Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[BritishGuy54]

Re: Mario reps in Smash

was always going to be a forgettable inclusion. It was a small fish in the massive lake that was Smash Ultimate.

Despite that, I open for this approach with surprise characters now, which is as bonus additions. Mario mooks are just very flexible in that regard, with options such as Shy Guy, Dry Bones, etc.

Or they go in a different direction and tackle another series’ mooks. I don’t know how Zelda fans will react to the only new Zelda character since Brawl being a Bokoblin or something.

But again, it’s hard to compete with Mario’s big three names being thrown around as newcomers, being Waluigi, Geno, and Paper Mario. I’ve spoken before on these three. It’s a massive hurdle even characters like Toad struggle to compete.

And even then, Mario is incredibly lucky most of its big names are in the game. all made sense to take priority over the others mentioned above. It’s just a question on if Nintendo thinks Mario is well represented enough as is, or if they can add a few more.

Most people seem to be in agreement that and are some of the most likely cuts. I won’t deny, I’ll be gutted to see Doc get cut and Mario keep FLUDD. If Mario gets a different, simpler down special, I’ll be okay seeing Doc leave.

For , I would say she is slightly more likely to be cut than . With on the roster, we’d still have an extra princess, and one who’s recently been in a mainline title.

But in general, I think Mario will fare much better when it comes to cuts unlike other series with big numbers, such Pokémon and Fire Emblem, since Mario’s cast is essentially always relevant.

 

[fogbadge]

let's just cut the entire roster and be done with it

 

[Garteam]

I've been content envisioning a scenario where we get somewhere around only 6-8 of them back for base roster, a scenario that I actually think is fairly plausible.

I think you're being a bit conservative with your estimates. Everyone is basically in agreement that we'll get at least one new third party and the Smash for Wii U third parties (minus Cloud) back, so that's already 6 characters at the bare minimum. Most of the DLC characters are also in a relatively good position going into the next Smash game and we'll likely get at least two third parties if we get more than six unique newcomers this game.

As such, I think we're looking at a figure somewhere between 12 and 18 third parties.

 

[ScrubReborn]

let's just cut the entire roster and be done with it

Perfect.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Again the discussion about the potential Mario cuts between Rosalina and Bowser Jr. discussion made me realize people expect them to be cut over the likes of Sheik, despite both characters being more prominent in the Mario franchise than Sheik is to Zelda.

Might we revisit this now maybe ? How come cuts in the Mario franchise as the before mentioned is more acceptable than the loss of Sheik? Likewise with Pokémon and the potential cuts of say, Mewtwo, Incineroar, Lucario or Greninja ? Also all easily top 10 Pokémon in terms of popularity.

 

[Opossum]

Again the discussion about the potential Mario cuts between Rosalina and Bowser Jr. discussion made me realize people expect them to be cut over the likes of Sheik, despite both characters being more prominent in the Mario franchise than Sheik is to Zelda.

Might we revisit this now maybe ? How come cuts in the Mario franchise as the before mentioned is more acceptable than the loss of Sheik? Likewise with Pokémon and the potential cuts of say, Mewtwo, Incineroar, Lucario or Greninja ? Also all easily top 10 Pokémon in terms of popularity.

For what it's worth I absolutely think Sheik is at risk of being cut. It's just that she at least has Young and Toon Link as more obvious buffers, and with them out the only ones left are Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, and Sheik, and...yeah it's pretty obvious at that point who has the least priority.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Again the discussion about the potential Mario cuts between Rosalina and Bowser Jr. discussion made me realize people expect them to be cut over the likes of Sheik, despite both characters being more prominent in the Mario franchise than Sheik is to Zelda.

Might we revisit this now maybe ? How come cuts in the Mario franchise as the before mentioned is more acceptable than the loss of Sheik? Likewise with Pokémon and the potential cuts of say, Mewtwo, Incineroar, Lucario or Greninja ? Also all easily top 10 Pokémon in terms of popularity.

Some people just don't know what they're talking about sometimes. Just look at all the FE debates we've had on this site.

 

[Gengar84]

Again the discussion about the potential Mario cuts between Rosalina and Bowser Jr. discussion made me realize people expect them to be cut over the likes of Sheik, despite both characters being more prominent in the Mario franchise than Sheik is to Zelda.

Might we revisit this now maybe ? How come cuts in the Mario franchise as the before mentioned is more acceptable than the loss of Sheik? Likewise with Pokémon and the potential cuts of say, Mewtwo, Incineroar, Lucario or Greninja ? Also all easily top 10 Pokémon in terms of popularity.

My reasoning is that both Mario and Pokemon already have so many characters with a lot of potential for newcomers. For that reason, I feel like we could lose a few and still have pretty great representation. Zelda, on the other hand, hasn’t had a unique newcomer since Melee and only has four unique movesets (and that’s counting Ganondorf as unique). Cutting one of our unique Zelda characters is a lot more impactful for that reason. I’d love to expand how many unique fighters Zelda has, not the other way around. I feel like a lot of people undersell the potential in Zelda newcomers just because a lot of them only appeared in one mainline game. Plus, I just really like Sheik so I have personal reasons for wanting to keep her around.

 

[Louie G.]

I think you're being a bit conservative with your estimates. Everyone is basically in agreement that we'll get at least one new third party and the Smash for Wii U third parties (minus Cloud) back, so that's already 6 characters at the bare minimum. Most of the DLC characters are also in a relatively good position going into the next Smash game and we'll likely get at least two third parties if we get more than six unique newcomers this game.

As such, I think we're looking at a figure somewhere between 12 and 18 third parties.

I said 6-8 of them back, not in total. Factoring in my expectations for a couple new third party series and supplementary characters like a new Sonic character and Chun-Li that brings us closer to 10-12.

Don’t really agree with you on the rest here, because I know that in contrast you are very optimistic on this, but we’ll see what happens. I don’t feel that strongly about it one way or the other right now, I’d just like to prepare myself for this scenario because we hardly have much precedent for how guest characters are handled under normal conditions.

How come cuts in the Mario franchise as the before mentioned is more acceptable than the loss of Sheik?

I also believe that Sheik is on somewhat shaky ground, but the truth is this conversation is easier for some people because Bowser Jr and Rosalina were added in Smash 4. Vets up through Brawl get special treatment in speculation and most everyone after that is treated as some degree of expendable.

I don’t agree with that, but that’s often how people see it. Sheik has their own merit worth discussing - they offer a pretty distinct, fundamental playstyle - but is at least Zelda’s fourth or fifth priority and not quite a lock.

 

[Gengar84]

I said 6-8 of them back, not in total. Factoring in my expectations for a couple new third party series and supplementary characters like a new Sonic character and Chun-Li that brings us closer to 10-12.

Don’t really agree with you on the rest here, because I know that in contrast you are very optimistic on this, but we’ll see what happens. I don’t feel that strongly about it one way or the other right now, I’d just like to prepare myself for this scenario because we hardly have much precedent for how guest characters are handled under normal conditions.



I also believe that Sheik is on somewhat shaky ground, but the truth is this conversation is easier for some people because Bowser Jr and Rosalina were added in Smash 4. Vets up through Brawl get special treatment in speculation and most everyone after that is treated as some degree of expendable.

I don’t agree with that, but that’s often how I see it. Sheik has their own merit worth discussing - they offer a pretty distinct, fundamental playstyle - but is at least Zelda’s fourth or fifth priority and not quite a lock.

That’s part of it too. I don’t think long time veteran status should make a character a lock for future games but I don’t think it should be discounted either. From what I’ve seen, Sheik has been a pretty popular Smash character since her introduction. She’s also playable outside of Smash thanks to Hyrule Warriors so she and other popular Zelda characters are no longer technically one-off.

I realize that Super Mario is really popular and Nintendo’s biggest franchise alongside Pokemon but I’d personally prefer we strike some kind of balance with their major series representation in Smash. If you include Mario offshoots like Wario and Yoshi, we have way more Mario characters than any other series. Cutting everything else while not touching Mario just leaves Smash feeling even more unbalanced in terms of general representation. It still makes sense that Mario and Pokemon have the highest amount of characters in Smash but I think I’d prioritize wider series representation rather than go all in with one or two.

 

[Diddy Kong]

For what it's worth I absolutely think Sheik is at risk of being cut. It's just that she at least has Young and Toon Link as more obvious buffers, and with them out the only ones left are Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, and Sheik, and...yeah it's pretty obvious at that point who has the least priority.

I wouldn't say Toon Link is as much at a risk as Sheik myself really. There's good reasons to keep Young Link around. 3 time veteran, and a Link clone has always been a thing since Melee. Link also has had some changes to warrant a clone even more. And he has appeared in quite some titles. Even if not Toon Link, a small Link clone of the main one is pretty certain to me. Toon Link has never once been a lower priority character since his inclusion (where in Brawl he sort of was a low priority I guess, but still).

I think Toon Link deserves to stay around more so than Sheik. Sheik can be "replaced" or our prioritized by Impa in a similar fashion Ike and Lucario got in over Roy and Mewtwo in Brawl. I don't think that's a bad decision at all, even if I'd like her to stay around. However, if I had to cut 2 Zelda characters? Young Link and Sheik in a heartbeat.

Some people just don't know what they're talking about sometimes. Just look at all the FE debates we've had on this site.

It gets worse cause you can easily pick out who in these discussions actually play / played Fire Emblem, and who don't, and the haters know no boundaries.

With Mario, Zelda and Pokémon there's at least a basic norm in terms of respect for the franchise and the namesake and the huge impact on Nintendo. With Fire Emblem, it's really love and hate.

 

[Louie G.]

Cutting everything else while not touching Mario just leaves Smash feeling even more unbalanced in terms of general representation. It still makes sense that Mario and Pokemon have the highest amount of characters in Smash but I think I’d prioritize wider series representation rather than go all in with one or two.

I mostly agree in that I would not advocate for Mario and Pokemon’s seventh or eighth most important character over another series’ only character. But I’ll admit that Mario and Pokemon are simply so chock full of unique character potential that this doesn’t usually feel that intrusive to me. It’s just if this started to encroach on / outprioritize characters like Little Mac where I would be upset.

Otherwise, even simply within the spread of “expendable” characters we have a celestial goddess puppeteer character, a pseudo-mech character prankster and a limbless potted plant. Any of these characters are an unfortunate loss simply because of how unique and fun they are. As long as Mario continues to deliver this level of creativity I’m content.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly I just think the Zelda cast is much more safe in general compared to all members of the Mario cast..

Yeah Sheik is a tier down from Link, Zelda and Ganondorf, but I don't think we'll ever get far enough for that to matter.

 

[Gengar84]

I mostly agree in that I would not advocate for Mario and Pokemon’s seventh or eighth most important character over another series’ only character. But I’ll admit that Mario and Pokemon are simply so chock full of unique character potential that this doesn’t usually feel that intrusive to me. It’s just if this started to encroach on / outprioritize characters like Little Mac where I would be upset.

Otherwise, even simply within the spread of “expendable” characters we have a celestial goddess puppeteer character, a pseudo-mech character prankster and a limbless potted plant. Any of these characters are an unfortunate loss simply because of how unique and fun they are. As long as Mario continues to deliver this level of creativity I’m content.

Yeah, I don’t have any issues with any particular Mario character. I think they’re all great in their own way and there’s a lot of cool options for new characters. My issue is that people seem to be discounting other series where that’s also true. Take Zelda for example. That series has so many unique and beloved characters that could be a ton of fun in Smash. They just seem to be generally discounted for only appearing once in the mainline series. Hyrule Warriors and Age of Calamity show that so many of them have the potential for really cool and original movesets. If it were up to me, I’d bring back EiH but if we have to make cuts, it makes sense to trim from the series with the most existing representation rather than series that is already struggling for newcomers.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Re: Plantgang

I'm not saying it says a lot that the most hype Plant ever gets is as a response to the Grinching of 2018, but imo Plant is just battling the stigma of being a generic mario mook at every chance it gets. It doesn't help that people beforehand were already getting unhappy that named mario characters weren't being put in spinoff rosters while they got increasingly esoteric with the mook reps (which isn't a bad thing mind you, but if you're gunning for, say, Wart and they add one of the Sprixies to a tennis game it leaves you scratching your head). If they somehow found another character that could conceivably do what plant did as gimmicks, but wasn't tied to what people consider "Generic Mario" it would've gone over much better in terms of people caring about them longer-term.

It further doesn't help that Plant's status as something you have to buy means he can't be in the spirits, dlc or not. He feels more vestigial casually because of the lack of even a cgi trailer and everything else dlcs usually got. Though if we're being real Plant is a victim of the fact that even the people that like them are probably usually thinking about someone else they want in the game. This is the Hypebeast game, and nobody's hyping up Pirahna Plants. It works as a unique surprise, sure- but of course it'd get lost in the shuffle when this game's speculation is all about "which face would i like to see" and not "boy oh boy I hope they explore this mechanic to the fullest".

Maybe I'm just trying too hard to justify my own inability to really care about Plant beyond it's status as an unintentional response to the Grinch Hoax, idk

Re: Bow Jr.

This is petty but I just hate how Smash pretty much became the driving force for putting Bowser Jr. in the clown car in every appearance after. He still works as a character but even in Lego sets now it's become his thing to be in the dang car and I just never liked it. I guess it makes him following you in Bowser's Fury a lot more easy to do but ehhh it doesn't feel like they lean into the idea enough so it always feels like a holdover from the NSMB visual identity.

 

[SPEN18]

"not gone, already forgotten"

PP, 2018-2024

 

[Louie G.]

This is petty but I just hate how Smash pretty much became the driving force for putting Bowser Jr. in the clown car in every appearance after. He still works as a character but even in Lego sets now it's become his thing to be in the dang car and I just never liked it. I guess it makes him following you in Bowser's Fury a lot more easy to do but ehhh it doesn't feel like they lean into the idea enough so it always feels like a holdover from the NSMB visual identity.

To be fair, he doesn’t have it in his Mario Wonder battles. I don’t mind it so much personally but maybe that’s a sign that they’re letting him step out of the thing a little more often.

Speaking of Wonder, this is a moment where it’s kind if a shame that the Koopalings have to take up all Bowser Jr’s color slots. Because his “Wonder” form is super cool and would have otherwise been a no brainer. Even just some variant with his bandana up where he really means business.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, it shouldn't be hard to have extra costume slots. It doesn't need to be consistent. 8 is a good minimum, not a necessary maximum. I'd love to see other Jr. alts besides just the Koopalings too.

That said, it's not just Smash in itself. Bowser Jr. used the Koopa Clown Car earlier. It's just a good way to use the vehicle, since Bowser before then has had tons of appearances and abilities that he barely used said vehicle. Bowser Jr. doesn't have nearly the same amount of abilities, so it makes sense he uses it more. It's easier to make a battle out of, that's all.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

People expect big Mario and Pokémon characters are going to be cut because there are more of them to add, and less slots to give to them. Heck, you could probably fill a Brawl sized roster with Pokémon and be pretty pressed to cut any one of them. Mario isn't quite as extreme, but like, between Waluigi, Geno, and Toad, you've still got a pretty strong newcomer base, and that's not even counting some of the other fairly realistic picks like King Boo, Paper Mario, Pauline, etc.

Honestly, it shouldn't be hard to have extra costume slots. It doesn't need to be consistent. 8 is a good minimum, not a necessary maximum. I'd love to see other Jr. alts besides just the Koopalings too.

I don't blame everyone (including me) for fixating on this since the devs cut Wario and Little Mac's pallet swaps in half for Ultimate. At least for now it does seem to be a maximum, albeit an arbitrary one.

Honestly though, you could get a lot of value out of adding more pallet swaps for characters. Bayonetta now has three major designs, so instead of giving one the short end of the stick, give her 9 slots to play with. Bowser Jr. could get a pallet swap for himself and each Koopalings. Give Steve all of the default skins as alternate costumes. Characters with 2 major costumes can go up to 16 so they can have a normal amount of pallet swaps for each one...unless their name is Cloud because he's not allowed to wear color for some reason.

 

[Arcanir]

Bowser Jr. is a case where they definitely should get more than eight costumes. I understand wanting the uniformity for developments sake, but he shares his spot with seven other characters and while he has a number of potential alts that he could get he can't have access to them due to the cap. It feels like he's being restricted.

That also applies to characters with multiple popular designs like the aforementioned Bayonetta or have multiple alt options that eight can't cover like Samus or Link.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Again the discussion about the potential Mario cuts between Rosalina and Bowser Jr. discussion made me realize people expect them to be cut over the likes of Sheik, despite both characters being more prominent in the Mario franchise than Sheik is to Zelda.

Might we revisit this now maybe ? How come cuts in the Mario franchise as the before mentioned is more acceptable than the loss of Sheik? Likewise with Pokémon and the potential cuts of say, Mewtwo, Incineroar, Lucario or Greninja ? Also all easily top 10 Pokémon in terms of popularity.

Mario does have 9 characters compared to Zelda’s 6. Zelda has traditionally gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to newcomers plainly because it’s got a static main cast like Mario, but a rotating supporting cast like Fire Emblem.

It makes people divided on who to include, as there isn’t a clear front runner other than the obvious ‘redesign Ganondorf’, which will probably end up happening.

I’ve said before that Zelda’s character selection in Smash is fine on paper. But even after 25 years, some people still don’t know what being a clone means.

It’s also nostalgia. Some people seem content returning to Melee/Brawl’s roster without realising it’s not the 2000’s anymore. It’s just a different time today.

Re: Bow Jr.

This is petty but I just hate how Smash pretty much became the driving force for putting Bowser Jr. in the clown car in every appearance after. He still works as a character but even in Lego sets now it's become his thing to be in the dang car and I just never liked it. I guess it makes him following you in Bowser's Fury a lot more easy to do but ehhh it doesn't feel like they lean into the idea enough so it always feels like a holdover from the NSMB visual identity.

Part of me wished got into Brawl, and took more influence from his appearances in Sunshine and NSMBDS. Despite that, you can’t deny his appearances in NSMBW and NSMBU laid the groundwork for his Smash 4 design.

Still, he’s not in his Clown Car in Wonder for the boss fights. So there might be more for him to do.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Despite that, you can’t deny his appearances in NSMBW and NSMBU laid the groundwork for his Smash 4 design.

Well that and they've associated him more and more with the Clown Car after Smash 4. Surprised he's out of it for Wonder.

 

[Shinuto]

I'm in a camp of as long as I get my number one most wanted plus Ultimate's roster I don't care who gets cut next game or who gets added. My ideal is next Smash is no cuts, having over 100 characters for marketing purposes and hype bragging rights, and Shantae. If it's meet that quota, Smash can do anything afterwards and I'll be fine.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm in a camp of as long as I get my number one most wanted plus Ultimate's roster I don't care who gets cut next game or who gets added. My ideal is next Smash having over 100 characters for marketing purposes and hype bragging rights and Shantae. If it's meet that quota, Smash can do anything afterwards and I'll be fine.

Shantae would be fun. I haven’t played any of her games but I’ve seen several gameplay trailers and she has a lot of moveset potential from what I’ve seen. I feel like she’s probably more likely than most of the characters on my own most wanted list so hopefully you get your wish.

 

[Shinuto]

Shantae would be fun. I haven’t played any of her games but I’ve seen several gameplay trailers and she has a lot of moveset potential from what I’ve seen. I feel like she’s probably more likely than most of the characters on my own most wanted list so hopefully you get your wish.

I would really like to also see KOS-MOS, Lip, Ayumi, and 2B. ( I want to recreate a piece of smash fanart with 2B and Shantae and share it with the artist) but all of them aren't priority wants like Shantae is for me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I just thought of something that makes Byleth's moveset bug me slightly more: If you wanted a character who used the entire weapon triangle, Kiran was right there. From there you could have further differentiated him with his summoning abilities. It would have been a fun way to represent cool Fire Emblem characters that just can't be justified as characters.

EDIT: I know it's a little backwards because Byleth was character first rather than concept first, but still.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm a little perplexed with what people want the Zelda cast to be.

Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are universal and essential. Everyone rightfully thinks they should return.

Toon Link and Young Link are seen as superfluous. This makes sense as both characters are derivative of Link. And even if you think having a child Link is important, you probably accept that only one should stay.

It's Sheik where I becomes confused. A lot of people say she is expendable and should be among the first cuts. She's largely a one off character with only big celebration games like Smash or Hyrule Warriors bringing her back. I suppose I can understand not wanting one off characters in franchises that aren't built off of rotating casts, but then people push other one of characters like Midna and Skull Kid.

Midna and Skull Kid aren't bad choices in my eyes. They're both one off characters, but they're incredibly popular and are from monumental landmark games. Their resumes are incredible and they are some of the most beloved characters in their franchise. Many characters would be happy to have that on their resume.
Thing is Sheik has all of that, and is a long time Smash veteran with a very rich competitive history.

So, I have to ask what you want the Zelda roster to be? Just the essentials of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf? Should one offs be included too? Or should it only be reoccurring characters like Impa and Tingle?

I personally think a roster like and Skull Kid / Midna (with Ganondorf and Toon Link decloned) would make a lot of Zelda fans happy and would arguably be ideal. Don't get me wrong. I love Impa and I would love to see her inclusion. But Impa and Tingle don't have the sheer pop that Skull Kid and Midna (and Sheik) have.

I think any unique non Triforce wielded newcomer would be positively received but we need more characters like Sheik. And I think removing Sheik for a character like that misses the point.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm a little perplexed with what people want the Zelda cast to be.

Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are universal and essential. Everyone rightfully thinks they should return.

Toon Link and Young Link are seen as superfluous. This makes sense as both characters are derivative of Link. And even if you think having a child Link is important, you probably accept that only one should stay.

It's Sheik where I becomes confused. A lot of people say she is expendable and should be among the first cuts. She's largely a one off character with only big celebration games like Smash or Hyrule Warriors bringing her back. I suppose I can understand not wanting one off characters in franchises that aren't built off of rotating casts, but then people push other one of characters like Midna and Skull Kid.

Midna and Skull Kid aren't bad choices in my eyes. They're both one off characters, but they're incredibly popular and are from monumental landmark games. Their resumes are incredible and they are some of the most beloved characters in their franchise. Many characters would be happy to have that on their resume.
Thing is Sheik has all of that, and is a long time Smash veteran with a very rich competitive history.

So, I have to ask what you want the Zelda roster to be? Just the essentials of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf? Should one offs be included too? Or should it only be reoccurring characters like Impa and Tingle?

I personally think a roster like and Skull Kid / Midna (with Ganondorf and Toon Link decloned) would make a lot of Zelda fans happy and would arguably be ideal. Don't get me wrong. I love Impa and I would love to see her inclusion. But Impa and Tingle don't have the sheer pop that Skull Kid and Midna (and Sheik) have.

I think any unique non Triforce wielded newcomer would be positively received but we need more characters like Sheik. And I think removing Sheik for a character like that misses the point.

I’d love as many unique Zelda characters as we can get. Hyrule Warriors showed that’s there’s a ton of potential for so many characters to have unique and interesting movesets.

At a minimum, here’s what I’d like to see but I’ll take whatever else they can give me:

Link
Zelda
Sheik
Ganondorf (overhauled moveset)
Impa (preferably based on Hyrule Warriors)
Rauru (to showcase TotK mechanics)

I’d love other popular characters like Midna and Skull Kid as well and I’m not opposed to Toon Link or Young Link as a second Link but they’re not a priority for me.

 

[Louie G.]

I personally think a roster like and Skull Kid / Midna (with Ganondorf and Toon Link decloned) would make a lot of Zelda fans happy and would arguably be ideal. Don't get me wrong. I love Impa and I would love to see her inclusion. But Impa and Tingle don't have the sheer pop that Skull Kid and Midna (and Sheik) have.

This is my stance too. Agree that there is some hypocrisy against Sheik while propping up other “irrelevant” Zelda one shots. Perhaps there’s a little stigma involved because Sheik is technically another version of Zelda, but being fully unique and having a flair all their own I really don’t think it matters that much.

Their odds of returning are IMO a bit dubious and rely on just how many cuts we will see, but I don’t think they are nearly as expendable as some people make them out to be either. Mainly for reasons cited in this thread already - the consensus is that Zelda should have more characters, so removing their only fully original character outside the main three feels counterintuitive. And the prospect of just “replacing” Sheik with Impa is IMO just pointless. Impa is fine and all but I just don’t like the philosophy that specifically treating her as a replacement endorses.

I mostly just like to have Toon Link around for the sake of representing that branch of the series. I wish I enjoyed playing as him more - Young Link feels better to play, but he’s a goner. Might have rather had Tetra in another universe, although then I wonder if we’d hear complaints about three Zeldas lol.

 

[Opossum]

It's Sheik where I becomes confused. A lot of people say she is expendable and should be among the first cuts. She's largely a one off character with only big celebration games like Smash or Hyrule Warriors bringing her back. I suppose I can understand not wanting one off characters in franchises that aren't built off of rotating casts, but then people push other one of characters like Midna and Skull Kid.

Midna and Skull Kid aren't bad choices in my eyes. They're both one off characters, but they're incredibly popular and are from monumental landmark games. Their resumes are incredible and they are some of the most beloved characters in their franchise. Many characters would be happy to have that on their resume.
Thing is Sheik has all of that, and is a long time Smash veteran with a very rich competitive history.

To me the biggest difference between Sheik and someone like Midna, Ghirahim, or Skull Kid is that while all of them are one offs, Sheik is a one off who is also Zelda.

That last bit matters much more to me than the one off part, and is why I would hope she doesn't stay over some other characters who are their own person (and more than just "well technically it's a DIFFERENT Zelda!").

 

[BritishGuy54]

To change the subject, and with the recent Olympics going on, I recall Mario & Sonic Rio 2016 having special character animations and interactions after winning as a team.

What if Smash 6 did a similar thing? Granted, it would be a lot of work for what would be special victory animations, but still, it’s the thought that counts.

 

[Noipoi]

Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Skull Kid, Midna, Tingle.

There. There’s your Zelda reps.

 

[Perkilator]

I'm a little perplexed with what people want the Zelda cast to be.

Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are universal and essential. Everyone rightfully thinks they should return.

Toon Link and Young Link are seen as superfluous. This makes sense as both characters are derivative of Link. And even if you think having a child Link is important, you probably accept that only one should stay.

It's Sheik where I becomes confused. A lot of people say she is expendable and should be among the first cuts. She's largely a one off character with only big celebration games like Smash or Hyrule Warriors bringing her back. I suppose I can understand not wanting one off characters in franchises that aren't built off of rotating casts, but then people push other one of characters like Midna and Skull Kid.

Midna and Skull Kid aren't bad choices in my eyes. They're both one off characters, but they're incredibly popular and are from monumental landmark games. Their resumes are incredible and they are some of the most beloved characters in their franchise. Many characters would be happy to have that on their resume.
Thing is Sheik has all of that, and is a long time Smash veteran with a very rich competitive history.

So, I have to ask what you want the Zelda roster to be? Just the essentials of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf? Should one offs be included too? Or should it only be reoccurring characters like Impa and Tingle?

I personally think a roster like and Skull Kid / Midna (with Ganondorf and Toon Link decloned) would make a lot of Zelda fans happy and would arguably be ideal. Don't get me wrong. I love Impa and I would love to see her inclusion. But Impa and Tingle don't have the sheer pop that Skull Kid and Midna (and Sheik) have.

I think any unique non Triforce wielded newcomer would be positively received but we need more characters like Sheik. And I think removing Sheik for a character like that misses the point.

For the next game at least, I want the Zelda veterans to be Link, Zelda and Ganondorf all updated to their TotK appearances, and neither Young Link nor Toon Link coming back. Sheik is a character that can go either way for me.

 

[Ivander]

I just thought of something that makes Byleth's moveset bug me slightly more: If you wanted a character who used the entire weapon triangle, Kiran was right there. From there you could have further differentiated him with his summoning abilities. It would have been a fun way to represent cool Fire Emblem characters that just can't be justified as characters.

For a couple things, Kiran did not become playable in FEH and get more moveset-potential until mid-2021, practically 2 years after when Byleth had started being made for Smash Bros. So we would not have any of the Avatar designs for Kiran, their moveset potential aside from Breadablik's gun form and summoning gimmick nor really a voice for Kiran since Kiran had no specified gender at the time.
2nd, in terms of their summoning gimmick, for one, if you had Kiran outright summoning characters for their attacks, I don't think their reception would be any different from the reception Alear gets when people suggest taking out FE characters to become part of Alear's moveset. And two, they certainly weren't going to do Pokemon Trainer 2, but with Fire Emblem characters, for a Pass character. Even with the closest we got, Pyra and Mythra, both had the same moveset for the most part, just with different specials and stats. 3 Fire Emblem characters, each with a different weapon and moveset, was not happening.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Skull Kid, Midna, Tingle.

There. There’s your Zelda reps.

I'll be real.

Tingle shouldn't be anywhere near the Smash roster.

His biggest legacy is people not liking him, as unfair as that is.

 

[DKing]

Why do I feel Byleth was a pseudo Koei Tecmo rep because Koei Tecmo helped the development of Three Houses.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Why do I feel Byleth was a pseudo Koei Tecmo rep because Koei Tecmo helped the development of Three Houses.

Do you feel like Wolf was a pseudo Namco rep because they made Star Fox Assault?

 

[Noipoi]

To change the subject, and with the recent Olympics going on, I recall Mario & Sonic Rio 2016 having special character animations and interactions after winning as a team.

What if Smash 6 did a similar thing? Granted, it would be a lot of work for what would be special victory animations, but still, it’s the thought that counts.

For every individual team up? Not likely.

For characters that have a connection? Sure, I could see some special animations. We already have special dialogue for certain character match-ups.

 

[AreJay25]

To change the subject, and with the recent Olympics going on, I recall Mario & Sonic Rio 2016 having special character animations and interactions after winning as a team.

What if Smash 6 did a similar thing? Granted, it would be a lot of work for what would be special victory animations, but still, it’s the thought that counts.

I mean if Sakurai is still insistent on not doing an actual Subspace-esque story mode again, this would be a nice compromise. Just having more character interactions of SOME kind in your big crossover fighting game would go a long way.

And like some of them would be no brainers too. Ken and Terry recreating their Capcom vs SNK intro, Little Mac and DK referencing their fight in Punch-Out, Mega Man and Samus doing some cool arm cannon stuff, Sephiroth indulging in his favorite past time of mentally destroying Cloud. It'd add a lot of flavor for sure.

 

[Will]

Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Skull Kid, Midna, Tingle.

There. There’s your Zelda reps.

I’ll be real.

Tingle is the best possible choice you can to represent Zelda, and should have been on the roster sooner.

The ability to dislike is not a detriment to this character. Otherwise, why the **** are we supporting Waluigi? I don’t see any other side character having a dedicated spinoff duology. Commercially successful spinoffs, by the way. He was positively received in non-Western areas.

We’re getting the goddamn Fairy. He is coming home where he belongs as a gaming icon, goddammit! /s on this paragraph specifically