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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

superprincess

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Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

:ultlink::ultsheik::ultzelda::ultganondorf::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink:
I wouldn't mind it either way, as long as everyone gets a design they didn't have in Ultimate—except Toon Link for obvious reasons.

Link could honestly stay as is, the Remote Bombs are a staple of his kit now, but TOTK was a huge deal so I don't know. Maybe they're gonna go back to the classic bombs (bomb flowers anyone?)

Sheik should by all means go back to OoT. Only canonical design and all that blah blah blah honestly I just don't love how far the Smash designs have strayed away from the original concept of the character. TOTK didn't even focus on the Sheikah so there's no way to make a refreshed design, really. And going back to the TP concept art is a no. That was the worst of both worlds.

Zelda is a tough one because the BOTW/TOTK one absolutely cannot use the current moveset. Maybe they'll go back to OoT or (even better) TP, bringing back her more elegant persona. But my favorite option is to throw us a curveball and introduce SS Zelda. Nobody from SS got to be in Smash so this would be really nice, and it would also fit canonically with the more cheery Zelda that Ultimate made up.

Ganondorf should be TOTK. Reskin his specials to use the club and spear weapons, change the purple stuff to gloom and he's good to go. TOTK was his first appearance in a mainline Zelda game in 17 years, and Smash should celebrate that. Going back to TP would be boring and also that design looked especially ugly in SSB4, so no thanks. And WW Ganondorf's proportions do not fit the moveset at all.

Young Link obviously won't return but if we were to entertain the idea that he somehow will, I'd want them to lean more towards Majora's Mask. That was his game after all. Note that I'm only talking about aesthetics, none of that "transformation moveset!1!1!" weirdo stuff. Fierce Deity can be the Final Smash though.
 

Diddy Kong

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Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

:ultlink::ultsheik::ultzelda::ultganondorf::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink:
If done properly, TOTK is the best inspiration for Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. Echoes of Wisdom potentially being better for Zelda, remains to be unseen as of yet. Champion Link and Demon Lord Ganondorf are a must I feel. Toon Link is Toon Link, Sheik is Sheik. They should have set designs, if they're gonna be there at all.
 

TheLamerGamer

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Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

:ultlink::ultsheik::ultzelda::ultganondorf::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink:
My ideal way of representing a series like this would be to have the most recent designs for the main 3 (totk for link and ganondorf, eow for zelda), then one-off characters to represent the older games. But that isn't what smash did so... (I'd still probably prefer totk link and ganondorf at least)
 

Oracle Link

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Would you rather the Zelda cast be updated to new games like TotK when applicable, or do you prefer Ultimate's approach where different characters take different designs from different games?

:ultlink::ultsheik::ultzelda::ultganondorf::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink:
Okay Lets Go!

Of course my favourite Option would be Multiple Alts per Character to have all looks! But if i can only have one game be repped by each it should be these:

Link: BOTW The remote bombs are a subtle twist and that games really popular!

"Toon" Link and Zelda: (again hence the naming confusion) I want both of them to match! AND TBH make link be based arround Links awekening and zelda be her echoes of wisdom Designs (with only a bit of trirod) Best thing would obvioulsy be a Toon and toy combo for both of them! (as spirit tracks and Echoes of wisdom are the games were zelda is the most important)

Sheik/ Impa: OOT not only is that the canon sheik design OOT Impa and sheik are also the only ones with a similar frame!

Only Impa: Skyward Sword

Tingle: Toon definitly TOON!

Ganondorf: TOTK Duh!

Ganon: Echoes of wisdom!

Young Link: Either he gets the toy link design instead of toon! Or he gets cut!
 

Gengar84

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If we get Impa and spinoff designs are off the table, I’d love to see her Skyward Sword incarnation in Smash. Personally, as a whole, SS had some of my least favorite character designs in the series but Impa was an exception. I think she actually looked really cool in that game. That design was improved (imo) with Hyrule Warriors, which is my overall favorite for the character and possibly favorite design of any character in the series.

As for the others, I’m really partial to the Ocarina of Time designs for both Link and Ganondorf and the Twilight Princess design for Zelda. I understand that they probably wouldn’t want to base so many designs of OoT alone so I’d love the Hero style alt idea.
 
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HyperSomari64

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Aside from Pokemon Gamefreak really prefers to do one and done games, their library makes that obvious.

Hell Pokemon itself was just supposed to be a duology, but it became such a global hit that they decided to keep the series going.
I'm sure Game Freak would be willing to give more of their non-Pokemon titles sequels if they were a bit more successful, but none of them have made particularly huge waves, and then when the alternative is the biggest IP in the world, it's kind of a hard sell.

But you'd hear no complaints from me if they ever wanted to give Pulseman another go.
I want to see Tembo the Elephant and the Smart Ball/Jerry Boy as part of the Assist Trophy lineup.
 
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Louie G.

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I like the Zelda designs as they stand right now, but I think it would be pretty nuts if they didn’t update Ganondorf in line with his most recent appearance. Up until Ultimate this was pretty much the standard, and Ganon hasn’t seen a new design in quite some time otherwise.

And at that point, assuming Link stays the same / is updated slightly for TOTK, you may as well just bring Zelda to speed. I was skeptical of this at first but I’ve come around on it. Her dress is less flowy, so some animations may have to be tweaked around but I think they could make it work. Seeing how Smash Zelda takes some creative liberties as is I could see them just doing a TOTK “inspired” outfit that better suits Smash’s needs as well.
 

Oracle Link

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I like the Zelda designs as they stand right now, but I think it would be pretty nuts if they didn’t update Ganondorf in line with his most recent appearance. Up until Ultimate this was pretty much the standard, and Ganon hasn’t seen a new design in quite some time otherwise.

And at that point, assuming Link stays the same / is updated slightly for TOTK, you may as well just bring Zelda to speed. I was skeptical of this at first but I’ve come around on it. Her dress is less flowy, so some animations may have to be tweaked around but I think they could make it work. Seeing how Smash Zelda takes some creative liberties as is I could see them just doing a TOTK “inspired” outfit that better suits Smash’s needs as well.
I mean shes playable for the first time in echoes of wisdom!
While "Only" Being an important side character in TOTK!
Also we've not seen any love towards small zelda in smash yet so i think giving her the design(s) from HER Game makes sense!

If They have to do Adult Zelda for the 4th time in a row the should give keep the Smash ultimate dress for atleast one of her alts because that dress is pretty close to her chibis dress!

Also In that case they have to add her protagonist design as a mii costume!

But its your opinion so thats okay!
 

Louie G.

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I mean shes playable for the first time in echoes of wisdom!
While "Only" Being an important side character in TOTK!
It’s just that with how uniform these three have been in the past, I find it tricky to imagine them chibifying Zelda into her toy form in contrast with Link and Ganon. If there’s enough time I might be able to see some EOW inspiration in her kit, but if we got a “small” Zelda I’m going to assume that would be as a separate character entirely.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Her dress is less flowy, so some animations may have to be tweaked around but I think they could make it work. Seeing how Smash Zelda takes some creative liberties as is I could see them just doing a TOTK “inspired” outfit that better suits Smash’s needs as well.
Honestly if they were worried about the new dress breaking animations they could easily just extend the hem to her ankles, and maybe even make it a tad less restrictive so she can kick (though her current dress is already pretty restrictive so I dunno if that's necessary). I think the main reason why we didn't get Zelda from The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild was because she didn't wear a dress at all, which would have required animating her from the ground up.

Side Note: How likely do you guys think they'll pass up on the new Ganondorf design for not fitting his current moveset?
 

Louie G.

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Side Note: How likely do you guys think they'll pass up on the new Ganondorf design for not fitting his current moveset?
Genuinely think it’s more likely they simply make the necessary changes for the design to work than it is for them to neglect it entirely. I know we’re all very down on the odds of a Ganondorf rework but TOTK is the biggest move the character has made in years and like… worst case scenario, there’s nothing preventing this design from working with his existing kit anyway. He’s still a big strong dude, he can do punches and kicks and grabs.
 
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DarthEnderX

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I'd do Zelda like this:

Link - BotW with a classic costume
Zelda - ALTTP with a TP costume
Ganondorf - OoT with a TotK costume, transforms into OoT Ganon
Sheik - OoT
(Impa - SS)
Young Link - MM
Toon Link - WW
Skull Kid - MM
Rauru - TotK
Link - BotW
Ganondorf - TotK
Zelda - ALBW
Sheik - HW
Impa - HWAoC
Young Link - MM
Toon Link - WW

Ideally though, Sakurai would finally allow more alt costumes like he's done with Mario, and most of these characters would have multiple looks. Or at least, outfits based on those multiple looks.
 

Gengar84

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Link - BotW
Ganondorf - TotK
Zelda - ALBW
Sheik - HW
Impa - HWAoC
Young Link - MM
Toon Link - WW

Ideally though, Sakurai would finally allow more alt costumes like he's done with Mario, and most of these characters would have multiple looks. Or at least, outfits based on those multiple looks.
What would be really cool but probably less likely is if they also gave us a color editor for outfits. I really want to see all versions of Link in Smash but that would mean a lot of different green tunics. It would be cool to be able to change the colors so we could get the blue and red versions of each tunic along with other fun variants. I know that’s probably asking for too much but I think it would be awesome if they could do it.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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TotK Ganondorf has no Ganon form, right? Unless they use Calamity Ganon they'd have to change his final smash.

Though to be honest, I just don't really like TotK's samurai Ganondorf.
OoT Ganondorf and Ganon are still the best pair of Ganondorf and Ganon designs by far imo.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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TotK Ganondorf has no Ganon form, right? Unless they use Calamity Ganon they'd have to change his final smash.
I don't think the Final Smash has ever mattered much there, but in this case using Calamity Gannon wouldn't be all that much of a stretch since that being comes from him.

Though to be honest, I just don't really like TotK's samurai Ganondorf.
OoT Ganondorf and Ganon are still the best pair of Ganondorf and Ganon designs by far imo.
Smash fans: "I want a samurai!"
Sakurai: "Here's Gannondorf with some iaido reskins of his smash attacks." :4pacman:

Personally, I quite like the design, and it's pretty funny that it ended up looking super similar to the joke comic design that came out after the first trailer came out.
 
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Diddy Kong

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If we get Impa and spinoff designs are off the table, I’d love to see her Skyward Sword incarnation in Smash. Personally, as a whole, SS had some of my least favorite character designs in the series but Impa was an exception. I think she actually looked really cool in that game. That design was improved (imo) with Hyrule Warriors, which is my overall favorite for the character and possibly favorite design of any character in the series.

As for the others, I’m really partial to the Ocarina of Time designs for both Link and Ganondorf and the Twilight Princess design for Zelda. I understand that they probably wouldn’t want to base so many designs of OoT alone so I’d love the Hero style alt idea.
Skyward Sword Impa is my favorite too. Replaying the game now and this is definitely the version of Impa I had hoped to see further down the line in Zelda games. I had huge hopes with BotW being so Sheikah themed. But that version was..... less than desirable. Unless we talk the younger version of Age of Calamity, which boasts the best moveset potential as well as the most popularity amongst Zelda fans. And it helps it was advertised heavily by Nintendo, as a true prequel at first even. Also best selling Warriors game ever I read.

So am kinda conflicted. By design, Skyward Sword Impa for sure. But the moveset of Age of Calamity Impa and her overall popularity, as well as matching greatly with TotK Link and Ganondorf is probably the best bet for Impa.

Am also glad she has an active role in Echoes of Wisdom from what we've seen. She might be old but still battle ready. That's also a direction that might be possible, but not my preferred version by a long shot.
 

Gengar84

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Skyward Sword Impa is my favorite too. Replaying the game now and this is definitely the version of Impa I had hoped to see further down the line in Zelda games. I had huge hopes with BotW being so Sheikah themed. But that version was..... less than desirable. Unless we talk the younger version of Age of Calamity, which boasts the best moveset potential as well as the most popularity amongst Zelda fans. And it helps it was advertised heavily by Nintendo, as a true prequel at first even. Also best selling Warriors game ever I read.

So am kinda conflicted. By design, Skyward Sword Impa for sure. But the moveset of Age of Calamity Impa and her overall popularity, as well as matching greatly with TotK Link and Ganondorf is probably the best bet for Impa.

Am also glad she has an active role in Echoes of Wisdom from what we've seen. She might be old but still battle ready. That's also a direction that might be possible, but not my preferred version by a long shot.
Yeah that’s true. AoC Impa does have a pretty cool moveset but the same can be said for her two unique movesets in the first Hyrule Warriors. We don’t really have many water element users like her great sword or any naginata users in general. So in terms of both design and moveset, I’d go with HW. Although I can’t deny that it’s really cool to hop around on a giant frog and summon clones. AoC’s Impa kind of gives me Naruto vibes with both of those things.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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dear sakurai,

disregard literally everything everybody in this thread has said and add Tingle instead

with love,
will (#1 Tingle fan)
Dear Will Will (#1 Tingle fan),

I have read this post, and shall now disregard literally everything in this thread as requested. Unfortunately, as your post is also in this thread, I will not be adding Tingle.

Regards,
Masahiro Sakurai :sakbanjo:
 

Gorgonzales

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Aside from Pokemon Gamefreak really prefers to do one and done games, their library makes that obvious.

Hell Pokemon itself was just supposed to be a duology, but it became such a global hit that they decided to keep the series going.
Pokemon is Game Freak's life support. It feels like they don't know how to make anything else, which is concerning because they aren't even that good at making Pokemon anymore.

I firmly believe the days of decent Gamefreak IPs like Harmoknight are over because the company is too stretched thin by the HD era and the sheer workload Pokemon demands for it. Little Town Hero was possibly the worst game they've put out ever and that was one of their most recent solo IPs.
 
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Will

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Dear Will Will (#1 Tingle fan),

I have read this post, and shall now disregard literally everything in this thread as requested. Unfortunately, as your post is also in this thread, I will not be adding Tingle.

Regards,
Masahiro Sakurai :sakbanjo:
1721841684161.gif


this is unacceptable, now i must foolishly post harmful rhetoric on my social media pages that will enable contempt among all tinglers
 

Noipoi

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Pokemon is Game Freak's life support. It feels like they don't know how to make anything else, which is concerning because they aren't even that good at making Pokemon anymore.

I firmly believe the days of decent Gamefreak IPs like Harmoknight are over because the company is too stretched thin by the HD era and the sheer workload Pokemon demands for it. Little Town Hero was possibly the worst game they've put out ever and that was one of their most recent solo IPs.
A lot of their issues could be solved if they just hired more people. More people to work on Pokémon so the games don’t come out in rough states. More people to work on other projects they might want to do.

They started as a small company that somehow made a massive hit franchise, and that’s admirable. But they seem so intent on keeping things small and it’s really starting to hurt them.

I think something has to give eventually, it’s evident that they’re starting to realize the current way they’re doing things isn’t quite working. Yes the games are still selling gangbusters but a lot of people aren’t satisfied by the quality of more recent titles, and they know that.
 

RileyXY1

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A lot of their issues could be solved if they just hired more people. More people to work on Pokémon so the games don’t come out in rough states. More people to work on other projects they might want to do.

They started as a small company that somehow made a massive hit franchise, and that’s admirable. But they seem so intent on keeping things small and it’s really starting to hurt them.

I think something has to give eventually, it’s evident that they’re starting to realize the current way they’re doing things isn’t quite working. Yes the games are still selling gangbusters but a lot of people aren’t satisfied by the quality of more recent titles, and they know that.
But they won't do anything about it because they know it will sell tens of millions of copies. It's gonna take a disaster on the level of Sonic 06 for GF to change their stances.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It's not as simple as hiring more people anyway. That helps, no doubt, but they're still given strict timelines to coincide with merchandising and the anime. The amount of time needed will be higher than given. More people cannot fix that factor in itself. Some stuff will take time to code and test. You can't actually rush it if you want it work properly. That said, more people is still a good idea, but it isn't enough.

Anyway, if TOTK Ganondorf doesn't work with the current Ganondorf moveset, they simply won't use that core design change(they'll still reference it with costumes, of course). Either it's compatible with the current moveset or it's not. Changes like Gloom are one thing. But changing his fundamental playstyle is not a realistic scenario to begin with. Nobody's core playstyle has been hard changed(though it has deviated before, which even that does make it harder to adjust to).
 

DarthEnderX

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Diddy Kong

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Ganondorf is flawed yeah. Enormously so. This new popular iteration of him could set things straight. And really should. The Smash attack could stay, just change the sword for the Demon King Club. The Demon King Spear and Sword would also need inclusion, normals would do, maybe certain aerials as Neutral Air and Up Air. Down and Forward are real iconic to the Ganondorf we've had in Smash for long. So they stay.

Side B could stay too, even Warlock Punch, Dark Dive too, but just buff the overall recovery and add a sword swipe to it or something. And just change the purple flame effect for a Gloom effect for Warlock Punch, maybe let Ganondorf release a blast of Gloom regardless if it hits or not. Another idea I had, give it an aerial version that releases an earthquake like in Ocarina of Time when it lands. Think a stronger slower version of DK Down B.

I'd sacrifice Warlock Punch first for a total unique Gloom projectile attack, but I'm afraid it's also considered "important" to Ganondorf now, just like F Air, D Air and Side B so far.

Up Tilt could be another Club attack. Maybe even leave it as it's sort of "unique"..? Even if I'd dislike that and want it changed for a regular sword or spear swipe to give Ganondorf something he could use.

And Down B, well, I dunno a similar effect of a move that we have with Wizards Foot but leaves a trail of Gloom that lingers afterward. A sort of rushing attack that he also does in TotK, functionality it would kind of work the same but buff it enormously cause it's terrible.

I think this is probably the most realistic way I'd see Ganondorf end up. Quite a few moves being different this way, but keeping a sort of core playstyle that's gonna make him bottom tier yet again, cause apparently that's a must.
 
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Will

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Quite a few moves being different this way, but keeping a sort of core playstyle that's gonna make him bottom tier yet again, cause apparently that's a must.
It’s a must for him to be a heavyweight that packs a punch in exchange for low mobility. Being low-tier is just a consequence for the competitive scene.

Casual dorf (items/hazards) is a menace imo. :sakbanjo:
 
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Diddy Kong

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It’s a must for him to be a heavyweight that packs a punch in exchange for low mobility. Being low-tier is just a consequence for the competitive scene.

Casual dorf (items/hazards) is a menace imo. :sakbanjo:
Nah. He gets gimped by items even harder cause he's slow and can't recover, and is big thus easy to hit.

Ganondorf isn't a well balanced character, at all. His moveset design is horribly done.
 

Louie G.

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But changing his fundamental playstyle is not a realistic scenario to begin with. Nobody's core playstyle has been hard changed(though it has deviated before, which even that does make it harder to adjust to).
I don’t agree, but you gotta hear me out a bit. Because I don’t really blame anyone for simply abiding by what we’ve seen so far. If you want to maintain that conservative perspective then that’s your prerogative, it’s the safe angle and in some contexts I’m the same way.

In this one however, I just take some issue with the mentality. Do I think Ganondorf will be DRASTICALLY reworked? I don’t know. He’s still going to be a big heavy hitting guy, I imagine he’d maintain certain iconic moves like the stomp regardless.

But post-Ultimate is the wild west. Something bothers me about the thought that okay, we’re going to lose like 20+ original movesets, but it’s just so so important to keep this one because muh legacy and because some people like it. What’s wrong with the idea of “cutting” Ganondorf and then adding a “newcomer” in the form of a new version of Ganondorf? Is that not the same thing as the couple dozen unique character cuts and x-teen unique newcomers we’ll see next game?

In the case of Ganon specifically, there aren’t many other characters on the roster that have both fundamentally evolved to this extent between games and have staunch, LOUD vocal support to follow up on it with a fresh Ganondorf moveset. He is an interesting case and nobody else really compares right now.

Again, I’m not saying this is totally how it’s gonna go down, but I think we need to loosen up and not act like people are unreasonable for proposing it. You don’t know, I don’t know. Everyone is welcome to believe what they like but the future of the series is a mystery to us all and I feel like this kind of extreme moveset retention becomes a lot less justified when we’re almost all in agreement that we’re going to be losing a lot of unique content no matter what. This is new territory - it’s different when every game had only lost a handful of characters and fwiw, Ganondorf has been effectively on ice since Twilight Princess and lacking in bold new steps forward for over a decade. We can’t just rely on the old precedent to guide our predictions forever.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Core playstyles have been adjusted countlessly however. To name a few.

Fox from 64 to Melee became a full on rushdown speedster. He was much more all-rounded in 64 and not even the fastest.

Peach from Melee onward to Smash 4 and Ultimate became a much faster combo oriented character. She was way more campy and defensive in Melee.

Bowser was a full on mess in Melee and Brawl, became a sort of grappler and very mobile heavyweight since Smash 4.

Mewtwo wasn't designed to be a glass canon in the first place in Melee. They adjusted him to be that ever since Smash 4 and now Ultimate.

Roy was never a rush down character in Melee either. He fully became on ever since Ultimate, not even Smash 4.

This is just to name a few. There's probably way more.
 

Gengar84

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I wish the go to solution to buffing heavyweight fighters like Bowser wasn’t to make them lighter and faster. Sure, it makes them better but I feel they lose something that made them stand out in the process.
 

pitchfulprocessing

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The best idea I have for Ganondorf would be taking a page from SF6 Akuma. Give him a completely new moveset based on his TOTK fight using weaponry + magic from previous games, make him a sort of setplay rushdown character.

Then, give him a long, extended, interruptible taunt where over 10 seconds he discards all his weaponry one by one until only his fists are left, and for the rest of his stock he uses his Smash 4 moveset. If you press the taunt button again, he just does his Wind Waker laugh, and it also takes 10 seconds.

Would this be way too much work for something not viable? Yeah but it'd be cool.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Let me put it this way;

No character has fundamentally changed their core playstyle at all throughout the history of Smash. This isn't special to Ganondorf. He's going to always play in that core playstyle.

We only lose a moveset outright because we lost a character. Not through evolution. It's still the core moveset, but evolved. It may not always be what people want, but let's not oversell it. We didn't get the moveset back because Toon Link was brought in and Young Link was cut. They actually play differently. So it's not that kind of situation.

I don't expect any character to ever have this situation. In addition;

The whole projectile thing is overplayed. Ganondorf was mainly that in OOT, and he only slightly uses them in other fights. But that's because they were updating the Aganahim Boss Battle in general, so it's far more meaningful than "just reflect". Albeit, the triple Aga(or Aga 2 Fight as some call it) was neat, but more annoying than meaningful. Letting you use Items to actually damage the Boss made it very easy to adapt into other games. That's what DMV ultimately was, an adaptable move that easy to reflect and used by tons of Bosses(because it's damn easy to learn). Ganondorf never used it again. An alternate Ganon used it in FSA(who is a different person, basically), and Yuga knows how to use it, though we never the normal Ganon from the timelines(the same person as the one in OOT) ever use it. Then again, it makes sense. Instead of using a highly exploitable move, he uses better ones since then. Where they don't leave him vulnerable easily. It's a cool move, but ultimately it's a move meant to show weakness(and be fun).

Ganondorf is also far more weapon and physical heavy too. He literally punches Link in Wind Waker. Flame Choke came from TP. Even some of his magic in OOT is clearly physical-based(his Ground Pound is part of it), and his Forward Air is based upon OOT artwork. Yes, he's supposed to be physical. He still would've been a lot like that anyway even if he started in Brawl. He might even be worse, since his battles are not seen much, so he doesn't have a lot of skills that can be easily put together for a coherent moveset like the one we have now(with only two moves being kind of awkward; Volcano Kick and Dark Dive. Neither somewhat fit his capabilities from the games, whether it's through animations or otherwise. Sure, they're not hard for him to pull off. He uses Electricity in canon anyway. And Fire). People really do overstate how different he would be. He's not going to be a fast projectile-heavy character. DMV didn't even have a name till the DS era, nor would it be retconned into that name for the sake of it. The character is supposed to be on the slower side. He's a heavyweight by design(and always has been). Whether it's leaning somewhat towards a middle-heavyweight or not(yes, I do think him being overarmored in his TP design was not that fitting. He also, while agile, isn't that fast in WW. The way he is in his OOT design in Smash is somewhat faster than a heavyweight could be, much like in Melee, but he's no middle-weight speed either. Which makes sense anyway).

The thing is? When I look at every character(at least ones I know about), I can't say anything feels outright off about them. They follow an interesting playstyle that ultimately works with their personality. Sure, some clearly could be a tad better(Daisy, Richter, Dark Samus) and could lack a move or two(Ganondorf not having a Reflector is actually pretty weird. Like, uh... that's something that fits his outright playstyle and would help him. And it's not just for the sake of trying to put in a move he rarely uses too. It's to actually improve him and compliment his style).

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I also never spoke one bit about removing Ganondorf and putting in a completely different one with a new moveset. So I don't know why that was brought up. That's an entirely different argument to be made. It's also never happened once(no, Toon Link doesn't count. He's a different character altogether and was based upon Link and Young Link's animations. They shared the same role as a Kid Link and Clone, but it wasn't for the sake of replacing a moveset. Besides that, they obviously have similar but distinct ones. Which is why Toon Link isn't treated as Young Link or an evolution of him. He's really not. Having the same role isn't the same thing as outright being put in to replace a character to "reuse the moveset". Not that he doesn't seem kind of like one, since everyone else evolved into their Gamecube designs. But while that was a good theory at the time, we know better otherwise since Ultimate hard separates them. It probably helps that they are different bodyshapes, so one can't be an evolution of the other that way. No character changed their bodyshape outright to evolve their moveset.

But anyway, I am not remotely convinced it'll happen. Also, keep in mind; people don't need to loosen up here. It's not a problem. They don't need to be convinced it'll happen. Some won't be. There's no need to act like they're trying to bring you down. That's not what they're doing. They're being realistic to the scenario being presented and nothing more. Both views are perfectly fine to begin with. It doesn't matter who is wrong or right at all anyway. Either the argument is good enough for you or isn't. Again, no big deal.
 
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