Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

Also, do you think it would help if Nintendo localize the original games?

They already localized the remakes. Not sure what more they'd get out of translating the originals.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Really though. I did not expect this to be another Famicom Detective Club game. A bit weird that the series title didn't change though. Shouldn't it be the Switch Detective Club now?

I like the name Famicom Detective Club. It has a nice ring and is more interesting / recognizable than just "Detective Club".
I wish Advance Wars was called the "Advance Wars series" instead of just the "Wars series".

 

[Guynamednelson]

I wish Advance Wars was called the "Advance Wars series" instead of just the "Wars series".

It...is? The post-GBA games are still called Advance Wars.

 

[smashkirby]

Ayumi supporters just got another leg to stand on:

WELL! ALRIGHT THEN! This is... this is a thing, apparently.

(For the record, this is me being genuinely thrilled to see Detective Club get a NEW game since... what? 1997??)

Let's see..

-Ayumi was considered for Melee and left out specifically due to lack of international presence.

-Famicom Detective Club gets a remake for Switch that's international.

-Famicom Detective Club gets a sequel for Switch that's international and is something Nintendo is getting people to talk about with their cryptic marketing.


Yeah, no way in Hell she doesn't get in Smash now. And might as well throw in Emio as an Assist.

Legit thought the same thing. I'm not expecting Ayumi to be a guaranteed lock for Smash or anything, but I feel like the fact that Sakurai's hang-up on her being added to Melee was her lack of notoriety outside of Japan. Like, you'd think 'lack of moveset potential' would ALSO be brought up, but...

You’re pretty spot on in terms of the proportion of Kirby merch. If it’s not Kirby, then it’s Waddle Dee. I haven’t seen any Dedede or Meta Knight merch in the wild outside of the Nintendo store yet.

As someone who absolutely ADORES both Kirby AND the Waddle Dee species as a whole, it's nice to see them depicted more as (best) friends than enemies. From what I've heard, they've always been depicted as that in Japan/Asia as a whole, while (most of) the rest of the world simply looks at Waddle Dee as the 'Goomba' of Kirby.

In terms of Dedede and Meta Knight, I think part of why they don't get as much as Kirby and Waddle Dee is because Dedede has a more 'complicated' design (I mean, Kirby and Waddle Dee are literally just gorbs (good orbs) and Meta Knight's 'darkness' might serve as... a bit of an impediment?

In terms of of non-Tekken Namco, it’s mostly just PAC-Man and the ghosts popping up occasionally in their original sprites. I haven’t seen any Tales or Souls stuff in the wild, which kind of caught me off-guard.

That being said, on the Bandai side of things, I have seen a lot of Mametchi. I was actually walking adjacent to a Bandai building without knowing until I walked past the edge of a building, where I saw a statute of Mametchi alongside some of Bandai’s other notable IPs. I think Tamagotchi content could be in the next Smash, although I don’t know if it would warrant a full character.

Interesting... for all the hype Namco places on things like Tales and (ESPECIALLY) their arcade output, I'd think there'd be more on that front...

I haven’t seen much Warner Bros. in terms of Western animation, unfortunately. I’ve really only seen Disney, Peanuts (they love Snoopy here)

Huh, really? Don't get me wrong, I love Mickey and Peanuts, but I was sort of wondering if Bugs Bunny and the like get much love...

 

[DreamyMystX64]

Y'know, if Takamaru got into Melee, his theme music probably would have sounded something like this:

Oh hey, I commissioned that!

On topic of Famicom Detective Club, I’d definitely welcome Ayumi 100%, and with Emio turning out to be a new entry to the franchise, it’s like the series now has an antagonist (which I’d also welcome too even if he ends up as an assist).

If I worked for Nintendo, I’d however remake the Satellaview game before jumping into a new one (and the new game never really matters what it’s about to me, though I funnily enough through an art commission predicted that the game should be tropical themed https://www.deviantart.com/mast3r-rainb0w/art/C-FDC-Remake-Style-Summer-Ayumi-Tachibana-1054102142).

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

In terms of of non-Tekken Namco, it’s mostly just PAC-Man and the ghosts popping up occasionally in their original sprites. I haven’t seen any Tales or Souls stuff in the wild, which kind of caught me off-guard.

That being said, on the Bandai side of things, I have seen a lot of Mametchi. I was actually walking adjacent to a Bandai building without knowing until I walked past the edge of a building, where I saw a statute of Mametchi alongside some of Bandai’s other notable IPs. I think Tamagotchi content could be in the next Smash, although I don’t know if it would warrant a full character.

What of Digimon?

 

[fogbadge]

What of Digimon?

well digimon are the champions

 

[Wonder Smash]

They already localized the remakes. Not sure what more they'd get out of translating the originals.

I was thinking that exploring the series in their original versions would probably help increase it's presence outside of Japan at least a little bit. Kind of like for historical purposes.

 

[BruceTubetheScratcher]

Since everyone's talking about Emio in FDC I will state my opinion
So, I was going to make a moveset based on what we know and what we think about Emio.
Now that we have more information, I think there isn't anything I can think of that would be fitting for Emio other than a OHKO move which would be instant top tier.
Edit: Also, I was excited to see Nintendo of all companies bringing back traditional horror in a world where it's mascot horror, horror but not actually horror it's just Halloween stuff, and non-horror games with dark aspects, the latter 2 Nintendo has already tried (Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario or Kirby)

 

[Sucumbio]

I still hope that, one day, they'll remake Eternal Darkness.

Possibly with Capcom. And Denis Dyack.

I'd like Retro to take a crack but whoever does it please let Jennifer Hale be Alexandra Roivas' va again!

 

[smashkirby]

I feel a bit late to the subject, but I am glad that they used the marketing they did for this new Detective Famicom game. I can understand some being disappointed its not a new IP, but it was probably a really good way to get eyes on a game that many probably wouldn't give a second glance towards had it been announced in other ways.

Ngl, I was wondering if Nintendo might do this (or something LIKE this) as a marketing strategy for whenever they want to revive their IPs going forward.

I've seen some folks echo the sentiment on Twitter today that had Detective Club 4 been revealed via the Nintendo Direct last month, it almost certainly would have been overshadowed by stuff like Metroid Prime 4, and honestly? I kind of agree with them on this.

Isn't the game that featured donbe and Hikari?

I believe so, if those are the names of the main characters.

Yes, Shin Onigashima is Donbe and Hikari's game.

 

[EarlTamm]

Ngl, I was wondering if Nintendo might do this (or something LIKE this) as a marketing strategy for whenever they want to revive their IPs going forward.

I've seen some folks echo the sentiment on Twitter today that had Detective Club 4 been revealed via the Nintendo Direct last month, it almost certainly would have been overshadowed by stuff like Metroid Prime 4, and honestly? I kind of agree with them on this.

Yeah, if this game was sandwiched between all those other announcements in the last direct, it would have totally gone under the radar (Heck, I feel like some pretty notable titles did have that happen to them in that last direct because of how packed it was). Giving it a bit of room to breath and try out some new marketing tactics was a rather wise call and I do hope that Nintendo will be open to doing stuff like this in the future for other titles.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I was thinking that exploring the series in their original versions would probably help increase it's presence outside of Japan at least a little bit. Kind of like for historical purposes.

If they were free on NSO, then maybe.

 

[ninjahmos]

I'd like Retro to take a crack but whoever does it please let Jennifer Hale be Alexandra Roivas' va again!

Retro does seem like an interesting choice. I'd say they handle the horror aspects of the Metroid Prime series pretty well.

And yes, they should definitely bring back Jennifer Hale as Alexandra Roivas. In fact, bring back Kris Zimmerman-Salter as the casting/voice director.

 

[SpecterFlower]

im back yippe.

umm i dont want to bring up any guilty gear argument this time, i just think if i had to choose one ramlethal would make a really cool addition too smash (she has two floating swords, and she can place them whenever and control each one remotely, on top of using them as projectiles , but if you get rid of them her attacks get weaker and longer ranged, i really like her kit design and would love to see it in smash.)

im just wondering if you could choose any single newcomer exclusively on move set potential and absolutely nothing else, who would you choose,
if relevance and main charterism and popularity and legal issues just didnt exist.

 

[smashkirby]

Yeah, if this game was sandwiched between all those other announcements in the last direct, it would have totally gone under the radar (Heck, I feel like some pretty notable titles did have that happen to them in that last direct because of how packed it was). Giving it a bit of room to breath and try out some new marketing tactics was a rather wise call and do hope that Nintendo will be open to doing stuff like this in the future for other titles.

You know, I just came across a Tweet where someone admitted that, had Nintendo either announced Detective Club 4 at last month's Nintendo Direct OR simply outright 'shadow-announced' Detective Club 4 anytime between now and last week (when the 'Emio' teaser was first shown off), they most likely wouldn't have given a rat's tail about the game.
Like, they'd be happy for anyone who wanted a new Detective Club, but that'd be about it. They admit that the 'Emio' teaser definitely did a LOT of heavy lifting in order to get them interested in looking at the game, so... yeah.

In the event that Nintendo plans to revive any more of their dormant IPs? I don't know, I think THIS might be the way to go about drumming up interest going forward.

For the record, I've even seen some folks bring up the sentiment that part of why the Detective Club remakes didn't get too much buzz was because it was sandwiched in the Direct that (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here) happened to announce:

• When exactly Banjo and Kazooie would be added to Smash Ultimate
• That Terry Bogard was coming to Smash Ultimate at all
• That Smash Ultimate was getting a 2nd season of DLC.

Ooooh, yeah... the Detective Club remakes (almost hilariously) didn't stand a ghost of a chance against such hype announcements (SOME pun intended).


For that matter, there's legit a part of me that's wondering if maybe, in regards to Nintendo's dormant IPs (Wave Race, 1080, Pilotwings, Style Savvy, Custom Robo, Chibi-Robo, etc.), perhaps Nintendo just... SHOULDN'T use Directs anymore to announce them, given how it's fairly likely that the fact that said series getting revived at all will probably just end up overshadowed by bigger stuff.

 

[SharkLord]

Question, are the other FDC games horror adjacent?

If I remember correctly, the main FDC games were murder mysteries. I don't think there was much blood or gore involved, but you do investigate the victim's corpses, and that alone is pretty grisly

 

[ninjahmos]

You know who I think would make a good Ubisoft rep for Smash? The Prince from Prince of Persia. They could base his moveset off of the Sands of Time trilogy, and use music from those games. They could even get Yuri Lowenthal to voice him.

Would I wanna see him get in before Rayman? Probably not, but I still think he'd be an interesting choice.

 

[Diddy Kong]

They should add Toad, but then also add three more Fire Emblem characters specifically the three characters that are currently assist trophies

Dimitri
Lyn
Sigurd

LETS GO!

 

[Oracle Link]

As someone who absolutely ADORES both Kirby AND the Waddle Dee species as a whole, it's nice to see them depicted more as (best) friends than enemies. From what I've heard, they've always been depicted as that in Japan/Asia as a whole, while (most of) the rest of the world simply looks at Waddle Dee as the 'Goomba' of Kirby.

In terms of Dedede and Meta Knight, I think part of why they don't get as much as Kirby and Waddle Dee is because Dedede has a more 'complicated' design (I mean, Kirby and Waddle Dee are literally just gorbs (good orbs) and Meta Knight's 'darkness' might serve as... a bit of an impediment?

I think the main reason both get so many merch is because both are the most simple kirby designs!
If you ever drew Dedede or meta knight you know how much more complex even a simplified version of them is!
And a lot of the Kirby + Waddle dee merch is either
1. them being contorted into weird shapes (For example boxes)
or 2. tham doing something cute!
Both things wouldn't really fit dedede and metaknight!
And actually Dedede and meta knight have tons of stuff too!

Also TBH i would like Toy Link and this:

Octorok design being used for some wacky merch! (for example Rubber "ducks" That are not ducks)
Or House shoes or something like that! Especially that octorok design is perfect for merch!

 

[DarthEnderX]

Gimmick 4 Smorsh?

You know who I think would make a good Ubisoft rep for Smash? The Prince from Prince of Persia.

I agree. I think Ubisoft would much rather have an AC rep. But I think PoP is a much better choice.

Lost Crown especially provides a ton of inspiration for Smash movesets.

 

[Gengar84]

Gimmick 4 Smorsh?

I agree. I think Ubisoft would much rather have an AC rep. But I think PoP is a much better choice.

Lost Crown especially provides a ton of inspiration for Smash movesets.

Gimmick reminds me of a cross between Bub and Kirby.

As for Prince of Persia, is there any specific design you’d like to see them go with for Smash? He’s looked so different between games it’s hard to go with just one definitive appearance. I wonder if they could take the Hero approach and just include all of them as alts. That still leaves the question of which design would be primary though.

 

[Sucumbio]

Quick thought experiment....
Some AT are ok to fight...like there's some room to actually engage them and even beat them. Others not so much.
Case in point Zelda's Ghirahim which I just fought his attacks are like crazy exaggerated knock back and that's cool cause it's an AT but as a fighter we'd be like no ... So this is the thought, does this help predict which ATs they have given some extra consideration in terms of making them playable? I don't really remember Little Mac as an AT versus now but I don't think it's all too different? Dark Samus again did she even do anything other than a charge shot final smash clone thing, I really don't remember lol but anyway I realize this is highly unlikely but if we assume it's true that leads to

Which ATs in Ultimate could be likelier upgrades based on their moves' "fairness" or whatever?

I think Gha..GEE-rah-HEAM is how I say it he's still a fish dude and his name sucks cause I had to copy paste it anyway he's out by this exercise bc yeah 3 dash attacks KOd me from 10 percent ><

 

[DarthEnderX]

Gimmick reminds me of a cross between Bub and Kirby.

He looks like an out-of-shape Starfy.

As for Prince of Persia, is there any specific design you’d like to see them go with for Smash?

I'm partial to the Sands of Time design, and the Lost Crown moveset.

 

[Louie G.]

Yeah this kind of game I don't think would get a rep added to a Smash project plan without them knowing how well it did in advance. And yeah, for a series of this size even a new game is not any guarantee of a Smash PC.
However, for fans of FDC and Ayumi the hope would be that this game does well and potentially even leads to more from the series, especially given that it's presumably not too taxing to develop and doesn't carry too high a bar to be considered a success.

I'll play devil's advocate for a minute and suggest maybe Nintendo would give Sakurai a heads up that they plan on doing more with the series, and that it has a future. I don't know if there's any concrete word on how well the remakes did, but if those did decently enough / gave Nintendo enough confidence (enough to get a sequel and this unique marketing push, at least) and helped to ease Sakurai's concerns about FDC's lack of western presence... if he still has any interest in pursuing the idea, I suppose there's an opportunity here.

I'd probably say Ayumi is comparable to the likes of Ness or Shulk in initial scale. FDC kind of hinges on Sakurai particularly liking the series and wanting to give it those flowers on his own terms, less so because the games are massively popular. Xenoblade got a character after only one game, and while the campaign to get it localized was strong it was never exactly a blockbuster release. I'm going to assume the FDC remakes on Switch and the initial Wii release of Xenoblade Chronicles could have put up similar numbers. Hard to gauge with digital sales playing a role these days.

Although I'm going to assume that like Little Mac, if Ayumi joined Smash she may be treated with a bit more "retro" flair despite her series revival. Which is why I personally don't think a lot hinges on this new game as far as moveset / content potential, past precedent would have me believe Sakurai is more inclined to be pulling from the older titles anyway. But knowing the series now has some worldwide presence and has seen some moderate contemporary success could be the justification needed to go for it. Bottom line is while I'm not fully convinced on her, it's always possible Sakurai was vaguely aware of the plans to continue the series, and would still be interested in exploring Ayumi as a retro pull.

 

[Shinuto]

I want to beat up that jerk Kirby with a schoolgirl, he's had it too good for too long.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Quick thought experiment....
Some AT are ok to fight...like there's some room to actually engage them and even beat them. Others not so much.
Case in point Zelda's Ghirahim which I just fought his attacks are like crazy exaggerated knock back and that's cool cause it's an AT but as a fighter we'd be like no ... So this is the thought, does this help predict which ATs they have given some extra consideration in terms of making them playable? I don't really remember Little Mac as an AT versus now but I don't think it's all too different? Dark Samus again did she even do anything other than a charge shot final smash clone thing, I really don't remember lol but anyway I realize this is highly unlikely but if we assume it's true that leads to

Which ATs in Ultimate could be likelier upgrades based on their moves' "fairness" or whatever?

I think Gha..GEE-rah-HEAM is how I say it he's still a fish dude and his name sucks cause I had to copy paste it anyway he's out by this exercise bc yeah 3 dash attacks KOd me from 10 percent ><

Am hoping Isaac so far. Isaac had some detail to him and his Move(s) too. Also he had a Mii costume, music, lots of spirits. I really hope for him to be there.

I think the many Zelda ATs are basically an answer to the demand of them being playable, but them not really being feasible due to their status as "one shots". Ghirahim, Midna and Skull Kid are very popular requests, but only have one solid title on their name. Skull Kid had appearances in Ocarina and Twilight, sure, but we all know Majora's Mask was his actual time in the spotlight.

Sometimes it's not the role prior to the playable fighter role, sometimes a character is just hugely popular. Can't really say Charizard stood out as a Pokeball summon in Melee, yet he made it in eventually, cause it's Charizard. Think that's a better way of looking at things.

Kinda remember the Little Mac AT had a dash similar to his eventual dash though.

 

[fogbadge]

I want to beat up that jerk Kirby with a schoolgirl, he's had it too good for too long.

try one of inkling’s alts

 

[Shinuto]

try one of inkling’s alts

Not a real schoolgirl or Japanese....or human!

 

[Sucumbio]

I want to beat up that jerk Kirby with a schoolgirl, he's had it too good for too long.

;

Am hoping Isaac so far. Isaac had some detail to him and his Move(s) too. Also he had a Mii costume, music, lots of spirits. I really hope for him to be there.

I think the many Zelda ATs are basically an answer to the demand of them being playable, but them not really being feasible due to their status as "one shots". Ghirahim, Midna and Skull Kid are very popular requests, but only have one solid title on their name. Skull Kid had appearances in Ocarina and Twilight, sure, but we all know Majora's Mask was his actual time in the spotlight.

Sometimes it's not the role prior to the playable fighter role, sometimes a character is just hugely popular. Can't really say Charizard stood out as a Pokeball summon in Melee, yet he made it in eventually, cause it's Charizard. Think that's a better way of looking at things.

Kinda remember the Little Mac AT had a dash similar to his eventual dash though.

Issac would be great.

Yeah AT "hell" is real I guess but I want to believe fan demand especially if it's solidified could push something but I think Zelda has another "issue" as it's been repped as a tie in to whatever Zelda is doing, yet another gatekept game by Miyamoto IMHO but of course I have no proof just my brain worms.

 

[fogbadge]

Not a real schoolgirl or Japanese....or human!

picky picky picky

 

[DKing]

I don't know why Saki Amamiya didn't make it as an assist trophy.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Some AT are ok to fight...like there's some room to actually engage them and even beat them. Others not so much.
Case in point Zelda's Ghirahim which I just fought his attacks are like crazy exaggerated knock back and that's cool cause it's an AT but as a fighter we'd be like no ... So this is the thought, does this help predict which ATs they have given some extra consideration in terms of making them playable?

No.

I don't really remember Little Mac as an AT versus now but I don't think it's all too different?

At a cursory glance, his forward tilt was present back then, his dash animation was similar, and his jump height was similarly garbo, but he's also based off of real boxing in both iterations, so I'm not sure if the similarities wouldn't have been there regardless of what they did.

Dark Samus again did she even do anything other than a charge shot final smash clone thing, I really don't remember lol but anyway I realize this is highly unlikely but if we assume it's true that leads to

She shot tracking balls of energy, peppered you with plasma shots, and this ground spike thing when you got close. None of these moves made it in to SSBU.

 

[Louie G.]

Yeah AT "hell" is real I guess but I want to believe fan demand especially if it's solidified could push something but I think Zelda has another "issue" as it's been repped as a tie in to whatever Zelda is doing, yet another gatekept game by Miyamoto IMHO but of course I have no proof just my brain worms.

I think "AT hell" is real in the sense that it is a visual representation of that character being in a stagnant place. Sakurai hasn't given them any further consideration and/or whatever momentum they had wasn't enough at the time. If they weren't ATs they wouldn't be anything. But less so if people are saying that in reference to their role as an AT contributing to their lack of promotion. I don't think Sakurai cares much about that.

For someone like Waluigi or the Zelda characters, or Isaac, we may have seen enough forward movement in these campaigns or knocked off enough of the higher fan requests for them to be under reconsideration. I also have to imagine ATs added in Smash Ultimate, like Krystal or the readdition of Isaac, are emblematic of some fan demand but a lack of feasible implementation because of the limited roster space. To answer your question I don't exactly think the more capable of a fighter an AT is the more likely they are to make the jump, but I do think it's telling that a character like Isaac returned with such a fleshed out new take on the concept. You can at least pin down some of the ones the team felt more inspired about.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Which ATs in Ultimate could be likelier upgrades based on their moves' "fairness" or whatever?

I wouldn't say "fairness" so much as that Zero already feels like he's meant to be a diet fighter. He already has a potential neutral, side and up special as well as a jab and neutral air, and by this point all the other sword animations he'd need for the rest of his moveset would've already been made.

 

[Sucumbio]

I wouldn't say "fairness" so much as that Zero already feels like he's meant to be a diet fighter. He already has a potential neutral, side and up special as well as a jab and neutral air, and by this point all the other sword animations he'd need for the rest of his moveset would've already been made.

I feel this way about Knuckles like his homing attack is slower and shorter range and he has a nifty ground move and he's more a cqc with his jabs

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think "AT hell" is real in the sense that it is a visual representation of that character being in a stagnant place. Sakurai hasn't given them any further consideration and/or whatever momentum they had wasn't enough at the time. If they weren't ATs they wouldn't be anything. But less so if people are saying that in reference to their role as an AT contributing to their lack of promotion. I don't think Sakurai cares much about that.

Perhaps this is why Saki is gone. There wasn't really a reason to remove her since she was in the last game, but if some or all of them needed a bit of an update so that they don't fall off the new stages too easily, and she wasn't gaining any traction, then they could have just decided to drop it. Probably the only explanation that isn't arbitrary (though to be fair, it could actually just be that they decided not to).

As for the other ones that have been in the previous two games, but not Ultimate, I'd imagine Lakitu and Spinies, Infantry and Tanks, and Kat & Anna were removed due to the new Assist Trophy mechanics. You'd have to do more spritework for the the former two, and the ability to hit them would make them kinda worthless anyway (don't need 3 Starfys). Kat & Anna would be pretty ridiculous if you tried to hit them since they're so fast, and they would probably instantly die if a Smart Bomb went off or something since they span the screen.

As for Tingle...I dunno. Maybe it's so that he's not confused with the stage hazard that has at least the balloon part?
EDIT: To be clear, I know that Assist Trophies turn off by stage, but having the character be inactive on Great Bay, but also do something similar as a stage hazard could be a concern, though I don't really know by how much.

 

[Speed Weed]

Perhaps this is why Saki is gone. There wasn't really a reason to remove her since she was in the last game, but if some or all of them needed a bit of an update so that they don't fall off the new stages too easily, and she wasn't gaining any traction, then they could have just decided to drop it. Probably the only explanation that isn't arbitrary (though to be fair, it could actually just be that they decided not to).

As for the other ones that have been in the previous two games, but not Ultimate, I'd imagine Lakitu and Spinies, Infantry and Tanks, and Kat & Anna were removed due to the new Assist Trophy mechanics. You'd have to do more spritework for the the former two, and the ability to hit them would make them kinda worthless anyway (don't need 3 Starfys). Kat & Anna would be pretty ridiculous if you tried to hit them since they're so fast, and they would probably instantly die if a Smart Bomb went off or something since they span the screen.

As for Tingle...I dunno. Maybe it's so that he's not confused with the stage hazard that has at least the balloon part?
EDIT: To be clear, I know that Assist Trophies turn off by stage, but having the character be inactive on Great Bay, but also do something similar as a stage hazard could be a concern, though I don't really know by how much.

Saki's a guy

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Saki's a guy

Yeah I know. Did I call him a girl?

re-reads post

Yeah I did. Consistently. Why did I do that?

 

[Louie G.]

Perhaps this is why Saki is gone.

This might be more believable if a bunch of dead / dormant series, including Sin & Punishment (and Custom Robo, and even Daigasso Band Brothers), didn't get Mii Costumes in Ultimate. Kind of baffling really, at that point I'm uncertain why Saki had to get cut loose if they were just going to represent him in another way.

I do think something of a lack of activity is what did him in, and I assume this is what initially made Isaac a presumed lower priority in Smash 4? But there are so many ATs and other supplemental content that seem to contradict this really playing a factor. Kind of just have to pick and choose to make it fit a narrative.