big fan of both series during the SNES but I haven’t played a ton of fighting games since then to be honest. Still, it’s a dream crossover that I’d love to see in some way.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Might be an unpopular opinion but I feel like they would have either Sheik or Impa. Having both just sounds unnecessary to me, honestly. One Sheikah is enough.

Which is why one of them should be an Echo.

Impa was only actually similar to Sheik... in OOT.

Sheik is only in OoT.

 

[Gengar84]

Which is why one of them should be an Echo.

Sheik is only in OoT.

She’s also in Hyrule Warriors (and Smash obviously)

 

[Shinuto]

Wrinkly Kong you mean? She returned as a ghost a couple of times. Tingle is notoriously gone missing, probably after trying to pull off a big scam for Rupees.

I honestly don't expect to ever see Tingle again in a Zelda game. That's why I also don't think he has what it takes to be a newcomer in Smash. If he where selected before, like say Brawl or so, he'd probably still be around. But this character is just hated.

As for the ideal Zelda roster?

+ Impa + Ganon

Optional: * Rauru, Skull Kid / Master Kogha
*Decloned version

Tingle legit seems to unintentionally be as close to a child predator without explicitly being one.

 

[Sucumbio]

Speaking of, are the HW games considered canon by the Zelda devs or is it a separate universe?

 

[Gengar84]

Speaking of, are the HW games considered canon by the Zelda devs or is it a separate universe?

I think Age of Calamity is canon but the original Hyrule Warriors isn’t. Either way, I think spinoff titles should get more attention in Smash. There’s a ton of great content and potential characters from those side games that Smash tends to pass over. Waluigi is exclusively a spinoff character so I don’t see any reason why we can’t see more from other games if we get him.

 

[Mamboo07]

Ignore this

 

[fogbadge]

I think Age of Calamity is canon

it's not

 

[chinkuru]

Tingle legit seems to unintentionally be as close to a child predator without explicitly being one.

No, Tingle looks like a parody of the adult otaku obsessed with video games, manga, anime, ... who refuses to grow up, which is why so many people hate him because they see themselves reflected in his mirror

 

[Gengar84]

it's not

Oh, I thought that they announced it was meant to be canon prior to the release of the game. My mistake then.

 

[fogbadge]

Oh, I thought that they announced it was meant to be canon prior to the release of the game. My mistake then.

they marketed as an actual prequel but upon playing it you learn it can’t be canon

 

[MeteoRain]

I'm a little perplexed with what people want the Zelda cast to be.

Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are universal and essential. Everyone rightfully thinks they should return.

Toon Link and Young Link are seen as superfluous. This makes sense as both characters are derivative of Link. And even if you think having a child Link is important, you probably accept that only one should stay.

It's Sheik where I becomes confused. A lot of people say she is expendable and should be among the first cuts. She's largely a one off character with only big celebration games like Smash or Hyrule Warriors bringing her back. I suppose I can understand not wanting one off characters in franchises that aren't built off of rotating casts, but then people push other one of characters like Midna and Skull Kid.

Midna and Skull Kid aren't bad choices in my eyes. They're both one off characters, but they're incredibly popular and are from monumental landmark games. Their resumes are incredible and they are some of the most beloved characters in their franchise. Many characters would be happy to have that on their resume.
Thing is Sheik has all of that, and is a long time Smash veteran with a very rich competitive history.

So, I have to ask what you want the Zelda roster to be? Just the essentials of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf? Should one offs be included too? Or should it only be reoccurring characters like Impa and Tingle?

I personally think a roster like and Skull Kid / Midna (with Ganondorf and Toon Link decloned) would make a lot of Zelda fans happy and would arguably be ideal. Don't get me wrong. I love Impa and I would love to see her inclusion. But Impa and Tingle don't have the sheer pop that Skull Kid and Midna (and Sheik) have.

I think any unique non Triforce wielded newcomer would be positively received but we need more characters like Sheik. And I think removing Sheik for a character like that misses the point.

I personally would love to have both Ganondorf AND Ganon

In retrospect it's sad they just amalgamated his votes with Ganondorf in a Smash 64 survey just to add a clone of the latter in Melee and haven't done anything but more Link clones going forward

I definitely believe Ganon can do a great job representing the games before Ocarina of Time and 2D Zelda in general while Ganondorf takes the 3D side of the Zelda series

(But yeah, Midna, Skull Kid, or even Ghirahim would've been dope too)

 

[Opossum]

they marketed as an actual prequel but upon playing it you learn it can’t be canon

It's still considered canon to the overall narrative but also explicitly a different, diverging timeline.

 

[fogbadge]

It's still considered canon to the overall narrative but also explicitly a different, diverging timeline.

I mean sure in a sense

 

[MeteoRain]

What if Toy Link replaces Toon Link?

There must always be one small Link, after all.

They better effin not

 

[Diddy Kong]

they marketed as an actual prequel but upon playing it you learn it can’t be canon

Plot twist: it's it's own canon.

HAH never expected that one huh?

No for real, it plays out events that did happen in BotW. Just with a different outcome.

 

[fogbadge]

Plot twist: it's it's own canon.

HAH never expected that one huh?

No for real, it plays out events that did happen in BotW. Just with a different outcome.

well the game itself says it’s an alternate timeline

 

[DarthEnderX]

Oho!

She’s also in Hyrule Warriors (and Smash obviously)

Oh right! Though she was probably trained by Impa there as well.

Either way, I think spinoff titles should get more attention in Smash. There’s a ton of great content and potential characters from those side games that Smash tends to pass over.

HW still has the best Ganondorf design.

I personally would love to have both Ganondorf AND Ganon

We have both Ganondorf AND Ganon. In the forms that are most appropriate for them. A Fighter for Ganondorf and a Boss for Ganon.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa was only actually similar to Sheik... in OOT. By proxy of having taught her how to fight in that form. That's it. Since then, Impa has gained abilities in the canon games and really isn't that similar anymore. HW alone shows a lot of unique stuff, but even without that, she has tons of unique material.

The idea of a semi-clone fits best if HW won't be taken into account. That way you can use something besides the OOT design, but also allow for various abilities in various games while making her stand out. I mean, maybe some abilities will be shared(Impa is still a ninja archtype in canon, after all), but not that much. And even if it was a fair amount, it wouldn't really change her being reasonably unique. Just look at Isabelle. She's a branch of Villager's moveset(in practice. I'm aware she was designed in a way to try and be unique but ended up being similar to Villager), but damn, does she stand out. Albeit, I'd have loved some more Work Project stuff, but still.

Depending on the version of Impa, there's a lot they can do to differentiate the two. For sure. Even if they'd only take Skyward Sword as inspiration. Impa showcases abilities there that would make up for semi clone status at the bare minimum. Her way longer limbs already would make for a different play style, and apparently she fights a lot using magic coming out of her hands. More typical monk than ninja, though combining both in a way.

Age of Calamity is both successful and popular enough to warrant Impa being based on it. It was marketed almost as much as a mainline title. So there's honestly no discussion on what Impa would bring compared to Sheik.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Oho!

Heck yeah!

I will say, if Billy and Jimmy do get in Smash, I hope they use the Neon designs. I think they're the best versions of the characters.

Also...did I hear some NES Mario sounds in that trailer?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Which is why one of them should be an Echo.

Sheik is only in OoT.

Hyrule Warriors and Smash Bros says hi

I can see Impa being a Luigi-fied character with some of her own tweaks to make her stand out a bit

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Depending on the version of Impa, there's a lot they can do to differentiate the two. For sure. Even if they'd only take Skyward Sword as inspiration. Impa showcases abilities there that would make up for semi clone status at the bare minimum. Her way longer limbs already would make for a different play style, and apparently she fights a lot using magic coming out of her hands. More typical monk than ninja, though combining both in a way.

Age of Calamity is both successful and popular enough to warrant Impa being based on it. It was marketed almost as much as a mainline title. So there's honestly no discussion on what Impa would bring compared to Sheik.

Yeah, the comparisons do get a bit silly at times.

That said, it's not so much a matter of canon alone, but the fact that Nintendo nor its departments made the HW games. This means to get a full character based upon it requires extra work by keeping in talks with both Nintendo and Koei Tecmo. That's because he is making sure the character is portrayed correctly. Overall, the more companies involved, the harder it gets to make it work. It makes sense why Sakurai overall tends to stick with 1st party games as inspiration for characters, or at least keep it simple enough where he rarely has to work with more than one company for a single character(or transformation character). Spin-offs are a tad harder to justify development-wise for content beyond cameos/references(where that requires a lot less work and time).

But you get the idea. Either way, HW didn't really show me any characters of interest among the already created characters. The OC's(I.E. Linkle) felt a lot more interesting to me in comparison.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The problem with Impa is that she's a relatively minor character. She's only a major presence a handful of times, and a lot of those are spinoffs.

This is why Skyward Sword is amazing.

 

[Gengar84]

The problem with Impa is that she's a relatively minor character. She's only a major presence a handful of times, and a lot of those are spinoffs.

This is why Skyward Sword is amazing.

And Skyward Sword doesn’t have any character representation at the moment so that version of Impa would be welcome. SS Impa is my second favorite version of the character after HW.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Goddamn. How many characters did they add in this patch?

 

[Shinuto]

No, Tingle looks like a parody of the adult otaku obsessed with video games, manga, anime, ... who refuses to grow up, which is why so many people hate him because they see themselves reflected in his mirror

That is bull since he's loved way more in Japan, we just find him annoying. He was a fine comical weirdo in MM but everything after was just obnoxious wall towards progression in WW and a literal slave driver to his...brothers/friends? and in his own games is just a disturbing freak,

 

[Laniv]

Goddamn. How many characters did they add in this patch?

Just the three: Balloon Fighter, Scizor, and Banjo & Kazooie.

This game is going to add every character under the sun except for Zelda, isn't it

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As for Tingle suddenly not being an AT, it could be because they wanted to more focus on his MM design. Especially with Young Link back.

But yeah, tis odd his AT didn't return, but many didn't. He saw use in Ultimate beyond that anyway, so it's no big deal. Also, by that time, he was seeing less use in the Zelda games. So it's not that odd he got less focus.

Either way, he's still my top pick. A really fun and eccentric character. I still need to get the EU Copy of his main game. It looks quite neat. Sadly it's super expensive...

 

[Gorgonzales]

Just the three: Balloon Fighter, Scizor, and Banjo & Kazooie.

This game is going to add every character under the sun except for Zelda, isn't it

I really like the way Balloon Fighter is portrayed in this. His ability to pop a balloon for a super powerful attack is really cool and I enjoyed seeing all of the other stuff he could pull off. That Final Smash of his is fantastic too, I really miss the sheer chaos of those kinds of FS's. He's probably my favorite addition overall.

The Iwata salute is cute too.

 

[Speed Weed]

Goddamn. How many characters did they add in this patch?

They added a Fantasy Zone stage, which I think is a sign that Smash needs to get with the times

 

[DKing]

Goddamn. How many characters did they add in this patch?

My boy

Spoiler: Balloon fighter

Balloon fighters

look clean.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hyrule Warriors and Smash Bros says hi

I can see Impa being a Luigi-fied character with some of her own tweaks to make her stand out a bit

Also, I was referring to how Impa isn't basically Shiek 2.0 outside of at best OOT. Sheik doesn't have to reappear in the normal Zelda games for that to make sense. Impa hard evolved on her own with tons of unique skills. Of course Sheik didn't(till HW and a slight bit in Smash) in the same way, but even then, Impa was quite clearly being more than just a ninja archtype, which is all Sheik ever was.

...In other words, OOT was the only game they were similar because Impa went a different path in abilities instead of sticking to pure Ninja. And that's not including bodyshapes, in which Impa also has massively changed it up.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hyrule Warriors and Smash Bros says hi

I can see Impa being a Luigi-fied character with some of her own tweaks to make her stand out a bit

Same. At the very least Specials would be different. Skyward Sword Impa with longer limbs also makes her moves have more range, and they would probably give her Sheikah related weapons. Breath of the Wild has Sheikah and Yiga soldiers often using short swords, and Impa uses a short sword / dagger in the reveal trailer for Echoes of Wisdom. It's also her canon weapon in Age of Calamity but for arguments sake we don't use this design.

She could then use a barrier for Down or Side Special, a magical orb projectile as seen in Skyward Sword cutscenes, a dagger or kunai throw to mimick Sheik's Needles, and Up B and Down B could be seen as Sheikah staple techniques honestly so borrow them from Sheik?

Semi clone, Echo or unique, Impa has enough merrit to make it. And a semi clone or Echo of a rather popular move set is not a bad idea, it worked wonders for Fox / Falco in Melee, for Lucina as a Marth clone, you name it. Sheik has a strong base move set which makes her popular, a Echo or semi clone of such a character would be better received than most. Also leaves room for a unique newcomer maybe, but I think Impa as a unique newcomer is enough for Zelda to serve as the bare minimum.

 

[Undella2]

I suppose having Impa added would be better than not having any new Zelda character added - and there is certainly enough to distinguish her from Sheik - but if a new non-clone Zelda character is being added, I'd still rather have a more... visually distinct, so to speak, newcomer chosen instead. Like Vaati (who I'd personally prefer), or Skull Kid, Midna, etc.

Though that's just my opinion, of course.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How would you react if in the next game, we got two Splatoon newcomers, but those characters were Callie and Marie? Both characters would have unique movesets. Our Splatoon roster would look like / Callie / Marie.

 

[Louie G.]

How would you react if in the next game, we got two Splatoon newcomers, but those characters were Callie and Marie? Both characters would have unique movesets. Our Splatoon roster would look like / Callie / Marie.

Honestly would be a little bit confused about separating them, since I would rather them fulfill another collaborative team based mechanic as a band of musicians. It just fits them better in my opinion. I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise that the premise of a playable music troupe is appealing to yours truly.

In general though I’m cool with them adding the Squid Sisters. Off the Hook is my preference but I can’t really argue with Callie and Marie’s popularity and prominence within the series. So I would pretty quickly come to embrace it but I may still have some skepticism over the way they were implemented.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I suppose having Impa added would be better than not having any new Zelda character added - and there is certainly enough to distinguish her from Sheik - but if a new non-clone Zelda character is being added, I'd still rather have a more... visually distinct, so to speak, newcomer chosen instead. Like Vaati (who I'd personally prefer), or Skull Kid, Midna, etc.

Though that's just my opinion, of course.

Yeah, same. That's the biggest reason why I'm not really on board with Impa, particularly her HW version.
Skull Kid, Midna, Vaati, Tingle, a Goron or a Zora character, even Rauru... Those capture Zelda's design style a lot better than HW Impa. It's hard to put into words but Zelda characters, even in the great variety of art styles the series has adopted, are usually slightly off in some way, they look very unique and give off "mysterious" vibes.
HW Impa has none of that, she's just a ninja warrior who could have come out from pretty much any fantasy-themed game.

Of course this doesn't apply to SS Impa. That one is extremely Zelda.