Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah I did. Consistently. Why did I do that?

Because you probably don't remember his voice. He may look like a girl but he sure doesn't sound like one.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What characters would you expect to see as Assist Trophies in the next game?

Personally, my vote goes for Toy-Con Robot, because even if it doesn't get a character, I'm expecting Nintendo LABO to get something. Even if it does get a character I kind of expect this one to pop up alongside it unless it itself is the new character.

 

[Louie G.]

What characters would you expect to see as Assist Trophies in the next game?

If they're not playable, I see some of the new supporting characters like Rauru or especially Oatchi being good AT potential. Same goes for some B or C-list series that got some play last generation like Officer Howard or maybe Ayumi. Any of these characters could end up being playable as well, but I would just count on them having some significant role one way or another. Assuming Ring Fit gets the full scope of representation Dragaux is probably the move here.

One AT addition that I think would be smart is a "modern" Kirby character. Magolor would be pretty perfect for this role, and he's seen a resurgence of prominence with RTDL Deluxe so he may as well be on their minds once again. Acknowledging these characters exist at all would probably be a substantial step forward in "fixing" Kirby representation in Smash without even needing to go the extra mile with another playable character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Magolor would be pretty perfect for this role, and he's seen a resurgence of prominence with RTDL Deluxe so he may as well be on their minds once again.

Oooooh Magolor could be a ton of fun. He could join Rathelos as a boss style assist. Actually, he'd probably be even better than Rathelos since he can fly and wouldn't take up the entire stage.

Ignoring all of that, the visual of you summoning him, and then he immediately proceeds to put on the Master Crown is kind of cool.

 

[AreJay25]

What characters would you expect to see as Assist Trophies in the next game?

Personally, my vote goes for Toy-Con Robot, because even if it doesn't get a character, I'm expecting Nintendo LABO to get something. Even if it does get a character I kind of expect this one to pop up alongside it unless it itself is the new character.

Arthur seems like the perfect choice for a "random third party Assist Trophy" ala Bomberman/Akira. Helps that Akira got a Mii costume in Smash 4 and became an AT in Ultimate, I could see something similar happening with Arthur.

 

[Perkilator]

One AT addition that I think would be smart is a "modern" Kirby character. Magolor would be pretty perfect for this role, and he's seen a resurgence of prominence with RTDL Deluxe so he may as well be on their minds once again. Acknowledging these characters exist at all would probably be a substantial step forward in "fixing" Kirby representation in Smash without even needing to go the extra mile with another playable character.

While I'd prefer him as a playable character alongside BWD, I'd at least be happy with this.

 

[Louie G.]

While I'd prefer him as a playable character alongside BWD, I'd at least be happy with this.

I'd like a new playable character too, but if they give Kirby something like Zelda's AT treatment and throw in like... Adeleine and Magolor, and then add a Forgotten Land stage with a couple new arrangements, all is forgiven in my book. I'm not a huge stickler about Kirby representation (even though it's my favorite series) but it is starting to get a bit egregious, fortunately I have to doubt Forgotten Land can be ignored if we're getting a normal batch of like 20 new stages.

 

[DKing]

Perhaps this is why Saki is gone.

The mii costume of saki is in ultimate but with no music from sin and punishment compared to Isaac with golden sun music.

 

[Wonder Smash]

You know who I think would make a good Ubisoft rep for Smash? The Prince from Prince of Persia. They could base his moveset off of the Sands of Time trilogy, and use music from those games. They could even get Yuri Lowenthal to voice him.

Would I wanna see him get in before Rayman? Probably not, but I still think he'd be an interesting choice.

I've thought about Prince of Persia myself. Sure, why not? Prince would definitely be an interesting character.

As for Prince of Persia, is there any specific design you’d like to see them go with for Smash? He’s looked so different between games it’s hard to go with just one definitive appearance. I wonder if they could take the Hero approach and just include all of them as alts. That still leaves the question of which design would be primary though.

I'm guessing Sands of Time, due to its huge popularity and putting the series back into the spotlight.

 

[RileyXY1]

Arthur seems like the perfect choice for a "random third party Assist Trophy" ala Bomberman/Akira. Helps that Akira got a Mii costume in Smash 4 and became an AT in Ultimate, I could see something similar happening with Arthur.

I'm also expecting the same for the Doom Slayer.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I'm also expecting the same for the Doom Slayer.

Sounds more like you're hoping for that, rather than expecting that.

 

[ninjahmos]

It'd probably never happen, but Saki would actually be pretty fun to play as in Smash.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'd like a new playable character too, but if they give Kirby something like Zelda's AT treatment and throw in like... Adeleine and Magolor, and then add a Forgotten Land stage with a couple new arrangements, all is forgiven in my book. I'm not a huge stickler about Kirby representation (even though it's my favorite series) but it is starting to get a bit egregious, fortunately I have to doubt Forgotten Land can be ignored if we're getting a normal batch of like 20 new stages.

Would also feel the same way, especially if we actually get a modern Kirby stage. I have hope that Forgotten Land will get something since it's now the best selling Kirby game, but really I just want a stage from a game post-Super Star, since Kirby's stages are still stuck on the SNES so far lol

 

[ninjahmos]

You know who I think would make a good Ubisoft rep for Smash? The Prince from Prince of Persia. They could base his moveset off of the Sands of Time trilogy, and use music from those games.

In fact, why not use all three Prince designs from those games, since we were asking what design they'd use?

 

[Wonder Smash]

Heh! Prince of Persia gets brought up in this topic and then all of a sudden, a brand new playthrough of the NES Prince of Persia gets uploaded today by one of my favorite Youtube Channels:

 

[Diddy Kong]

;



Issac would be great.

Yeah AT "hell" is real I guess but I want to believe fan demand especially if it's solidified could push something but I think Zelda has another "issue" as it's been repped as a tie in to whatever Zelda is doing, yet another gatekept game by Miyamoto IMHO but of course I have no proof just my brain worms.

Isaac would be more than amazing. Golden Sun will forever remain a fan favorite, and with all the remakes out I still got a little hope for a trilogy remake at some point.

Zelda is in such a spot that it honestly would be extremely weird nothing happened. We can't continue with this roster exactly. It's fair represented by the amount of characters, but not by their quality. Breath of the Wild sold better than any other Zelda ever, or at least a ton more than usual. Tears of the Kingdom did well too. It would be weird carrying forward with a roster like this. Ganondorf and Zelda need moveset revamps, Link maybe too, but I can't picture them not having a newcomer.

And no other but Impa really comes to mind. There's simply a lot of roles she could fit, in whatever situation is needed. She's the only pick I feel is warranted for the long run.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

fortunately I have to doubt Forgotten Land can be ignored if we're getting a normal batch of like 20 new stages.

"Best I can do is bringing back Great Cave Offensive and Dream Land Game Boy"

 

[SPEN18]

maybe Nintendo would give Sakurai a heads up that they plan on doing more with the series, and that it has a future. I don't know if there's any concrete word on how well the remakes did, but if those did decently enough / gave Nintendo enough confidence (enough to get a sequel and this unique marketing push, at least) and helped to ease Sakurai's concerns about FDC's lack of western presence... if he still has any interest in pursuing the idea, I suppose there's an opportunity here.

It isn't exactly clear what inside info/plans Sakurai gets privy to, so it's possible, but out of all the things to give him the tip for this one seems among the less likely. And again, even if he did know about it well before the reveal, an IP of this size would still not be a guarantee for a PC.
Having more of a Western presence now is an important factor, though, I'd agree.

I'd probably say Ayumi is comparable to the likes of Ness or Shulk in initial scale. FDC kind of hinges on Sakurai particularly liking the series and wanting to give it those flowers on his own terms, less so because the games are massively popular. Xenoblade got a character after only one game, and while the campaign to get it localized was strong it was never exactly a blockbuster release. I'm going to assume the FDC remakes on Switch and the initial Wii release of Xenoblade Chronicles could have put up similar numbers. Hard to gauge with digital sales playing a role these days.

That's fair. Though of course that comparison is stronger in showing merely that series of this magnitude are possible, and weaker in trying to prove them likely.

Although I'm going to assume that like Little Mac, if Ayumi joined Smash she may be treated with a bit more "retro" flair despite her series revival. Which is why I personally don't think a lot hinges on this new game as far as moveset / content potential, past precedent would have me believe Sakurai is more inclined to be pulling from the older titles anyway. But knowing the series now has some worldwide presence and has seen some moderate contemporary success could be the justification needed to go for it. Bottom line is while I'm not fully convinced on her, it's always possible Sakurai was vaguely aware of the plans to continue the series, and would still be interested in exploring Ayumi as a retro pull.

Yeah I think if Ayumi got in then she would draw from across her series, and I don't think there would be any issue pulling enough moves together.

And to reiterate, a lot of the argument for Ayumi was always predicated in part on Sakurai showing a particular interest in her; by nature that aspect gives me some pause, because we have no indication of just how serious that interest might be or might have been.

--

As for my personal feelings on it, I'm open to it. I do think Ayumi would be a very fun moveset to pull together. Generally, my stance on FDC has been that there are several other unrepped franchises with meatier resumes who I'd rather see first. However, with this new game, I could see it moving up my list, but I'll reevaluate when it comes out.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Whenever I think about Girahim's hypothetical inclusion, I always get a feeling that the Smash fanbase as a whole would hate him, or at least be very annoyed with him. The source material there is a very reactive boss who's MO is to guard your strikes, and counter them in kind. He also likes to summon knives to block attacks, or throw at you. He doesn't, not go on offense so you can't just stand there and do nothing, but the focus is placed on trying to attack him without getting countered. Basically what I'm picturing is something like Anji Mito, but a projectile zoner, which would definitely be an interesting, and unique addition to the game, but I doubt it would be very popular in practice.

Also it's possible that this character would get Dead Man's Volley instead of Ganondorf, which would be super funny, but certainly wouldn't help his popularity. lol

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If I remember correctly, the main FDC games were murder mysteries. I don't think there was much blood or gore involved, but you do investigate the victim's corpses, and that alone is pretty grisly

At the first of spoiling the series the first game gets pretty gruesome, maybe not to the level of a horror game but...

Most of the games cast dies by the end, every potential suspect the heroes find during the investigation gets killed off in gruesome ways until there's only very little people left.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Perhaps this is why Saki is gone. There wasn't really a reason to remove her since she was in the last game, but if some or all of them needed a bit of an update so that they don't fall off the new stages too easily, and she wasn't gaining any traction, then they could have just decided to drop it. Probably the only explanation that isn't arbitrary (though to be fair, it could actually just be that they decided not to).

As for the other ones that have been in the previous two games, but not Ultimate, I'd imagine Lakitu and Spinies, Infantry and Tanks, and Kat & Anna were removed due to the new Assist Trophy mechanics. You'd have to do more spritework for the the former two, and the ability to hit them would make them kinda worthless anyway (don't need 3 Starfys). Kat & Anna would be pretty ridiculous if you tried to hit them since they're so fast, and they would probably instantly die if a Smart Bomb went off or something since they span the screen.

As for Tingle...I dunno. Maybe it's so that he's not confused with the stage hazard that has at least the balloon part?
EDIT: To be clear, I know that Assist Trophies turn off by stage, but having the character be inactive on Great Bay, but also do something similar as a stage hazard could be a concern, though I don't really know by how much.

Straight up,

the devs just could have, not brought them back cause budget and dev time reasons.
Not every at needs to comeback and I really doubt there’s some conspirators reason behind it.

also some assist trophies are impervious to attacks, so that wasn’t a reason not to include them.

 

[Louie G.]

It isn't exactly clear what inside info/plans Sakurai gets privy to, so it's possible, but out of all the things to give him the tip for this one seems among the less likely. And again, even if he did know about it well before the reveal, an IP of this size would still not be a guarantee for a PC.
Having more of a Western presence now is an important factor, though, I'd agree.

Yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of if Sakurai was already toying with the idea, maybe his confidence rose a bit due to the recent release of the FDC remakes or whatever, and Nintendo was like "hey by the way we're actually making a new game too if that helps you decide". It's circumstantial but under those pretenses I'm sure they would let him know and that would likely boost his confidence in the decision. Who knows if it would get to that point.

That's fair. Though of course that comparison is stronger in showing merely that series of this magnitude are possible, and weaker in trying to prove them likely.

For sure, and that's mostly why I brought it up. Because additional pieces are already there - Sakurai was, at least at one point, interested in adding Ayumi and the series is present in the public eye once again - so if the stars have aligned then most forseeable barriers are lifted. Particularly if one of those hangups was the inaccessibility overseas, which was cited as the sticking point originally. If Sakurai is still interested in the first place, which is already a big maybe... that was over 20 years ago. But I'm challenging myself on this because I feel like I underestimated how much this series is valued.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, how likely do you think it is that Pikmin gets a new character? Or is Olimar/Alph all we'll ever get?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So, how likely do you think it is that Pikmin gets a new character? Or is Olimar/Alph all we'll ever get?

I think Oatchi is fairly likely, as the Pikmin series seems to be getting more love recently. If not Oatchi, then maybe they'll be incentivized to finally separate Olimar and Alph into Echo Fighters.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

So, how likely do you think it is that Pikmin gets a new character? Or is Olimar/Alph all we'll ever get?

I feel like Recruit (the default one from the marketing) and Oatchi could work well for a new character, since the problem I feel like most Pikmin characters have had before like Louie and a unique Alph is that most captains feel pretty similar from one game to another, but Oatchi opens up a lot of possibilities for a different moveset, plus updating their Pikmin types with Rock, Ice, and Glow Pikmin potentially helping that along. Plus with how Sakurai handles moveset updates, I doubt all that would be applied to Olimar.

As for likelihood, I'd like to think Pikmin 4's big success (compared to the series pre-Switch rereleases anyway) would make it at least somewhat likely?

 

[fogbadge]

So, how likely do you think it is that Pikmin gets a new character? Or is Olimar/Alph all we'll ever get?

I feel I should say you never know but my gut says we ain’t getting anything

 

[Louie G.]

So, how likely do you think it is that Pikmin gets a new character? Or is Olimar/Alph all we'll ever get?

I'm progressively more confident. Pikmin 4 has been a big game for Nintendo, and the greatest success Pikmin has seen thus far. And arguably, its release lines up neatly with when we speculate the project plan may have been drafted. Pikmin as a series / brand has had a massive surge in visibility and synonymy with Nintendo's image. In particular, Oatchi is a character who has seen a great deal of attention propelled onto him as a secondary mascot. I've mentioned it before, but I literally see him on juice pouches.

And the further the series develops, the more mechanics and Pikmin types are created that Olimar likely can't sustain himself. Seeing that Oatchi can function as a commander in his own right makes him a viable option to represent these new ideas as well as having a pretty fresh, unique body structure and by extension fighting style. Or alternatively, in a less likely but IMO possible scenario, Rookie or Shepherd take a commander role and can use Oatchi as a summon or a mount. I think Olimar's playstyle is kind of stylized in a way that makes it difficult to imagine interpreting it in much of a different way, so I can see a scenario where a second commander-type character is passed on, but there are probably more intuitive ways Pikmin can function.

I think something that goes a bit underspoken is the way a new Smash may want to build up some of the later series additions to the heights that some of the old guard has been able to sustain up to this point. Pretty much the only reason Animal Crossing, Pikmin and now Splatoon trail behind at this point is because they got a late start. With all of these three series being treated as major Nintendo brands as of late, I think they're the ones to watch outside of the obligatory Mario and Pokemon.

So anyway, what I'm saying is... let me play as a Bulborb please.

 

[SPEN18]

So, how likely do you think it is that Pikmin gets a new character? Or is Olimar/Alph all we'll ever get?

I think it's more likely than a lot of others might think. Miyamoto seems heavily invested in Pikmin and the series is arguably at its highest point ever. Though I hope they make a fully unique Oatchi rather than just give us another captain as a clone character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I feel like Recruit (the default one from the marketing) and Oatchi could work well for a new character, since the problem I feel like most Pikmin characters have had before like Louie and a unique Alph is that most captains feel pretty similar from one game to another, but Oatchi opens up a lot of possibilities for a different moveset, plus updating their Pikmin types with Rock, Ice, and Glow Pikmin potentially helping that along. Plus with how Sakurai handles moveset updates, I doubt all that would be applied to Olimar.

As for likelihood, I'd like to think Pikmin 4's big success (compared to the series pre-Switch rereleases anyway) would make it at least somewhat likely?

You think they'd be added together? He kinda is like a playable Pikmin so he could be handled that way I suppose.

Imagines the Rookie swinging Oatchi by the tail

OK maybe not quite like that, but I could see Pikmin Throw being replaced by Rush. It could be a chargeable attack that is just a tackle initially, but at full charge has all the Pikmin latch on to the first character they hit. Or it could be their Smash Attack or something I dunno.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

You think they'd be added together? He kinda is like a playable Pikmin so he could be handled that way I suppose.

Imagines the Rookie swinging Oatchi by the tail

OK maybe not quite like that, but I could see Pikmin Throw being replaced by Rush. It could be a chargeable attack that is just a tackle initially, but at full charge has all the Pikmin latch on to the first character they hit. Or it could be their Smash Attack or something I dunno.

I do think solo Oatchi is possible since he functions fine as a captain on his own, I just think solo Oatchi would be a little weird considering the group dynamic in Pikmin 4 and all of his skills coming from training with Shepherd while being entrusted to the player. I'd probably make Oatchi more of a mount though, and more integral to the character as a whole than just a summon, so Oatchi would essentially be the main character anyway lol

I also just think it'd be really fun to make a Leafling riding on top of Moss as an alt

Plus if you do Recruit, the default could be the one from all the marketing, and then they could do an Inkling sort of thing where each color has a different Recruit riding Oatchi, since they're pretty customizable in Pikmin 4, which I also think would be fun for alternate colors.

 

[NintenRob]

People always talk about Ayumi when it comes to Smash Bros, and obviously for good reason. Sakurai mentioned her, and she's the one who had a trophy in Melee.

But I have a question, what about the bloke who is always standing in front of her on the games boxart? Who is he? It always throws me off when Ayumi isn't the one front and centre

 

[fogbadge]

People always talk about Ayumi when it comes to Smash Bros, and obviously for good reason. Sakurai mentioned her, and she's the one who had a trophy in Melee.

But I have a question, what about the bloke who is always standing in front of her on the games boxart? Who is he? It always throws me off when Ayumi isn't the one front and centre

thats the protagonist, the player character, Ayumi is a supporting character in the first game but has a much larger role in the second. his name is Taro

 

[Laniv]

So, how likely do you think it is that Pikmin gets a new character? Or is Olimar/Alph all we'll ever get?

Likelier than people think. People point to the recruit or Oatchi, but I just wanna say I think a Bulborb would be funny

I think back in the Smash 4 days someone here made a moveset for the Plasm Wraith? Might be wrong on that

And I will say again that Alph got robbed

 

[Hadokeyblade]

People always talk about Ayumi when it comes to Smash Bros, and obviously for good reason. Sakurai mentioned her, and she's the one who had a trophy in Melee.

But I have a question, what about the bloke who is always standing in front of her on the games boxart? Who is he? It always throws me off when Ayumi isn't the one front and centre

He's the player character.

I'm... not actually sure if he has a name since you can name him anything you want.

That's probably why Sakurai's mind went to Ayumi first.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

He's the player character.

I'm... not actually sure if he has a name since you can name him anything you want.

That's probably why Sakurai's mind went to Ayumi first.

I've seen that he has a semi-official name from promotional material, which is apparently Taro Ninten? Which is a hilarious name to me because if I had a nickel for every time Nintendo named an NES-era character Ninten, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Ayumi is basically the assistant character in the series.

Think of characters like Maya Fey, Susato Mikotoba and Luke Triton and she's in that same box.

 

[Will]

What characters would you expect to see as Assist Trophies in the next game?

Lord Crump

 

[DarthEnderX]

I want to beat up that jerk Kirby with a schoolgirl, he's had it too good for too long.

You shouldn't swing schoolgirls at people.

 

[Shinuto]

It feels insane that it doesnt FEEL like a reach anymore to actually discuss Ayumi's chances for Smash currently. Ive always wanted to see her get in when I found out she was considered for Melee. It just seems like a fun unique character pick.

 

[HyperSomari64]

The Famicom 40th Anniversary page has updated a while ago. They added the 1993-94 Nintendo Games

任天堂ソフト一覧 | ファミコン40周年キャンペーンサイト | 任天堂

任天堂から発売したファミリーコンピュータ／ディスクシステムのソフト一覧です。

www.nintendo.com

If they continue with this, there are two options:

1. Making a list for 3rd Party games
2. Making a list for American/western games (To the Earth, GumShoe, StarTropics)

Both aren't probable, but i'm sure they have finish it.