Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Arcanir]

Yeah, in general they don't like having heavies with good recoveries, so they typically limit them by either making it bad (like poor Ganondorf), exploitable, and/or give them other flaws to compensate for it. Considering most heavies aren't good because of their struggles recovering they maybe should consider drawing back on the limitations, but balance can be a fine line to walk, especially for a game like Smash and it's many different variables to think about (casual, competitive, 2v2, free-for-all, items, etc.).

 

[Sucumbio]

If they did use his pogo or heck just a ground scrape I'd be down it doesn't have to be broken if anything it would just add more variety. To give him that nudge toward better viability yeah one more jump, or slash the startup frames on up-b.

 

[Guynamednelson]

(like poor Ganondorf)

Which is a shame for him because he used to have a good recovery via aerial Wizkick restoring his double jump.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

The pogo tail down air could honestly just be a downward tail stab that has long range but doesn't spike and maybe doesn't even hit particularly hard.
It would be a useful move to help Ridley escape from juggling and maybe to give him a few more ways to approach but I doubt something like that would make the character broken, especially with his poor air speed.
His current down aerial is virtually useless, looks awkward and takes the place of one of his most iconic moves. I don't think many players would miss it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Which is a shame for him because he used to have a good recovery via aerial Wizkick restoring his double jump.

Honestly, recovery techniques like this should probably exist for most heavyweight fighters, or at least, more than just Ganondorf. Having poor recoveries makes sense at low levels since weight alone is more important than recovery in terms of serviveability, but once recovering and edgeguarding are both things in play, heavyweight surviveability plummets because they just get gimped. For some heavies, this is probably intentional, but I don't think it's intentional for all of them.

And then there's King K. Rool, who has the reverse: His recovery is amazing at low levels and not that great at high levels.

 

[ScrubReborn]

I mean.

Spoiler

It can't be anymore ridiculous that that

He has DLC privilege tho.

Ok but fr good point, I forgot about Seph's existence. Though tbf, that move is at least balanced out by being a stall-then-fall, so maybe Sakurai thought that was enough risk for all that range. Usually, Ridley's pogo dosen't work like that, he just hangs in the air and sticks his tail downwards.

I agree if he wanted to, Sakurai could make a pogo tail work, I'm just tryna imagine what Sakurai's reason for not including it is.

The pogo tail down air could honestly just be a downward tail stab that has long range but doesn't spike and maybe doesn't even hit particularly hard.
It would be a useful move to help Ridley escape from juggling and maybe to give him a few more ways to approach but I doubt something like that would make the character broken, especially with his poor air speed.

Yeah. As kinda awkward as a downwards thrust move not spiking would look, not making it a meteor smash is probably the best solution. I mean Link's down thrusting down air didn't spike in the first three games either, so it's not much weirder than that.

but if sak wasn't a coward he would make it meteor anyways and let people cry about it

 

[Guynamednelson]

Honestly, recovery techniques like this should probably exist for most heavyweight fighters, or at least, more than just Ganondorf. Having poor recoveries makes sense at low levels since weight alone is more important than recovery in terms of serviveability, but once recovering and edgeguarding are both things in play, heavyweight surviveability plummets because they just get gimped. For some heavies, this is probably intentional, but I don't think it's intentional for all of them.

And then there's King K. Rool, who has the reverse: His recovery is amazing at low levels and not that great at high levels.

In Ganondorf's case, Falcon lost that trick too in Brawl. I don't think they were trying to level the playing field for heavies in casual play with this one.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

In Ganondorf's case, Falcon lost that trick too in Brawl. I don't think they were trying to level the playing field for heavies in casual play with this one.

Oh I was more speaking about how they're handled in general because of casual play rather than that change specifically. In practice it's just one of those things that they just didn't want to have on either character (and may have been unintentional in the first place), but I think Ganondorf should have get it back.

 

[Noipoi]

Yeah, in general they don't like having heavies with good recoveries

It's Incinerover

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

 

[Perkilator]

Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

I think at the very least, the main Triforce Trio should receive some important updates based on TotK, like:

• Link’s Down B becoming Bomb Flowers, and pressing B while holding a Bomb Flower to fuse it to his arrow
• Ganondorf should just receive a flat-out overhaul based on his boss fight in Tears
• Zelda…is difficult for me to say for sure. Maybe incorporate Echoes into an updated moveset? I also like Delzethin’s idea of how he integrates abilities like Recall and the Light Arrow.

 

[fogbadge]

Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

tbh i'd like them to have different designs for different alts. then it wont matter which is default. also they should really bring back shiek's oot look. it's bit odd that's she not based on the one game she's been in

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

Nah, I like the diversity. Young Link really could use more MM parts(even if it's just costumes only). I mean, assuming he returns during the next game(Toon Link is good on his own. Very colorful and expressive. He feels juuuuuust right).

It kind of worked as a thing during Brawl, but only because everybody was Gamecube-based, and they could justify Toon Link over Young Link(despite the same role). After that? This doesn't really work anymore. There's too many games, and too many designs and references alone. Just focusing on one game overly makes it a bit boring. That said, Link is a fairly awkward one because his half-nature of classic and BOTW parts really hurts how he plays. Losing the Hookshot along with new Bombs really affects his playstyle. Not all changes are good, heh.

 

[Opossum]

I think at the very least, the main Triforce Trio should receive some important updates based on TotK, like:

• Link’s Down B becoming Bomb Flowers, and pressing B while holding a Bomb Flower to fuse it to his arrow
• Ganondorf should just receive a flat-out overhaul based on his boss fight in Tears
• Zelda…is difficult for me to say for sure. Maybe incorporate Echoes into an updated moveset? I also like Delzethin’s idea of how he integrates abilities like Recall and the Light Arrow.

BOTW/TOTK Zelda is my favorite Zelda, and TOTK Ganondorf would be perfect to rework them, so honestly I'd like the Triforce Trio at least to be specifically those incarnations...which is more so uniformity by happenstance, but still.

 

[Gorgonzales]

It's Incinerover

Bottom text

(Ok but for real though, why does captioning a post with "Bottom Text" absolve it of being cause for a warning? The phrase doesn't add anything meaningful to the already-provided image. They're just two extra words that provide zero substance or value. Images are worth a thousand words, so I don't understand why we're not allowed to post them alone despite the possibility of them providing so much more information than most text-only posts would. This is one of my biggest gripes with this site, along with the character-specific threads being closed.)

 

[Noipoi]

View attachment 392769

Bottom text

(Ok but for real though, why does captioning a post with "Bottom Text" absolve it of being cause for a warning? The phrase doesn't add anything meaningful to the already-provided image. They're just two extra words that provide zero substance or value. Images are worth a thousand words, so I don't understand why we're not allowed to post them alone despite the possibility of them providing so much more information than most text-only posts would. This is one of my biggest gripes with this site, along with the character-specific threads being closed.)

I think the fear is without the text requirement there's a possibility that threads would devolve into image spam. Just a bunch of memes with no real discussion occurring.

But I dunno, I feel like there's better way to go about this.

 

[Borskaboska]

I wouldn't really mind if the zelda cast just all got smash-original designs, considering any design based of the most recent game will get outdated pretty soon after.

As far as movesets go, I'm not a fan of the idea of giving them moves based on one-off gimmicks that will never get revisited. Personally I feel like the smash interpretations of characters should represent the 'soul' or overarching idea of a character rather than one specific game incarnation.
That is unless it fits the general vibe/theme of the characters. Like, I don't like mario having FLUDD as a part of his moveset but I like the idea of giving him his cap throw, because even if the move never comes back after SMO mario is always going to have his hat, and plus the hat throw is just a very jaunty action and fits his chipper attitude.

So I wouldn't give link the rune abilities or champion abilities, but I'd be ok with sheild sliding or maybe fusing items to his arrows.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

I loved Ultimate's approach to them and would prefer it be kept like that, it was cool. Maybe change Ganondorf's design back to Twilight princess though, since there are two Ocarina reps in there.

 

[Guynamednelson]

But I dunno, I feel like there's better way to go about this.

Require the text to be something more elaborate, like "This is a meme I made about Incineroar's recovery"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Incineroar is funny because he looks at all of the hits to frame data that other heavies have and said "nah", so now he's just a normal fighter with dummy strong attack power and throws who pays for it in mobility and a pretty poor recovery.

Granted, they've been starting to go away from garbage mobility on these characters (Bowser and Donkey Kong are pretty mobile for example) and he doesn't also have long limbs that grant him a ton of range on top of that which is probably allows him to exist as he is, but still.

So much fun though. One of my favorite characters in the series, and his inclusion single-handedly improved my view of the Pokémon.

 

[Opossum]

View attachment 392769

Bottom text

(Ok but for real though, why does captioning a post with "Bottom Text" absolve it of being cause for a warning? The phrase doesn't add anything meaningful to the already-provided image. They're just two extra words that provide zero substance or value. Images are worth a thousand words, so I don't understand why we're not allowed to post them alone despite the possibility of them providing so much more information than most text-only posts would. This is one of my biggest gripes with this site, along with the character-specific threads being closed.)

It's one of those things that absolutely depends on the mod. In the past the Bottom Text type of posts tended to get infracted for spam and have the image removed from the post for good measure.

 

[Laniv]

Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

I like the different characters taking designs from different games. I hope they shuffle them around next time so we get like OoT Zelda and TotK Ganondorf or something

As an aside, I hope we can get different designs as alts, if nothing else. Hey, if Ike can do it, why can't Link or Zelda? or Roy?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

So much fun though. One of my favorite characters in the series, and his inclusion single-handedly improved my view of the Pokémon.

Honestly I love Incineroar in Ultimate, and I would love to see him come back, despite the cuts we might see. I was never someone opposed to the design because I loved the sort of meta feel of it, making him a bipedal wrestler just to make him part Dark instead of Fighting to make him a heel both in-universe and in the Pokemon community at large (and I even said as much to friends jokingly before Sun and Moon came out, so when he actually did end up that way I had a real fun time lmao)

His presentation and personality in Smash is top notch, I loved using him to cheese a good number of high level spirits to the point that I started calling Cross Chop the Legend Killer, and it helps he's from my second favorite Pokemon region since getting a Pokemon from Black and White is next to impossible at this point.

I reeeeeally hope Incin comes back, basically lol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

His presentation and personality in Smash is top notch, I loved using him to cheese a good number of high level spirits to the point that I started calling Cross Chop the Legend Killer, and it helps he's from my second favorite Pokemon region since getting a Pokemon from Black and White is next to impossible at this point.

I used him to beat The Sephiroth Challenge and it only took 2 or 3 tries before he died to something silly because he weighs the same as Kirby. Probably the second funniest thing to happen in my time playing Ultimate.

The first funniest is Min Min cheese. That stuff gets me every time I pull it off. lol

 

[Noipoi]

At this rate Smash fans like Incineroar more than actual Pokemon fans, who either hate his design or hate how busted he is in competitive.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Incineroar is amazing because he can go full Brock Lesnar hitting all those German Suplex. Might as well call them Suplex City

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I like the different characters taking designs from different games. I hope they shuffle them around next time so we get like OoT Zelda and TotK Ganondorf or something

As an aside, I hope we can get different designs as alts, if nothing else. Hey, if Ike can do it, why can't Link or Zelda? or Roy?

Bad box art style Megaman, Kingdom hearts Cloud, street fighter Alpha Ryu and Ken, and classic style Sonic.
That's the dream.

Also would be great to more clearly reference Majora's Mask with Young Link

 

[DarthEnderX]

Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

The latter. I prefer the Zelda cast representing more of the series as a whole.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Bad box art style Megaman, Kingdom hearts Cloud, street fighter Alpha Ryu and Ken, and classic style Sonic.
That's the dream.

Also would be great to more clearly reference Majora's Mask with Young Link

Everybody's gangsta until someone ask for Fatal Cutie!Terry.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Everybody's gangsta until someone ask for Fatal Cutie!Terry.

Jokes on you.

I'm into that.

 

[Gengar84]

Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

I like Ultimate’s varied approach. Ideally, I’d love for each outfit slot to be used for a different incarnation of the character. Kind of like Hero. That way we can all play as our favorite version of the characters.

Incineroar is amazing because he can go full Brock Lesnar hitting all those German Suplex. Might as well call them Suplex City

I actually named my Incineroar Suplex Kitty in Sun and Moon based on Lesnar lol.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Everybody's gangsta until someone ask for Fatal Cutie!Terry.

I thought it was a fun idea...Then I saw the premise of SNK Heroines.

 

[smashkirby]

What characters would you expect to see as Assist Trophies in the next game?

Personally, my vote goes for Toy-Con Robot, because even if it doesn't get a character, I'm expecting Nintendo LABO to get something. Even if it does get a character I kind of expect this one to pop up alongside it unless it itself is the new character.

Generally speaking, I guess I don't really have any expectations in terms of who's going to be an AT next Smash. If nothing else, I suppose I see Nintendo especially dipping into their C-List and D-List series, if anything. In terms of 3rd parties, perhaps Smash could ask for things like Namco's arcade stars Bravoman, Wonder Momo, Mappy, etc.) as ATs?

With that said? For as much as I'd like for Lark (or a Pilotwings 64 character in general, really) to be playable, I can see... well, SOMEONE from Pilotwings 64 being an Assist where they'd board their Gyrocopter and fire missiles from the foreground upon opponents.

So, how likely do you think it is that Pikmin gets a new character? Or is Olimar/Alph all we'll ever get?

With how prominent Pikmin's been becoming recently? I see it being pretty likely. I mean, I certainly wouldn't mind Oatchi at this point. His unique design could definitely lead to some attacks from his own end, rather than solely relying on the Pikmin.

Speaking of Alph though... while I'd far-and-away prefer him to at least be an Echo, I can't deny the possibilty that Sakurai could have Captain Olimar pull a 'Hero' and add Alph, Louie, and Pom/Lisa alt. skins for Olimar.

People always talk about Ayumi when it comes to Smash Bros, and obviously for good reason. Sakurai mentioned her, and she's the one who had a trophy in Melee.

But I have a question, what about the bloke who is always standing in front of her on the games boxart? Who is he? It always throws me off when Ayumi isn't the one front and centre

Technically, HE'S the real main protagonist of the Detective Club games. I guess you could say that he's the 'Phoenix Wright' to Ayumi's 'Maya Fey', if nothing else.

If I remember correctly, his 'default' name is Taro, right?

OK, here's a hypothetical question.

If Terry makes it into the next game, and if we get a second SNK rep that isn't from King of Fighters, Fatal Fury or Art of Fighting, what are the chances it may either be Haohmaru or Nakoruru from Samurai Shodown or a Metal Slug character (Marco w/ Tarma, Eri and Fio as alts or the titular tank itself)?

Wow, I'm legit surprised Athena Asamiya isn't coming up in these discussions more often. Not that I wouldn't want other SNK characters like Mai, Rock Howard and so on, but I REALLY thought she was looked at more intensely as another major SNK option...

Honestly, I never understood why there should be a reserved spot for villains for every big franchise.

I don't mind bad guys but so many people act like Smash is a failure of a crossover if it doesn't meet an arbitrary quota of them.

THANK YOU. Like, I'm not opposed to villain characters in the slightest, but I've been quite intrigued by the rather notable desire many have for them to join Smash...

Well then if anything we're probably overlooking Don-Chan.

Don-chan is among my most wanted Namco characters for Smash! However, I can't shake this feeling that, for as huge as he is? He's probably NOT up there on Namco's list of potential Smash additions...

There's also me, the only person who wants the Sable Prince playable

You're not alone. Prince Sable for Smash supporter right here!

 

[CannonStreak]

You're not alone. Prince Sable for Smash supporter right here!

Same here, actually. I have interest in him, too.

 

[SPEN18]

Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

I love having A Link to the Past / A Link Between Worlds Zelda and I hope this general sort of design stays the go-to evergreen one. And tbh there's not much reason to change her rn because the current Zelda moveset doesn't really fit well on BotW/TotK Zelda without major overhaul.

For Link, as long as we have some more classic Link alt to go along with the expected Wild era one I'll be content with it.

I also love OoT Ganondorf, but I'd be open to another style.

If Sheik, YL, and TL come back then there really isn't much other strong option besides tweaks to the current designs.

 

[DKing]

Can we say that the Harmoknight IP is dead despite we have a spirit of tempo in ultimate we did get no song no Mii costume no other spirits and Game freak doesn't let us know nothing about the IP if they want sequel or not. Hopefully we get some soundtrack in the next smash.

 

[Opossum]

Can we say that the Harmoknight IP is dead despite we have a spirit of tempo in ultimate we did get no song no Mii costume no other spirits and Game freak doesn't let us know nothing about the IP if they want sequel or not. Hopefully we get some soundtrack in the next smash.

I mean it always seemed like a one and done deal with them, much like fellow Nintendo-co-owned Game Freak non-Pokémon IP, Drill Dozer. I don't think they ever intended on making it into a big franchise, just a small downloadable one-off 3DS game.

 

[DKing]

I mean it always seemed like a one and done deal with them, much like fellow Nintendo-co-owned Game Freak non-Pokémon IP, Drill Dozer. I don't think they ever intended on making it into a big franchise, just a small downloadable one-off 3DS game.

That sad to hear it because there was a lot of love put in the game with their art direction.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Aside from Pokemon Gamefreak really prefers to do one and done games, their library makes that obvious.

Hell Pokemon itself was just supposed to be a duology, but it became such a global hit that they decided to keep the series going.

 

[dream1ng]

I'm sure Game Freak would be willing to give more of their non-Pokemon titles sequels if they were a bit more successful, but none of them have made particularly huge waves, and then when the alternative is the biggest IP in the world, it's kind of a hard sell.

But you'd hear no complaints from me if they ever wanted to give Pulseman another go.